Troubled By Pack Dogs or Wolves(?)


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*Kemosabe*
February 5, 2014, 12:28 PM
I live in a semi-rural area that is on the outskirts of a small town. Most houses in our "development" are on at least 5 acres and many are in excess of that. Our house is on 18 acres that is mostly wooded and there is considerable wildlife. Last week there were 7 deer scavaging under our bird feeders.

Three years ago the neighborhood trash cans were being knocked over and rummaged through by pack dogs. One day back then I saw 4 large mangy dogs, none with collars, rummaging through our trash and I yelled at them to frighten them off. They turned toward me and proceeded to stalk me -- I was unarmed. I hauled ass and because of my new-found weight it took me two trips to get back into the house. :D:D:D

After that I never went into my yard without a gun and subsequently over the next three months I killed 5 dogs, none with collars and all were in packs of 3 or more. Two of my neighbors advised they had done the same thing -- problem solved... until now.

Tonight at 12:30AM I saw 8 canines frantically searching in my backyard. I say canines because I'm not sure what they were. At first I thought they were wolves because they were all the same size, large and stocky, and the same shape -- like wolves. They were all gray except for one that was all black... and that one gave me doubt that they were wolves. They were way to big to be coyotes.

Bottom line: Unless I was carrying my 12 gauge loaded with 6 rounds of #4 buck and my Colt Combat Commander I would have felt under gunned. Now I'm worried for the safety of my wife and myself should the pack show up again.

I was thinking about setting up my alerting motion detector (Harbor Freight Driveway Alert) and baiting them, then shooting them as I did the pack dogs.

How would you resolve this situation?

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bainter1212
February 5, 2014, 12:33 PM
Might be wolves. Plenty of black wolves, they aren't all gray.

MistWolf
February 5, 2014, 12:34 PM
I'd contact your Dept. of Game & Fish and ask them what the policy is about wolves.

Wolves & coyotes generally won't attack humans unprovoked. Feral dogs will.

Look into dog repellants. Not that they are guaranteed to work but they might reduce the frequency of unwanted canine visits and pack size

silicosys4
February 5, 2014, 12:39 PM
Doubtful they were wolves, more likely dogs that were a few generations into being feral. I would just take care of them same as you did before. Try to shoot the pack leader first. I would load up something like an sks if I were going to cull, faster and more precise.

Bubbles
February 5, 2014, 12:54 PM
Bait, sit on roof, .300 Whisper suppressed w/ NV scope
Shovel
Shut Up

We also get dogs dumped in the area, either people think that they'll learn to fend for themselves or someone will take them in. The larger ones form packs, run deer and livestock, etc. The smaller dogs and dumped cats usually fally prey to the coyotes.

Cee Zee
February 5, 2014, 12:55 PM
If you can safely fire a centerfire rifle in your neighborhood I'd definitely go that route. An SKS would be great. So would an AK. If you don't want to invest in a rifle just for this a .22 will certainly kill a dog right now if you shoot it in the right spot. I've shot dozens of wild dogs with a .22 and I've only ever had to shoot 2 more than once. That was because they turned their heads just at the last second. I've shot them at distances in excess of 50 yards. I just make sure to put a bullet in their brain. If you're a good shooter it shouldn't be that hard.

Chances are the pack will scatter after the first shot though. If they don't you have a real problem. We don't even have animal control in our county anymore because the county couldn't afford it any more. So problems like that are on us to deal with. Then they pass laws that you can't shoot a dog for any reason. Go figure. They aren't forcing me to live in danger.

Ranger Roberts
February 5, 2014, 01:14 PM
I would guess that they are feral dogs. We get packs of them wandering through the property a few times a year. We have coyotes as well but they tend to bail out the second they see a human, that isn't the case with the feral dogs in my experience. Feral dogs can be pretty big as well.

I live in a very rural area, my neighbor and I share a driveway and he is almost a 1/2 mile away from me. We thin the packs out pretty quick when they show up. Like someone said earlier, use a semi-auto centerfire if it's legal in your area. If you can hit the "alpha" great, if not any gunshot is probably going to scatter them anyway. I have been able to "hunt" a few of the packs with a second shooter and it works out great because we can "call" our shots.

Best of luck to you. I'd check with your local fish and game about baiting. It's not legal in a lot of areas.

buck460XVR
February 5, 2014, 01:26 PM
First thing I would do is contact the local LEA. They will tell you what the proper actions are and can direct you to whatever agency has control over such scenarios. If you live in a semi- rural area on the outskirts of town, odds are folks are dumping unwanted dogs in your area. What you are seeing may be feral dogs, coy-dogs, wolf-dog hybrids, wolf-coyote hybrids or wolves. Whether or not it is legal to shoot them just cause they are in your backyard is something you need to find out. Feral dogs and dog/wolf/coyote hybrids have little fear of man. Wolves themselves do and are less dangerous than most folks think. Years ago we also had a feral dog problem around us....we contacted the county animal control officer and they attempted to deal with it. After a while, they just told us to shoot any dog that was seen without a collar that acted "funny". It seemed for the longest time to go in cycles where we thought we had eliminated the problem only to have it reappear a year later. Finally a hunter found a den with a bitch and puppies and after she was eliminated, the problem was solved.

PJSprog
February 5, 2014, 01:44 PM
We have the same problem from time to time, feral dogs from people dumping them. As noted, the coyotes aren't usually a problem, and we have no wolves in my area.

If you think it might be a wolf problem, you would be well advised to find out any legal ramifications of shooting one before you do it. A guy over in Missouri recently shot what he thought was a large coyote, which turned out to be a timber wolf, and may be facing charges last I heard.

Dr. Sandman
February 5, 2014, 02:35 PM
What about a trap? Look into a guillotine style trap that they use to catch pig sounders these days. You might be able to trap the entire pack unharmed. Then you can decide what to do with them. I really like Bubbles advice about shutting up. It's amazing how often that is the right thing to do.

Sentryau2
February 5, 2014, 02:42 PM
Check with LEO or local game warden or fish and wild life service. Could be wolves, could be wolf/dog hybrid. Wolves and dogs DO interbreed in the wild. There were a few good documentaries on them a while back, tho you had to take it with a grain of salt. You can look on youtube, or netflix.

JustinJ
February 5, 2014, 02:45 PM
Wolves have been so relentlessly hunted that they will scram at the sound of gunfire. I'm not sure if there are wolves in your area but the chances of wolves attacking a human in the US are so miniscule that its a non issue.

berettaprofessor
February 5, 2014, 02:52 PM
Shoot, shovel, shut up....don't even post it on the internet. Because sooner or later, some crazy PETA type is going to take exception to what you're doing and you'll find yourself on the front page after being arrested for animal cruelty. Ask me how I know.

buck460XVR
February 5, 2014, 03:06 PM
Shoot, shovel, shut up....don't even post it on the internet. Because sooner or later, some crazy PETA type is going to take exception to what you're doing and you'll find yourself on the front page after being arrested for animal cruelty. Ask me how I know.


Okay...how do you know?

As for SSS, if what you are doing is legal than no problem, but the suggestion to others that they should do so to cover an illegal act is not really The High Road. A poacher/violator is still a poacher/violator. Vigilantes are still criminals. Acting tough about it don't make it legal nor right.

627PCFan
February 5, 2014, 03:13 PM
Put up a trail cam and see if you can get some shots. I'm betting feral dogs. When you see a wolf in the wild you damn sure know its a wolf.

JohnBiltz
February 5, 2014, 03:17 PM
Wolves in Alabama are extremely unlikely. Unlikely enough that fish and wildlife will probably laugh at you.

primalmu
February 5, 2014, 03:21 PM
If they are red wolves, be advised that they are endangered and you may potentially face criminal charges if you shoot them.

http://facstaff.bloomu.edu/ccorbin/Biodiversity/RedWolf_Hoelzer.htm

AlexanderA
February 5, 2014, 03:22 PM
Depends on where you live. In my neck of the woods (northern Virginia), dogs without collars probably still belong to somebody. The proper response here would be to call Animal Control.

Pizzapinochle
February 5, 2014, 03:26 PM
If they are red wolves, be advised that they are endangered and you may potentially face criminal charges if you shoot them.

http://facstaff.bloomu.edu/ccorbin/Biodiversity/RedWolf_Hoelzer.htm
I was going to say something similar. Your first step should be to positively identify the animals, make sure you know what you are dealing with. then determine if that is protected in any way. Answering those questions should make the decision of what to do a bit easier.

BSA1
February 5, 2014, 03:58 PM
Ditto on knowing your State & Local laws.

As I live in a rural area it is legal and protected from lawsuits to shoot any dog that comes onto my property to protect my livestock. Being nice any of neighbors dogs that come onto my land usually first get a load of #8's. If they fail to learn their lesson then I put them down. Farmers in my area are less tolerant. Having three of my small dogs killed by other roaming dogs I am also rapidly becoming less tolerant myself and will be packing daily along with having a rifle in the truck.

*Kemosabe*
February 5, 2014, 04:27 PM
bainter - I've only had one contact with wolves and I was unaware they were also black... thanks for the heads-up.

MistWolf - I took your suggestion and called the Game Dept. They informed me that there were no wolves indiginous to this area, however, he suggested that someone might be breeding wolf hybrids. He also said that the coyotes had very heavy coats this time of year making them look considerably larger and that black coyotes were not unusual. What was unusual for coyotes was that there were so many in the pack.

I was is infomed that it is always open season on coyotes and baiting or the use of electronic game callers was legal. I'm going to try this baiting and using the caller first.

silicosys4 - You were right; they're not wolves. After a long discussion with the Game Dept. (several officers were involved) it would have been highly unlikely that they were feral dogs from the very high uniformity of their traits, but still a possibility.

Bubbles - "Bait, sit on roof, .300 Whisper suppressed w/ NV scope / Shovel / Shut Up" -- My kinda guy! :D I've got more than one well used shovel in the shed! :evil:

Cee Zee - "They aren't forcing me to live in danger." Agreed. I have several hi cap centerfire rifles, but they were moving so fast that a shotgun with #4 buck would personally give me a higher probablty of hits and higher carcass count.

Ranger Roberts - I was viewing them from a darkened room and they never saw me, so I don't know how they would react to seeing a human. It's unfortunate because it might have answered some questions.

buck460XVR - The local police didn't have a clue. The only thing they added was shooting after 11 PM was a violation of noise ordinance... as if that was going to stop me!

PJSprog - Agreed, checking first can save mucho grief and pesos too!

kvtcomdo
February 5, 2014, 04:32 PM
I'm sorry.

Pack of animals roaming the streets and your yard.

Don't run away when confronted but become interested in you.

Dead animal.

JustinJ
February 5, 2014, 04:34 PM
Coyotes attacking a human, much less an adult man, is a non-issue so unless you have livestock what's the point of killing them?

Jim Watson
February 5, 2014, 04:37 PM
I dunno about the wolf thing. I am not a wildlife expert, but I would expect roving large canids in Alabama to be feral dogs or coy-dogs. Unless told otherwise, I would regard them as dangerous varmints to be eliminated.

A friend's daughter home for Christmas brought along her 7/8 wolf/dog. There wasn't much dog there. That thing sitting under a fir tree in the cold moonlight looked like every picture of a wolf you have seen. The little bit of caveman in me KNEW it was a wolf.

Bubbles
February 5, 2014, 04:38 PM
Bubbles - "Bait, sit on roof, .300 Whisper suppressed w/ NV scope / Shovel / Shut Up" -- My kinda guy! I've got more than one well used shovel in the shed!
I'm not a guy...

P5 Guy
February 5, 2014, 04:46 PM
http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/what/Mammals/Carnivores/rw.cfm

SCIENTIFIC NAME: Canis rufus

OTHER NAMES: Brush Wolf

DESCRIPTION: A red wolf is a medium sized wild canid that is 3 to 4 feet long and weighs 40 to 90 lbs. It is much larger and more robust than the more common coyote. The pelage is a coarse tawny-cinnamon mixed with gray and black along the sides. A darker shade of gray and black is evident along the back. The legs are longer and the feet and ears are larger than the coyote. Neck and nose are usually white and the tail is bushy with a black tip. Its nose, ears, neck and outer surfaces of the legs are tawny

http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/forestfriends/redwolf.html

Quick Facts

ORIGINAL HABITAT: Throughout Southeastern United States. By the 1980's, red wolves were found only in coastal Texas and Louisiana.
RELOCATION HABITATS: Alligator River Wildlife Reserve in North Carolina, the Great Smokey Mountains of Tennessee, some islands off the coast of Florida , Mississippi & S. Carolina.
NATURAL CURRENT HABITATS: Anahuac National Park in Texas, {some sources claim native populations in Louisiana and the west Alabama wetlands, but these animals may be red wolf hybrids}
SIZE: 35-90 pounds, 4-5 feet long, 2-2.5 feet high at shoulder.
DIET: Small rodents and mammals- rabbits, white-tail deer where available, squirrels, crayfish, insects.
BREEDING: Mates twice a year with litters of 3-7 cubs. High infant mortaility rate.
LIFESPAN: 8-16 in the wild, up to 20 in captivity.
BREEDING: Mates twice a year with litters of 3-7 cubs. High infant mortaility rate.
STATUS: Extremely endangered, almost extinct.
ESTIMATED NUMBERS: Around 300, most in captivity.

Jim Watson
February 5, 2014, 04:53 PM
Yes, but from the same source:

"The red wolf was extirpated from Alabama in the early 1920ís."

If you want to see a red wolf, you have to go to a zoo or to a refuge in North Carolina.

jrdolall
February 5, 2014, 04:58 PM
I live in a very rural area of Alabama where my neighbors all own over 100 acres and we have the same issues.

There are no wolves in Alabama, at least not wild wolves. They are either coyotes or feral dogs. I live near a major highway and people dump dogs constantly for whatever reason people have for dumping dogs. They also occasionally dump horses in my pastures but they usually open the gates first and let the horse in with the cows.

I can call rescue agencies to come get the horses but there is no "dog catcher" that can chase the wild dogs through all the cattle pastures and pine thickets. Hungry dogs will chase cows. Hungry dogs will kill calves. If a stray is obviously sweet I will pick him up and take him to a shelter in town. I have had plenty that just jumped right in the truck with me and rode like they were at home. If they have tags I will attempt to catch them(especially hunting dogs)and return them.

A large percentage of the dogs I see are bulldog varieties with pit bulls being predominant. I have no problem with pitbulls as they can be very sweet like any other dog but I do respect them for what they are capable of doing if provoked.

We have a don't ask don't tell policy around here. It's not any fun but it's the responsible way to control them. If they are in my yard then I just deal with it. Of course my neighbors do the same so I don't have any issue there and the game warden or sheriff sure isn't gonna investigate.

P5 Guy
February 5, 2014, 05:11 PM
Yes, but from the same source:

"The red wolf was extirpated from Alabama in the early 1920ís."

If you want to see a red wolf, you have to go to a zoo or to a refuge in North Carolina.
Jim, I'm thinking there are misidentifications going on. But that is an interesting thing, maybe pretty dangerous, too.

buck460XVR
February 5, 2014, 05:13 PM
I live in an area of Wisconsin with a high density of wolves. They have been here in substantial numbers for almost 20 years. While there have been several instances of them preying on cattle and hunting dogs locally, the problem we have with canines close to buildings and humans are either feral dogs and/or wolf/dog hybrids, bred by humans and released into the wild because they could not find a buyer, did not want to feed them, and/or could not control them anymore.


*Kemosabe*, if the police did not have a clue, did you contact the state DNR/F&G? If the animals in question are a problem, a threat to humans and are really wolves, those folks need to know about it. Tracks if clear, may be able to distinguish between a true wolf and a dog and/or wolf cross. Wolf tracks are much larger than even very large dogs and are rectangle more than square(like a dog) and middle claw marks are generally close together compared to them and the outter claws as opposed to a dog's where claw distances are more equal.


Here is something my state puts out about wolf identification. The bushy erect tail with the black tip and erect round ears are two common identifiers.

Wolf characteristics

The following wolf characteristics were designed to help non-biologists determine if an animal is wolf, dog, or hybrid. They are the average measurements taken from 24 adult wolves. Certain characteristics may vary with animal's age and health status, such as canine wear and fur conditions. If an animal has at least 8 out of 10 of these characteristics, there is a high likeliness that it is at least part or mostly wolf, but in some cases DNA testing may be needed to confirm its status.

Head is relatively large, with broad cheeks ~ 5.75 inches (~15 cm) across, below the eyes.
Face markings are well blended, lacking distinguishable borders.
Well furred erect ears rounded at tip ~ 4.75 inches (~12.1 cm.) long.
Light colored slanted eyes, ranging from amber to yellow.
Normal coloration is rusty brown (cinnamon) with black tipped guard hair, winter coat has thick under fur and guard hair.
Elongated snout (non-dished) with black nose and large ~ 1.0 inch (~23 mm) inward curved canine teeth.
Narrow keeled chest and hips, front feet slightly toed out, shoulder height ~ 28 inches (~73 cm).
Long legs with large ~ 3.5 inches (9.0 cm) long by ~ 2.6 inches (6.7 cm) wide front feet and smaller back feet
Ruff of fur around neck and shoulder area resembling four layer cape appearance. Chest girth ~ 24 inches (~ 60.5 cm)
Straight bushy tail with black tip, black spot (precaudal gland) on top of tails base. Tail bone length ~ 17.5 inches (43.5 cm)

Gaucho Gringo
February 5, 2014, 05:39 PM
If it keeps up like this it will naturally sort itself out hopefully. Why do you think most humans have a fear of wolves? Because in the process our evolutionary development the ones that did not fear wolves didn't survive. Wolves have and will attack humans given a chance. Why do we have all the big bad wolf stories handed down from eons ago? There are no big bad Bambi stories. It was a matter of survival. Wolves behavior today is no different than it was 10,000 years ago, but a lot of humans have definitely gotten more stupid in the last 100 years. They think that all furry carnivorous predators are cute and cuddly and they will play nice with them. So let them go out in the woods unarmed and see how cuddly they are. It might do the gene pool some good. IMO the only good wolf or feral dog is a dead one. I value my life too much. Shoot, shovel and shut up.

hso
February 5, 2014, 05:45 PM
Firstly, wolves are a minimal threat to humans these days.

Secondly, Fish and Game in Abalama might have them listed as protected and you'd be breaking the law.

Thirdly, Fish and Game would probably want to trap and relocate them and do your work for you.

Fourthly, you're not likely to be seeing wolves in your area and far more likely to be seeing coyotes or coyote/dog crosses and that makes them of interest to Fish and Game for extermination.

If the authorities will do your work for you it makes sense to let them.

If you want to make sure, put up a game camera and motion sensor lights and send pics to Fish and Game.

joeschmoe
February 5, 2014, 05:51 PM
Secure your trash, raise your bird feeders so they feed the birds, not other critters. Ask your neighbors to do the same. Eliminate any other sources of trash/food for them.
Report your sightings to local LEO. If threatened on your property, destroy them.

*Kemosabe*
February 5, 2014, 07:54 PM
First: I failed to mention this ocurred at our Mississippi house and not in Alabama. So the conversations with the Game Dept. apply to Mississippi and NOT to Alabama. I apologize if it got you on the wrong track.

Second: In Post #25 it was determined that there are NO wolves in this area and therefore they are a non-issue.

Third: The trash IS secure (never said it wasn't), but just try and keep birds from spilling seeds from a feeder... geez!

Fourth: Deer and their fawns are welcome visitors in our backyard as are the foxes, our cat and dogs... all of which are coyote food. Are you not aware that coyotes and feral dogs are carnivores???

Fifth: Please read ALL of Post #25 so I don't have to address non-issue questions... thanks!

MistWolf
February 5, 2014, 07:57 PM
...Wolves have and will attack humans given a chance...

There are no documented accounts of unprovoked wolf attacks on humans in North America

robhof
February 5, 2014, 08:07 PM
Thank God I'm not the 1st to suggest shooting them, in another posting about shooting feral cats, I got chewed out for suggesting shooting feral dogs. Animal control will Never there when the dogs are, unless you live next to their dispatch. I used to get paid $1.00 per dog/cat as a teenager by farmers where I grew up to eliminate feral animals that stupid pet owners think the farmers will take in. In Miami. the zoo had to pay professional hunters to kill a pack of feral dogs that was destroying their African plains animals.

Sam Cade
February 5, 2014, 08:12 PM
There are no documented accounts of unprovoked wolf attacks on humans in North America

Fantastically rare is not the same as none.

Please View Attachment.

Nom de Forum
February 5, 2014, 08:42 PM
Coyotes attacking a human, much less an adult man, is a non-issue so unless you have livestock what's the point of killing them?

Unfortunately, coyote attacks on humans are no longer a "non-issue". Both individual and group attacks while rare have been happening in suburbs. Familiarity breeds contempt, and I suspect the coyotes are contemptuous of the mostly unarmed suburbanites.

berettaprofessor
February 5, 2014, 08:52 PM
As for SSS, if what you are doing is legal than no problem, but the suggestion to others that they should do so to cover an illegal act is not really The High Road. A poacher/violator is still a poacher/violator. Vigilantes are still criminals. Acting tough about it don't make it legal nor right.

Not saying or thinking its illegal to shoot them. But legal is different from what others feel is acceptable. Owning and carrying guns openly is acceptable in Texas but that won't keep you from being arrested for it. Shooting a maniac with a knife in your home is probably legal as well but that won't keep a rabid anti-gun prosecutor from making you defend yourself with your savings and the equity in your home.

readyeddy
February 5, 2014, 09:03 PM
AR with 30 round mags sounds about right.

splattergun
February 5, 2014, 09:10 PM
Wolves in L.A.? Possibly dog-coyote cross, but not wolves.
Continue shooting 'em. Call DWR and animal control.

Conservidave
February 5, 2014, 09:16 PM
i use a paint ball gun to dispatch dogs, coyote's or anything i dont want hanging around my place. They rarely come back for more......

jerkface11
February 5, 2014, 09:16 PM
IDK why you felt undergunned. Not like the pack would stick around after you started blasting with a shotgun.

stevek
February 5, 2014, 09:25 PM
We've been having an issue with coyotes taking a lot of the neighbors cats/small game. When I am out with my dogs, I have a Glock 20SF on my hip.

Steel Horse Rider
February 5, 2014, 09:39 PM
My experience in shooting began as a very young man shooting the very types of animals you describe on our farm in Iowa. We raised cattle, pigs, sheep, and chickens and there were many predators who wished to have dinner at our expense that were quickly dispatched by myself or one of my brothers with either a .22 or an Argentine Mauser if it was a long shot. The numbers of dogs seemed to run in cycles, my Dad believed that the good city folks liked buying cute puppies but after they reached full growth they became an expensive nuisance so they were taken for a ride in the country and never came back - after all, don't animals belong in the wild - without giving any thought to the danger these animals become to the rural residents and their livestock when they either become diseased or gather in packs.

For those of you offering the olive branch advice, I suggest you listen to the Billy Joel song "Pressure", pay special attention to the lyric about offering your "Peter Pan advice" because you have no scars on your face and you cannot deal with pressure."

Deltaboy
February 5, 2014, 10:22 PM
Packs of Dogs on the Farm got #4 Buckshot and pairs or single got the 22 rifle or if way out in the pasture our 22-250.

gtd
February 5, 2014, 11:19 PM
"I say canines because I'm not sure what they were. "

Probably coyotes but I can't say without a photo. You might try trapping them, it's a fun pasttime. Look at www.trapperman.com for lots of good info. On 18 acres you have no land restrictions, I assume. (Alabama law applies, you might need a license.)

With that much land you'll have canine problems, just be careful at night and be armed, and have a great flashlight, too. They'll eventually get the message.

Regards,
GT

marv
February 5, 2014, 11:53 PM
I live out in the sticks. Neighbors and I been troubled by large dogs damaging property, killing cats, etc. I called local L E. Deputy came to my house. He basically told me "Deal with them however you have to". Sounds to me like SSS.

JTHunter
February 6, 2014, 12:23 AM
Nom de Forum said:Unfortunately, coyote attacks on humans are no longer a "non-issue". Both individual and group attacks while rare have been happening in suburbs. Familiarity breeds contempt, and I suspect the coyotes are contemptuous of the mostly unarmed suburbanites.

And "coy-dogs" have even less fear of man, and can be larger and more aggressive than true 'yotes.

Many years ago, I saw one run across the street in front of my car. It was running from a patch of woods with several expensive homes to a farm field behind three more homes. This animal was almost as tall as a Lab but less weight. From the middle of his sides to the ground, his fur was the normal tan/gray of a 'yote but from the ribs up to its spine, it got redder and redder. Along the back, it was almost as red as an Irish setter! He also had the long, pointed muzzle and upright ears of a 'yote.

The reason I could see this one so well was that it was about 11:30 in the morning!:uhoh:

Onward Allusion
February 6, 2014, 12:52 AM
How would you resolve this situation?

Bait + sit on roof with suppressed 10/22 w/BX-25 mags = No more problem.

788Ham
February 6, 2014, 01:04 AM
Nom de Forum : You're right about your comments. In 2 close suburbs from my house, this past month there has been several run-ins with coyotes chasing and biting humans, killing dogs on the leash, with owners trying to save the dogs. Both municipalities have said they aren't out there, until someone shows up with another dead dog. One suburb, this past week, has had coyotes running in packs down their streets, grabbing loose dogs and cats as they go, the pet owners ask the cops, "What do we do, they're just coyotes !"
I lived in the country growing up, if a stray dog showed up, we chased it off, if it came back, SSS.

Kurt S.
February 6, 2014, 01:09 AM
Here in Alpine (Brewster County, TX) we get coyotes in town occasionally. They don't last long.

We have gray fox all over the place. They will get housecats and go after small dogs if hungry enough, but my little rat terrier and my dachsund mix are enough to send them runnin'.

Worst critters here are javelina that come into town. Afraid of nothing. Oh, and skunks...

My family lives in south-central Kentucky. Periodically the locals will go out on feral dog hunts. I don't blame them. Almost everybody has chickens and a lot of people have feeder calves throughout the spring and summer. Also turkeys. Feral dogs are a big problem.

If I was a "government should solve it" guy I'd say dropping dogs and cats off into "the country" should be a felony. As it is, if you see somebody doing it you should be at least be able to follow 'em home and give 'em whatfor, but...

Sam Cade
February 6, 2014, 01:28 AM
My family lives in south-central Kentucky. Periodically the locals will go out on feral dog hunts. I don't blame them. Almost everybody has chickens and a lot of people have feeder calves throughout the spring and summer. Also turkeys. Feral dogs are a big problem.

I live in south-central Kentucky*. Feral dog packs have been greatly reduced with the successful reintroduction of the Coyote.

Why?
Stray-dog=Coyote Chow.

I haven't seen a dog pack in 15 years.



(*I'm in Barren now, from Cumberland.)

hartcreek
February 6, 2014, 01:47 AM
I would fire up my backhoe and get a hole dug and a few bags of lime. You have checked with fish and wildlife and the other authorities so you know that your chance of wolves is small but I would set up a few game cams to confirm what you have. Once you have confirmed what you have yotes, feral dogs or cross breads get to culling.

One thing that may help.....wolves can not curl their tail so if you see animals of wolf size and they can curl their tail they can be shot.

I have had a similar situation and was authorized by fish and wildlife to do the culling and just get it done as they did not want the hybreds contaminating the local wolf pack.

Apachedriver
February 6, 2014, 03:19 AM
I found this link a while back and it seems a pretty good reference point. I was specifically looking for Texas nuisance animal laws when I came across it.

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/statestatutes/stusalset.htm

YMMV per state for ease of search.


For anyone in Tx, I found a state quick ref guide put out by Waller County:

http://ww2.co.waller.tx.us/tx_animal_laws.pdf

buck460XVR
February 6, 2014, 10:49 AM
But legal is different from what others feel is acceptable. Owning and carrying guns openly is acceptable in Texas but that won't keep you from being arrested for it.


Being legal vs just doing what you think is acceptable is the difference between a responsible hunter and a poacher, or a criminal and a common citizen. As you have posted, violating the law makes you a criminal and open to charges/arrest even tho YOU feel what you have done is acceptable. Thinking what you are doing is acceptable even tho it's against the law, is basically the mindset of every criminal. My whole point is, why openly suggest, on a public forum, that someone break the law, and leave themselves open to be arrested and fines? Maybe even the possibility of loosing their hunting rights and the confiscation of their firearm? Not The High Road nor does it display a positive image of gun owners to others.

I don't know the laws in Mississippi or Alabama that well, altho I could probably Google them. But I don't need to know them. But as I and others have posted, the OP should or should find out before he does something stupid to jeopardize his hunting/gun ownership privileges. Any suggestion he do otherwise is just stupid in itself. Everyone here has pretty much assured the OP that what he has seen are not wolves, but depending on state/local law, whether or not he can indiscriminately shoot them for gettin' in his garbage no one has been able to answer. Years ago, here in Wisconsin, it was common practice to shoot any dog chasing deer. Do that now and odds are you will find yourself in jail and will probably lose the firearm you shot it with. You will also be responsible to reimburse the dogs owner for the dog and/or any medical expenses that occurred, even if the dog was running loose without a collar. Unless........you call a warden or animal control and they tell you it is alright.

fiddleharp
February 6, 2014, 12:36 PM
Lately, I've stopped poo-pooing "wolf sightings" from unlikely places.
What changed my mind was a critter I saw one night here in Southwest Florida.
I live in a rather rural area and was coming home one night, slowing down to turn onto my road, when I saw a large animal I first mistook for a small deer by the side of the road.
When my headlights fully lit it, I could see it was the biggest coyote I've ever seen. It was staring down into a palmetto patch, all tensed up, cocking its head this way and that, ready to pounce on something.
By this time my car had nearly stopped, about twenty yards away. This animal glanced over its shoulder at me for a moment, then turned its attention back to whatever was in that brush.
I went ahead and continued my turn and went home.
The thing that struck me about this canine was how tall and leggy it was, and how red its fur appeared in the headlights.
Everthing about it looked like your typical coyote, except its size, legginess, and red color.
As soon as I got home, I googled "red wolf" and found out that there is a captive breeding program on a wooded island in the panhandle of Florida, and from time to time red wolves escape to the mainland.
I'm convinced the animal I saw was either a red wolf, or a red wolf/coyote hybrid.

Cee Zee
February 6, 2014, 01:39 PM
In the eastern US there is speculation that wolves and coyotes are breeding creating a far more aggressive version of what is being called an eastern coyote. These animals are said to be very aggressive towards humans especially when they live in areas close to humans like near suburbs. So coyote attacks on humans is not a "non-issue".

Most of what we see are either coy-dogs or just feral dogs. Both are very dangerous. I'm not sure about the new cross-breed species being an eastern coyote or whatever. But attacks are on the rise.

Where I live we have coyotes and we have feral dogs. At the very least the coyotes are a nuisance animal and it is perfectly legal to shoot them at any time. Feral dogs are another story. It is illegal to shoot them which is monumentally stupid. I've had the sheriff's office tell me to shoot them anyway.

Vol46
February 6, 2014, 02:45 PM
To all the folks suggesting a call to " animal control", or " the authorities" - get real. This is the rural South we are talking about, not downtown Pittsburgh. Animal control is likely nonexistent ( our rural TN county may have one person who primarily runs the local shelter, & will occasionally give advice on catching a stray dog, skunk or possum if it is a significant nuisance). Local authorities are spread thin & generally have higher priorities than chasing around the local woods & fields hunting stray dogs or coyotes.
The OP has already talked to Fish & game & I think to local law enforcement. The only help he is likely to get will come from his model 1100.

Salmoneye
February 6, 2014, 03:27 PM
In the eastern US there is speculation that wolves and coyotes are breeding creating a far more aggressive version of what is being called an eastern coyote.

I have no idea about the Southern animals, but up here in the East, there is no speculation whatsoever...Tis fact...

A study showed that of 100 coyotes collected in Maine, 22 had half or more gray wolf ancestry, and one was 89 percent gray wolf.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf

75# though not common, is not rare here in VT for a mature male Yote...

forward observer
February 6, 2014, 03:49 PM
I find it hard to believe that nobody yet has come to the only conclusion that one could make about these mysterious canines. Coyotes, wolves, wild dogs---nonsense.

They can't be anything else but----Werewolves!::eek:


There's a simple solution just as close as your phone book. You need to get in touch with a----Vampire!

Just look under "V" in the yellow pages and have a couple come over. Remember to hang garlic around your neck, your wife's, and the baby's neck. Also, do not invite them in the house. :cool:

From that point on just set back and watch the carnage.:D

buck460XVR
February 6, 2014, 03:54 PM
The OP has already talked to Fish & game & I think to local law enforcement. The only help he is likely to get will come from his model 1100.


This is true, but all we were trying to tell the OP is to check first, and he agreed.....

Agreed, checking first can save mucho grief and pesos too!

buck460XVR
February 6, 2014, 03:56 PM
I find it hard to believe that nobody yet has come to the only conclusion that one could make about these mysterious canines. Coyotes, wolves, wild dogs---nonsense.

They can't be anything else but----Werewolves!::eek:





In Mississippi, I thought the monster in fashion was called "Morpheus" :what:

MistWolf
February 6, 2014, 04:02 PM
I find it hard to believe that nobody yet has come to the only conclusion that one could make about these mysterious canines. Coyotes, wolves, wild dogs---nonsense.

They can't be anything else but----Werewolves!::eek:


There's a simple solution just as close as your phone book. You need to get in touch with a----Vampire!

Just look under "V" in the yellow pages and have a couple come over. Remember to hang garlic around your neck, your wife's, and the baby's neck. Also, do not invite them in the house. :cool:

From that point on just set back and watch the carnage.:D

Oh, that's just cruel bringing in the bloodsuckers. But how do you plan to get rid of the ex-wives and their lawyers after they've finished with the wolves?

berettaprofessor
February 6, 2014, 04:05 PM
But legal is different from what others feel is acceptable. Owning and carrying guns openly is acceptable in Texas but that won't keep you from being arrested for it.

Buck460XVR, I think you missed the point of the above example you quoted. Open carry is legal in Texas and yet several individuals have been arrested for it in the last few months. My point was to find out if it's legal and then still don't advertise what you're doing because in this day and age, somebody is going to still give you grief....arrested by authorities who just don't know the law or harassed by animal rights people, it still isn't good.


Any suggestion he do otherwise is just stupid in itself

Hey, that's real HighRoad yourself, there buddy.

RetiredUSNChief
February 6, 2014, 04:16 PM
If I may with respect to Wolves:

Contrary to popular belief held by many, Wolves are NOT dogs, nor can they be counted upon to behave like dogs. They are NOT domesticated animals, like dogs. In fact, genetic evidence shows that dogs are not direct descendents of Wolves, but rather share a common ancester...meaning they're more like "cousins" from different family branches rather than direct descendents.

Wolf behavioral instincts are far stronger than the similar instincts in dogs. And behavior which you or I recognize in dogs as "friendly" may, in fact, NOT be friendly at all in Wolves. Stalking behavior comes to mind, for one.

My point is that if one encounters Wolves, you CANNOT rely on your preconcieved perceptions/experiences with domesticated canine behavior to safely interpret Wolf behavior and actions, most especially not for predictions.

So if you suspect Wolves, then the safe avenue is to act as if they ARE Wolves and be extremely wary of them. Do not turn your back on them and get to safety first and foremost, if at all possible. Any act against them should be taken from the advantage of a safe position, if at all possible.

And contact the authorities as well. Wolves interacting with humans on human property is a concern for all.

Deanimator
February 6, 2014, 04:20 PM
We have coyotes in the Cleveland area now. I live above the Metroparks and hear them howling in the valley below me. I've also seen prints in the snow in our parking lot.

Coyotes frequently prey on pets left unattended outdoors, and, in large enough packs, have attacked (and occasionally killed) humans.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 04:37 PM
A few people near my mom's place in northern AZ have trouble from time to time with coyotes. They live in a small town but firing guns on the streets is a no-no. Too much of a population.

The coyotes generally seem to prey on trash cans and other small varmints near the trash cans. She just started carrying a can of bear spray when she walks her dogs. The coyotes usually high tail it as soon as anything disturbs them anyway. She's never had to use it.
Seems adequate to my mind.

buck460XVR
February 6, 2014, 04:39 PM
Buck460XVR, I think you missed the point of the above example you quoted. Open carry is legal in Texas and yet several individuals have been arrested for it in the last few months.



Since when has open carry become legal everywhere in Texas? I was under the impression that both the top Democratic and Republican Gubernatorial candidates are campaigning that they are proposing an "open carry" bill that would make open carry for handguns legal most everywhere for individuals with CWC permits. Open carry has always been legal here, but you still hear stories about folks with a gun on their hip being wrongfully harassed by authorities. But this is folks that know the law, not guessing.

Sorry if you don't agree that the suggestion to others to break the law or to be ignorant of the law is stupid. Me, I'll stand on that statement.

Cee Zee
February 6, 2014, 05:05 PM
Coyotes frequently prey on pets left unattended outdoors

I saw a single coyote making it's way across the field behind my house as it eyed the family cats. I was standing outside when this happened. It finally saw me and retreated but I have no doubt that critter will be back for dinner. That one coyote is well known in this neighborhood it turns out. I've heard many stories about it since moving here a few months ago. It's huge for a coyote for one thing. It may be an eastern coyote but I've never seen what I thought was one in this area before. The last place I lived had a pack of coyotes running rings around my house all night long at times. I got photos of them on my game camera. They aren't very good photos though because the light was fading. But they never got close to the house. What I heard close to the house was wild boar.

Given enough time and enough interference from gun grabber types we will all be facing wildlife around our homes we don't want. At my house I own a neighbor trapped a bobcat just up the hill not to mention the numerous bears and coyotes too. I've seen mountain lion tracks in the national forest surrounding that house too. Those will certainly attack people.

We need the freedom to control populations. I don't want things like they were when I was a kid when there was hardly any wildlife here but farmers here have a terrible time with coyotes attacking their livestock. Just across the hill a man had a coyote den under his barn. Talk about putting your bedroom next to the kitchen!

Even the gun grabbers will be begging us to get rid of problem critters before long. They already are in many ways. Wild boar in Texas and Florida, nutria along the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers (I saw one almost to West Virginia along the Ohio River), and then there's the Asian carp too. We can't live in a world that we don't have some control over. I do not like the idea of hunting whales or any endangered species. It's the invasive type species and the dangerous ones that make me wonder. Yes I know shooters can't shoot at carp now but governments are considering making shooting them with a shotgun a legal thing to do.

Gun grabbers have no idea what guns have done for mankind. Yes we've made horrible mistakes with them like nearly wiping out bison but times are changing and the pendulum is swinging back the other direction IMO. The world needs shooters whether they know it or not.

Potatohead
February 6, 2014, 05:52 PM
True. God gave Adam dominion over the animals way back when. They are not equal to humans, as the PETAs would have you believe.



I wish I had property that I could shoot wild animals on. Sounds like fun.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2014, 06:09 PM
True. God gave Adam dominion over the animals way back when. They are not equal to humans, as the PETAs would have you believe.

I wish I had property that I could shoot wild animals on. Sounds like fun.

There's a difference between dominion vs. domination (http://www.swordoffire.com/pdf/Dominion_Domination.pdf). Dominion has nothing to do with needless/wasteful killing. But I assume you meant hunting in order to harvest the meat which I too support.

EDIT: another (http://www.sarabytheseason.com/2013/08/01/dominion-versus-domination/)

Vern Humphrey
February 6, 2014, 07:02 PM
Here's a trick -- organize the women. Get a list of all your county supervisors and their HOME phone numbers and provide the list to the ladies. Have them call the supervisors at any time of the day or night when they see feral dogs -- "There are wild dogs in my yard!! I can't let my children play outside! Do something about it!"

Make sure the local media get notified, too.

orionengnr
February 6, 2014, 07:28 PM
I would think the best option would be to try and get them off your property humanely? Is there something you can do to scare them?
Yep, make it someone else's problem. Your neighbor will do likewise, and his neighbor likewise. Sounds like a plan...a plan made up by someone who never heard of "what goes around, comes around". :rolleyes: And by the time it comes back around, the pack has grown from 5-10 to 25-30.

As far as saying "there are no wolves"...unfortunately, there are are a growing number of idiots who think that breeding wolves with domestic dogs (and then selling the pups to everyone who will buy one) is a great idea. If you are not familiar with the phenomenon, you aren't paying attention. I know someone (idiot sister of a friend) who has been doing it since the mid 90s at least. "Really cool". She lives four states away, and I haven't visited since.

Upon further review...Vern may have the perfect counter-strategy. :)

PabloJ
February 6, 2014, 07:30 PM
I live in a semi-rural area that is on the outskirts of a small town. Most houses in our "development" are on at least 5 acres and many are in excess of that. Our house is on 18 acres that is mostly wooded and there is considerable wildlife. Last week there were 7 deer scavaging under our bird feeders.

Three years ago the neighborhood trash cans were being knocked over and rummaged through by pack dogs. One day back then I saw 4 large mangy dogs, none with collars, rummaging through our trash and I yelled at them to frighten them off. They turned toward me and proceeded to stalk me -- I was unarmed. I hauled ass and because of my new-found weight it took me two trips to get back into the house. :D:D:D

After that I never went into my yard without a gun and subsequently over the next three months I killed 5 dogs, none with collars and all were in packs of 3 or more. Two of my neighbors advised they had done the same thing -- problem solved... until now.

Tonight at 12:30AM I saw 8 canines frantically searching in my backyard. I say canines because I'm not sure what they were. At first I thought they were wolves because they were all the same size, large and stocky, and the same shape -- like wolves. They were all gray except for one that was all black... and that one gave me doubt that they were wolves. They were way to big to be coyotes.

Bottom line: Unless I was carrying my 12 gauge loaded with 6 rounds of #4 buck and my Colt Combat Commander I would have felt under gunned. Now I'm worried for the safety of my wife and myself should the pack show up again.

I was thinking about setting up my alerting motion detector (Harbor Freight Driveway Alert) and baiting them, then shooting them as I did the pack dogs.

How would you resolve this situation?
Perhaps the landed gentry should pool some funds and hire professional dog catcher? If state or government officials say something tell them it's for the KIDS.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 07:35 PM
Yep, make it someone else's problem. Your neighbor will do likewise, and his neighbor likewise. Sounds like a plan...a plan made up by someone who never heard of "what goes around, comes around". :rolleyes: And by the time it comes back around, the pack has grown from 5-10 to 25-30.
Not everybody is interested in killing an animal just because they can and perceive it as being a inconvenience.

silicosys4
February 6, 2014, 08:00 PM
Not everybody is interested in killing an animal just because they can and perceive it as being a inconvenience.

Take off your rose colored glasses for a moment and google "feral dog attacks child"


"Inconvenience"?

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 08:08 PM
Take off your rose colored glasses for a moment and google "feral dog attacks child"


"Inconvenience"?
Probably the same kinds of hysterical sites that promote bans on pit bulls.

I will play for a minute though. Lets both google for all sorts of scary statistics.

Lets google the number of fatal dog attacks first and then google the number of fatal gunshot wounds and see which is more "inconvenient." Or we can be a little more enlightened in our approach to these things and look at what kinds of risks actually exist. I think you'd find that most dog bites happen to someone who actually knows the dog.

silicosys4
February 6, 2014, 08:14 PM
Yea, but we aren't talking about cute pets, or even bad dogs.
We are talking about wild animals that have no fear of humans. An "inconvenience" is the BEST case scenario.

At the risk of going off topic, I will say if you don't fear for your children or your neighbors children while they playing in the yard when there are known packs of feral dogs wandering the area, that's your mistake.

When your neighbors pets start disappearing, or they get attacked, being able to say you lived and let live wont be so satisfying.
some things just need to be done.

Don't confuse a feral dog pack with either a domesticated pitbull or gun accidents, both of which can be controlled by their owners.

Mike1234567
February 6, 2014, 08:18 PM
Probably the same kinds of hysterical sites that promote bans on pit bulls.

I will play for a minute though. Lets both google for all sorts of scary statistics.

Lets google the number of fatal dog attacks first and then google the number of fatal gunshot wounds and see which is more "inconvenient." Or we can be a little more enlightened in our approach to these things and look at what kinds of risks actually exist. I think you'd find that most dog bites happen to someone who actually knows the dog.
I've posted many times that I don't like to hunt... I like animals too much and I'm a coward when it comes to such things. However, after a near attack by three pit bulls one day and being unarmed there later came a day. I called the police and they never found those dogs. I was worried sick for days that they would attack a child. About a week after that near incident I heard what sounded like a woman screaming at about 3AM. It was very dark so I had to get all the way across the street in my neighbor's yard before I could see what was happening... yes, I was armed that time. I saw the leader of those three pit bulls killing the neighbors dog. I knew it was the same pit bull because of the markings and the same old battered rope it was dragging around. I won't say what happened to that pit bull but I can tell you with absolute certainty that animal will never again be a threat to anyone in that neighborhood.

orionengnr
February 6, 2014, 08:19 PM
I will return the favor.

Not everybody is interested in killing an animal just because they can and perceive it as being a inconvenience.
Where did I say that I was "interested in killing an animal just because they can and perceive it as being a inconvenience" (your words, exactly).

Please pull your head out of whichever orifice it is stuck in, go back and read the OP...and then the successive posts. Especially mine.

And then respond, intelligently, to the above.

If you can.

grter
February 6, 2014, 08:23 PM
I am getting the impression that some people here are actually suggesting that others allow these animals to hurt or kill their loved ones and pets by not taking any action at all because they feel it is cruel to the animal or may be illegal.

Proctection of animals has it's place but not at the expense of allowing one to maim or kill one of your family members or anyone else for that matter.

I would hope that the ton of laws already on the books address these issues because they MUST BE ADDRESSED.

Get real no one should have to be forced to give wild animals the opportunity they need to attack people.

If you want to complain, complain about these huge urbanization projects that displace these creatures from their natural habitat forcing them to live near humans that they would rather be far from.

Feral dogs if no action is being taken to address people who dump their animals as well as tracking them and ridding the area of the problem for whatever reason, be it lack of funds and resources, stupidity, or just plain lazyness don't ask people to wait until a child is killed before what every one knows should have been done is done.

Don't blame the average guy who has to protect his own when these animals swarm his/her property and body space.

Furthermore anyone who does so derserves NOTHING LESS THAN YOUR FULL SUPPORT on the matter and should not have to be forced to deal with someone's psycological unwillingness to accecpt the situation and unwillingness to part with their ideals in an often unideal world.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 08:25 PM
I will return the favor.


Where did I say that I was "interested in killing an animal just because they can and perceive it as being a inconvenience" (your words, exactly).

Please pull your head out of whichever orifice it is stuck in, go back and read the OP...and then the successive posts. Especially mine.

And then respond, intelligently, to the above.

If you can.
After reading, you certainly make a pack of dogs sound like an inconvenience and then describe the pack growing dramatically. Then it becomes a danger and you must do something about it.

Sounds to me like you have a nice justification for shooting strays.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 08:28 PM
Yea, but we aren't talking about cute pets, or even bad dogs.
We are talking about wild animals that have no fear of humans. An "inconvenience" is the BEST case scenario.

At the risk of going off topic, I will say if you don't fear for your children or your neighbors children while they playing in the yard when there are known packs of feral dogs wandering the area, that's your mistake.

When your neighbors pets start disappearing, or they get attacked, being able to say you lived and let live wont be so satisfying.
some things just need to be done.

Don't confuse a feral dog pack with either a domesticated pitbull or gun accidents.
I'm not confusing anything. Feral dog attacks are so low on my list of concerns as to be non-existent. The chances of being attacked by a pack of feral dogs are ridiculously low.
Your chances of being shot are higher although not as high as the chances of you being bitten by your own dog.

Just trying to get the point across that feral dogs aren't really a problem for most. Certainly not a problem that warrants drawing a bead on some stray that wanders through an invisible property line.

orionengnr
February 6, 2014, 08:28 PM
Sounds to me like you have a nice justification for shooting strays.
Sounds to me like you skipped the OP, all the interceding posts, and summarized my post in the way you wanted to...
Try again.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 08:31 PM
Sounds to me like you skipped the OP, all the interceding posts, and summarized my post in the way you wanted to...
Try again.
Read the OP again. He had a couple dogs digging through the trash. OH THE HUMANITY! He yelled at a couple more who took an interest in him. He then saw some random dogs in the dead of night on his rural property. He decided to begin killing feral dogs.

Read a couple of your posts.

My summary stands.

silicosys4
February 6, 2014, 08:32 PM
God help your child if they try to play with a couple of those "strays".

I'm willing to bet good money you'd change your mind about killing feral dogs if you actually had ANY experience with them.

orionengnr
February 6, 2014, 08:33 PM
Feral dog attacks are so low on my list of concerns as to be non-existent.
Because it is not high on your list, it should not be a concern for anyone else, either, right?
The chances of being attacked by a pack of feral dogs are ridiculously low. Your chances of being shot are higher although not as high as the chances of you being bitten by your own dog.
That smells suspiciously like Mr. Kellerman's position on gun ownership...
Just trying to get the point across that feral dogs aren't really a problem for most.
Again...it's not a problem for you, or for "most"...so why would anyone have a valid argument? An open mind is not your forte, my friend.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 08:33 PM
"Draw a bead on some stray"

........

That is not what is being discussed here.

Move along now.
Did the OP admittedly shoot stray dogs?

Yes or No? It's in the second paragraph.

I think you're done here.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 08:35 PM
Because it is not high on your list, it should not be a concern for anyone else, either, right?

That smells suspiciously like Mr. Kellerman's position on gun ownership...

Again...it's not a problem for you, or for "most"...so why would anyone have a valid argument? An open mind is not your forte, my friend.
According to the agency that actually tracks how people are injured and killed in this country, feral dog attacks are a very minor issue.

Open your mind to facts.
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/dog-bites/index.html

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 08:36 PM
God help your child if they try to play with a couple of those "strays".

I'm willing to bet good money you'd change your mind about killing feral dogs if you actually had ANY experience with them.
I keep better track of my children than to let them play with stray dogs. Same reason I don't take my pit bull to dog parks.

grter
February 6, 2014, 08:37 PM
Clean97GTI wrote

"Just trying to get the point across that feral dogs aren't really a problem for most. Certainly not a problem that warrants drawing a bead on some stray that wanders through an invisible property line."

Feral Dogs are dangerous you don't seem to get that and I get the impression that you are accusing everyone here of being ignorant trigger happy criminals.

You do not want to be or have your kids in the middle of a pack of wild strays. Their actions are unpredictable.

RetiredUSNChief
February 6, 2014, 08:37 PM
"They turned toward me and proceeded to stalk me"

The OP isn't talking about some kind of harmless "stray dogs" here with a statement like that.

Dogs who have gone feral aren't "stray" and they aren't "tame". And feral dogs that have formed a pack are rather more dangerous, even.

Conversely, "stray" dogs aren't "feral".

There's a difference...and it's a rather large and dangerous difference.

Robert
February 6, 2014, 08:41 PM
Oh for the love. OP, if I were in your shoes and ot were safe to do so I'd shoot them on the spot with out hesitation. But then I tend to drag my knuckles when I walk...

For everyone else, do as you see fit on your land and let the OP do the same.

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