Equipment to commercially produce .22lr ammuntion


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armedaccountant
February 5, 2014, 04:08 PM
I was talking about the ammo shortage with my boss yesterday and he had no idea about the shortage because he rarely shoots anymore. He asked me to look into what it takes to produce .22lr and see if it would be a viable option to invest in. Does anyone know where somebody could order the equipment needed to produce .22lr?

Please don't post about all the the other costs and licenses, etc that are required. I understand all of that. I just need to figure out the equipment cost at this point. This is not some crazy pipe dream. I am going to run a full business model for my boss. If it has a negative NPV I won't even show him the report. If it has a highly positive NPV I will give him the numbers and let him decide.

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Ryanxia
February 5, 2014, 04:11 PM
Regardless of the responses on here, I hope it works out for you. We are too much at the mercy of too few manufacturers (nothing against them). The more small manufacturers the better. I say small because CCI alone pumps out 4 million rounds of .22 daily. At least they did before the panic, not sure what their current production is at.

rcmodel
February 5, 2014, 04:14 PM
Bad idea.

All the major ammo manufactures have already ramped up production, and in some cases built additional factories to meet the present hording demand.

There are signs they are beginning to catch back up now.

Then one fine day, the ammo shortage will be over, a lot of folks will have horded more ammo then they can use the rest of their life, and the manufactures will be left with excess capacity and low sales again.

Your boss doesn't want to be 'that guy' with a multi-million dollar investment, and no customers.

Heads will roll, and it might be yours for even suggesting such a risky venture in these uncertain times.

rc

BSA1
February 5, 2014, 04:32 PM
Conservative estimate; $1,000,000+

Land in property zoned area

Buildings large enough and meets zoning, fire and safety codes.

How much of the ammunition will you be manufacturing? Machine for drawing lead into bullets, machine to draw brass, machine to put the priming powder in the rim and the usual powder, bullet seating and crimping. Then you will will need to invest in packaging. By hand will be very slow.

Gunpowder and priming compound will need to be stored in separate location.

Money for contacts with suppliers, i.e. Brass, lead, powder, etc.

Training of employees, payroll and benefits.

Overhead...keeping the lights on, etc.

How quick of payback are you wanting?

Transportation and shipping system.

Lot of safety equipment and Q.C. Checks.

Insurance...lots of it.

Lawyers.

Forget a million dollars, try more like $3,000,000+.I agree that this is a sinking ship. Center fire ammo has already rebounded.

The best way to make a little money is to start with a lot of money.

pharmer
February 5, 2014, 06:24 PM
Rimfire is way more difficult to produce than centerfire. Many machines are needed: to drop the priming liquid, spin, dry, drop powder, seat and heel crimp the bullet. Ain't for amateurs like CF reloading. Joe

armedaccountant
February 5, 2014, 06:25 PM
Like I said, I am not concerned with the facets of this at this point. I will explore those later, I know there are many things to consider. If it only cost 3,000,000 to set something like this up I would be surprised. I was expecting it to be much more than that. I am not emotionally invested in this. This is not something some buddies got in their head over a few beers.

My boss is a very successful businessman. He heard about a constrained product with extremely high demand and wanted to run the numbers. He considers new projects all the time, and like most of the business world most of them are rejected. I just am wondering where someone would procure the equipment. I hope I can shorten my search by asking on here.

barnbwt
February 5, 2014, 07:08 PM
Honestly, you aren't going to get useful info from a public internet forum. The vast vast vast majority of people don't even know what the various manufacturing steps are, let alone what the machines that do them are called, let alone who sells them or what they cost.

Your best bet, sadly, would be to look up experienced people in the industry on Linked-in or something, and see if they can at least point you to their machinery vendors. At worst, the machines themselves were custom built by Remington and are trade secrets. At best, the process is probably slightly-less intensive than setting up a rolling mill or large-scale sheet metal press operation; i.e. a nearly nation-level undertaking :D. But who knows? It could be as easy to set up a small-scale case-making shop as it is a whiskey micro-distillery (so not easy or cheap, but possible with some capital)

Boutique ammo would be the smart bet for a start up, if there is one. You can't compete with the big boys since you're paying off your machinery (even if you business plan is magically just as cheap/efficient as theirs), so don't. Instead, offer a product that doesn't compete with any other major player, and you might last long enough to establish yourself in the market where you can experiment with offerings with wider appeal. Low-capacity machinery will also be cheaper and smaller, though it will ultimately limit your scale, of course, and require addition/upgrading.

Whether it's super-match grade, or Zombie stuff, or 22LR that smells like strawberries when shot, so long as you aren't immediately going up against overwhelming force, you may make it despite the overwhelming odds ;)

TCB

danez71
February 5, 2014, 07:45 PM
This might be a tiny start for you.

http://howellmachine.com/manufacturing.htm

Howell Machine specializes in custom building new ammunition manufacturing equipment, repairing and refurbishing existing equipment, fabricating custom machine components and providing process improvement expertise.

aladdin
February 5, 2014, 09:17 PM
Howell machine. Founded by Thurston Howell the third.:D
Sorry I couldn't help it.

RPRNY
February 5, 2014, 10:14 PM
Keep in mind the probable back-log in being able to purchase manufacturing equipment. It is very likely that rimfire ammo making equipment manufacturers are backlogged on orders as well.

armedaccountant
February 5, 2014, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the link to Howell Machine. That is a good place to start. I also appreciate the Linked In idea.

To those who are saying this probably won't be a good idea, I agree. That is how must things turn out when you really look at them. If every idea had a positive NPV we would all be rich. But if we don't take a serious look at ideas how would we ever know.

rodregier
February 5, 2014, 10:36 PM
FWIW, there are also Youtube videos of .22LR production lines in operation. That is no-where sufficient detail to garner the information necessary to draft a business plan, but it does give some grasp of the kind of infrastructure necessary to do such production.

Unless you managed to hire a .22LR production engineer with years of experience away from one of the others, I have my doubt that you would be producing match-grade ammunition for several years. Subtle learning curve about all the quirks of .22LR.

You might find it easier to find a European equipment manufacturer to supply the production machinery. They also have some terrific .22LR ammunition mfgrs (Eley, Lapua, etc).

ole farmerbuck
February 5, 2014, 11:11 PM
There should be a lot of used machines for sale. It doesnt seem like many companies are using theirs. had to say that too.:neener:

rallyhound
February 5, 2014, 11:16 PM
I have a good friend who maintains the production equipment at Federal in Anoka MN.

They are currently producing about 42 million rounds of 22lr per week.

medalguy
February 5, 2014, 11:47 PM
The business I founded many years ago had some custom-designed machinery to make several small metal parts. Each one of those machines cost us in excess of $100,000 for each part we made. Without divulging the whole thing, these machines used stamping presses coupled to vibratory feed equipment to feed small pieces into another machine that assembled the final part. It took about a year to refine the equipment so it worked as we designed it, and nearly constant maintenance and fine tuning to keep these machines running and producing more than a million pieces a year from each machine. No one is going to start up an ammunition manufacturing line with no trained personnel and no prior experience. Ain't gonna happen.

rondog
February 6, 2014, 12:52 AM
Would you please define "NPV"? I'm sure I'm not the only one that doesn't know what that means.

Acronyms are evil.

rondog
February 6, 2014, 12:53 AM
Rallyhound - ask your friend where it's all going!

NoKY guy
February 6, 2014, 09:38 AM
rondog - NPV is Net Present Value

jrdolall
February 6, 2014, 09:44 AM
I would guess that most of the equipment will be completely custom made and probably a large part of it would be made outside the US. When I was in manufacturing(not ammo) we often had to put in calls to multiple equipment manufacturers and have their reps come out and give us the old "dog and pony".

A conservative estimate from me based SOLELY on equipment costs would be in the $3 million range. I have set up lines from scratch in other businesses and that is a reasonable figure for ALL NEW equipment.

I would start with the link someone already supplied and branch out from there.

Taurus 617 CCW
February 6, 2014, 10:00 AM
You may also want to take a look at these places as well:

http://ammoload.com/

http://www.setpointusa.com/ammunition-equipment/ammunition-manufacturing-equipment.html

http://camdexloader.com/

http://www.advengsys.com/inline_loader.aspx

22plinker
February 6, 2014, 10:12 AM
I doubt that I will ever see it but think it would be neat to see the rimfire ammo go the way of the micro brewery.
I didn't think I would ever see the micro brewery or distiller either but they are common here in the Midwest.
That could be the answer to seeing high quality rimfire return to our shores.:cool::cool::cool:

Midwest
February 6, 2014, 10:15 AM
We are a year and an month + into this unprecedented shortage. I am still not convinced that the shortage will end anytime soon and any new manufacturers willing to step up to the plate would be most welcomed.

Since .22 LR seems to be the top of the list for shortages, I think starting a commercial .22lr ammo manufacturing company makes a lot of sense. Most importantly perhaps those "I can't find .22 ammo" threads might finally disappear by 2018 here on THR. Our local Meijer store has essentially been without handgun ammo since December 2012.

Here are the pluses.

There will always be a high demand for .22 LR.

.22 LR firearms don't seem to be on the gun grabber's radar as other firearms.

There are tons of .22 LR firearms out there all needing to be fed.

.22 LR firearms historically cost less than other firearms with others calibers and seem to be a good choice for first time gun owners.

.22 LR ammo takes up less space than other calibers. A few 50 round boxes can easily fit in a pants pocket which means more rounds to shoot with less to carry.

Good Luck

armedaccountant
February 6, 2014, 12:30 PM
Thanks for all the replies. It will be a while before a decision is made. I will update this post when we decide yes or no. Do not get your hopes up, the majority of the time something like this is looked at(not just ammo but any new business venture) the answer is no.

Sorry for the abbreviation rondog. NPV as NoKY guy said means Net Present Value. In very simplified terms it is a way of looking at how much money will go into a project(expense) and how much money it will generate(revenue) and comparing that to a known a factor. For instance say I have an annuity that will generate 5% interest. Would I be better putting my money into the annuity and getting 5% or should i invest in this project.

Sam1911
February 6, 2014, 12:42 PM
Something else which you've probably already thought of, but I'll throw out as worthy of consideration:

A bit of industry research might illuminate whether any of the big players (like CCI/Blount) are expanding their rimfire production lines or building new ones now. And if the answer is no, why are they not? Another area of study would be the question of process scaleability. We know that center-fire ammo production is pretty easily scaleable from the kitchen table up to a national manufacturer's production lines. Rimfire ammo, though isn't so scaleable, and it isn't clear what the lower limit might be. In other words, how small a boutique supplier (in other words, lower investment) can you be and still make the numbers work?

mgmorden
February 6, 2014, 12:50 PM
Honestly, you aren't going to get useful info from a public internet forum.

This is probably the best response.

Your business plan might be sound. You may have the capital available to do this. However, just because the people here SHOOT a lot of rimfire ammo doesn't mean we know squat about making it.

Almost any info you get here will be guesses - some might be close to the mark - some might have no clue.

Teachu2
February 6, 2014, 01:07 PM
Good luck with this project. The biggest problem I see is not technology, it's politics. The technology has existed for decades, and all it takes is money to buy equipment aPolitics created the current shortage, and THIS panic is showing signs of easing up. By the time you could get in the game, it will be pretty much over. However, if the political factors cause another panic - or even revive this one - then it makes sense to have the capacity to take advantage of the situation. If Hillary wins 2016, I would expect prices to spike - and it to also become harder to enter the business.

It's a gamble - and a long-term gamble, at that.

Cee Zee
February 6, 2014, 01:11 PM
I see an awful lot of negative responses here. This is America where people can and do succeed. I have a great uncle that owned a factory for many years. He started it up himself and kept it running for decades. It became outdated eventually but not before he made a mint. He made conveyer belt systems. It's not ammo but it's a pretty complicated procedure. He also produced windows for a while. And people do have money to invest. For some that 3 million price tag wouldn't scare them a bit. I know a guy who owns an arena. He essentially bought it with pocket change for him. My brother in law could easily invest 3 million. And I have a friend that has far more money than my BIL. He made his money hooking up businesses to a music service. He started from scratch and probably has made $50 million. He owns half a small town now or at least half the business district. That was just a hobby of his.

I don't know a thing about making ammo. But I do know that people can succeed in this country. Some already have. My BIL is always looking for new ways to make money. He was about to set me up in a business a while back but my health bombed on me. I worked for him and saved him a bunch of money and he was going to set me up to do the same thing for his friends in other businesses. He had it all set up but I just couldn't do it. It was a computer consulting business he was going to set me up in BTW. He knew we could both make money with his contacts and my knowledge of computers at the time.

Again, this is America. People do make it here. It may not pan out. Like the OP said most business ideas don't. But it might work.

mac66
February 6, 2014, 01:47 PM
"I have a good friend who maintains the production equipment at Federal in Anoka MN.

They are currently producing about 42 million rounds of 22lr per week."

Holy, moly, where the heck is it all going?

I didn't buy any 22 ammo last year because I stocked up in previous years when it was available and cheap. I have enough to last me awhile longer but eventually however I want to start shooting more. I will need to replenish in about 5 years so I hope the shortage is over by then.

Personally, if I was looking to get into the 22 ammo biz, I would look at South America or Russia or other former com-block countries and see what they are doing.

x_wrench
February 7, 2014, 05:22 PM
the investment is going to be huge. but i do not think that is going to be the real problem. the real problem is that the "shortage" which is not a shortage at all. is going to be temporary. not a short term temporary, but temporary just the same. my guess is that the demand will remain STUPID high until after the current politicians have been thrown out of D.C. (which should have been January 21 2009) then, about a year to catch up. then, there is going to be a several year low demand cycle. until all that excess ammunition gets shot up. during that time, the demand for new production is going to be very low. unless the manufacturers can "reinvent" the 22 into something it is not now. but with all the 22lr semi automatics out there, they would have to be very careful about what they do in that department. part of your equation will need to be how much money your boss could recoup during the next 4 years or so. if he could make money by the end of year 2, he might be ok. but if it takes longer than that, i am afraid it would be a bad business decision.

PJSprog
February 7, 2014, 05:55 PM
I'm with Cee Zee. If the man wants to investigate a business plan's viability, he most certainly should. Every successful businessman has at some point had to endure nay-sayers.

I say, go for it. I'd gladly shoot someone else's rimfire ammo for a change. Just as happened in the beer industry, perhaps smaller players might cause the bigger guys to take notice and improve their products, too.

Cee Zee
February 7, 2014, 06:32 PM
my guess is that the demand will remain STUPID high until after the current politicians have been thrown out of D.C. (which should have been January 21 2009) then, about a year to catch up

The thing is the gun grabbers aren't going away. We have already seen 2 cycles of shortages. How many more are coming? I don't know. But smart people have ways of making right decisions. And very often they work out.

It's often said that a problem is really an opportunity. Those current bullet makers got started somehow. It can be done again I suppose. I don't know. But I know there are reasons to think about it.

longspurr
February 8, 2014, 09:44 AM
Ammunition making: An insider's story
by George E Frost (Author)

I cannot lay my hands on this book at the moment, but I remember this is by a Remington engineer. Part of the book is details how he was sent to Mexico to start up a 22 manufacturing site. This is interesting reading and pertains to this topic.

Another way to get into some businesses is to Franchise. If one had the money to partner with Norma of Sweden or S&B of Czech Republic, to bring a specific product manufacturing to America??

Both the Germans & Japanese have auto manufacturing plants here in America so IT CAN BE DONE.

mrvco
February 8, 2014, 10:06 AM
I'd take a look at setting up a centerfire remanufacturing operation if there isn't already one in your region. You can tailor your output to demand much more easily, e.g, high-volume FMJ range ammo or smaller volume match ammo and specialty loads.

As far as 22LR goes, I'd start an estate liquidation service for hazmat materials and other "dangerous items" that specializes in firearms and ammo. It is only a matter of time before we start seeing "horder widows" with garages and spare bedrooms stuffed full of 22LR guns and ammo that needs to be liquidated.

tuj
February 8, 2014, 02:04 PM
I read Glenn Newick's book on rimfire accuracy where he detailed the Eley plant in the UK. Climate-controlled booths around every machine, 300 variables that affect accuracy that must be maintained correctly for every round (unless you want to produce Remington Golden bullets) to make good ammo.

Consider that for the volumes of 17hmr shot around the entire world, there is only 1 manufacturing line (CCI's) as far as I know. Eley has 7 machines in the UK for Match and Tenex, at least 1 more in Mexico for Eley Sport and priming Aguilia and some Remington. CCI has a 22lr line. Winchester has one. Not sure if Remington farms their poor-quality ammo out or not... Federal has a line. RWS and Wolf and SK all share a line AFAIK.

Anyway, keep us updated on your business case. I have a feeling you need to run serious volume or produce a product that is better than Lapua and Eley at the high end.

DanTheFarmer
February 8, 2014, 03:36 PM
Just a thought for those pointing out the difficulty of competing with the established manufacturers.

A new company wouldn't have to compete with an established firm, they could be a paid contractor by an established firm. If a new producer can prove they can make a product to the required quality standards at an attractive price the big boys won't have to worry about that pesky hiring of new employees or building of a new plant. When demand is high they just negotiate a contract and supply the fancy "R" or "C" to stamp into the head of the brass and when the demand drops they don't buy any more and let the other company worry about how to pay for the expensive equipment.

I got my first 380 ACP pistol at the tail end of the previous ammo shortage and a bunch of the "Winchester" ammo I bought said "Made in the Czech Republic" in small print on the box. It was almost certainly made by S&B under contract. It had the same size box and the same plastic tray as S&B I also purchased at that time. Think about all the private label food in your grocery store. My local store sells "Market Basket" brand ketchup, mustard, etc.. I'm sure that the same factory does, or is willing to try to, supply to Albertsons or Winn-Dixie or whatever other chain wants a private label brand.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Dan

Steel Horse Rider
February 8, 2014, 04:57 PM
Speaking from the tooling aspect as a former Tool and Die Maker, you would buy the sheet brass in rolls, you would need a high speed press to draw and upset the ends of the blanks for the primer, then you would need the machine to inject the priming material and spin the casing so the primer is evenly distributed, then a machine to add the powder charge and seat the bullet. Unless you were really going very high production I would probably recommend buying the bullets to start rather than rolling your own given the EPA hysteria over lead. It can be done and there are probably presses that were designed for other uses that could be adapted. I did a lot of work with drawing steel to depths in multiples of diameter and brass should be easier to work than mild steel. Look at your average aluminum can, they are stamped out at an amazing rate from flat sheet aluminum and it is harder to draw than brass.

herkyguy
February 8, 2014, 05:51 PM
Best of luck to you, Sir. I like the idea of "micro-brew" style .22LR production. or any ammo for that matter.

problem is, there will be some duds out there, just like microbrews. but unlike microbrews, duds in ammunition can have some significant consequences.

when some dodo decides to make a watermelon flavored IPA, the result is a few bitter beer faces, but when a small manufacturer messes up on ammo, things go boom in a bad way.

i would imagine the big boys carry some significant liability insurance and that would have to be a factor as well. either way, i'd be interested to see how it goes.

barnbwt
February 8, 2014, 06:14 PM
Bad beer can give you food poisoning, fwiw. All business has risk.

TCB

Tinman357
February 8, 2014, 11:04 PM
Well, apparently Federal has pumped out close to 3 billion rounds of .22 in the last year. I'd say the market is ripe for a start up. always going to be able to sell .22. I've had the same idea myself on a really small scale. Like 1000 rds a day. I cant afford the equipment or I would be marketing it here. Maybe with THR advertising on the box or something. :evil:

Jorg Nysgerrig
February 8, 2014, 11:29 PM
Holy, moly, where the heck is it all going?
42 million rounds a week only sounds like a lot. Given 10 500 round bricks in a case, that's only 8,400 cases. Assuming Walmart gets only one case for each store a week, that'll eat up about half of that, leaving 4,400 or so cases for all the other ammo retailers.

husbandofaromanian
February 9, 2014, 06:19 AM
If I was going to enter the rimfire manufacturing industry, I would start with a modest investment in R&D... If I'm going to tool-up in a mature industry, I'm going to build a better mouse-trap...

My rimfire ammunition will have to be innovative in some way... If I could capture a solid U.S. Patent, investment money would be easier to obtain...

longspurr
February 9, 2014, 02:15 PM
Starting from scratch is always the most difficult. Even the big companies like to buy smaller companies instead of reinventing a product.

Partnering with an established firm already in the field like Starline brass, Atlanta Arms or others and giving them the resources to expand to a new product like 22, is far more likely to succeed.

Liberty1776
February 9, 2014, 03:20 PM
Starting from scratch is always the most difficult. Even the big companies like to buy smaller companies instead of reinventing a product.

Partnering with an established firm already in the field like Starline brass, Atlanta Arms or others and giving them the resources to expand to a new product like 22, is far more likely to succeed.

I certainly agree with this. longspurr - which lake? ( I miss living in WI...)

mac66
February 9, 2014, 04:34 PM
22 lr ammo has been made for more than 125 years (Actually started by Stevens Arms in 1887) surely there is some obsolete equipment laying around that could be used to make ammo. Surely there are machines in foreign countries that are sitting idol waiting around for something to do. Surely the Chinese would be happy to make cheap 22 ammo so they can pay slave wages.

Surely someone is trying to develop and alternative to .22 ammo that doesn't need the sophisticated manufacturing processes (caseless ammo perhaps)

TennJed
February 9, 2014, 04:51 PM
I have a dumb question. Why is 22 ammo so cheap? It seems that the equipment and process is somewhat more complicated than CF ammo. Is it because each round uses less raw materials and once the equipment and process is up then they can produce more cheaper?

Sam1911
February 9, 2014, 05:01 PM
Yes, certainly that. And probably something to do with the fact that demand has always and forever (until now?) been pretty stable. Lots of OOooold machines churning along year after year keeping the supply chains fed, insulated from the ups and downs of any but the gentlest supply/demand wobbles. Then ... uh oh!

strambo
February 9, 2014, 05:02 PM
Bad beer can give you food poisoning, fwiw. All business has risk.Your point is stands in general, but beer can't give anyone food poisoning. When is goes "bad" accidentally it tastes bad and people say "yuck." When it goes "bad" in a controlled environment on purpose (same bacteria), people pay extra for these barrel-ages sour beers.

Nothing harmful to humans can live in beer, the low ph, alcohol, and hops kill it.

Sorry for the drift...back on topic, boutique rimfire would be cool, I'd love to know if low cost equipment exists. High quality CF ammo and beer can be made in a home kitchen...what is the smallest size/cost rimfire setup?

Another problem is the market, I pay extra for local microbrew, not so much for .22 lr. Boutique usually = higher (real or perceived) quality for higher cost.

I'm not willing to pay high prices for .22 even with a shortage, I just get email alerts and rarely it works out that I pick a box of 500 for a decent price. Otherwise, I'll patiently wait for the silliness to end, then stock up a bit more.

SharpsDressedMan
February 9, 2014, 05:02 PM
Anyone know or want to project how many rounds of .22LR the US consumers were buying and/or using PRIOR to this stepped up demand, per week? Then we might predict what the post-scare consumption might be.

Cee Zee
February 9, 2014, 05:04 PM
Surely the Chinese would be happy to make cheap 22 ammo so they can pay slave wages.

Clinton made such things illegal to import from China. That's why there are no new imports of Norinco SKS's.

DanTheFarmer
February 9, 2014, 05:30 PM
Labor costs probably don't account for much for this product. The process is very automated with little human input.

You guys are really stressing my memory banks but thinking back to my Army Ammo Ordnance Officer Basic Course I think we saw a small arms (yes, it was centerfire, but the ideas should carry over) production line that had no humans on the line and just one monitor/controller station in a safely remote location. There would of course need to be humans supporting the production line but you get the idea; lots of capital costs/low operations costs.

Anyone with experience is asked to correct me but that's what I remember from the 1980's.

Dan

Sam1911
February 9, 2014, 05:31 PM
Labor costs probably don't account for much for this product. The process is very automated with little human input.
For CENTERIFRE, that is true. For rimfire, not so.

There was a great video on this a while back, but now it is unavailable.

There's a lot of human hand involvement in the priming process.

Steel Horse Rider
February 9, 2014, 06:41 PM
I think in the production of ammo the costs of EPA regulations and insurance costs (both liability and loss) would be the cost drivers behind the equipment and utilities. The air filtration required for both lead and gunpowder particulate removal would be tremendous. People only consider labor costs but usually American labor can out produce any third world factory worker, but the regulations and insurance costs here price manufacturing out of the market.

TRX
February 10, 2014, 08:52 AM
Frost's "Ammunition Making" book, mentioned earlier, has a *lot* about .22LR manufacture, including drawings of the die sets, rounds-per-hour for each step of the process, chemistry of powder and primers, etc. The descriptions were of CCI's plant in the Philippines. As I recall, the equipment was almost exclusively standard stamping presses, mostly old and rickety when they were installed in the plant to start with.

Dr. Sandman
February 10, 2014, 09:04 AM
I say go for it! Maybe you can compete with the big boys.

Reloadron
February 10, 2014, 09:45 AM
In the subconscious mind of most shooters, the .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle rimfire cartridges form part of the bedrock of shooting sports. Their ubiquitous availability, affordable price, consistent quality and wide product range are taken for granted. Few shooters stop to consider the many difficulties inherent in the design and manufacture of these cartridges.

If you set out to design a self-contained cartridge that is difficult to make and suffers from numerous design shortcomings, it would be the humble .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle (.22 rimfire).

American Rifleman The Impossible .22 Rimfire. (http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/Impossible-22-rimfire/)

Pretty good informative writeup about the little 22 rimfire. Not long ago there was a pretty good and informative little video running around by CCI Speer where they went through the factory and showed in detail all of the steps and machinery used to produce 22 rimfire ammunition. Now every link to that video reads the video does not exist. Beats me what became of it as I watched it a month ago or so.

This is one of the old links that no longer will get you the video from OutdoorHub. (http://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/video-have-you-ever-wondered-how-rimfire-ammunition-is-made/)

No clue why that video is gone. Anyway, if someone with the ways and means wanted to manufacture 22 rimfire by all means do the due diligence homework and go for it.

Ron

Sam1911
February 10, 2014, 10:06 AM
Yeah, that's the video I was trying to post, but it's dead.

It did show the priming process in detail.

rodregier
February 10, 2014, 12:23 PM
The priming of .22LR is the most difficult/mystical part of the whole process. It's also potentially the most dangerous, since the compounds are only "safe" to manipulate when wet. A good process would have an isolated/explosion-handling design for the priming stage with no humans required to be present when it is running.

To a first-order approximation priming for .22LR is what makes or breaks the attendant product for reliable function. Most of the accuracy breakthrus in .22LR are related to how good a process is used for priming. Russian as well has (American) Federal Cartridge's .22LR Olympic-grade products were foremost improvements on how the priming compounds were deployed in the case. I believe one of the tricks they used was a centre dimple in the botton of the case to help encouage the priming compound to stay in the rim, where it will do some good.

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