Iowa cops: If someone in your house has a CCP, it is grounds for a no-knock SWAT raid


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dmancornell
February 5, 2014, 05:49 PM
Background: Iowa cops deploy SWAT in a no-knock raid against a house looking for credit card fraud suspects (!!!). One resident narrowly escapes being shot because he hears "police" just in time (well after SWAT made entry) and put away his handgun. SWAT team then destroys surveillance cameras. Homeowner is rather upset.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/04/as-many-as-nine-cops-raid-home-over-alle
http://whotv.com/2014/02/03/raid-filmed-ankeny-police-traumatize-family/#ooid=ZxMm9pazrKflCHiIxAwv4WBYLnNs68PS

The follow-up is even more disturbing, because the justification given by Ankeny police for the level of violence they used is because one of the residents (and not a suspect in the credit card fraud case) has a concealed carry permit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2014/02/05/troubling-new-details-about-the-violent-police-raid-in-iowa/

Sounds like another argument for Constitutional carry.

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orionengnr
February 5, 2014, 05:53 PM
Sounds like another argument for Constitutional carry.
If true, sounds like an argument for... something else altogether.

dmancornell
February 5, 2014, 05:57 PM
If true, sounds like an argument for... something else altogether.
Well, yes. But in the scope of this one specific incident, the cops cannot be trusted to know who owns handguns.

Teachu2
February 5, 2014, 06:05 PM
Just one more reason not to live with criminals - and in Iowa....:neener:

xwingband
February 5, 2014, 06:14 PM
All involved are lucky he actually believed them and put his handgun away... because criminals have never impersonated police while invading a home.

I hope he sues, if nothing else he should get the damages paid for as a stupid tax from the PD.

MErl
February 5, 2014, 07:02 PM
How many times did that WP article say "register his guns"? I didn't try to count but it was repeated over & over. Also confused a carry permit with an ownership permit.

Anyway, the points raised about the raid are still valid. Simply being a gun owner is not reason to be treated as a potential threat, this was seen in the FL man stopped in MD as well. Lets hope this gets the same eventual result, an apology and a change in procedures at minimum.

mbt2001
February 5, 2014, 07:16 PM
I also wonder if the chl played some part in this... Does this mean the police see lawfully armed citizens a threat? I think the sheriff/chief shoud be made to answer some hard questions.

moewadle
February 5, 2014, 08:15 PM
is originally posted here. The Police Chief held a press conference and gave their side of this issue and, to me, on the surface it appears not nearly as egregious, if it is at all, as what it is originally made to sound. The subjects of this search warrant are a long way from getting any apology or being able to file a law suit in my opinion.

MErl
February 5, 2014, 08:23 PM
The subjects of this search warrant are a long way from getting any apology or being able to file a law suit in my opinion.

No knock swat team raids on non-violent offenders because one person in the house has a CCW permit (which implies they have a handgun) should not be acceptable. As reported, that is the reason for that type of search.

Cannot go into much else on the story without deviating from THR topics.

dmancornell
February 5, 2014, 08:29 PM
is originally posted here. The Police Chief held a press conference and gave their side of this issue and, to me, on the surface it appears not nearly as egregious, if it is at all, as what it is originally made to sound. The subjects of this search warrant are a long way from getting any apology or being able to file a law suit in my opinion.

My takeaway from the police chief CYA points:

- Suspects had potential access to weapons. So does every single adult in America, clean record or not.
- Active warrants. For drug possession, a non-violent crime.
- Drug history. Irrelevant.

If "potential access to weapons" is reason enough for a no-knock raid from SWAT, then there is essentially no limit to SWAT deployment. If CCL/CCP rolls are to be used for this purpose, I would rather not get one.

The police chief also claimed that no one opened the door and everyone hid. Looking at the video before the camera was sabotaged, the residents were given about two seconds before the battering ram was utilized. So that is a least untruthful claim, in grand government tradition. Looks like the "knock" is little more than legal cover so that they can claim later than it wasn't a "no-knock" raid, despite giving the residents no time to respond.

These police procedures are ticking time-bombs when many American households keep firearms for self defense.

oneounceload
February 5, 2014, 09:48 PM
Those police behaved like Nazis and should be disciplined with termination after being sued for damages and pain and suffering

Deltaboy
February 5, 2014, 10:15 PM
Those police behaved like Nazis and should be disciplined with termination after being sued for damages and pain and suffering
I agree no legal reason for that Behavior from the Police.

JERRY
February 5, 2014, 10:39 PM
- Suspects had potential access to weapons. So does every single adult in America, clean record or not.
- Active warrants. For drug possession, a non-violent crime.
- Drug history. Irrelevant.


yeah, because armed dopers never commit violent crimes....

armedaccountant
February 5, 2014, 10:54 PM
My wife and I love to cook. You wouldn't believe how much "potential access to weapons" my kitchen has. We own three vehicles as well. Glad those have never been used as weapons by anyone.

Mike J
February 5, 2014, 11:01 PM
I don't really understand the the police departments logic. I would think it much more likely for someone to get shot crashing in the door & running in than knocking & announcing oneself. He should be fired for stupidity. His officers should also be charged with property damage. I wonder how he explains what their motive was for damaging the home owners security camera outside & covering a security camera inside. I guess they didn't want any versions different than their own of what happened to get out.

JERRY
February 5, 2014, 11:02 PM
My wife and I love to cook. You wouldn't believe how much "potential access to weapons" my kitchen has. We own three vehicles as well. Glad those have never been used as weapons by anyone.

toss in having prior illegal drug arrests, current outstanding warrants for illegal drug violations, and more than average chance of firearm possession you might be in trouble.

JERRY
February 5, 2014, 11:04 PM
I don't really understand the the police departments logic. I would think it much more likely for someone to get shot crashing in the door & running in than knocking & announcing oneself. He should be fired for stupidity. His officers should also be charged with property damage. I wonder how he explains what their motive was for damaging the home owners security camera outside & covering a security camera inside. I guess they didn't want any versions different than their own of what happened to get out.


could it be that the cops don't want drug dealers/users to have videos of actual police tactics?

Mike J
February 5, 2014, 11:41 PM
could it be that the cops don't want drug dealers/users to have videos of actual police tactics?

I would be more inclined to think it is just jack booted thugs. I know there are good cops but stuff like this is BS. These types of tactics should be outlawed as they get too many cops & innocent citizens killed.

JERRY
February 5, 2014, 11:46 PM
I would be more inclined to think it is just jack booted thugs. I know there are good cops but stuff like this is BS. These types of tactics should be outlawed as they get too many cops & innocent citizens killed.


well courts have shown lately that if the cops are wrong the victim gets paid well. time will show with this one I guess.

medalguy
February 5, 2014, 11:50 PM
Still no excuse for a citizen to have his rights violated. Ownership of a firearm, or a CCP, is not and should not be a reason for police to violate anyone's constitutional rights.

dmancornell
February 5, 2014, 11:55 PM
yeah, because armed dopers never commit violent crimes....

Irrelevant because of a lack of a violent crime record.

could it be that the cops don't want drug dealers/users to have videos of actual police tactics?

<bash down door>
<rush in>
<destroy cameras>

Those are some super special tactics.

JERRY
February 5, 2014, 11:59 PM
Irrelevant because of a lack of a violent crime record.

oh you missed it where I agree with you because armed dopers never commit violent crimes.

tompt
February 6, 2014, 12:05 AM
could it be that the cops don't want drug dealers/users to have videos of actual police tactics?

Could also be that citizens have the right to record what happens in their home.

george29
February 6, 2014, 12:14 AM
On the one hand, society has changed to the point that cops (and normal citizens) really have much to fear from the population at large, laws that were meant to give crooks the benefit of the doubt but those same laws that get in the way of the law abiding. On the other hand, cops aren't the officer friendly they once were not to mention crooked DA's and prosecuters. I figure the good cops equals the bad (or just burned out) but the real problem is that government is far too big and immune. I'm 52 and retired from my department 17 years ago due to injuries and I have to say, I'm not encouraged by the guys that replaced me, IMO nobody normal would be a cop today, too much BS.

JERRY
February 6, 2014, 12:25 AM
george29, it does take a different kind of person to put up with the crap facing cops now-a-days.

mrdeltoid
February 6, 2014, 12:37 AM
I don't think we know the whole story here. This is definitely not your typical no-knock. I wouldn't look for this to become a regular occurrence.

george29
February 6, 2014, 12:42 AM
george29, it does take a different kind of person to put up with the crap facing cops now-a-days.

I don't envy them and if I could do it over again I wouldn't. Here's a great line I'm sure you've either heard from a real Cop or at least from the movies, "I should have been a Fireman."

JERRY
February 6, 2014, 12:49 AM
george29, ive said that before.... in jest but really shoulda when I had the chance...

JERRY
February 6, 2014, 12:50 AM
mrdeltoid, I don't think we have the whole story either, but some wont let that get in the way of hysteria and making up tinfoil hat hilarity.

huntsman
February 6, 2014, 07:55 AM
In the early morning hours there's a din in the air;
mayhem's on the loose.
Stormtroopers comin', and you better be prepared.
Got no time to choose.

Get ready. Stormtroopers comin'.

Comin' up that street, jackboots steppin' high.
Got to make a stand.
Looking in your windows and listen to your phone.
Keep a gun in your hand.

gotta love Uncle Ted

sarge83
February 6, 2014, 08:07 AM
The citizens deserve to get paid, but until some of these officers who are exceeding their authority are punished either criminally or personally in civil court this is not going to stop and it will eventually get citizens and police officers killed.

The militarization of the police forces of this country will eventually result in dire consequences for us all.

Master Blaster
February 6, 2014, 08:36 AM
Long ago back in the late 1980's local Police organizations watched movies like Scarface and heard about threats from violent Drug lords and crazed gunmen. They decided they needed a SWAT team to address such rare but serious threats. Money was set aside in the department budget to create and train SWAT teams. After some time went by, Beancounters in accounting, started asking the Police departments how often they used the expensive SWAT team (and justifiably so). The answer was hardly ever, so when beancounters proposed eliminating SWAT teams as being too expensive and not really necessary...... The police department management decided to use SWAT teams more frequently to justify the expense, and what had been a knock on the door by a polite officer or two, became a dynamic no knock raid by a heavily armed SWAT team...

And to this day more officers are killed in Car accidents, and at rountine traffic stops and patrols, than durring raids looking for potentailly violent criminals... Thus reinforcing the success of the SWAT Team model and the Dynamic No Knock...

The Answer is to justify the expense of their cool toys and exciting training, police departments use SWAT more than they probably should and any excuse to deploy is good. Officer Safety has Replaced Protect and Serve.....

Warp
February 6, 2014, 08:40 AM
My takeaway from the police chief CYA points:

- Suspects had potential access to weapons. So does every single adult in America, clean record or not.
- Active warrants. For drug possession, a non-violent crime.
- Drug history. Irrelevant.

If "potential access to weapons" is reason enough for a no-knock raid from SWAT, then there is essentially no limit to SWAT deployment. If CCL/CCP rolls are to be used for this purpose, I would rather not get one.

The police chief also claimed that no one opened the door and everyone hid. Looking at the video before the camera was sabotaged, the residents were given about two seconds before the battering ram was utilized. So that is a least untruthful claim, in grand government tradition. Looks like the "knock" is little more than legal cover so that they can claim later than it wasn't a "no-knock" raid, despite giving the residents no time to respond.

These police procedures are ticking time-bombs when many American households keep firearms for self defense.

Exactly.

On top of everything else the police are liars.

And tearing down the camera...they know what they are doing is wrong and are trying to cover up evidence so they can get away with their lies.

It's despicable.

jrdolall
February 6, 2014, 09:11 AM
Any time a cop, or any LEO, destroys a camera he should be arrested immediately! There is absolutely no VALID reason for a cop to destroy a camera. If he does his job properly then any photographic evidence should be to his benefit.
If your wife hires a detective and the guy gets video of you sleeping with another woman I doubt you can destroy the camera and convince your wife it didn't happen.

Mike J
February 6, 2014, 09:15 AM
well courts have shown lately that if the cops are wrong the victim gets paid well. time will show with this one I guess.

Somehow I don't think getting paid would do Kathryn Johnston any good. http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/24/atlanta.police/

Ryanxia
February 6, 2014, 09:33 AM
The citizens deserve to get paid, but until some of these officers who are exceeding their authority are punished either criminally or personally in civil court this is not going to stop and it will eventually get citizens and police officers killed.

The militarization of the police forces of this country will eventually result in dire consequences for us all.
This is so true it's money in the bank. The continuing militarization of the police force in America is going finish our Liberties off or spark another Revolution.

Robert
February 6, 2014, 10:23 AM
The police messed this one up bad, but I agree that we may not be getting the whole story. If misconduct is found then they need to be face charges, both criminal and civil.

But I do not see this going anywhere productive and am not inclined to leave it open so we can rack up 13 pages of "cops are evil".

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