Moose milk


PDA






351 WINCHESTER
February 8, 2014, 06:14 PM
Would someone share the ratio of ballistol with water to clean and preserve my cap and ball revolver?

Many thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "Moose milk" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Don McDowell
February 8, 2014, 06:22 PM
Moosemilk won't preserve anything, you'll need a good oil for that.

1 part Ballistol to 10 parts water works alright for cleaning.

frontiergander
February 8, 2014, 06:27 PM
moose milk is a patch lube.

I'd use Barricade for rust protection.

jgh4445
February 8, 2014, 06:56 PM
I just finished cleaning a BP rifle with 10:1 water/Ballistol. Used it for years with no problems.

BowerR64
February 8, 2014, 08:00 PM
Moosemilk won't preserve anything, you'll need a good oil for that.

1 part Ballistol to 10 parts water works alright for cleaning.
There isnt any oil in ballastol?

It sure feels oily to me. There is something in it after you wipe it that leaves a film.

jgh4445
February 8, 2014, 08:19 PM
My understanding is that Ballistol is a water soluble oil, like cutting oil. Such a delightful aroma!

Don McDowell
February 8, 2014, 08:22 PM
There isnt any oil in ballastol?

It sure feels oily to me. There is something in it after you wipe it that leaves a film.
Yes there is oil in Ballistol, but MOOSEMILK is a combination of ballistol and WATER.
Use moosemilk to clean if you think you need to, but for preserving the metal, you then need to dry it, and then use an oil. Straight ballistol works alright but there are things that work much better.

frontiergander
February 8, 2014, 08:52 PM
moose milk has peroxide in it as well. Not very good at keeping corrosion away since it will rust your barrel when used on a patch and loaded over night.

BowerR64
February 8, 2014, 09:27 PM
Yes there is oil in Ballistol, but MOOSEMILK is a combination of ballistol and WATER.
Use moosemilk to clean if you think you need to, but for preserving the metal, you then need to dry it, and then use an oil. Straight ballistol works alright but there are things that work much better.
What do you use to preserve?

I use G96 also its simmilar, has a cleaning agent in it but that eveporates and leaves behind an oil or greasey film after the cleaner eveporates. It is however petroilum based so i dont use it for anything but the outside on BP guns.

Im happy with the stuff ive been using they keep the parts working, the barrels arnt rusting and the guns seem pretty accurate this is all i really want.

Don McDowell
February 8, 2014, 09:43 PM
Bower I've been using Montana Extreme's accuracy bore conditioner for the last several years, and really like what it's doing.

Driftwood Johnson
February 9, 2014, 12:27 AM
moose milk has peroxide in it as well. Not very good at keeping corrosion away since it will rust your barrel when used on a patch and loaded over night.

I think you are confusing Moose Milk with Murphy's Mix. The generally accepted definition of Moose Milk, at least in the CAS world is 1 part Ballistol to 10 parts water. There is no peroxide in the generally accepted forumla.

Murphy's Mix is equal parts Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, and drugstore Hydrogen Per Oxide. It WILL NOT rust your barrel because the percentage of per oxide is very, very low. Drugstore per oxide is usually about 3% per oxide, the rest is water. After being diluted with the other two ingredients the percentage goes down to about 1% per oxide. I have used this for years, it will not rust anything. The idea is you clean with the M Mix, swab it out of the barrel, and just leave it down inside the insides of the gun. The water, per oxide, and alcohol evaporate, leaving the oil soap behind, which infuses any powder fouling with oil. Fouling infused with oil will not absorb additional moisture from the air, so there is no rust.

Been doing it for years.

rodwha
February 9, 2014, 12:35 AM
Is the Murphy's Mix just a cleaning formula? I'm guessing it's good for short term (<1-2 months) of protection assuming a humid environment?

frontiergander
February 9, 2014, 12:50 AM
Moose Milk:
1 shot glass of water soluble oil "Ballistol"
1 shot glass of Pinesol
2 shots hydrogen peroxide - 3% solution
20 shots of water

BowerR64
February 9, 2014, 03:16 AM
Moose Milk:
1 shot glass of water soluble oil "Ballistol"
1 shot glass of Pinesol
2 shots hydrogen peroxide - 3% solution
20 shots of water
What is the pourpose of everything?

Like why add the pinesol and the peroxide?

I kinda go back and forth with the balastol/water mix and this stuff that came in a tompson center cleaning pack its a milky color. I dont know whats in the Tompson stuff but it cleans the BP very well then i use borebutter after i clean it up.

Noz
February 9, 2014, 10:01 AM
Driftwood has the right of it.

frontiergander
February 9, 2014, 11:35 AM
ballistol and water is main ingredient for the Dry patch lube system, not moose milk.

Pine sol i believe is just for a cleaner in the mix, a soapy cleaner.

Foto Joe
February 9, 2014, 11:57 AM
I've always mixed mine 1:1 with water.

Ballistol is a "non-toxic" mineral oil that was originally formulated from coal oil, I believe that has changed. Since I've had enough contact with toxic chemicals over the years and don't seek any more I would much rather use Ballistol and water for cleaning than solvents. If only it would work for smokeless.

VA27
February 9, 2014, 08:33 PM
It works fine for smokeless. Ballistol and water (1:7) is all I ever used to clean and lube a
Tokarev shot only with corrosive ammo. No rust, ever.

Driftwood Johnson
February 9, 2014, 08:41 PM
Is the Murphy's Mix just a cleaning formula? I'm guessing it's good for short term (<1-2 months) of protection assuming a humid environment?

I never tried dating it. When I clean a firearm that has been shot with Black Powder I use Murphy's Mix to clean it. Much less expensive than using straight Ballistol. The key to using Murphy's Mix is to slop plenty of it down inside the action, so that when the water and alcohol evaporate, the oily soap will be left behind. Then for good measure I work a little bit of straight Ballistol sown inside. With a revolver, a couple of q-tips will work it down through the hand window and the opening for the hammer. I only take my guns completely apart once a year or so to clean out all the black, oily gunk left down inside.

OcelotZ3
February 9, 2014, 09:25 PM
Ballistol isn't soluble in water, it emulsifies.

http://www.ballistol.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/MSDS_TECH_BIO.pdf

"Solubility in Water Not easily. Emulsifies."

savit260
February 9, 2014, 09:56 PM
I use a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and water for cleaning BP, and straight Ballistol for cleaning smokeless. Works very well.

Give the whole gun a wipe down with straight Ballistol when it's done.

Seems to work fine for me.

RPRNY
February 9, 2014, 10:03 PM
I use a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and water for cleaning BP, and straight Ballistol for cleaning smokeless. Works very well.

Give the whole gun a wipe down with straight Ballistol when it's done.

Seems to work fine for me.

I think 50/50 is a belt and braces approach and a 1:10 Ballistol to Water would work.just as well, but otherwise agree entirely with this.

BCRider
February 10, 2014, 08:47 PM
Would someone share the ratio of ballistol with water to clean and preserve my cap and ball revolver?

Many thanks.

Like the others I don't see the Ballistol and water mixture as a preservative. Oh sure, the water will evaporate and leave the oil but I don't see it as a good option instead of using straight Ballistol. Instead I see the Moose Milk or Murphy's Mix as more of a cleaning product for when a bucket and soap just isn't to be had.

For CLEANING I do the work in a bucket in the sink so I simply use moderately hot water with a small squirt of liquid dish soap. The water and soap go into a roughly 1 gallon wash up bucket. It's an old small size drywall mud bucket to be honest.

For the fixed barrel to frame Remingtons I fill the bucket up enough that the barrel is fully submerged to the forcing cone and no more. That soaks for a few minutes while the cylinder gets cleaned. Then the bore gets a nylon brush through it for a couple of passes and the barrel and press linkage is rinsed in hot water and toweled and patched dry immediately. The parts are then oiled with Ballistol. Or if I'm shooting again the next day or within the next month for sure then I just use Canola cooking oil.

I've got a few other tricks that I use for brushing out the parts with the soapy water. The cylinder is always a royal pain. But I found that bundling up a half dozen bristle style pipe cleaners and bending it into a "square root sign" shape works as a great brush for cleaning out the blind ended cylinder chambers. Again rinse with hot water than dry with paper towel and oil right away.

Do NOT let the parts soak in the hot soapy water for more than about 2 to 5 minutes tops. If you do there's an increased risk of finding that you got a coating of flash rust. If in doubt do the parts one at a time so you only soak the metal for a short time. Enough to soak into the fouling and lubricants used for lubing the bullets but not long enough to risk the flash rust issue.

hartcreek
February 10, 2014, 09:13 PM
Preserve it.......I keep most of mine loaded the others I just keep dry.

BowerR64
February 12, 2014, 12:31 AM
I understand why people dilute balastol with water because i find it a little to thick. IMO its better when its diluted a little with water i find it more managable.

Ive used it a few times without water but i dont like it near as much as i do when its mixed with water.

When i use it raw it tends to leave behind way to much oil for what i like. Wether its good or not i dont know but when its diluted and wiped off i like the amount of oil it leaves.

I feel im wasting it when i use it raw becasue i find i wipe more of it off to get the right amount to touch and handle.

Loyalist Dave
February 12, 2014, 01:35 PM
Twenty-five years ago Moose Milk was and still is:

One part Murphy's Oil Soap
One part hydrogen peroxide
One part 90% isopropyl rubbing alcohol

The 1973 version from MUZZLE LOADING SHOOTING AND WINNING WITH THE CHAMPIONS in an article by Welburn L. Terry, moose milk is:

1 oz. water soluable oil
1 oz. Lestoil (pine sol)
2 oz. hydrogen peroxide
12 oz. water

Ballistol looks milky when placed in water, but it is NOT the original "Moose Milk" by any means.

The first was a highly touted solvent for the living history folks who would fire between 20 and 40 blank rounds through their muskets, and thought they needed something to quickly disolve the huge amount of built-up crap. The other version was well known for target shooters.

Neither were rust preventatives.

According to Ballistol:

"Ballistol is not water soluble, Ballistol emulsifies with water. This means that Ballistol maintains its properties in the presence of water; water soluble would change the properties of the product. Ballistol will continue to prevent rust in the presence of water at only 5% Ballistol / water. When Ballistol is emulsified with water, and the moisture evaporates, Ballistol is left on the surface. Itís a simple test, stick a nail in a cup of water, stick another nail in a cup of 5% Ballistol / water. The nail in 5% Ballistol will not rust.

If you are seeing rust after cleaning with Ballistol, the firearm was not properly cleaned. Ballistol needs to be emulsified with water 25% Ballistol / 75% water to properly neutralize and flush the black powder residue. Once the firearm has been thoroughly flushed, go back over the entire firearm with straight Ballistol."

Patrick Palumbo
Washington Trading Co, Inc
BALLISTOL USA

So, folks who think that Ballistol is a viable substitute for the water soluable oil in the second formula are apparently operating under an incorrect assumption.

LD

BCRider
February 12, 2014, 02:37 PM
Dave, the big majority of water soluble oils I've run across turn milky in water as well. And milky suggests that they emulsified rather than dissolved. That doesn't stop them from labeling the product as "water soluble" or simply "soluble oil".

I said "big majority" above because I've got a big jug of coolant fluid concentrate in the shop that starts as a transparent pink liquid and when mixed at the recommended 30:1 ratio of water:coolant it stays clear and less pink. But with all the oddball synthetic stuff around these days I hesitate to assume that it's an oil. Mind you part of the claims for it is that it acts as to keep metal buildup/galling at bay and protects the machined parts from corrosion. So if it has those properties then it sure sounds like some sort of oil.

RPRNY
February 12, 2014, 04:06 PM
Oil, by its very nature, is not soluble in water.

If it floats, it's a duck (or a witch). If it dissolves in water, it's not an oil. Basic science from the Inquisition.

BowerR64
February 12, 2014, 04:26 PM
Oil, by its very nature, is not soluble in water.

If it floats, it's a duck (or a witch). If it dissolves in water, it's not an oil. Basic science from the Inquisition.
All oils are like that or just petrolium? Do natural oils do this?

Im not changing anything i know it works i can see it, if i dont use anything after the soap and water bath the gun wiill rust. If i use the water balastol mix it doesnt so wether the science is right or wrong i can see it works.

loose noose
February 12, 2014, 08:51 PM
I've used the Murphy's concoction for at least 40 years, Equal parts of Murphy's Soap Oil, rubbing alcohol, and hydrogen peroxide. I've hunted in the humid areas of UP Michigan, South Carolina, Missouri, in the snow as well as the rain. All I've ever cleaned my smoke poles with was that concoction, and within the last 20+ years wiped the bore with Thompsons bore butter. Never had any. Never had any rust in any of my BP guns.

RPRNY
February 12, 2014, 10:03 PM
All oils are like that or just petrolium? Do natural oils do this?

Im not changing anything i know it works i can see it, if i dont use anything after the soap and water bath the gun wiill rust. If i use the water balastol mix it doesnt so wether the science is right or wrong i can see it works.

All oils are insoluble in water. Water is a polar molecule, hydrocarbon chains are not and ne'r the twain shall mix.

As explained above, a 3:1 water:Ballistol mix will clean the gun and leave a protective coating of Ballistol behind. Carry on :)

Loyalist Dave
February 14, 2014, 08:53 AM
then why does the fellow from Ballistol say 1:3 parts of Ballistol to clean, followed by 100% Ballistol?

"Ballistol needs to be emulsified with water 25% Ballistol / 75% water to properly neutralize and flush the black powder residue. Once the firearm has been thoroughly flushed, go back over the entire firearm with straight Ballistol."


LD

BCRider
February 14, 2014, 03:17 PM
If I were at an event where hot running water is not readily available to allow washing and rinsing then I'd be all over either the Murphy's mixture or the Ballistol and water mix as a cleaner. For working with some from a bottle and some patches and rags it would be OK.

I think I'd prefer the Ballistol and water though since I like the idea that I've left some oil behind instead of soapy stuff.

Dave, I'm not sure why the guy said to follow up with 100% Ballistol other than perhaps recognition that most of us would dry patch and otherwise wipe off the water/Ballistol mix to aid in wiping away the fouling that is mixed in with the mixture.

Pete D.
February 14, 2014, 08:13 PM
there are probably as many recipes for solutions called Moose Milk as there are shooters.
The recipe that I use came from Paul Matthews book...Shooting the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle. Two ounces of a water soluble oil (doesn't have to be Ballistol), one ounce of Murphy's Oil Soap, thirteen ounces of water to make a pint.
Put water soluble oil in water and it turns white. Lots of folk call that moosemilk.
People add lots of things extra....witch hazel (an astringent for skin....works cause there's alcohol in it), alcohol (best used by itself), hydrogen peroxide (a reactive solution, unstable. most of its effectiveness is lost after a day.an oxidizer, it can promote rust.)

jgh4445
February 14, 2014, 09:51 PM
My recipe for moose milk is one part water, one part cleaning patch, one part cleaning jag, one part cleaning ( wiping) rod. If there is some type of soap available I'll use that too. If the water is hot, that is a plus ( dries faster). After using all of those parts, I run an oily patch over all the exposed metal and in the barrel. Repeat running a patch thru the barrel in about 3 days to make sure there isn't any rust I missed. Oil her up and wait for the next opportunity to get her dirty again. So far I've had no problems doing it this way. Don't have to buy anything and don't have to remember any formula. That's just my method. Use what ever works for you.

BowerR64
February 14, 2014, 09:52 PM
does moose milk take away from that dirty diaper smell?

Thats the only thing i cant stand about balastol is the smell.

RPRNY
February 14, 2014, 09:57 PM
does moose milk take away from that dirty diaper smell?

Thats the only thing i cant stand about balastol is the smell.

Ballistol? It has a vaguely minty smell.

rodwha
February 15, 2014, 12:54 AM
I love the smell of Ballistol! I've wondered how I can incorporate it into my deodorant and air freshener!

BowerR64
February 16, 2014, 01:58 PM
no way!

you guys must have something different then i have then because mine smells awful.

I dont smell any mint in mine at all. Mixing it with water seems to just bring the rotten smell more forward.

grter
February 24, 2014, 07:28 AM
Do these cleaning mixtures work equally well for Pyrodex and 777 or are they effective only for Black Powder.

Don McDowell
February 24, 2014, 08:45 AM
They'll work alright with all the subs except Bh209. Don't use anything that contains water when cleaning up after bh209.

RPRNY
February 24, 2014, 08:18 PM
Work well with BP subs too.

If you enjoyed reading about "Moose milk" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!