3 .45 cal Bullet Designs


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rodwha
February 8, 2014, 07:48 PM
These are the 3 designs I had Tom at Accurate Molds make for me, and I'm curious about any thoughts on the designs:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-170C-D.png

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C-D.png

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C-D.png

Note the 170C is shorter than a ball, and I'm hoping that my ROA can come close to the velocity of a ball.

The 195C is the length of a ball and is mostly designed with medium game in mind.

The 285C will be for critters that may want retribution if not put down immediately.

Thoughts?

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toolslinger
February 9, 2014, 09:58 AM
Yeah my thoughts are that they are right nifty and I want to try them all. Are you going o be selling them?

rodwha
February 10, 2014, 10:31 PM
Anyone think the pressures could get too high with a stout load of 3F Swiis, Olde E, or T7 in a repro?

Just thinking that the 195C, which will weigh a bit more (~215 grns?) when cast with pure lead, can still hold a ~40 grn charge behind it! That has to be some tremendous pressure!

I'm sure the ROA can handle it, but a repro? How would you know when to call it quits?

J-Bar
February 11, 2014, 11:39 AM
I am not a gunsmith nor a ballistician. My opinion is a seat of the pants guess. Always approach maximum loads cautiously. Excessive blowback through the nipples would be a sign of excess pressure. Hopefully it would show up before the cylinder came apart!

I don't think you will encounter excessive pressure in a reproduction percussion revolver made of modern steel using 2F or 3F powder under normal compression. There is a fixed amount of space in the chamber...the more lead you put in there, the less room there is for powder and that's a good thing. It mirrors the loading data for cartridges; heavier bullets are loaded with less powder because of their inertia, to prevent excessive pressures.

I don't know if you can cram 40 grains of powder into the chamber and I don't understand why it is important to you to achieve that "magic" number. I believe in folks having fun playing with their guns, but I don't understand the urge to make these guns into magnums. Whatever fits in there with normal compression should be OK.

I think its cool that you have bullets that you designed yourself. I expect the lube grooves will carry sufficient lube for a percussion handgun, but if you were to load those into cartridges for use in a rifle, they may run out of lube before they reach the end of the barrel. You could compensate for that with a lube cookie between the powder and the bullet of course. I also like a crimp groove in the bullets that I am going to use in rifle. So I am guessing you are planning to only use these in revolvers?

rodwha
February 11, 2014, 12:15 PM
"...the more lead you put in there, the less room there is for powder…"

I put more lead without taking up powder capacity though, which is the concern.

It's not important for me to be able to fill the chambers, but I am curious. And if it gave me better accuracy (for some strange reason) I'd be inclined to continue to do so.

I must admit that I do seem to like recoil and loud reports though. Huge clouds of smoke are cool too. But this isn't necessary.

Part of my concern is that I'll be inclined to go up in 5 grn increments until I can't, but also because I've had requests for some to try, which is what got me really considering this as their safety needs to be forefront.

I have no intentions on using these in rifles. At best I'd use them in a carbine handgun like the Buffalo Remington or a Pietta Colt with the longer barrel and stock. So at best maybe 12" of barrel.

rodwha
February 12, 2014, 02:56 PM
Anyone think the 285C (I'm guessing it will weigh ~315 grns with pure lead) traveling at 800 fps with 448 ft/lbs of energy would be lacking for shooting big hogs or black bears?

In essence I see this as a .45 Colt +P (non Ruger only) type load where most of the standard hunting loads with 250-255 grn bullets have low end 400's energy levels.

Would you feel under gunned trailing a big wounded hog that weighed 400 lbs with this?

Malamute
February 12, 2014, 10:21 PM
The 40 gr 200-ish gr bullet loads are in 44-40 power range. For a repro percussion gun, it may be crowding the margins, but it isn't a truly high pressure load by any means. I believe black powder 45 Colt loads (40 grs powder/250 grs lead) was running under 9000 cup in an old NRA reloading manual I have.

The heavier bullet will give better penetration than the others, but you're a fair bit under a black powder 38-55 level load, which isn't all that potent for shooting bears with. It will probably work, but I wouldn't get all excited by how tremendously powerful it is.

rodwha
February 12, 2014, 10:36 PM
Not powerful, but effective. I figure it has to do better than the 255 grn FN that has been noted to penetrate nose to tail through an adult hog. Sounds good, but how would that compare to something bigger, which is why I opted for heavier.

Quite frankly I see it as a bit above marginal as it has weight and meplat, but it's not a replacement for a magnum. But is a magnum necessary? It might be more comforting.

I've seen some claim 700 ft/lbs when using a Classic Ballistix cylinder, and I want one…eventually.

But I'm at a loss, and am working purely off of what little I know to be effective and theories… And so I ask. Thanks for an honest answer (I brew beer and get too many claps on the back when I'd prefer to hear what I could do to improve it).

Malamute
February 13, 2014, 02:12 PM
I think you're on the right track if you want to use traditional percussion guns, and the bullets should be better than the old 45 Colt bullets with the tiny flat point and rounded profile (the newer "cowboy" versions are not like the original bullet profile. The old type penetrated well but had little shock). Just keep in mind that making a careful shot is of greater importance than if you had more power and an easier to shoot gun like a rifle. Plenty of largish critters were killed with 44-40's and similar rounds, but when more powerful loads became available, most people went to them, and for good reason.

rodwha
February 13, 2014, 02:33 PM
I do wish I would have really thought more about the 285C and what it would likely weigh. I think I'd be better served by a bullet that weighed 285 cast in pure lead, which would give me slightly more powder capacity as well.

I was just excited to finally get the ball rolling, and I had bothered him a bit more with the other two designs enough as it was, and with him not knowing for sure that I was indeed intending on purchasing a mold, he grew tired of working for free. I joked and mentioned that he must have thought me a female with as indecisive as I had been.

I'm curious if this bullet's weight isn't on the opposite side of the effective spectrum. By that I mean a bullet's weight increase improves penetration performance up until a point at which time it has to begin declining. However, if/when I get a Classic Ballistix cylinder it would certainly be on the positive side.

Malamute
February 13, 2014, 08:10 PM
I think the heavy would be fine in a Dragoon. It's probably fine in the others you mentioned, but the Dragoons definately aren't lacking in powder space by any means. I charged mine with 50 grs with a round ball and still have room for probably 5 grains more.

I want to hunt some with mine, but want to use round balls, for historical interest.

rodwha
March 3, 2014, 09:51 PM
Just received my mold today! I'll be ordering handles for it on Friday along with some odds and ends. I'm anxious to get to casting!!!

Shipping was quick! And he didn't charge me what it cost him either (he spent more). It was also a little quicker than his estimated turn around time.

I'll definitely order from him again!

woodnbow
March 4, 2014, 06:14 PM
Rod, that 285 would be my first choice for hogs.. In any of the three sizes I'd make sure the nipples are relatively fresh Ampco's. The flash hole is smaller and you'll have less blowback compared to the stockers.

Elmer Keith did a lot of experimenting with a 300 grain bullet in the 45 Colt balloon head cases, getting a full 40 grains in there and using them on range bulls, deer and elk too I believe. He also blew the top three chambers off an original Colt SAA with such a load. One of the reasons he turned to the .44 Special for further magnum level experiments.

rodwha
March 4, 2014, 06:35 PM
I have replaced my stock nipples with ones from Track of The Wolf as they also have the hex head design, but are like Tresso's on the inside.

I'm hoping that with the generally shorter than average length I'll still get plenty of velocity. One of my concerns when considering this bullet was the point at which the weight becomes a hinderance to penetration.

I'd like to have my Ruger chambers deepened. One of these days…

I've been considering having another bullet that will be somewhere between the 195C and 285C that would allow seating in my Pietta '58. I'm guessing 240-260 grns. But I'm not sure I care enough as it would most likely be my Ruger that goes with me when hunting, although the Pietta is shorter.

I've also considered having the 170C hollow pointed.

woodnbow
March 5, 2014, 09:16 AM
That 285 should have a LOT of momentum, even at ~800 fps... I doubt there's a boar out there that will stop it. Hey, that could even be your next "project"! ;-)

jaxenro
March 5, 2014, 09:42 AM
Are lube grooves really worth it in a percussion revolver? Seems like a lube pill under the bullet would make more sense and fill the space for the groove with lead

rodwha
March 5, 2014, 09:44 AM
If those 6 chambers are all you'd potentially shoot, and more likely less, is any lube really necessary?

jaxenro
March 5, 2014, 02:14 PM
My point exactly yet every percussion revolver bullet design has them, except the originals

Think I will make some without grooves

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