Gen2 solvent trap + oilfilter and a form 1


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Sentryau2
February 8, 2014, 09:13 PM
I dont plan on doing this I am just curious. Would it be possible to take this https://cadizgunworks.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=67 and file out a form 1 (using a living legal trust) and then get oil filters and use it as a suppressor (would I have to have a single oil filter? Or could I just engrave a serial # on the adapter and use the filter untill it needed replaced and then just screw on a new one?
This seems like it would be more wallet friendly because from what ive seen the oil filters work just as well as an actual suppressor.

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dogtown tom
February 8, 2014, 10:48 PM
Sentryau2 I dont plan on doing this I am just curious. Would it be possible to take this https://cadizgunworks.com/store/inde...&product_id=67 and file out a form 1 (using a living legal trust) and then get oil filters and use it as a suppressor (would I have to have a single oil filter? Or could I just engrave a serial # on the adapter and use the filter untill it needed replaced and then just screw on a new one?
This seems like it would be more wallet friendly because from what ive seen the oil filters work just as well as an actual suppressor.
ATF takes the view that components or parts of a suppressor are considered NFA firearms on their own.

If you decide to replace the oil filter with a new one..........you fill out another Form 1 w $200 tax. REAL suppressors that have replaceable wipes, baffles, etc can be sent back to the manufacturer for replacement WITHOUT need for another form or tax stamp.
EDITED to add: if you look on that website, Cadiz offers a "Econocan" oil filter suppressor for $85...........you can send that back for replacement for the low, low price of $25..........I doubt that those oil filters will last more than a few hundred rounds vs a real suppressor and multiple thousands of rounds.

Frankly I can't understand why anyone would waste a nickel on these "solvent traps". The ;);) that the manufacturers of the solvent trap manufacturers give you should be enough to dissuade even the most gullible or ignorant gun owner. Unfortunately, there are plenty of gullible, ignorant gun owners who think these are a great idea. If you want a "field expedient" suppressor......stick a cantaloupe over the barrel.....you'll look just as stupid for less than $2.

AK103K
February 8, 2014, 11:02 PM
If you want a "field expedient" suppressor......stick a cantaloupe over the barrel.....you'll look just as stupid for less than $2.
Stupid, yes, for thinking that would work.

The oil filter "suppressors" are actually quite effective, even on full auto guns. If you doubt it, have a look around Youtube.

Midwest
February 9, 2014, 10:25 AM
Maybe the Mods should put this in the NFA Section

Frank Ettin
February 9, 2014, 01:19 PM
Moved to NFA.

hentown
February 10, 2014, 03:38 PM
Per previous Cadiz threads, you don't have to pay the transfer tax every time you change the filter, but you do have to return the unit to the manufacturer for a replacement @ $25.

Mike1234567
February 10, 2014, 05:15 PM
How would anyone ever know if the "filter" was replaced? It's the adapter that has the serial number, right?

ole farmerbuck
February 10, 2014, 05:28 PM
How would anyone ever know if the "filter" was replaced? It's the adapter that has the serial number, right?
Thats what I thought. But, I've been wrong before.

hentown
February 15, 2014, 05:33 PM
Thats what I thought. But, I've been wrong before.
__________________

And, you're wrong again! :evil:

Mike1234567
February 15, 2014, 06:04 PM
And, you're wrong again! :evil:
How so?

ole farmerbuck
February 15, 2014, 06:59 PM
There is an older fellow on you tube shooting with a filter. He's the one that I 'thought' said the adapter has to be registered because it has the serial number.

dogtown tom
February 15, 2014, 09:19 PM
AK103K Quote:
If you want a "field expedient" suppressor......stick a cantaloupe over the barrel.....you'll look just as stupid for less than $2.

Stupid, yes, for thinking that would work.
Thinking it would work? No sir.....I KNOW it works.;) So does taping a 2liter plastic bottle to the muzzle.

Both are cheaper than buying the jail bait adapters from Cadiz.





ole farmerbuck There is an older fellow on you tube shooting with a filter. He's the one that I 'thought' said the adapter has to be registered because it has the serial number.
And this is the reason Cadiz should be ashamed of themselves......selling their wink wink nudge nudge "solvent traps" to those who are ignorant of Federal law.
No one except the most gullible would ever think that a "solvent trap" in the form of a $40-90 thread adapter and an oil filter is a good way to clean your gun.

While you can get a thread adapter "serialized" .............it is the ENTIRE device that is considered a suppressor by ATF......all the parts in the filter, the thread adaptor and the oil filter cover.

Want to replace any single part yourself? $200 and an approved Form 1.
Of course you can send it back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement of the oil filter.

Mike1234567
February 15, 2014, 09:25 PM
Thinking it would work? No sir.....I KNOW it works.;) So does taping a 2liter plastic bottle to the muzzle.

Both are cheaper than buying the jail bait adapters from Cadiz.






And this is the reason Cadiz should be ashamed of themselves......selling their wink wink nudge nudge "solvent traps" to those who are ignorant of Federal law.
No one except the most gullible would ever think that a "solvent trap" in the form of a $40-90 thread adapter and an oil filter is a good way to clean your gun.

While you can get a thread adapter "serialized" .............it is the ENTIRE device that is considered a suppressor by ATF......all the parts in the filter, the thread adaptor and the oil filter cover.

Want to replace any single part yourself? $200 and an approved Form 1.
Of course you can send it back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement of the oil filter.
Again... HOW would anyone know if the FILTER was replaced??

AK103K
February 15, 2014, 09:52 PM
Thinking it would work? No sir.....I KNOW it works. ;)
The "cantaloupe" would be quite messy, and also quite ineffective. Potatoes dont work either.

The 2 liter bottle might work for a couple of rounds with a .22, but anything larger, you better be wearing your ear plugs, even for the first round. The only advantage over the mellon is, its just not as messy.

Wait now, your not using them full of pop are you? If so, never mind about the last messy part. :)

I too KNOW the above to be fact. ;)


Both are cheaper than buying the jail bait adapters from Cadiz.
They are all jail bait when hung on a gun without a tax stamp, regardless of cost or quality.

frankenstein406
February 15, 2014, 09:55 PM
Again... HOW would anyone know if the FILTER was replaced??
Do you put the garbage on the curb?

Sentryau2
February 15, 2014, 10:43 PM
Its not "jail bait" just like suppressor mounts are not jail bait, its a flash hider cut with external threads. Screwing a oil filter on it to recycle solvents is perfectly fine. Its the intended use. So aslong as I "intend" to recycle solvents its no problem.

Elkins45
February 16, 2014, 10:30 AM
Its not "jail bait" just like suppressor mounts are not jail bait, its a flash hider cut with external threads. Screwing a oil filter on it to recycle solvents is perfectly fine. Its the intended use. So aslong as I "intend" to recycle solvents its no problem.
Why would ANYONE use an oil filter to trap solvents when a 20 ounce soft drink bottle can be had for free? Why specifically did someone think, "Gosh, I really wish I had an oil filter hung on the muzzle to catch all these solvents (and patches) going down the bore"? And furthermore, why did they only want it to work on rifles with threaded muzzles?

Short answer is that nobody thought that. What they thought is, "How can I paint some thin veneer of legality onto my illegal silencer"?

As has been said before: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

R.W.Dale
February 16, 2014, 11:05 AM
Just to further muddy the waters I've not looked into it into TOO much depth but supposedly there are 1/2-28 threaded oil filters out there.

1858
February 16, 2014, 11:20 AM
It would be interesting to see some data using oil filters as suppressors including weight, dB reduction, accuracy, precision, poi shift and usable life.

Anmut
February 16, 2014, 11:46 AM
If a guy was a prepper he might order a few of these and have a bunch of unused oil filters laying around. Not for use now because of legalities, but if SHTF - well as the the old Farside cartoon said...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd230/bobert_051/FarSideFishing.jpg

Mike1234567
February 16, 2014, 11:47 AM
Do you put the garbage on the curb?
No. :)

Sentryau2
February 16, 2014, 12:21 PM
Just because you dont like something, dosent make it stupid. The ATF thought it was reasonable enough to allow it to continue.

AK103K
February 16, 2014, 12:43 PM
The ATF thought it was reasonable enough to allow it to continue.
Im always skeptical about the ATF being "reasonable". They generally arent, and when they appear to be, the little hairs on the back of my neck usually start to stand up.

Just because its OK with them today, doesnt mean it will be tomorrow, as they have demonstrated on a number of occasions in the past.

I often think that their apparent reasonableness, is nothing more than the start of a self incriminating set up. They bide their time, pay attention to whats going on, all the while feeding out the rope.

Im still amazed that they are letting this "adapter" go, when they already put them into the NFA back in the late 80, early 90's with a similar item meant to allow a 2 liter pop bottle to be attached to the threaded barrel of a MAC. Its even more amazing since the oil filters "actually work" as a suppressor.

Gordon
February 16, 2014, 02:50 PM
I remember in the late 80s when the ATF seized the records of auto sear companies and spent a few years tracking them all down, word to the wise.

Anmut
February 16, 2014, 04:06 PM
I would think a guy could go to a hardware store and make an adapter that threads on to an oil filter. Or just ream and thread your own... this isn't rocket science.

hentown
February 16, 2014, 06:55 PM
The oil filter solvent traps are sold cheaply on Amazon. Cadiz sells their setups as NFA items. To answer the question about how anybody would now...blah, blah, blah, if you're out in the middle of nowhere, nobody would know.

If you buy the adapters from Amazon; don't pay the tax, do the form 4, etc., and shoot through the filter with no witnesses, nobody will know about that, either.

From Cadiz FAQ, both the adapter and the filters are serial #d.

"The Econo-Can Suppressor adapter part is round in shape. It also has 1/2x 28 threads and threads on to an oil filter for the purpose of shooting though the oil filter and working as a silencer. The adapter part also has the manufacturer name Cadiz Gun Works, Jewett, OH. Each Econo-Can Suppressor has a unique serial numbered that corresponds to respective the oil filter. The Econo-Can Suppressor is a NFA registered product and transfers on a form 3 to your FFL/SOT dealer. Your ATF Form 4 will transfer the registration to you."

newfalguy101
February 16, 2014, 06:58 PM
If you go to Caldez website, it CLEARLY states that the Filter IS serialized and must be returned to them each time it needs replaced............in reality, not a particularly cost effective way to go in my opinion

R.W.Dale
February 16, 2014, 08:49 PM
If you go to Caldez website, it CLEARLY states that the Filter IS serialized and must be returned to them each time it needs replaced............in reality, not a particularly cost effective way to go in my opinion


Assuming you ever use the original filter.

Devils advocate here

WestKentucky
February 16, 2014, 09:08 PM
not to butt into a good "how dumb is this" thread...but im gonna do it right here...Suppose the oil filter DOES do what is supposed to do, and lasts an entire lifetime. Great...that just means that you have the rest of your life to not see wht your shooting at cause theres a friggin oil filter in the way. So, now if the fine folks at Doomaflotchies Solvent Traps (wink) and such decide to cut the side out of a fram and weld on a flat plate so you can see to shoot maybe it wouldnt be as bad.

R.W.Dale
February 16, 2014, 09:15 PM
not to butt into a good "how dumb is this" thread...but im gonna do it right here...Suppose the oil filter DOES do what is supposed to do, and lasts an entire lifetime. Great...that just means that you have the rest of your life to not see wht your shooting at cause theres a friggin oil filter in the way. So, now if the fine folks at Doomaflotchies Solvent Traps (wink) and such decide to cut the side out of a fram and weld on a flat plate so you can see to shoot maybe it wouldnt be as bad.


Oil filters come in many diameter. Some quite small. An ar15 based platform would have no problem with such an arrangement due to the sight axis being so high above the bore.

IMO this systems grip on legality is tenuous at best. Even though the manufacturer states the oil filter is serialized and must be sent in for service I would be SHOCKED if they've serviced more than a half dozen units.

AK103K
February 16, 2014, 09:26 PM
Great...that just means that you have the rest of your life to not see wht your shooting at cause theres a friggin oil filter in the way.
I have a suppressor mounted on one of my Glocks. It blocks the sights, and I dont have the higher suppressor sights on the gun. They really arent necessary, as long as you can shoot with both eyes open.

Works on the same principal as the old Armson OEG, the original "red dots". Your right eye sees the dot/sights, your left eye the target, and your brain superimposes them, without thought. I can make head shots on a photo silhouette at 25 yards shooting that way without any troubles. That filter "in the way" wont stop you from making good hits.

dogtown tom
February 16, 2014, 11:01 PM
AK103K Quote:
Thinking it would work? No sir.....I KNOW it works.

The "cantaloupe" would be quite messy, and also quite ineffective.
You are "quite" wrong.


hentown The oil filter solvent traps are sold cheaply on Amazon. Cadiz sells their setups as NFA items.....
Not true, only the complete "setup" (serialized adaptor and filter on a Form 3)
The EXACT same adaptor is also for sale without NFA registration.

AK103K
February 16, 2014, 11:11 PM
You are "quite" wrong.
Just out of curiosity, but what pray tell are you shooting that a melon will "suppress"? Airsoft or Paintball?

crazy-mp
February 16, 2014, 11:32 PM
I would think a guy could go to a hardware store and make an adapter that threads on to an oil filter. Or just ream and thread your own... this isn't rocket science.

People are too lazy to go to a parts store and get freeze plugs or fender washers and make their own that's why oil filter adapters are taking off, who cares how stupid it looks and legalities.

Walkalong
February 17, 2014, 07:33 AM
oil filter adapters are taking off, who cares how stupid it looks and legalities.
Well, for starters, we at THR care a great deal about legalities. Actually advocating illegal behavior here is against the rules and carries penalties. That quote is pretty close to doing so.

Talking about and debating a behavior is one thing, but advocating it is in a whole nother league.

Suppressors are illegal without the paperwork, and we do not condone either doing it or advocating it.

just to be clear.

hentown
February 17, 2014, 08:29 AM
I thought my most recent post regarding Cadiz pretty much covered what they sell and under what circumstances. Maybe I assumed too much.

Amazon does sell solvent oil filter trap adapters...cheap. They can also be found at gun shows.

I'd prefer the real deal, a genuine suppressor originally designed as a suppressor, for my use.

dogtown tom
February 17, 2014, 09:35 PM
AK103K Quote:
You are "quite" wrong.

Just out of curiosity, but what pray tell are you shooting that a melon will "suppress"? Airsoft or Paintball?
.22 Long Rifle out of a Ruger 10/22.

crazy-mp
February 17, 2014, 11:06 PM
Quote:
oil filter adapters are taking off, who cares how stupid it looks and legalities.
Well, for starters, we at THR care a great deal about legalities. Actually advocating illegal behavior here is against the rules and carries penalties. That quote is pretty close to doing so.

Talking about and debating a behavior is one thing, but advocating it is in a whole nother league.

Suppressors are illegal without the paperwork, and we do not condone either doing it or advocating it.

just to be clear.

But the ;););););););););) are ok? I guess I didn't start with hypothetically if a person was to...

As a licensed FFL/SOT I think there are a lot of people playing with fire when it comes to these products. Sooner or later the ATF will make a poster child out of somebody using these products illegally, its not a matter of if, but when.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gen2 solvent trap + oilfilter and a form 1" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!