Conical Bullet Mold (Revolvers)


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whughett
February 17, 2014, 10:29 AM
From Winchester Sutler I purchase a Rapine .454215 two cavity mold.
Intended to use these in my 1860 Army and Walker. Turns out they are too long and will not fit under the ram area. They work real well in the ROA so nothing lost.

Would like to try conicals in my other guns, aforementioned and the Navy Arms Remington 1868 in .36 cal. ( This gun works best with a .380)

I don't like to buy bullets as just a few hundred of self cast offsets the cost of a mold.

What conical molds are shooters on this forum using for 44 cal or 36 cal bullets. I assume the mold would have to throw a conicial weighing less than 215 grains,( for 44's).

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rodwha
February 17, 2014, 11:41 AM
I was able to finagle a Kaido 240 grn FN bullet in my Pietta Remington '58, and these are notorious for having conical issues. That bullet is .615" OAL.

It seems the most common conical cast and used would be the Lee (200 grns).

But there are a few out there that are short enough. BigLube makes 2 (150 grn and 210 grn). Accurate has several different types that ought to work.

If you are looking for some weight I had Accurate make me a .45 cal bullet that was the same length as a ball (.460") and it weighs 195 grns. I've yet to receive the mold as I ordered it ~2 weeks ago.

swathdiver
February 17, 2014, 01:57 PM
The Kaido .380 conical works great in my Pietta Belt Model Remington, just as accurate as round ball. They are 140 grains.

Patocazador
February 17, 2014, 03:41 PM
I shoot 200 gr. REALs out of my ROA. A Lee mold only costs $20 from TOW.

EljaySL
February 17, 2014, 05:24 PM
I'm really happy with the Lee mold http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1198/1/LEE-90382

I haven't tried their one for .36
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1198/1/LEE-90378

The base is smaller than the middle, and just slips in and keeps everything straight. The middle bit's bigger and will squish in as needed. In my 1858 I was really surprised to see with the right load the conicals are more accurate than round balls. The right load's pretty stout - I don't have the # in front of me but it was 5-10 grains over the load that's most accurate with balls.

MCgunner
February 17, 2014, 05:34 PM
i have a .454 and a .457 Lee 220 grain conical mold and a .454 RB mold. My 5.5" Pietta '58 much prefers RB over 30 grains Pyrodex with cornmeal filler. The ROA shoots anything well. I like the Lee conicals a lot, but in the Remmy, I continue to shoot the RB. Besides, it uses less lead, thus more economical.

These bullets will seat under the gun's ram, but I pull the cylinder, usually, and us a press. Faster.

EljaySL
February 17, 2014, 06:49 PM
I use a press as well. Just less fiddly.

BowerR64
February 17, 2014, 10:06 PM
Ill probably wind up using a press. I think i could get more accurate loads with a press.

I think this is one more advantage to accuracy specially with powders like T7 wich are finiky about how hard its packed.

I think with a press you could use marks or use something to stop the ram so that every load is the same.

Ive tried conicals on a few of my revolvers, the remingtons seem pretty good with conicals. Ive yet to have an issue loading a conical in those. The colts are a little more tricky, the 51 i have seems to take the conicals fine the 60 i could only get a conical in when the cylinder was in just the right place. This is with the lee 200gr 2 ring conical with the bottom smaller then the top.

kituwa
February 17, 2014, 11:44 PM
It is not hard to open up the cutout with a dremmel. I have did several of my guns that way and you cant even tell it was done just looking at them. I can load the 240 kaido without any problems now on my 1860 and my rem.The 51 is not as easy since the cutout is only on one side so you cant line the bullet up with your fingers from both sides. From what i understand an original had bigger cutouts than the repo's do anyway. That makes sense being they were made for conical bullets that were almost always over 200 grains and a lot more pointy than modern conicals. Another thing that helps on Remingtons is to reshape the end of the loading ram so that it does not deform the end of the bullets.The end of mine when i got it looked like it was made to make dumb dumb bullets,lol.It deformed them real bad. Now the way i have it shaped it does not deform a conical or round ball at all.when you reshape the ram it also shortens it a little bit witch also helps make room to load conicals as the stock ram usually does not go completly up out of the cutout with the lever latched in place.

rodwha
February 18, 2014, 12:03 AM
Mind going into detail about reshaping your ram along with a pic?

I've considered doing something about my ram faces as well since the conicals I like to use are all FN designs. The Ruger doesn't seem to mar them too badly but it does round the edges a bit.

kituwa
February 18, 2014, 12:23 AM
I used a grinding wheel that was about an inch across and an 8th inch thick.I took the ram out and just turned it between my fingers as i lightly ground the end. It made a perfect rounded cone on the end. Use a round ball and check it once in a while till it looks like it fits the ball well.That shape seems to fit perfect with the Lee 200 grain too. The Kaido flatnose did not round off at all but they are a good bit harder than soft lead and it prolly why. I guess f you have problems with it rounding soft lead flat nose bullets you could just shape the end of the ram flat. You could buy a replacement ram and do it to fit round balls, they are not hard to change out.If you shoot cast round ball and shoot sprue up i dont thing the flat end ram would deform a ball unless you were really compressing a load a lot.Another thing in loading conicals is ,,my chambers are boared .450 to match my bore so conicals all load a lot easier than the undersize chambers that these guns usually come with.Even the hard Kaido bullets load very nice.I can even get 40 grains of T7 behind the 240gr Kaido. You know you are not shooting a toy with a load like that,lol.

kituwa
February 18, 2014, 12:33 AM
If your really feeling frisky, you can load one of those 30 gr pyrodex pellets, they are hot! , way hotter than 30 grs of loose pyrodex. Then add 10 grains of T7 or old eye , it will fill in around the pellet and the hole in the center of the pellet. This load does not take up a lot of room in the chamber so leaves plenty of space for a conical. Hold on tight! , LoL

whughett
February 18, 2014, 08:22 AM
I'm really happy with the Lee mold http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1198/1/LEE-90382

I haven't tried their one for .36
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1198/1/LEE-90378

The base is smaller than the middle, and just slips in and keeps everything straight. The middle bit's bigger and will squish in as needed. In my 1858 I was really surprised to see with the right load the conicals are more accurate than round balls. The right load's pretty stout - I don't have the # in front of me but it was 5-10 grains over the load that's most accurate with balls.
Looks like I'll give this a try. Right now I am entertaining extended stay family escaping the frozen north for a few weeks. Later in March I'll be able to get back to the guns.
Thanks
Harv

rodwha
February 18, 2014, 11:56 AM
The rounding I've noticed isn't really all that bad, and I do often use a lot of seating force.

I'd almost need to do it to my Pietta '58's rammer as, like you mentioned, it protrudes into the loading window a bit much. It will load the 2 lighter bullets I'll be casting, but it sure would be nice to be able to load something bigger/heavier. I am actually considering (further down the road) having another mold made to create something bigger just for it, but I'm at a loss for what I'd want/need, and whether or not it would work well with a slow twist.

MCgunner
February 20, 2014, 05:52 PM
If your really feeling frisky, you can load one of those 30 gr pyrodex pellets, they are hot! , way hotter than 30 grs of loose pyrodex. Then add 10 grains of T7 or old eye , it will fill in around the pellet and the hole in the center of the pellet. This load does not take up a lot of room in the chamber so leaves plenty of space for a conical. Hold on tight! , LoL

Interesting. I might pick some of those pellets up and chronograph 'em in my ROA loaded this way. Don't know about shooting 'em in my steel framed Remmy, but it'd probably handle 'em fine. I'm betting accuracy in the Remmy would be non-existent, though. It just doesn't like conicals.

BowerR64
February 21, 2014, 05:46 AM
I have a system i stick with when loading to keep me from dry balling. I leave the lever down till the next chamber is ready to press the bullet in.

With my system i load from the side, place the ball then rotate it under the ramrod.

I dont have any issues with the 51 or the 58 but the 60 i have a little trouble with balls and conicals i have to force it under the ramrod opening before i can even get it started. This has caused problems in the past. You can rotate the cylinder to far then it clicks, once it clicks the cylinder cant be rotated back. If you have gone to far sometimes the ramrod hits the top of the chamber and you cant fully seat the ball plus the ball wont rotate around past the forcing cone. Your only option is to pull the wedge a real PITA when this happens.

Ive decided not to shoot conicals in the 60

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=195243&stc=1&d=1392979536

I like the design of the 51 better then the 60, i even prefer the smaller sloppy ramrod over the 60.

rodwha
February 21, 2014, 10:47 AM
I also load mine the way you described so as not to have problems. Works well.

I'm curious what it is about your '60 that gives you problem. I would have thought it possibly due to the height, but you mentioned problems with balls as well.

Is your '60 a Pietta? On my Pietta '58 I see that the frame is designed in a way that tries to push the projectile away. A little finagling is in order to seat a conical as a ball will rest back into its place after the protrusion of the frame angle is passed.

I'm really considering doing something about that, but don't want to need to reblue it. We'll see how it does with the bullet mold I ordered...

BowerR64
February 21, 2014, 07:31 PM
I also load mine the way you described so as not to have problems. Works well.

I'm curious what it is about your '60 that gives you problem. I would have thought it possibly due to the height, but you mentioned problems with balls as well.

Is your '60 a Pietta? On my Pietta '58 I see that the frame is designed in a way that tries to push the projectile away. A little finagling is in order to seat a conical as a ball will rest back into its place after the protrusion of the frame angle is passed.

I'm really considering doing something about that, but don't want to need to reblue it. We'll see how it does with the bullet mold I ordered...
I think it might be because the Colt has such a large arbor they have to put more meat around the barrel where the arbor fits in. Or maybe the cylinder isnt as big around as the 51 or the 58? Im not sure these are all .44s

I have one 60 thats a Euro arms, the brass frame is a CVA and the last one i think its a 61 or a navy pietta its the only one of the 3 colts i have with the longer grip i forgot what it is but its a pietta.

They are all 3 really tight around the wedge over the chambers.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=195261&stc=1&d=1393029094

rodwha
February 21, 2014, 08:15 PM
Is your '58 a Pietta?

On my Pietta '58 it's a sharp edge that stands in the way. I made a video showing this:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=742677

It seems similar to the way it pushed your conical over...

TheRodDoc
February 22, 2014, 02:03 AM
You guys need to load them in a different way. The conical isn't supposed to be put in where you have it pictured. It goes in under the ram.


Place hammer on halfcock and pour powder in one chamber as you normally do.

Then cock gun fully and let the hammer back down completly. This locks that powder charged chamber directly under the rammer.

Now place conical in from back side (wedge side) of gun base first. As base starts into chamber, tip the nose of the bullet up under ram.

Unlatch rammer amd let it down on bullet nose with it's own weight and wiggle bullet with fingers slightly to make sure it is centered in ram.
Then ram it in. (if it still does not fit in barrel cutout then you need to change the shape of the bullet)

Then while the cylinder is still locked, pour in powder for next chamber, then fully cock gun and again let hammer down completely for next conical. And etc.

I had no lead conicals to show so I used a jacketed 45 cal. 230 grain just for pictures which I don't want to ram on down.

whughett
February 22, 2014, 09:13 AM
You guys need to load them in a different way. The conical isn't supposed to be put in where you have it pictured. It goes in under the ram.


Place hammer on halfcock and pour powder in one chamber as you normally do.

Then cock gun fully and let the hammer back down completly. This locks that powder charged chamber directly under the rammer.

Now place conical in from back side (wedge side) of gun base first. As base starts into chamber, tip the nose of the bullet up under ram.

Unlatch rammer amd let it down on bullet nose with it's own weight and wiggle bullet with fingers slightly to make sure it is centered in ram.
Then ram it in. (if it still does not fit in barrel cutout then you need to change the shape of the bullet)

Then while the cylinder is still locked, pour in powder for next chamber, then fully cock gun and again let hammer down completely for next conical. And etc.

I had no lead conicals to show so I used a jacketed 45 cal. 230 grain just for pictures which I don't want to ram on down.
Many thanks TheRodDoc. That works. Looks like all I needed was some instruction on the proper techniques of loading the bullet.
BTW this Rapine .454215 throws a bullet shaped like a Bishops hat that has a very sharp nose with an OAL of .676. The bullet shown in post #16 looks like a standard round nose.

LivewireBlanco
February 22, 2014, 11:41 AM
Brilliant!

BowerR64
February 22, 2014, 07:00 PM
You guys need to load them in a different way. The conical isn't supposed to be put in where you have it pictured. It goes in under the ram.


Place hammer on halfcock and pour powder in one chamber as you normally do.

Then cock gun fully and let the hammer back down completly. This locks that powder charged chamber directly under the rammer.

Now place conical in from back side (wedge side) of gun base first. As base starts into chamber, tip the nose of the bullet up under ram.

Unlatch rammer amd let it down on bullet nose with it's own weight and wiggle bullet with fingers slightly to make sure it is centered in ram.
Then ram it in. (if it still does not fit in barrel cutout then you need to change the shape of the bullet)

Then while the cylinder is still locked, pour in powder for next chamber, then fully cock gun and again let hammer down completely for next conical. And etc.

I had no lead conicals to show so I used a jacketed 45 cal. 230 grain just for pictures which I don't want to ram on down.
I guess that would work i mean using wads and bore butter has about as many steps so it wouldnt be a whole lot different.

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