Where'd The Hogs Go ?


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BulletBait1
February 18, 2014, 07:47 PM
Sorry if this is a rethread.
Kansas has placed feral hogs on the "endangered species list". Somehow the hog counters have come up with less thAn 400 statewide, yet Missouri lists 50,000 to 75,000 and Oklahoma at 1.7 million. Perhaps the Feds need to ask Kansas about securing borders. I was getting all excited watching the Pigman Series and other hog hunting programs and using my seniors lifetime Kansas hunting license. I've read Tennessee has banned hog hunting also. Not all that eager paying non resident tag fees.

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BigBore44
February 18, 2014, 08:13 PM
Bullet,
I didn't know that feral animals could be put on endangered species lists. That just seems stupid to me. Will they do the same thing if zebra mussels or Asian carp start to die off? Anyways, if Kansas did do that, they are idiots. It's an invasive species that decimates crop lands and will push out your deer due to competition for food. The deer will lose. They don't even have a chance. My bet, is that they are trying to establish a viable, hunt-able, population for revenue.

Unfortunately, Oklahoma has ridiculous out of state hunting license fees. But give it time. Our 1.7 million hogs will make it to you all to soon. And then the Kansas DNR will wish they had not done such a foolish thing as to put an INVASIVE species on an "endangered" list.

RPRNY
February 18, 2014, 08:59 PM
I think that merits review. A feral species cannot be "endangered". There may be other reasons for curtailing hog hunting, not that I can think of one, but species "endangerment " isn't one of them.

TN ill made decision to end open season feral hog hunting and pursue culling by others means arose from the not entirely baseless finding that the hog population expanded under open season hunting as hogs were "transplanted" to create hunting opportunities. When that expansion is shown to multiply without hunting, the DNR will have to change its tune.

KS may be making a similar mistake thinking that regulated pest control will be more "effective". Farmers will pay the price for that.

BulletBait1
February 18, 2014, 09:20 PM
Sorry, endangered species was put in as sarcasm, didn't mean to stir the details pot.
Another minor detail is that landowners are allowed to kill hogs on their property. My whole point was why such low numbers with overpopulation in contiguous states.

Lloyd Smale
February 19, 2014, 07:17 AM
could be the terrian and food is better in the neihboring state or that the farmers and hunters in your state took after them a bit more agressively

jrdolall
February 19, 2014, 08:33 AM
I have hunted in Kansas and there were 400 hogs on the ranch I hunt.

alsaqr
February 20, 2014, 08:30 AM
Unfortunately, Oklahoma has ridiculous out of state hunting license fees.


This is very true. However, a non-resident does not need an OK hunting license to hunt hogs on private property in OK.

http://www.eregulations.com/oklahoma/hunting/small-game-hog-regulations/

The people who run the OK Wildlife Dep't. have aided and abetted in the spread of wild hogs. We are not allowed to use a centerfire rifle to hunt wild hogs on the WMAs outside of at deer season. Then the panjandrums at OK Wildlife hire helicopters at great expense to control wild hogs in those same WMAs.

OK has laws against transplanting wild hogs. Sadly, those laws are ignored. People catch wild hogs and buy them at stock sales for release into the wild. OK has proliferation of unregulated hog hunting "ranches" that are allowed to buy hogs and release them. Two of my hunting properties are over-run with wild hogs because owners of hog hunting "ranches" released wild hogs.

One "ranch" owner claimed to have 10,000 acres of private land leased for his hog and deer hunting clients. Fact is he had no land leased-not one acre. He dropped his clients off to trespass on privately owned land.

MCgunner
February 20, 2014, 05:42 PM
How could hogs be on any sort of list for wildlife? What is it about the word "feral" they don't understand? More pigs in Iowa than all the rest of the states combined. Every town there smells like pig poo.

sage5907
February 20, 2014, 09:34 PM
Quote BigBore44: "Unfortunately, Oklahoma has ridiculous out of state hunting license fees. But give it time. Our 1.7 million hogs will make it to you all to soon. And then the Kansas DNR will wish they had not done such a foolish thing as to put an INVASIVE species on an "endangered" list."

Sorry but I don't understand your point about Oklahoma hunting license fees. Any out of state hunter can buy any kind of hunting license in Oklahoma without going through a drawing and the fees are reasonable when you compare them to surrounding states. If anything is ridiculous about our prices it's that they are too low. Also, as previously said, anyone can hunt hogs on private land in Oklahoma any time of year without any kind of hunting license. It doesn't get any simpler than that. I don't know of any landowner who has wild hogs that wouldn't be very happy to get rid of them, be it in Oklahoma or Kansas!

BigBore44
February 21, 2014, 01:03 AM
Sage,
Arkansas's out of state license...$300 includes 6 deer tags, and two turkey tags.
Texas out of state $315 includes 5 deer tags. Not sure of turkey.
Now I know we are talking hogs here, I'm just making an example and need to check specifics with a Game Warden friend of mind. But I'm seeing OK out of state is $280 for each deer season. So $280 for archery, $280 for modern, and $280 for primitive. And those don't include any tags at $20 a piece. But lets just say the $280 is for all 3 seasons. Add $20 a tag for our limit of 5 deer which is included in Texas and Arkansas's price. And two turkey tags at $20 a piece. My math says 280+100+40=$420 to hunt the same animals. $120 more than Arkansas and $105 more than Texas.
Now, if the $280 isn't for all three seasons....dang. That just got REAL expensive.

rcmodel
February 21, 2014, 01:13 AM
Kansas actively controls them before they get out of control.

There have been at least two KF&G helicopter hunts to wipe out every trace of them around the public hunting grounds here.

Word is, would-be 'hunters' keep importing them from somewhere else and turning them loose in a very mis-guided stocking attempt.

Kansas F&G simply cannot allow that to happen, and are spending money needlessly to control the ones that wouldn't & shouldn't even be here in the first place.
Were it not for a few mis-guided 'hunters' who keep importing them where they don't belong in the first place.

We don't have any.
And that's a very good thing for the farmers, and for the native wildlife that would have to compete for food with them.

rc

BigBore44
February 21, 2014, 01:49 AM
^^Completely agree rc. Unfortunately, when our population decides it's coming to the sunflower state, they WILL establish a population. Though most likely in the southeastern part of the state only. Your terrain and vegitation will be a big advantage in population control. Oklahoma, Arkansas and Missouri have little hope.

sage5907
February 21, 2014, 10:33 AM
BigBore44, since the topography of Arkansas and eastern Oklahoma are similar I'm not aware that a lot of hunters go from one state to the other to hunt. In the past there were Kansas deer hunters who hunted in Oklahoma but we could not go to Kansas to hunt deer. That created some resentment. You make a good point about Oklahoma charging for each license, but on the other hand I don't see very many hunters who would do more than one out of state hunt each year. For a hunter who wants to shoot several animals wild hog hunting is definitely fun.

BigBore44
February 21, 2014, 07:29 PM
Sage,
I happen to know several who hunt Arkansas each year. I am one of them. Because it's cheaper for me to go to Arkansas to hunt with my brother than it is for him to come hunt his home state. Between his work and family he maybe hunts 10 times a year. And that's spread out over the course of the whole season. We have much better public hunting in eastern Oklahoma than western Arkansas. But due to cost, it's not fiscally responsible for him to pay the fees to come here. I've yet to see hogs in Arkansas. I know they are there. But because so much of Arkansas is private land that I don't have access to, I don't see them. I can walk out my door right now with 30 minutes of light left, drive 3 miles, and start walking (public land) and I'd bet a dollar to doughnuts I would see fresh sign within 10 minutes of walking.

sage5907
February 21, 2014, 08:25 PM
BigBore44, I know hindsight is not the answer to your brothers hunting but your brother should have bought a lifetime license when he lived in Oklahoma. I paid $125 for my license and I hunt without paying any annual fees.

As to wild hogs, I had an interesting experience with one on Wednesday evening. I installed a 42 inch hog wire fence around a feeder to keep the hogs out. The fence has T posts every 10 feet. I watched as a 60 pound hog walked up to the fence, stuck his nose under the bottom wire, lay down on his belly and scooted under. So much for the hog wire fence. There was just enough slack around the wire clips for him to stretch the fence. He got a 150 grain bullet through the shoulder for his trouble. I think those hogs can tear up an anvil.

BulletBait1
February 21, 2014, 09:10 PM
In the early nineties, gun show hunting topics turned to large flocks of hogs in and about Ft Scott. Really got my attention, but never followed thru. In the last twenty years there's been some strong eradication. I've seen what damage a few can do to stock ponds, gardens and food plots. I didn't understand the major numbers difference with area states. Guess my hog hunting is limited to watching that unstable Pigman.

788Ham
February 21, 2014, 09:31 PM
"Flocks of hogs" ? Hmmm, must be different types of hogs than I ever learned about. I've heard of the saying, "When pigs fly", this ain't those are they?

BigBore44
February 22, 2014, 04:58 AM
^^Lol, easy 788. But that is pretty funny. Lets take this opportunity to educate just a little.

BulletBait1,
Proper terminology for a group of hogs (other than "group") is "sounder". The "sounder" is typically comprised of 2-5 adult females called "sows" and their young "piglets". The sounder may also contain sub-adult or juvenile males. Adult males "boars" typically don't travel with the sounders. They are primarily isolationists unless they smell a female in season (in heat). Now, some of that you probably knew. Some you obviously didn't. But we all gotta learn sometime. Know you know, and knowings half the battle. As to the unstable PigMan (Brian Quaca), he is a little different for sure. I wish he would have just stuck with "shankin swine".

Sage5907,
I agree with you about the hindsight. But he and I are the only real hunters in our family. So lifetime licenses were never really thought about before he moved to Fayetteville for college and ended up staying.

As for the hogwire, I hate that stuff. It's cheap. And you have to set your posts to close together. Next time try a couple 16'x4' paneling. Heavier, sturdier, and lasts a lot longer. Plus it's much easier to install a one way door on should you ever decide to make a trap out of it.

sage5907
February 22, 2014, 09:11 AM
Oklahoma uses helicopters to reduce the population and one of the areas where I hunt was bombarded heavily last winter. From a distance it sounded like a war was going on. They took about 80 hogs in one day and I couldn't tell the difference in the numbers. There's too many trees and brush along the river bottoms for the hogs to hide.

BigBore44, I agree with your point about adding posts to the hogwire fence. I'll add wooden posts so I have a post every 5 feet. When they try to dig under I plan to fill each hole with a bag of quickcrete. The problem with the panels is they are expensive, hard to haul, and the hogs can still dig under.

BigBore44
February 22, 2014, 11:04 AM
80 sounds like a lot to some. All that was was our tax dollars paying for a couple wardens to go helohunting. But I like wardens and their jobs are awful and stressful. So I'm ok with them getting that reprieve. The flock was probably replenished in a month.

I hear your distaste for paneling. Heavy, yes. Expensive, yes. But it really is worth it. How many times you planning on "fixing" your fence before you could have bought some paneling. Where hog wire really drops the ball is in it's ability to be perfectly round (no, I know it can't be "perfectly" round). But give a hog a corner or a flat spot along a fence, and it will in turn give you a hole. I don't know what county or part of the state you live in, but our deer here in the northeast aren't needing any supplement feeding. So a deer feeder, now, is cash in the trash. Better to turn it into a hog feeder or a hog trap until about August.

JRH6856
February 22, 2014, 11:43 AM
You need to trench and bury the bottom edge of your fence about 12". Also, try reinforcing the bottom by threading rebar through the wire before burying it.

ApacheCoTodd
February 27, 2014, 05:56 PM
Sounds like an agenda driven "statistic" to me. The ranchers and farmers'll know better than the political counters.

AKElroy
March 1, 2014, 03:01 PM
Where'd The Hogs Go ?


My place, apparently. Not a pig to be seen for six weeks, and now this. Maybe you Kansasonians are exporting the vermin......

Carl N. Brown
March 1, 2014, 03:34 PM
I've read Tennessee has banned hog hunting also.

Tennessee is not protecting feral hogs.

Sport or big game hunting of feral hogs is banned. The state found that sport hunting on a big game license encouraged people to trap hogs and release them to stock areas where feral hogs or wild boar formerly did not range.

Varmint shooting feral hogs is promoted, especially by landowners, family, tenants and with a special permit designated agents acting for the landowner to rid the property of hogs. Special permit also allows use of hunting techniques banned on a big game license (hunting over bait, at night with lights, nukes from high orbit, etc.) The are certain wildlife magaement areas

And any feral hogs trapped live cannot leave the trap alive: they must be killed. To discourage release where feral hogs are not found.

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