What's YOUR favorite? Colt 1860 Army .44 or Remington 58 New Army .44 and why?


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avatarshots
February 21, 2014, 11:26 PM
I have both the Uberti 1860 Colt Army .44 and the Uberti Remington 58 New Army .44.
Both shoot straighter than any autoloader I own and both are fun to load and shoot. Neither one has problems with caps jamming or other issues I've seen others post about. Maybe I've been lucky :)
I'm just wondering what others think of either or both guns.
I'm thinking about putting Ivory grips on the Colt, and ebony grips on the Remmy, which is stainless steel.
Both shoot best with 457 round balls and 30gr of Pyrodex

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EljaySL
February 21, 2014, 11:45 PM
They're both great and both have pros and cons. I probably shoot the 1858 the most out of my cap and ball revolvers, but that may just be because I have more Colt variations and they tend to share the glory a bit.

avatarshots
February 21, 2014, 11:56 PM
LOL
I actually like the ease of swapping cylinders with the 58 and it's more modern look. I probably shoot the Remny more because of that, but I love em both

Jaymo
February 21, 2014, 11:59 PM
Don't have a 60.
Like my 58 a lot.
Like the way it looks.
Like the way it shoots.

jgh4445
February 22, 2014, 12:14 AM
Why the '60 of course! Such classic lines. Best looking revolver I've seen. Then again, there is the 61 Navy...

rodwha
February 22, 2014, 12:35 AM
The Ruger Old Army of course!

elhombreconnonombre
February 22, 2014, 02:16 AM
Remington due to ability to swap charged uncapped cylinders quickly without "disassembling".

Willie Sutton
February 22, 2014, 08:50 AM
Aesthetics? 1860 Colt.

Shooting out of the box? Zero hesitation, the 1858 Remmie. It's FAR more user friendly than the 1860, and avoids the manufacturing problems that render the common 1860 copies a "project in a box" before they can be made to shoot well.

That's with a matched pair of Uberti 1858 Remmies, a single Pietta with a .45 ACP cylinder, and an ASM Remmie on one hand and about 25 1860 Colt copies on the other in my collection, including several that are perfectly tuned and set up to shoot well. The most highy tuned ones shoot about as well as the pair of Uberti Remmies did right out of the box.


The above is for Italian copies. Find a Belgian Centennial/Centaure 1860 copy and things change.


Willie

.

toolslinger
February 22, 2014, 09:48 AM
The '60 for the simple fact that it fits my hand better. Remmies are excellent guns but they hurt my second finger just holding the dang thing. I keep threatening to open up the space behind the trigger guard, just haven't gotten to it.

44 Dave
February 22, 2014, 10:10 AM
I have both Uberti 1860s and Rem. new army. I shoot Colts most often and think they are easier to clean with the barrel off.
I have done work on my Colts, arbor, cap rake, and wedge work (finger Push to remove)
The "new Kid", my .36 '51 Pietta Navy is getting the most shooting lately, not scene yesterday.

AirForceShooter
February 22, 2014, 10:20 AM
Remington

I like a top strap

AFS

avatarshots
February 22, 2014, 10:26 AM
Willie, what's the difference in the Belgian copies? There's a few Colt copies in one of the local gun shops near me.

CraigC
February 22, 2014, 10:39 AM
1860, hands down. For me, there is no better handling sixgun and none better looking.

The 1871-1872 Open Top was really the ultimate incarnation of the 1860.

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_2281b.jpg

tpelle
February 22, 2014, 11:28 AM
I have two 1860's, one 1851 Navy, and one Remington-Beals. I like them all, but overall I lean towards the 1860.

First, in defense of the Remington-Beals, the triggerguard issue is in reality a non-issue. Yes, if you grasp the revolver with your second finger pushed all the way up into the curve where the grip and triggerguard meet, then yes, you would think your knuckle is going to take a beating. But in an actual firing grip your hand tends to slide down a little farther towards the heel of the grip to the point that the little finger curls under the grip frame. (It needs to be there anyway so as to control the upwards rotation of the revolver to allow your thumb to reach the hammer spur for cocking.) Your knuckle then clears the triggerguard, and I've never been rapped.

However the Remington-Beals design does foul quicker than do the Colts.

The ability to quickly swap cylinders being an advantage of the Remington-Beals is largely a modern urban legend, as there is no evidence that this was actually ever done. (I've extensively studied period gunleather, and if extra cylinders were routinely carried there would be original pouches for them, but where I find all sorts of cap boxes and pouches for paper cartridges abound, I have never run across a cylinder pouch.)

The big advantage of the Colt design is, to me, the ease of maintenance. The big hefty cylinder arbor of the Colt hold up over more shots without fouling, but more importantly the removable barrel makes the Colt much faster and simpler to clean. I clean exclusively with water, and find that the only two parts of the revolver that need to be "dunked" are the cylinder and the barrel. The frame normally gets by with only a wipe down with a wet cloth, then a wipe with a dry cloth and an application of Ballistol. However, to thoroughly clean a Remington-Beals requires removing the grips and all of the lockwork, then dunking the entire frame/barrel in the water. It's simply more labor-intensive over the requirements of the Colt.

Strength and accuracy are pretty much even between the two designs.

It is true that the Remington-Beals is pretty much ready to shoot right out of the box, as the design seems to adapt to modern manufacturing methods better than does the Colt. On every Colt clone I have I find that I must refit the cylinder bolt and adjust the timing, as well as fit the barrel wedge, but once that's done they are excellent revolvers, and the work only requires time and a few files.

Flatbush Harry
February 22, 2014, 04:23 PM
I have the same two guns and I enjoy them equally. I find the 1860 Army easier to cap and the cylinder of the 1858 Rem easier to load. I have 2 Uberti 1875 Rems that I use for CAS but I may pick up another 1860 for BP shooting in CAS matches...I prefer the handling and pointing, as well as the aesthetics, of the Colt replicas.

FH

DoubleDeuce 1
February 22, 2014, 04:58 PM
1860 Colt. Fits me better, and I like the looks a lot more. Reminds me of the lower leg of a beautiful woman.:cool:

sltm1
February 22, 2014, 10:03 PM
avatarshots, limited production, better steel and by some considered to be the "true' 2nd gen Colt. Has to do with a 150yr old licensing agreement Colt made with Belgium mfgrs that allegedly never expired. Could you tell me the price on the ones you've seen, I could definitely be interested.

Willie Sutton
February 22, 2014, 10:50 PM
"Willie, what's the difference in the Belgian copies? There's a few Colt copies in one of the local gun shops near me"

To find one, skim your eyes across the prices and when there's a $700 one, ask to see it..

The Belgian Centaure (as sold in Europe) or Centennial (as sold in the USA) were early 60's thru early 70's replicas that are the most accurate of the Colt copies. Many rank them with originals for quality, and prices rival the second generation Colts (and are probably better shooters). There is a specialized area of collecting these, and values are increasing as days go on. I've got not quite a dozen of them, and they are addictive. If your local place has one I would be very surprised, but if they do consider yourself very lucky and buy it without thinking about it.

Hours and hours of reading here:

http://www.1960nma.org/


Willie

.

avatarshots
February 22, 2014, 11:09 PM
LOL I just might take a trip to the gun shop in the morning and get that Belgium made Colt then. I think the price was 299 or 399 but it's probably negotiable. I actually looked at it when I got my Uberti 1860, but since I had no knowledge of BP revolver quality at the time, I chose the Uberti
But I gotta say, my Uberti has NOT given me the problems that I read about others having. It shoots deadly accurate, the caps stay put and don't fall off into the works, etc
If I DO get the Belgium made and it's all that though, I'll be selling the Uberti :)

Crawdad1
February 22, 2014, 11:16 PM
The Colt, just read the history of it and you're hooked.

avatarshots
February 22, 2014, 11:17 PM
Reading right now :)

Crawdad1
February 23, 2014, 04:36 AM
"Both shoot best with 457 round balls and 30gr of Pyrodex"


Avatar, where are you getting that 457 round ball, I'd like to give it a try.

Crawdad1
February 23, 2014, 04:42 AM
Craig, that is beautiful revolver!!!!!!

Did you have that done, do it yourself or buy it like that?:)

BowerR64
February 23, 2014, 06:33 AM
Ide take a 51 in .44 before a 60 and ide pick a 58 over a 51.

Willie Sutton
February 23, 2014, 07:43 AM
"LOL I just might take a trip to the gun shop in the morning and get that Belgium made Colt then. I think the price was 299 or 399 but it's probably negotiable."


If there's a Centennial at the LGS for either of those prices, and you don't buy it, you'll be doing yourself a huge disservice if condition was good.


Willie

.

avatarshots
February 23, 2014, 07:59 AM
Willie, what's a LGS?

CraigC
February 23, 2014, 11:38 AM
Did you have that done, do it yourself or buy it like that?
Thanks! I had it engraved by Michael Gouse and refinished by Turnbull. I'll eventually have something similar done to my 1860 Richards Type II, or something like it.

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_7062b.jpg

BowerR64
February 23, 2014, 03:57 PM
Willie, what's a LGS?
Its the Local Gun Shop, its where you get to handle everything before you order it online from Cabelas. lol

avatarshots
February 23, 2014, 05:04 PM
So I did wind up going to the gun shop this morning, and they still had the Belgian 1860 Army. It seems to be in excellent condition or maybe even never fired!

kbbailey
February 23, 2014, 05:07 PM
I like the '58 remington best. It seems to me that it loads easier, shoots better, balances better, I believe the topstrap makes it stronger. That being said...it seems to foul faster than my 51 Navy.

...A tough choice, but I say Remington '58.

BTW I officially challenge CraigC to an arm rasslin' match and the winner takes that fine lookin' knife and scabbard in post #27.

Crawdad1
February 23, 2014, 06:08 PM
Avatar, you just bought yourself a world class percussion revolver and in perfect shape, good job!!!!

avatarshots
February 23, 2014, 06:18 PM
Thanks Crawdad1 now I'm trying to find out when THIS one was actually made. It has a relatively low serial number #4608

Willie Sutton
February 23, 2014, 09:16 PM
It's a beauty, and the box makes it even better. There will be a prefix on the front of the cylinder, as well as other markings, that will tell it's story. You will want to fill out a sheet and get the information to our friend in Germany, who will place it in the database and let you know exactly what varient it is, as there are several. Go to the website I linked, find the page with the checklist, and determine what you have. In the box, in that condition, it's an easy $500 revolver.

LGS = Local Gun Shop.


Willie

.

Crawdad1
February 23, 2014, 11:04 PM
I agree contact them. Plus they will tell you where to get spare parts such as nipples and stuff if you need them.

avatarshots
February 23, 2014, 11:13 PM
Thanks Willie and Crawdad! I'll do that right now.

kituwa
February 24, 2014, 01:08 AM
Do the Belgian colts have the progressive twist rifling in the barrel?

BCRider
February 24, 2014, 01:28 AM
I saw this the other day and didn't really know how to answer. I still don't.

I've got a pair of Uberti Remingtons and a pair of mixed brand 1860's. All are in .44 like proper smoke guns should be. I would not want to have to toss a coin to give up either pair.

Can we vote "both"?

avatarshots
February 24, 2014, 03:15 AM
BCRider- yeah BOTH is good answer. For me at this moment I'm looking at the workmanship of this Belgian Colt 1860 (1960 Centennial) that from the serial number was made between 1963 and 1965. You can really see the difference in manufacturing. I have a new respect for 1860. I'll see how it shoots in the morning :) then I'll know which model I prefer best, or, like you, I might like Colt and Remmy equally

CraigC
February 24, 2014, 11:28 AM
I officially challenge CraigC to an arm rasslin' match and the winner takes that fine lookin' knife and scabbard in post #27.
:neener:

Gonna do a beaded sheath for that knife before next season. ;)

whughett
February 24, 2014, 11:37 AM
The Ruger Old Army of course!
Yep, hands down.

rockdc
February 24, 2014, 06:18 PM
for actually shooting? Ruger Old Army. No question. My early 70s Lyman Uberti 1858 is nice but it feels like a toy in comparison. The Ruger is no toy.

shafter
February 24, 2014, 06:19 PM
I prefer Colts to Remingtons by a wide margin. I think the 1860 and 1851 look equally nice, but the '60 feels just a bit better in my hand and points like a dream. Cleaning is a piece of cake with the barrel removed.

I don't have anything against the Remington but it doesn't fit my hand well and it doesn't point well.

CraigC
February 24, 2014, 06:25 PM
The Ruger is no toy.
Spend enough time with a Dragoon or Walker and they will all feel like toys. ;)

avatarshots
February 24, 2014, 08:56 PM
I don't consider this Belgian Centennial 1860-1960 Colt a toy. This one has been boxed since 1965. I woke her up today. Her first 6 shots after her long nap.

Crawdad1
February 27, 2014, 11:11 AM
Where in the heck did you find that?

Lodi Ohio?

avatarshots
February 27, 2014, 11:45 AM
Crawdad1
Would you believe Culver City California?

NCWanderer
February 27, 2014, 11:55 AM
It's a no brainer. I like the 1858 Remington much better.

NC

PRM
February 27, 2014, 12:13 PM
Hard decisions...

I started out with the Colts and over the years have owned several of the 2nd Generation and Signature Series Colt 1860s. The 1860s were great guns, I just always liked the Navy Caliber better in the Colt. Mainly because I favor the Pocket Models for ease of carry and the full size in the same caliber always held a plus. I did outfit my 2nd generations with pre-ban elephant ivory grips (by Jerry Meacham). To say I favor the Colts is mainly due to my history with the guns.

Now on the (Uberti) Remington. A few years back I picked my 1858 up from a Forum Member for $100 bucks sight unseen. When it came in, it was practically NIB. Bang for the Buck it is one of my best buys I've ever made. The Remington's sights are more like a modern pistol than the Colt models. With my Colts, they all shoot a little high from point of aim - just something you get used too. The Remington is spot on with point of aim/point of impact. The Remington design seems to be a little better in preventing cap jams, however, my Colts are pretty much jam free and that is not a real concern. I have experienced them with the Colts on occasion, never with the Remington. One of the biggest enhancement factors for me with the Remington is it being stainless steel. As I get older, I seem to like stainless more and more.

I don't plan on retiring or getting shed of any of them, but the Remington will probably see more woods use in the future.

Crawdad1
February 27, 2014, 02:39 PM
What a find. And in California of all places. :rolleyes:

raa-7
February 27, 2014, 10:58 PM
I chose the Remington because of the strong frame,(top strap) and I got to shoot one before I bought one . Also I love the way the loading lever looks on these,, reminds me of the "old west" style revolvers. I love the accuracy of my Remington and I'm sure the Colt is a great revolver also.

4v50 Gary
February 27, 2014, 11:20 PM
ROA. I'm no purist.

avatarshots
February 27, 2014, 11:39 PM
I see Cabelas has a sale on some new kits that come with a spare cylinder. I'm thinking about getting the short barrel Remington. I have the 8" barrel in stainless steel. The target model, which is a fine shooter.

hartcreek
February 28, 2014, 04:05 AM
I have an ASM 1860 and two other Armies one is a Pietta Colt Clone ant the other is a CVA...any how my favorite now Is the Uberti Walker that I picked up a few weeks back and the more I carry it the lighter it gets.

avatarshots
February 28, 2014, 04:19 AM
I saw a ASM Dragoon today with a rear fold down sight. Never saw one like that before. Looked well made too, like with carbon steel. I was tempted to buy it, but I'm looking for a Ruger Old Army now

wap41
February 28, 2014, 09:53 AM
imo you can't beat the ROA's but a have some original 1860's that shoot great and a couple belgium centaurs that are great also

avatarshots
February 28, 2014, 10:23 AM
I can't FIND a ROA at a reasonable price, and I'm looking for one too

wap41
February 28, 2014, 04:28 PM
There is a ROA on GB right now with 2+ days left to go.It has a large chip out of one of the grips but the bid is $315 now and shouldn't go skyhigh with the bad grip.

ZVP
March 4, 2014, 11:07 PM
The '58 Remington.
Stronger frame than the Colt design. On the outside chance that you might overload a chamber, I'd rather have a fully surrounded Cylinder made up of an all STEEL frame to contain the presure.
For day to day shooting, the fully surrounded steel frame is simply stronger than an open topped colt with nothing but a crosspin and steel arbor holding the BBL on the revolver.
The Remington sights are fixed together, no hammer wobble to misalign the sights.
It's a simple matter to just look at the two and think which one do "I" want going off in my hand?
Don;t get me wrong, I own I own 5 Colt style revolvers but load them with a powder measure for each chamber.
Heck I load the same way with a Remington!!!
Anail? Maaybe but I'm havin fun!
ZVP

Big Al Mass
March 5, 2014, 02:37 AM
I like the Colt 1860. It's grip fills my rather large hands better than the Remington. By the way, the Colt does have a top strap, it's just that it also happens to function as the cylinder axis.

MCgunner
March 5, 2014, 08:53 AM
I don't have a 60, need one down the line, I guess. I do like how they look. I have owned 2 51 Navies, well, not really, they were/are both .44s. Cap jams are common in these, not so much the 58. The 58 shoots near POA, never had a colt that did, usually shoot WAY high. I like the looks of the 58 better. I think that's the top strap. I was raised on TV westerns and the 58 has more the 73 Peacemaker look what with the top strap, so, bonus there for me.

Just my preference, though. The colt CAN shoot more rounds without binding up and needing a cylinder pin clean up, but that's a minor issue with me. Both are fun, just which ever YOU like best. If you like the 60 better, I'll agree with you. :D

Oh, yeah, as a shooter and useful gun....ROA hands down no question, but it wasn't a choice in the OP's question.

45 Dragoon
March 5, 2014, 09:25 AM
1860 for sure! My carry is a converted '60. Above all, I'd take a converted Dragoon !!!! (Any of the models, if I had to choose just one.)
45 Dragoon

Crawdad1
March 5, 2014, 09:30 AM
I'm a purist and a rank amateur historian, the Colt. The way I see it the Winchester and the Remington should be categorized as a johnny-come-latelys.

The Colt did all of the fighting back then.

Barbie
March 6, 2014, 05:11 PM
Hi guys,

I own a 1858 Remington, 1851 and a 1860 Colt. They all shoot good and where I aim.

Each has it's own individual features that I like. Guess I don't know which one I like best. I just love "em all. :)

raa-7
March 6, 2014, 05:22 PM
I cant say anything about the 1860 colt because I don't own one but I love the 1858 Remington because of the way it looks, and it's frame is very strong and it's dead on accurate (at least mine is). It's also easy to load. I have a Ruger old Army .45 now and the frame is just like the 58 Remy, only it's a stainless model , and also built like a TANK !

44 Dave
March 9, 2014, 08:04 PM
Just shot my Remington today, when you have a Remington all there is to do is shoot it. When you have an open top you can work on it as much as shoot it. I like tinkering.

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