Video: CCW sound metering


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Ironman
February 22, 2014, 10:20 AM
Of course we would all choose to swap our hearing to buy more time on this planet, and I would never hesitate to use my CCW in self-defense. But I must say I was surprised at the metering of my CCW choice. It registered HIGHER than a AR15. Wow.

So, just how screwed are you? We ran a common array of CCW types and SD ammo and this is what we found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Istwl0juKsA

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CmpsdNoMore
February 22, 2014, 10:32 AM
I shot .357 magnum rounds out of my Ruger Sp101 with a 3" barrel without hearing protection once.

...once...

chicharrones
February 22, 2014, 10:33 AM
Nice video.

I still have problems with my right ear after firing .357 Magnum out of 6" barreled revolvers on two occasions without hearing protection. I was young and dumb and didn't learn my lesson the first time. Plus, my friends didn't help any by doing it with me. :p

Ankeny
February 22, 2014, 02:23 PM
Back in my LEO days I fired a 240 gr. JHP out of a 4 inch model 29 (.44 magnum) inside of an enclosed vehicle. :what:

monotonous_iterancy
February 22, 2014, 03:37 PM
I still have problems with my right ear after firing .357 Magnum out of 6" barreled revolvers on two occasions without hearing protection.

That makes me wonder, how are combat veterans not completely deaf? Everyone I've ever met who has seen combat seems to be able to hear people talking, and environmental noise fine.

ChCx2744
February 22, 2014, 09:33 PM
Regardless of how much auditory exclusion you experience when shooting without ear pro, shooting any real or common caliber firearm will cause some sort of damage, especially from an enclosed location. I remember accidentally forgetting to put my ear pro on behind a firing line of people qualifying with .40 cals and that first barrage made my ears ring for the rest of the day.

230RN
February 23, 2014, 10:28 AM
Heh. You could almost guess the sound power by how long it took the echoes to die down.

Great video.

I will say that once I fired 3" mags out of a 30" barreled shotgun at a pack of dogs who were running at me with steak sauce on their minds.

Scary.

No hearing protection.

Never heard the shots, never felt the recoil.

I later that day fired some more of those rounds without hearing protection, was amazed at the noise and kick.

Full Story:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5600842#post5600842

chicharrones
February 23, 2014, 04:29 PM
That makes me wonder, how are combat veterans not completely deaf? Everyone I've ever met who has seen combat seems to be able to hear people talking, and environmental noise fine.

I don't know, I haven't been in anything resembling combat.

I do know that the first time I did fire the .357 without hearing protection I was 20 and was in the clear outdoors. Still, I got the symbol clash to the ears with my hearing shutting off for a short time. I could still hold on target and continue shooting with little problem.

The second time I was maybe 30 and was under a low metal roof. The sound immediately pained my right ear causing me to wince to that side. My right ear rang for several months.

I had fired other guns on rare occasions without hearing protection (rifles and shotguns mostly) and never experienced what happened with that .357 magnum.

Now my right ear goes fuzzy after only a couple of loud songs on the radio. I just can't listen to music like I used to. I now wear hearing protection to run my lawn equipment or the carpet steam cleaner. It really is irritating without it. My work puts me in loud places too which can add to the problem.

chicharrones
February 23, 2014, 04:31 PM
Back in my LEO days I fired a 240 gr. JHP out of a 4 inch model 29 (.44 magnum) inside of an enclosed vehicle. :what:

Damn! :eek:

Trent
February 25, 2014, 12:11 PM
Back in my LEO days I fired a 240 gr. JHP out of a 4 inch model 29 (.44 magnum) inside of an enclosed vehicle. :what:

Yikes.

Isn't that about the same as getting hit with the effects of a flashbang grenade?

:)

"BANG"

"Duhh... what was I doing???"

mike28w
February 25, 2014, 04:55 PM
Good video ! Good info !

I would have liked to see what the results were if the meter had been placed closer to the head of the shooter...ie: the dB that the ears were actually exposed to.... mike

piece of meat
February 25, 2014, 05:20 PM
Outdoors or in an enclosed area makes a HUGE difference..esp with cement floors and metal roof

Godsgunman
February 25, 2014, 05:27 PM
According to the results it really doesn't make a hill of beans. The highest was 166 (.357mag) and the lowest was 160 (.380). At those ranges hearing damage can happen with any CCW, especially in an enclosed area. My take from their results...use the caliber you shoot the best. In all actuality your hearing will be your last concern if you ever find yourself needing to discharge your weapon in self defense.

Arizona_Mike
February 25, 2014, 05:51 PM
What does one of those sound meters cost and are they available for rental?

Mike

benEzra
February 25, 2014, 09:23 PM
What kind of muzzle device did that AR have, and was it a 16" or a 14.5"?

I'm not surprised that the short .357 was louder than an AR; the relatively high working pressure, very short barrel, and the barrel-cylinder gap all play a role.

morcey2
February 25, 2014, 10:19 PM
Yikes.

Isn't that about the same as getting hit with the effects of a flashbang grenade?

:)

"BANG"

"Duhh... what was I doing???"

I think that's where they came up with the idea for a flashbang grenade.

Bob: "Hey, Steve!"

Steve: "Huh? What?"

Bob: "That gave me a great idea!"

Steve: "Huh? What? Mommy?"

Bob: "How about something really loud and bright to disorient people in confined spaces?"

Steve: "I don't care! I never watched Seinfeld, you know that."

Bob: "I never thought that movie was that scary. But what about my idea?"

Steve: "Kramer was never that funny."


:) (too much time on my hands.)

HammsBeer
February 25, 2014, 10:46 PM
Years ago qualifying on an open range with the M16, forgot to put my ear plugs in. First shot and "neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" oops better get those plugs in. Hearing was fine after that.

Few years later, shooting a 9mm outside under a steel roof and forgot to put in the ear plugs.
First shot and "NEEEEEEEEEEEOMGEEEEEEEEEEEETHAT HURTSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEI GOTTA PUT THIS DOWNEEEEEEEEEEEEE...."

Trent
February 27, 2014, 01:40 AM
Few years later, shooting a 9mm outside under a steel roof and forgot to put in the ear plugs.
First shot and "NEEEEEEEEEEEOMGEEEEEEEEEEEETHAT HURTSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEI GOTTA PUT THIS DOWNEEEEEEEEEEEEE...."

That's about how my SCAR sounds under a steel roof with muffs on, thanks to the obnoxiously loud muzzlebreak. I've been doubling up when I sight in off the bench. Not so bad under the open sky.

Double Naught Spy
February 27, 2014, 08:27 AM
While interesting, the testing showed some definite flaws. They attempted to standardize the testing by having the muzzles at approximately the same location for each shot to have a standardized distance of the sound tester from the muzzle, which is good. The only problem is that they changed the direction of pointing during the test. The AR15 appeared to be pointed straight down range, for example, but several pistol rounds appeared to be fired with the muzzle pointed to a location definitely to the LEFT and as a result, the muzzles were pointed more toward the sound meter.

Sound is a very directional phenomenon and influenced by many factors. For most guns, for example, the sound will be louder on the muzzle side than on the butt side of the gun. The sound will be louder left and right of the gun than it will be at the butt end.

Their sound tests all were higher than other tests I have seen done. That would indicate that this is an issue with the testing. My guess is that their sound meter isn't properly calibrated.

Hometeached1
February 27, 2014, 03:32 PM
I've shot a 124gr+p 9mm without ear protection once. Not to bad, rang for a couple of minutes.

A friend of mine that was in the military said one time he shot his 11.5" M4 from inside a SUV in training, even though he was wearing ear plugs his ears were ringing for about a hour later.

roadliner
February 27, 2014, 08:45 PM
I had a 6" 357 shooting a 125jhp go off just 18" from my left ear about 25 years ago. The ear hasn't stopped ringing yet.
Different situation, I fired a 32acp in a face to face confrontation (actually closer) and afterward didn't recall hearing the shot. The adrenalin and fighting for your life kinda blocks that out. I imagine if you had to shoot inside your house in a life or death encounter, your focus on remaining alive would block the noise out. Of course you would still suffer the effects to your hearing, but it beats the alternative.

rule303
February 27, 2014, 08:52 PM
An occasional discharge isn't likely to cause any measurable long term hearing damage. Repeated exposure definitely will. I have never once seen a hunter in the field using ear protection, even when shooting magnum centerfire rifles, which are much louder than your average carry gun. If you ever had to use a gun to defend yourself, ringing ears for a few days is a small price to pay.

Double Naught Spy
February 28, 2014, 08:47 AM
An occasional discharge isn't likely to cause any measurable long term hearing damage.

This is one of those myths that should not be repeated. There are plenty of folks that have experienced permanent tinnitus resulting from a single pistol blast.

I have never once seen a hunter in the field using ear protection, even when shooting magnum centerfire rifles, which are much louder than your average carry gun.

A lot of hunters are ignorant or hard-headed and they will suffer hearing loss. I know several who do wear it. I wear it for ever hunt. One thing I have noticed is that most who don't wear it, already have hearing loss.

Here is a very brief read that covers it...
http://earplugstore.typepad.com/got_ears_get_informed/2012/09/can-one-gunshot-damage-your-hearing.html

Here is a whole thread on hearing loss, again...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=474363

J-Bar
February 28, 2014, 09:53 AM
If this is worrisome to you, then I would advise against using a shotgun for home defense. I have been indoors when a shotgun was fired (packing house had to dispatch a bull that had escaped restraint). It shakes the dust off everything!

Drail
February 28, 2014, 10:27 AM
I have to say that I am bewildered by all of these threads that keep showing up regarding the decibel levels of various calibers. It doesn't matter. They're ALL more than loud enough to damage your hearing. ALL of them. None are "less damaging" than any others. When practicing you must wear protection. In a self defense situation hearing loss will occur but it is going to be the very least of your problems.:scrutiny: It does seem as though some people are actually factoring in the noise level when selecting their type of gun/caliber/load for carry use. It's not going to make any difference.

pezo
February 28, 2014, 10:40 AM
This is the first reason I use .38 special over .357 for defense out if my revolvers. I have fired .38 outdoors and did temporarily loose my hearing and developed a ringing for a few days. I felt my hearing getting affected more each pull of the trigger up to the sixth shot. That is my limit on caliber decibels. My hearing came back and ringing stopped. I shudder to think of letting loose a .357 with open ears. If I had no choice sure. But I can choose ahead of time what I carry.

Double Naught Spy
February 28, 2014, 05:48 PM
None are "less damaging" than any others.

Sure they are. A 150 db gun is less damaging than a 165 db gun, contrary to the test in the OP, the db level should be measured at the head of the shooter and not several feet off to the side of the gun where the shooter isn't located.

It does seem as though some people are actually factoring in the noise level when selecting their type of gun/caliber/load for carry use.

Yes, this is very silly. They are not choosing what works best for them for protecting their lives from a threat, but deciding on a gun/caliber based on a factor that is non-critical to self defense.

It's not going to make any difference.

It very well might on many levels. While you may not suffer as much ear damage, if you choose the less powerful caliber (despite having the option for something more powerful that maybe you can control as well) maybe you save a little more of your hearing...before you bleed out. ;)

xfyrfiter
March 1, 2014, 03:25 PM
I have had tinnitus since the age of 17 (now 62) and I know when it started, we were at the gravel pit and I fired six rounds from a .22 mag snubbie. my ears have rang ever since. Even louder than my Security six in .357.

ChCx2744
March 1, 2014, 09:08 PM
For everyone asking about the similarity to a gunshot indoors to a flash bang grenade...Hell I'd rather eat a bang than be in the same room as a gun going off. The bang is more of a loud boom that you can feel inside your body, nose and mouth where the gunshot is more of a loud crack/snap that actually hurts your ears and inside your head. I've been exposed to a flash bang grenade in training and I've also been in the same room (About 20x25 feet) as an AR going off and the AR hurt.

230RN
March 7, 2014, 05:25 PM
Yes, this is very silly. They are not choosing what works best for them for protecting their lives from a threat, but deciding on a gun/caliber based on a factor that is non-critical to self defense.

Well, I can say from personal experience that I'll never buy a magna-ported 4" .357 again.

Recoil is pleasant, but.

PJSprog
March 7, 2014, 05:46 PM
...the db level should be measured at the head of the shooter and not several feet off to the side of the gun where the shooter isn't located.
Was shooting outdoors with some friends back in the mid-80s, and one friend grabbed my 686 and started squeezing off some .357 rounds before I could get my muffs back on. As I was standing just about 5 feet off to the side of him, I was frankly surprised that it didn't really hurt at all. I then shot it myself, sans muffs. One shot, and I've never had my ears hurt so bad in my life. It was like someone jabbed ice picks into both ears. Never did that again.

I've also been a professional rock musician for over 30 years. Believe me, if you don't already have Tinnitus, you don't want it. Take care of your hearing.

Permalearner
March 9, 2014, 03:17 AM
audio engineer/musician here-

Ouch. Impulse sounds damage hearing differently then continuous sound, hearing loss is inevitable at SPLs that high. At audio schools (rules put forth by the AES) getting caught mixing at dBu of 85+ will get you kicked out of the program. Wearing -30 dB protection at an indoor range will protect sufficiently for a few minutes. The length of time one is exposed to high SPLs is something overlooked for shooters- wear plugs and phones always when shooting for more then 10 minutes. 160dB is insane! One instance /w out protection WILL cause permanent damage. In a CCW real life scenario (obviously) nothing can be done, but at the range, different story. Every time one hears ringing- that's the LAST time you will ever hear that particular frequency, ever. I'm going to do my own tests at the range /w protection and record/average the dB level (using A-weighted measuring). Will post results when I get 'em.

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