More fallout from the SAFE act: FFL relocates from NY to KY


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Midwest
February 22, 2014, 09:56 PM
More fallout from the NY SAFE act: FFL relocates from NY to KY


New York's SAFE Act not only made firearm related companies think about looking (or expanding) to other states to do business in a more pro-gun climate. But now it is also affecting retail businesses that sell firearms and firearms related products.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?120468-Visited-a-local-gun-store-today-that-was-once-located-in-NY-state&p=2038290#post2038290

We have a story of an FFL who relocated from New York State to Kentucky for these reasons.

"They told me that after the SAFE ACT was passed, most of their inventory was illegal. This made it impossible to make a living running a family gun store, and as I said, most of their inventory was now illegal and had to go."

So the question is how many others FFL's in NY State and other states like Connecticut and Maryland are going to pick up and move to more gun friendly states as well?

While I'm sure NY State isn't crying over the loss of one FFL, I suspect this isn't the only FFL moving out. If you have 50, 100, 150+ FFL's eventually move out & relocate to other states, it will start to add up to be a financial loss to the state and will have political fallout down the line.

While this might be the first I heard of an FFL moving out of state, I don't think this is an isolated event. I don't think it has been publicized until now.

.

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zeek96
February 22, 2014, 10:41 PM
That State couldn't give a rats ass about stores leaving that sell guns. With NYC having all the voting power along with the other cities in that state they would be overjoyed if they all moved out and left. investigate how difficult it is to get a pistol permit just to own an handgun let alone try to get a ccw since one is not the same as the other. You cant even touch a handgun in that state without showing that you even have a pistol permit. As long as one company somewhere is willing to sell guns to the State Law enforcement the govt there is happy as a clam. County Sherriff's may not like the safe act or act on it but the State Police will enforce it and arrest any violators. The legislature in Albany still believes that if you make something illegal then all the people will follow. That's why there are no illegal drugs in the state or crime because they are illegal. I don't know why they even fund a police force since laws fix and prevent everything. Break the state into two regions and you may have a chance at the freedoms listed in the Bill of rights. Until then the state is under an iron boot. Now if large banks were illegal and trading of stocks as well then the state would take notice since that is their bread and butter. I love the geography and beauty of the sate but the politics have killed it. The Safe Act stops nothing from happening again. All it does is incriminate the innocent and put businesses out of business or force them to move and not do business in that state. This is a state that wants to increase hunting in the state yet bans some of the most popular guns for hunting. It is the same state that approved the use of crossbows and gladly takes the sales tax from the sales of these items and then the following year says you can use them anymore and are illegal to hunt with. Ironically this is a state that even has High School rifle teams and a state wide High school league! It is not even ROTC. They say they don't want guns in schools yet they have gun ranges in the schools and teach kids how to shoot them! Ironic isn't it? How many states have rifle teams let alone have the teams and a range located in the schools themselves in other states? It just proves that the politicians don't know what they are doing or care what the laws they pass really do as long as it sounds good in the news.

Skribs
February 23, 2014, 01:47 AM
Honestly, if I was a firearms manufacturer, I wouldn't produce state compliant models. For the simple reason that by the time I get done with all that R&D and retooling and start up production, I'd have no guarantee that the state wouldn't say "wait a minute, we need to require this feature" or "we need to make it 3 of these 5 things instead of 2 of these 5". Imagine having a "NY Compliant" model that you've finally produced only to find that it is no longer NY compliant. Where else are you going to sell an inferior piece of equipment? People in free states aren't going to want that NY-compliant piece!

I agree with zeek - the state (meaning the state government) probably doesn't care. They probably want the FFLs to go. You know what? I say fine. I say if you are politically against an entire industry, that industry should leave you high and dry. The workers and customers in that industry should move out and give their tax dollars to someone else. When the stores and law abiding gun owners are all gone, and there is still "gun crime" in NYC, it will make an even bigger case for the failure of gun control.

mbopp
February 23, 2014, 09:43 AM
NY didn't give a damn when Remington announced the new factory would be in Alabama. The state lost an estimated 2,000 new jobs and first-year $87 million for the local economy in Ilion. Kahr, ATI, and AR15.com all left NY.

I was at a LGS near Binghamton and the owner said he's looking to move his shop over the border to Pa.

But Gov Cuomo gave NBC a $22 million annual tax credit for moving The Tonight Show to NYC.

mac66
February 23, 2014, 09:50 AM
Isn't part of the point of these laws to run guns and things associated with guns out of their state?

Someday the guys in those gun banning states will wake up and do something about the politicians who continue to take away your rights. What the heck are you waiting for?

Torian
February 23, 2014, 09:55 AM
The interesting thing is for those of us who have actually lived in New York state, the tax climate there has been anything but pro-business for a long time.

I would never even consider purchasing a home there let alone run a business of any sort. If I was a running a business to do with firearms, I would have left long before this whole hoopla started.

scramasax
February 23, 2014, 10:10 AM
Remington is not moving from NYS. They are closing other plants and consolidating them in AL. E town, KY is one that a friend works. He was offered a chance to move to a place with higher cost of living on his dime with no compensation or raise. Lets get the facts straight before we pat each other on the back. It is just a restructuring of the company.

Jim Watson
February 23, 2014, 10:21 AM
The gun industry is pretty small potatoes to the oligarchs in those areas.

There will not be an effect on them until more companies take the Barrett route and refuse to sell weapons to the enforcers and bodyguards.

statelineblues
February 23, 2014, 10:29 AM
Honestly, if I was a firearms manufacturer, I wouldn't produce state compliant models. For the simple reason that by the time I get done with all that R&D and retooling and start up production, I'd have no guarantee that the state wouldn't say "wait a minute, we need to require this feature" or "we need to make it 3 of these 5 things instead of 2 of these 5". Imagine having a "NY Compliant" model that you've finally produced only to find that it is no longer NY compliant. Where else are you going to sell an inferior piece of equipment? People in free states aren't going to want that NY-compliant piece!

I believe something similar happened in NJ many years ago when the State Police were looking to replace their standard sidearm (at that time it was the HK P7M8). Smith & Wesson put in a bid and the state required so many alterations to the model they submitted that S&W deemed it financially impossible to comply.

mbopp
February 23, 2014, 11:27 AM
No, Remington isn't leaving Ilion. It still employs 1,300 people there but the fact remains that NYS gave up the opportunity to get another 2,000 jobs there.
Lately Gov Cuomo has been criss crossing the state handing out grant money like he's throwing candy off a parade float. Can you tell it's an election year?
52 of the 62 counties have passed resolutions against the SAFE act. And so far 33 counties have passes resolutions against NY State from using their seals, names, or letterhead for any purpose associated with the SAFE Act.

sauer1911
February 23, 2014, 11:34 AM
Boy am I glad I'm almost 60 and not in my 20's. Well as far as this insane gun b.s. is concerned. Sigh.

be safe

Slotback
February 23, 2014, 09:07 PM
Wouldn't we all like to see all the major manufacturers pull a Ronnie Barrett on NY state and the city of NY?

Speedo66
February 23, 2014, 09:12 PM
Cuomo couldn't give a rat's behind about NYS anymore.

He's got his eyes on the prize (the presidency), and everything he does from this point forward is in pursuit of that.

"I passed the toughest gun law in the US"

"I helped businesses through grants"

"I, I, I, I"

Texshooter
February 24, 2014, 03:39 PM
Why it is so vital to let Manf. know if they sell to LEOs in non-Free state they will lose civilian market.

3D's
February 24, 2014, 07:41 PM
The states government may not care that there are businesses leaving but I would think that sooner or later, those citizens affected negatively by the moving may care a whole lot. With luck, maybe (heavy on the word maybe) they'll think about it at the voting polls.

Nickel Plated
February 24, 2014, 07:59 PM
The states government may not care that there are businesses leaving but I would think that sooner or later, those citizens affected negatively by the moving may care a whole lot. With luck, maybe (heavy on the word maybe) they'll think about it at the voting polls.
Doubt it. The votes come from NYC. The city by itself can outvote pretty much the rest of the state. And the city, including it's voters could care less about the gun industry. it doesn't impact them.
The upstate communities that would be impacted by the job losses have already been losing jobs for decades and are about as pissed about it as they will get. But it makes no difference. Their votes don't count against the city.

oneounceload
February 24, 2014, 09:41 PM
While I'm sure NY State isn't crying over the loss of one FFL, I suspect this isn't the only FFL moving out. If you have 50, 100, 150+ FFL's eventually move out & relocate to other states, it will start to add up to be a financial loss to the state and will have political fallout down the line.


Not enough financial fallout, but it accomplishes their goal - to keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding folks. Once the gun stores are gone, where will those folks get theirs? (let alone ammo, reloading components, etc.)

tarosean
February 24, 2014, 09:44 PM
Once the gun stores are gone, where will those folks get theirs? (let alone ammo, reloading components, etc.)

Yep. Should be the last thing anyone wants, regardless of the asinine laws...

Queen_of_Thunder
February 24, 2014, 10:02 PM
Doubt it. The votes come from NYC. The city by itself can outvote pretty much the rest of the state.

And here is the avenue of attack that must be taken. A voting rights case.

As we have done in the pass by taking in race and ethnicity to draw voting districts so people would have an equal voice in their government the situation now exists in some states like NY where a a city can control an entire state. This is not equal. The Rural vote vs the City vote is the next step in ensuring that all are represented equally. All it takes is a court case.

Queen_of_Thunder
February 25, 2014, 12:01 PM
While watching CNBC yesterday they had co-founder Ken Langone of Home Depot on. He has or is part of a republicans for Cuomo group. Republicans supporting and funding Cuomo's policies. Maybe New York gun owners should let HD know how they feel about i.

oneounceload
February 25, 2014, 02:32 PM
Guess I'll go to Lowe's!

rim
February 25, 2014, 02:42 PM
NYS NYC both suck for anything pro 2A...

Hunterdad
February 25, 2014, 04:23 PM
There will be plenty more as well. A store front FFL about 2 miles from my house is relocating to Texas next month. Remington is slowly crawling out if the state and 2 other local FFL's had to close their doors last year because of the unSafe Act. I really, really hate this state.

Jackal
February 25, 2014, 04:25 PM
Remember: Without all those FFL's in the city, criminals wont have access to guns.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

tbk5
February 25, 2014, 04:27 PM
Wouldn't we all like to see all the major manufacturers pull a Ronnie Barrett on NY state and the city of NY?

This!

They don't care if the companies move but they might care if their police and personal body guards cannot buy any firearms....

mgmorden
February 25, 2014, 04:33 PM
I know we want to clap and cheer about the gun companies that move from these states, and I applaud their decisions, but realistically they're only the tiniest fraction of tax revenue and jobs in the big picture.

I almost find it comical when people talk about Magpul leaving Colorado as if the politicians will be looking at empty coffers wondering thinking back and lamenting their mistake. When you look at the overall picture none of these players are really big enough for them to care.

Jackal
February 25, 2014, 04:43 PM
I sincerely hope that the law enforcement and every govt agency is also complying with the states laws. Magazine limits, gun types/evil features, all of it. :fire:

3212
February 25, 2014, 06:17 PM
The city voters should not have the power to impose their laws on the rural population.A case can be made for separate juristictions.

mgmorden
February 25, 2014, 07:57 PM
The city voters should not have the power to impose their laws on the rural population.A case can be made for separate juristictions.

The entire country has to deal with it. If it weren't for California and New York we'd never have to worry about anti-gun laws coming to pass at the Federal level.

Sgt.Murtaugh
February 26, 2014, 04:49 PM
the only people this hurts are the actual consumers. sad times.

Rock185
February 26, 2014, 05:09 PM
If NY can run every FFL and every firearms related business out of the state, not only will the politicos there not care, they will tout it as a great victory IMHO...

pseudonymity
February 26, 2014, 06:28 PM
NYS NYC both suck for anything pro 2A...

NY City for certain, but nearly all of NY state outside the NY City metro area is very pro-2A. The situation is bad, but not for lack of trying by any means. We simply lack the numbers needed to get pro 2A politicians elected. The typical out of state response is "well just try harder". Maybe you are familiar with the numbers in NY, maybe not, but for the sake of the thread I am going to throw some numbers out there so you can see what we are up against.

Your profile shows you in OK. The OK City metro area is the largest population center in your state, with about 1.3 million residents in about 6300 square miles. Bronx county in NY has nearly 1.4 million residents - in 57 square miles. There are five counties that make up NY City, and Bronx County is the second smallest in population. The NY city area is probably about 11 million people, with the other areas running about 8 million or so. Estimated number of gun owners in NY (almost all of who are outside NYC) run up to 4 million people, which is slightly larger than the entire population of Oklahoma.

After the law was passed here in NY, we had about 10,000 people show up on a winter weekday to protest. To residents of other states that like to complain about NY state and 2A support, how do the numbers look at 2A rallies in your state?

http://alloveralbany.com/archive/2013/02/28/scenes-from-the-rally-to-repeal-the-ny-safe-act

oneounceload
February 26, 2014, 08:24 PM
If NY can run every FFL and every firearms related business out of the state, not only will the politicos there not care, they will tout it as a great victory IMHO...

Absolutely! They will tout it as the new way to win when the courts won't agree with them. The object is to win at any cost. Google "Soviet style negotiation tactics" or Saul Alinsky for how they operate

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