Private Contractors and the NFA


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Remington550-1
February 24, 2014, 10:49 AM
The 1986 Gun Owners Protection Act closed the machine gun registry to private citizens, however MI/LEO are exempt from this as well as title II manufacturers ("dealer samples"). So now, what would private contractors be considered? They are not part of the government, they are only hired by the government. Does this make them some sort of LE organization? What about the mercs that work for the CIA? Do they have to go through all the paperwork that private individuals go through to obtain MGs and DDs? Do they simply have deep pockets and buy pre '86 MGs or do they just use ARs?

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ClickClickD'oh
February 24, 2014, 10:53 AM
Operating outside the US they can pretty much do what ever they want, since they operate in pretty lawless places.

Coming back into the US they are civies just like everyone else and need their tax stamps. Blackwater got in a hell of a mess for bringing some guns back from the sandbox.

Arizona_Mike
February 24, 2014, 04:38 PM
They keep their tools overseas. You can own a machine gun too as long as you don't import it. Also for training purposes, I would not be surprised if some of the larger companies are not Type 1/3 FFLs with a few posties on hand (you can have 2 of one model per LEO letter).

Mike

Remington550-1
February 26, 2014, 11:09 AM
I thought in order to be an MG manufacturer you had to actually sell products to MI/LE organizations, there is a way to get around this?

Telekinesis
February 26, 2014, 12:04 PM
I thought in order to be an MG manufacturer you had to actually sell products to MI/LE organizations, there is a way to get around this?


Sort of. To be a FFL you have to be in the business, but that just means you have to sell or transfer guns, it doesn't matter what type. Just because they have a SOT doesn't mean they have to sell machine guns to Mil/LE. They could be perfectly legal and "in the business" if they just transferred title 1 guns to employees or the public. It's semantics, but having a SOT allows them to deal in NFA weapons, it doesn't require it.

If they were 07/02s (manufacturer of NFA weapons) they could BUILD as many post samples as they want (properly registered on form 2s of course). The law letter only applies when they are purchasing machine guns from another manufacturer or dealer. Considering most of the contractors use ARs and AKs (both easy to convert given a machine shop) the companies could easily have a fleet of weapons for their employees to train with while in the states.

And as previously mentioned, most of the guns actually used when these guys are on a contract are kept outside of the US so they don't have to deal with import/export issues.

hentown
February 27, 2014, 01:00 PM
It's pretty pathetic that Americans have to go abroad, in order to fully exercise their 2nd Amendment rights! :confused:

dogtown tom
February 27, 2014, 05:25 PM
hentown It's pretty pathetic that Americans have to go abroad, in order to fully exercise their 2nd Amendment rights!
Uh, what?
Americans abroad have NO 2nd Amendment rights.;)

Arizona_Mike
February 27, 2014, 06:09 PM
He meant that rights that should be recognized under the second amendment but are not in the US are within the law in some (many) other places.

Mike

Speedo66
March 13, 2014, 11:19 AM
I'm not sure all the places private contractors have, or distribute weapons are completely legal either.

strambo
March 14, 2014, 12:28 AM
Yes, private security companies do not have any special status like LE or military. They typically buy civilian legal AR 15s. My company bought Bushmasters in the mid 2000's. Overseas, they are under whatever laws and/or regs are in place from whomever is running things be it the military or the local government. In Iraq, we had lots of stuff. It all stayed there.

JustinJ
March 14, 2014, 05:11 PM
Are there no private security firms operating within the US that are allowed full autos, post 86 I mean?

Sam1911
March 14, 2014, 07:01 PM
As explained above, there are two types of Special Occupational Tax that, when paid, allow a non-governmental entity to possess post-'86 machine guns. One is for making machine guns, one is for transferring them. Both require that the holder be one type of Federal Firearms Licensee (dealer or manufacturer). These both carry responsibilities and limits.

That's pretty much it. They both are for a certain purpose, but neither's purpose is "to maintain an arsenal for a private paramilitary force."

Also as mentioned above, Blackwater did get into trouble for not being careful enough with these matters.

Midwest
March 14, 2014, 07:51 PM
I found that that the NRC can employ people to use Machine guns to guard nuke plants. I found the below thread of interest. It says a private contractor might be able to use machine guns to guard the plant. But another thread says the DOE (Department Of Energy) owns the machine guns.

I found this from ar15.com


http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=297970

"
42 USC 2201a lets the Nuclear Regulatory Commission authorize nuclear power plants (or their subcontractors) to transfer, receive, possess, transport, import, or use machine guns and other sorts of weapons.

It basically gives NRC authorized power plants an exemption from 28 USC 5844 (they can import firearms without being a political subdivision), from 18 USC 925 (d)(3) (they can also import prohibited frames, receivers, and barrels), and from much of 18 USC 922 (the national firearms act).

To be clear; it isn't that the NRC purchases the firearms and equips the power plants, it is that the NRC authorizes the power plants to arm themselves. And once authorized, if I am reading it correctly, they can directly import, manufacture, or purchase machine guns without going through a dealer or dealing with the BATF whatsoever.

So, hypothetically, FirstEnergy, a private corporation that owns the Perry Nuclear Power Plant could be importing machine guns to defend the plant. And if I read everything correctly it looks like they can be importing them without going through any BATF forms, so I guess I was wondering how these privately owned machine guns are tracked?"


Further down

"In fact, the U.S. Department of Energy itself may only own registered MGs (yes, they own a lot of them), and if Congress and the USC require DOE to register its MGs, they aren't going to give a pass to any private companies performing nuclear tasks. "

.

PBR Streetgang
March 14, 2014, 10:16 PM
Blackwater had a special deal with a local LE agency for their full auto stuff..............The LE agency officially owned them but they were "Stored" at the Blackwater training range.

As far as the Dept of Energy, their armament collection makes Secret Service look like the high school JROTC rifle team.

Remington550-1
March 14, 2014, 10:42 PM
Blackwater had a special deal with a local LE agency for their full auto stuff..............The LE agency officially owned them but they were "Stored" at the Blackwater training range.

As far as the Dept of Energy, their armament collection makes Secret Service look like the high school JROTC rifle team.
If you had to deal with all of that EU and PU you might want something more that a Glock 22 also.

Here are a few more forum discussions regarding this issue of Blackwater:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406668

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11892

What I find really interesting is that no one ever tried to go back and add a section to the '86 Gun Owner Protection Act that allowed PC's to have their own MG registry. Of course, this probably would have lead every militia in the US to try to become PC's!

PBR Streetgang
March 14, 2014, 11:45 PM
Blackwater got the shaft from certain politicians who didn't know the whole story and wanted to grandstand to make themselves look good..They weren't the only PMCs but due to their alignment with certain people in the Republican party ,they were made scapegoats.......

Blackwater was the closest thing we had in modern times ,,,,,,,that could be compared to Air America...............can you say plausible deniability?

Midwest
March 15, 2014, 09:47 AM
(Public information from a government site , should not be subject to copyright restrictions.)



http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/01/013006-openletter-ffl-atomic-energy-act.html

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives

Assistant Director

Washington, DC 20226

January 30, 2006
Open Letter to All Federally Licensed Dealers, Importers, and Manufacturers of Firearms and Ammunition

The purpose of this Open Letter is to advise all Federal firearms licensees (FFLs) of a recent change to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as it relates to the transfer of certain types of firearms.

Recently, Congress amended the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 with the passage of the Energy Policy Act of 2005. This act (Public Law 109-058) was signed by the President on August 8, 2005.

Although the new provision does not amend the Gun Control Act of 1968 or the National Firearms Act, it does allow for the possession of machineguns by Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) licensees and authorized contractors that provide security to these licensees at nuclear facilities.


The language of the new law appears in 42 U.S.C. 2201a. This new provision is a departure from present legal restrictions which do not allow for machineguns to be imported for, transferred to, or possessed by non-government entities.

Before this new statute may take effect, the law states that the NRC must establish guidelines for implementation that are approved by the Attorney General (AG).

Toward this end, ATF has met with the NRC to offer assistance in developing guidelines that will enable NRC licensees, contractors and FFLs to comply with all Federal laws and regulations that govern their conduct of business.

NRC is in the process of preparing the draft guidelines, but the approval process within the NRC and by the AG is detailed. For that reason, the implementation should not be considered imminent.

As additional information becomes available, this posting will be updated. In the meantime, ATF does not have authority to process import or transfer applications filed pursuant to 42 U.S.C. 2201a.

ATF is committed to assisting the FFL population in complying with the laws and regulations while carrying out our mission to prevent terrorism, reduce violent crime and protect the public. Thank you for your continued diligence in helping keep America safe.

If you have any questions about the new firearms provision of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, please call the Nuclear Regulatory Commission at 301-415-7015.

Signature of Lewis P. Raden

Lewis P. Raden
Assistant Director
Enforcement Programs and Services

.

Sam1911
March 15, 2014, 12:26 PM
So the contractors can use the DOE's machine guns while on guard duty. Makes sense.

Arizona_Mike
March 18, 2014, 11:28 AM
Blackwater did not go anywhere, just changed name to Xe Services in 1990 and then Academi in


They licensed their old name and logo to Mossberg (there still seems to be a lot of good faith with the brand):

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/mossberg_2011_buyers_guide_and_catalogpdf_page_86_of_110-tfb.jpg

Mike

Willie Sutton
March 18, 2014, 10:53 PM
"Although the new provision does not amend the Gun Control Act of 1968 or the National Firearms Act, it does allow for the possession of machineguns by Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) licensees and authorized contractors that provide security to these licensees at nuclear facilities."



Making a long story short: I did some consulting work for a small prototype engineering company a few years back. On eproject was to design and manufacture unmanned remote controlled machine gun firing systems that were pre-positionable, then were able to be fired using TV and FLIR sighting systems by remote control from a monitoring station. This was a DOE contract. They did the preliminary engineering work using an Airsoft replica, but then needed a real weapon for final dimensioning and testing. One day while I was there a FEDEX box came with a M-249 in a case, with a nice bar-code tag on the side, spic and span and absolutely brand new. We signed for it with the FEDEX guy and that was that... into the safe it went. Direct from the DOE to our door. I think it's still there as an engineering sample. Naturally we completely tested it for function...

There was zero paperwork done with the BATFE, and minimal paperwork done between the DOE and the Contractor other than an inclusion of terms that a sample would be provided to the contractor in the contract for the system. There was a security for storage clause, and that was about it. No BATFE Form "anything" was done and the entire thing took about three weeks from request to fulfillment.


Willie

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