Smart guns


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tuj
February 25, 2014, 07:32 AM
Hi fellow shooters!

While this concept has been around for a while (I think I remember reading about S&W doing something like this back in the 90's), I'm hearing more and more about it. If you're not familiar, the basic premise behind the 'smart' gun is that you need something else in close proximity to the gun for it to be able to fire. This could be a bracelet, watch, ring, etc.

Obviously there are a lot of concerns; your gun now has to have a battery although battery life has improved dramatically in low-power applications such as this. Also, its much more common to think to charge your cell-phone, so maybe 'charging' the battery in your gun while it resides in your safe, etc, wouldn't be so bad.

I still see a lot of negatives, such as 'what if the system doesn't unlock when I need it?' But for certain situations, maybe this system would offer some advantages? I'm thinking in particular of LEO's who are probably at the greatest risk for being shot with their own gun. Yes, there are retention holsters in wide use now, so maybe its a moot issue.

I personally would be against a 'smart' gun at this point in time. But I welcome other thoughts on the topic and would like to know what you all think?

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hso
February 25, 2014, 08:01 AM
Is this inspired by the $2,000 Armatix .22lr (http://www.armatix.us/iP1-Pistol.779.0.html?&L=7) that ignorant internet sources are lauding?

While a smart gun that only works in the hands of authorized owners has many benefits the idea of having to pay $1,400 for the handgun and another $400 for each user to purchase the key (RFID watch) is absurd unless you have more dollars than good sense.

tarosean
February 25, 2014, 08:33 AM
If it's electronic it can be hacked

I'd also be concerned with service life... While it might be okay for a gun that sees 200rds in its lifetime, what about 50-100,000rds?

Hardtarget
February 25, 2014, 08:34 AM
If its a really good idea...let the police and the Presidents secret service men use them for a year or two to show us "citizens" just how reliable the system is. Then we'll talk.

Mark

HammsBeer
February 25, 2014, 08:37 AM
I work in auto repair, and those "smart keys" that are all the rage fail more often than you would think, leaving the owner stranded and towing the vehicle to the shop. I don't want a "smart key" for my car, I deffinately don't want a "smart" gun. There is a towing service when your gun fails, it's called the coroner.

akv3g4n
February 25, 2014, 08:46 AM
As mentioned in other threads about smart guns, the real concern for me is someone being able to use jammers or other signal interrupting devices to make the firearms inoperable. You can bet that if it's possible, criminals would take advantage to make sure that they are the only one with a working firearm in that scenario. I bet they would stick to the old "dumb" guns.

pockets
February 25, 2014, 08:53 AM
Honestly? .....YAWN......
I've been reading that smart guns are here for at least the past 30 years now. Back when the battery pack for one filled the entire magazine well (single-shot anyone?).

BTW: My car's 'smart key' fob has a backup metal 'dumb key' inside of it.
.

hso
February 25, 2014, 09:00 AM
Since hacking RFID chip enabled systems is as easy as going to ebay and purchasing a kit for under $50 I'm not sure I'd need to pay these companies for multiple authorized user "keys" when I can make my own.

FAS1
February 25, 2014, 09:02 AM
Honestly? .....YAWN......
I've been reading that smart guns are here for at least the past 30 years now. Back when the battery pack for one filled the entire magazine well (single-shot anyone?).

BTW: My car's 'smart key' fob has a backup metal 'dumb key' inside of it.
.

So, this gun has a back up key for when the electronics fail?

Outlaw Man
February 25, 2014, 12:37 PM
I think that's his point. Even a technology as "standard" as smart key fobs has known unreliabilities, so much so they provide a "cheat."

Guy B. Meredith
February 25, 2014, 05:13 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=744705

herrwalther
February 25, 2014, 05:47 PM
I barely trust electronics with my firearms to store them as I have an electronic keypad lock on my full sized safe. I would never have them in order to make my weapon fire or make it safe to fire.

ETA: Anyone who thinks smart guns are a good idea watched James Bond Skyfall and (License to Kill?) too many times.

JRWhit
February 25, 2014, 05:54 PM
When you say smart gun it makes me think of this, "system update required. Please perform update to continue. "
Just saying with technology updates are a necessity as older systems become vulnerable to hacking.

Skribs
February 25, 2014, 08:34 PM
I don't want to pay extra for a potential source of failure. It's that simple.

Ridgerunner665
February 25, 2014, 09:12 PM
I don't care if it works....I still don't want it.

I am not a follower of, nor do I believe in, letting technology replace common sense.

The end result is disaster...personal responsibility is something we must hold on to...if we lose that, we've lost it all....it is part of our Freedom, the most important part....the foundation of it all.

Skribs
February 25, 2014, 09:16 PM
We've all discussed the electronic failures, what about human failures?

You left your RFID chip in your pants pocket, which is in the laundry room. Meaning you now have 2 rooms to go through to get your gun and get it working.
You lost your RFID chip.
Even in a good case scenario, you have to put your watch on to use the RFID chip in a HD situation. This is much slower than simply racking the slide or flicking off the safety.
Forget using a $50 device to make your own RFID chip. If you store it near your gun (needed for quick access), a BG will have access to it.

HexHead
February 25, 2014, 09:24 PM
I'd rather be considered a criminal than use that junk.

Ridgerunner665
February 25, 2014, 09:25 PM
Let me rephrase in light of the previous post....I don't care of it works, and they implant an RFID into each hand....I still don't want it.

Ky Larry
February 25, 2014, 09:51 PM
Would each gun come with a seperate ring,watch,whatever or could an owner of multiple guns have them coded to all work off the same ring,watch,whatever? I would hate to have to find the right gun-whatever combination while armed intruders are in my house. This is just another lib-**** feelgood idea that doesn't quite stand up in real life. Remember Murphy's Law and Murphy's Principle.

HammsBeer
February 25, 2014, 11:04 PM
"Your firearm's current version of Java is out of date. Please download the latest version and then reboot your firearm to complete the update before resuming shooting"

Guy B. Meredith
February 25, 2014, 11:39 PM
I absolutely agree with Ridgerunner665.

Like I posted elsewhere, imagine a child--little Dottie--playing with her mother's jewelry which just happens to include the ring, bracelet, watch, etc. necessary to enable the "smart" gun mommy has left laying on the jewelry table.

Or maybe the gun left laying out because the doodad is going to disable it is stolen by an older child or criminal and the mechanism defeated and bypassed.

This technology is totally bogus in preventing use by criminals or anyone else who would steal it.

shafter
February 26, 2014, 05:12 PM
I have no use for a "smart gun". Heck I have a hard enough time accepting the Tupperware stuff, never mind something with a battery in it.

RetiredUSNChief
February 27, 2014, 08:16 PM
Personally, I don't foresee any of these high-tech smart guns, whose actual function is to prevent unauthorized users via high-tech electronic means, as being anywhere near use by the military for a long time to come.

Police? Maybe. Their small arms needs are different than that of the military.

Yeah, I realize there are some high-tech military small arms designs out there, but they're not the same.

The military's concern is primarily on the battlefield, in combat against enemy forces of other countries. I don't think they'll take kindly to guns which may be hacked or jammed by enemy forces. Nor to high-tech guns which aren't hardened against EMP.

preachnhunt
February 27, 2014, 08:32 PM
Who is to say that all of the smart guns couldn't be disabled with some kind of EMP?
This is just back door gun control, i.e a solution looking for a problem. No smart guns for me.

tactikel
February 27, 2014, 09:01 PM
You can bet that any smart technology will have a back door for the government to shut off your firearm any time they please. :cuss:

TennJed
February 27, 2014, 09:15 PM
let he who has never let his cell phone battery die cast the first smart stone

Fast Frank
February 27, 2014, 09:20 PM
I think we have let the anti types do it again.

As usual, they are the ones to put the name on these guns, and as usual they got it wrong.

Truth:

The reliable, simple, accurate, and powerful guns that we have in our possession now are the "Smart Guns".

The ridiculous electronic nonsense they are trying to pawn off on us are the "Stupid Guns".

We need to refuse to use their terms here in all cases.

splattergun
February 27, 2014, 09:27 PM
A smart gun is one without all those stupid lawyer warnings on it and superfluous safeties.

Guy B. Meredith
February 28, 2014, 12:57 AM
I have it on good authority that the smart guns will take 1oMB photos, limit your shots to bulls-eye targets, connect with your home to turn off the heater and lock the doors. :evil:

RetiredUSNChief
February 28, 2014, 01:57 AM
You know, in the rebooted Battlestar Galactica series wasn't the downfall of human civilization due to all the smart technology built into their computer controlled weapons systems?

:neener:

JRWhit
February 28, 2014, 06:58 AM
I absolutely agree with Ridgerunner665.

Like I posted elsewhere, imagine a child--little Dottie--playing with her mother's jewelry which just happens to include the ring, bracelet, watch, etc. necessary to enable the "smart" gun mommy has left laying on the jewelry table.

Or maybe the gun left laying out because the doodad is going to disable it is stolen by an older child or criminal and the mechanism defeated and bypassed.

This technology is totally bogus in preventing use by criminals or anyone else who would steal it.
Great point to be made from this.^^^^
In truth no matter how elaborate the mechanism, it all falls back to personally responsibility.

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