Unsafe for children to be in homes with guns...


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FiveInADime
February 25, 2014, 11:18 AM
So says the sheet I brought home from my son's doctors office after his one-year checkup. I'm sure this has been brought up before but I had a little chuckle when my wife read that to me. I grew up in a home with all of the firearms in an unlocked closet. Mostly rifles and shotguns except for two Ruger revolvers. I was instructed from the earliest age possible that if I touched a gun without an adult present I would be promptly spanked and sent to bed without dinner (no dinner was a big deal to me). Never went near the guns, neither did any of our child visitors.

I intend to teach my son the strictest firearm safety rules from the earliest age possible just as my father did for me. It's troubling to see the anti crowd using this sort of indoctrination and it shows me that I need to do my part and then some to maintain our Constitutional right.

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morcey2
February 25, 2014, 11:24 AM
So says the sheet I brought home from my son's doctors office after his one-year checkup. I'm sure this has been brought up before but I had a little chuckle when my wife read that to me. I grew up in a home with all of the firearms in an unlocked closet. Mostly rifles and shotguns except for two Ruger revolvers. I was instructed from the earliest age possible that if I touched a gun without an adult present I would be promptly spanked and sent to bed without dinner (no dinner was a big deal to me). Never went near the guns, neither did any of our child visitors.

I intend to teach my son the strictest firearm safety rules from the earliest age possible just as my father did for me. It's troubling to see the anti crowd using this sort of indoctrination and it shows me that I need to do my part and then some to maintain our Constitutional right.
Does it cite a source? Odds are it's one of the Kellerman studies that have already been completely discredited.

FiveInADime
February 25, 2014, 11:25 AM
No, it just stated that you should not have guns in your home or allow your child in homes with firearms.

cowtownup
February 25, 2014, 11:26 AM
What about when kids play with toy guns? Do you allow them to point those guns at each other? I ask this as a serious question for I have small children and I don't want to send the wrong message for later down the road when I teach them about REAL guns. We have those nerf dart guns now... If this isn't the direction you were going with this thread just let me know and I will start a new one... Thanks...

FiveInADime
February 25, 2014, 11:37 AM
What about when kids play with toy guns? Do you allow them to point those guns at each other? I ask this as a serious question for I have small children and I don't want to send the wrong message for later down the road when I teach them about REAL guns. We have those nerf dart guns now... If this isn't the direction you were going with this thread just let me know and I will start a new one... Thanks...

Well, my one-year old doesn't have any toy guns at this point. That's an interesting thing to ponder. I was allowed to have play fights with nerf guns and such things as a child but anything starting at a Red Ryder was considered a gun and was treated with the same rules as a firearm.

heycods
February 25, 2014, 11:37 AM
All of grandpaws guns were and are loaded! Corpral punishment is used. I didnt turn out very warped :)

MachIVshooter
February 25, 2014, 11:41 AM
What about when kids play with toy guns? Do you allow them to point those guns at each other? I ask this as a serious question for I have small children and I don't want to send the wrong message for later down the road when I teach them about REAL guns.

We're talking about human children, not chimpanzees. I grew up with all kinds of toy guns, and we played with them as intended. Never once did I mistake the real thing for a toy, and I knew full well what would happen if I touched my dad's firearms without his express permission. I got my first BB gun at age 6, but I wasn't allowed to actually take possession of it until I had memorized the ten commandments. Once that was done, I was basically turned loose with the thing, with the understanding that if I ever used it on a pet or another human being, I'd have the stock broken over my posterior.

alfon99
February 25, 2014, 11:47 AM
I remember my dad didn't allow me to aim a toy gun at anyone. Even knowing that it was a toy gun. And that If I touched a real gun without him being present I would be punished. I never touched a gun without him being present.

Midwest
February 25, 2014, 11:48 AM
So says the sheet I brought home from my son's doctors office after his one-year checkup....... It's troubling to see the anti crowd using this sort of indoctrination and it shows me that I need to do my part and then some to maintain our Constitutional right.
I see it as a anti-gun bias by the medical profession. Singling out firearms as a safety issue while not mentioning other possible hazards like power tools, electricity or household cleaners underneath the sink is anti-gun bias. I would venture to guess that they failed to mention that leaving car keys out on the table would also invite the child to steal the car and run down people too.

I suggest making a copy of that sheet and submit it/ publish it to NRAILA, GOA and other pro-gun sites and related forums along with the doctor's name and address. Perhaps by exposing this, it could get the attention of other gun owners and could force the doctor (or the facility) to stop issuing this sort of paperwork.

That is how I see this

mgmorden
February 25, 2014, 11:50 AM
Yeah I have two nieces that live with me (aged 3 and 5). When I was a kid my dad kept his guns just leaning in the corner of the room (often loaded) but I do at least keep mine in a safe.

The older of the two came in while I was cleaning one of my pistols just last night and when I was function checking it and racking the slide she said "Bubba that's kinda creepy.". When I asked whey she said "Cuz I feel like you're gonna shoot me.".

She's never really had a fear of guns before so I stopped and showed her how I was pointing the gun away from her, and that my finger wasn't on the trigger, and then stressed that when you hold a gun you make sure you never point it at anyone and never touch the trigger unless you're gonna shoot it.

That peaked her curiosity and she asked when you DO shoot the gun and I explained about going to the range and such and told her I'd take her out soon (I'm hoping to get her shooting at around 8 - IMHO she's still just a bit too young, though I might start her on airsoft soon).

She already knows to come get me if she finds a random bullet lying around.

Bottom line, teach them about guns and not only are they not in any danger, but they ALSO will be much more likely to actually be able to handle them properly when they do grow up.

vamo
February 25, 2014, 11:54 AM
I'd personally have a bone to pick with that Dr

What about when kids play with toy guns? Do you allow them to point those guns at each other? I ask this as a serious question for I have small children and I don't want to send the wrong message for later down the road when I teach them about REAL guns. We have those nerf dart guns now... If this isn't the direction you were going with this thread just let me know and I will start a new one... Thanks...

Toys are toys, kids will point them at each other; how else are you suppose to play army or cops & robbers? I agree with the person that said the red rider should be treated as if its a real gun. A pellet gun was my first introduction to gun safety and it was "always loaded".

Another point on toys, I grew up just as they were adding bright orange tips to all the toys, and even though I hated at the time that's probably a good idea. There was a local incident where some kids playing with realistic looking air soft guns caused a scare; no charges or anything were filed and no one was hurt but I imagine it was a bit traumatizing.

Spats McGee
February 25, 2014, 11:54 AM
I grew up in a house where the guns were not locked up. Going hunting was fine. Going out to shoot the guns was fine, but we were expected to understand and respect the potential dangers that went with guns.

My daugher is 10 years old. She never had any toy guns, but never had any interest in them, so that wasn't an issue. She started helping me with gun cleaning when she was 6 or 7. It was a good way to introduce her to guns, the safety rules, as well as their basic parts and controls.

Around that time, I also started taking her to gun shows. I had her pick up some blue guns, some toy guns and some real guns. . . . and I made her tell me which was which. We've talked at some length about:

When and where we talk about guns.
What to do if a friend of hers wants to see one of my guns.
What to do if a friend drags out "dad's gun" when she's at someone else's house.

200Apples
February 25, 2014, 11:56 AM
.
"Unsafe for children to be in homes with guns... "

So says the sheet I brought home from my son's doctors office...


Hmph. It is "unsafer" for kids to be allowed to walk on driveways where cars are parked!

This is outrageous.

:banghead:

Carl N. Brown
February 25, 2014, 12:12 PM
Old story but. Economist Steven Levitt lost a son to illness and was in a support group for parents who had lost kids. One parent remarked that they were not going to let their kids play at little Suzie's home because the family owned guns but rather let them play at little Polly's (after all they had a nice swimming pool in the backyard). Levitt did a little math on homes with guns, homes with backyard pools, accidental home shootings and backyard drownings and concluded the pool in the backyard is 100 times more likely to kill a kid than the gun in the house.

Did the doctor pass out a letter stating that you should not have a pool in your backyard or allow your child in homes with pools?

1911 guy
February 25, 2014, 12:14 PM
Yep. Guns are dangerous, you know. But it's perfectly acceptable to encourage them in a promiscuous lifestyle that has them dead of AIDS by age 25. Don't you understand?

morcey2
February 25, 2014, 12:28 PM
FiveInADime, any way you can scan the pamphlet and post it here? I'd like to see it and take it apart. I also agree with Midwest's suggestion of sending a copy of it with the Dr's name and address to some RKBA advocacy groups.

Matt

FiveInADime
February 25, 2014, 12:32 PM
FiveInADime, any way you can scan the pamphlet and post it here? I'd like to see it and take it apart. I also agree with Midwest's suggestion of sending a copy of it with the Dr's name and address to some RKBA advocacy groups.

Matt

I can try to make that happen later today.

Godsgunman
February 25, 2014, 01:06 PM
Why you all are so misinformed its ridiculous! Don't you know that having a gun within 30 feet of any child even safely locked away and unloaded causes spontaneous combustion of all human life forms?? :p

In all seriousness I grew up around guns my whole life, not in my own house but hunting and fishing with my grandfather every summer. The gun case was unlocked and I even knew where the bullets were. I was taught at a young age gun safety and the consequences of ever handling a gun without permission. I turned out fine and with alot of good "common sense" which isn't to common nowadays.

rdhood
February 25, 2014, 01:12 PM
Did the doctor pass out a letter stating that you should not have a pool in your backyard or allow your child in homes with pools?

This. If the doctor is not passing out flyers for ALL of the top killers of children (ESPECIALLY Drowning, Fires, traffic accidents, poisoning, and suffocation, as these ALL have higher incidents of death in children than firearms), then this is nothing more than propaganda.

Your child is more likely to die from a plastic kroger bag at your neighbors house than the gun locked in his safe.
Your child is more likely to die from the pool in your neighbor's back yard than the gun locked in his safe.
Your child is more likely to die from the poison under your neighbor's sink than the gun locked in his safe.
Your child is more likely to die from the vehicle trip to the local playground with your neighbor's kid than the gun locked in your neighbor's safe.

If your doctor does not warn about ALL of these things BEFORE warning about guns, then your doctor is more concerned about the guns in your safe than your children.

Tirod
February 25, 2014, 01:14 PM
The unfortunate reality is that a child under 6 is more likely to die because 1) MOM wasn't paying any attention and they drowned in the wading pool, or 2) MOM was texting while driving and got into a fatality accident.

Kids die from negligent moms. Sorry. Read the statistics. But, for crying out loud, don't ever let out you know that. We worship the female in society today and can't ever point fingers to the real cause of death.

Where is the handout on that?

I would love to be the host of a half hour reality show explaining this kind of stuff. Piers Morgan would be considered a powderpuff after that. "And, in the lead news article, the Monster Who Demonized Women was dragged out of the studio one day after his controversial show airing the real causes of childhood death, by an angry mob of mothers. He was brutally beaten with strollers, dumped in a kiddie pool, and then run over by a caravan of SUV's with soccer team logos on the back window. His last words were - oh, we can't say that on the news. Oh well. Good riddance."

"In other news, our Saviours in the White House proposed rescinding the 2nd Amendment today, with the reason that "if it saves one child's life we should take that step." The throng of supporters outside was interrupted by police officers searching for the caretaker of two children left in a locked van four blocks away. It seems she, um they were distracted by the choice of which Starbucks to buy a latte at as both were across the street from each other. The hazards of DC life. Can you imagine - across the street from each other? What do you do?

Neo-Luddite
February 25, 2014, 01:19 PM
Our family Doctor and Dentist each have mounts/photos of the various critters they've dispatched in their offices. Our Dentist has a full mount boar on display and now owns a gun shop. Our Doctor has coached his son's shooting team. My point---don't settle for sub-par medical care from yahoos.

Sol
February 25, 2014, 01:25 PM
Funny, my doctor gave me a pamphlet that says don't go to the doctor because they inadvertantly kill people with misdiagnosis, malpractice and prescribing of bad drugs.

sauer1911
February 25, 2014, 01:26 PM
I really miss my lawn darts. sigh:(

be safe

MtnCreek
February 25, 2014, 01:32 PM
My point---don't settle for sub-par medical care from yahoos.

That is a good point. If this doc does have really bent feelings on firearms, would he be the type to call the state in when your kids is telling him about all the fun he had shooting over the weekend?

morcey2
February 25, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really miss my lawn darts. sigh:(

You and me both.

Strahley
February 25, 2014, 01:34 PM
I used to have Nerf gun battles every weekend (in a church no less) with several friends, played war games with Legos, watched violent movies, played shooter video games, even got to light a few fireworks on the 4th of July

By that doctor's logic I should have blown up the world by now. But no, my parents were actually parents and were involved with my life. They taught me right from wrong and real from play. It's really not that difficult

TUBBY1
February 25, 2014, 01:37 PM
Households with bicycles are more likely to have children who are injured. Roller skates , trampolines, ball and jacks, baseball bats, swing sets,concrete around or in their structure,etc.etc. I'm old enough to remember a kinder gentler less PC life. Common sense is no longer common. Teach your children well ? Somebody dropped the ball... I hope my grandchildren aren't on the receiving end of the socialist bull crap being shoveled by the dirt hippies I grew up with. Take care of your families .

MErl
February 25, 2014, 02:12 PM
I think I can see a point to it, Keep your kids away from guns and they cannot be harmed by them. remove one of the many causes of "accidental death."

There are problems with this solution though. Foremost it completely ignores the real issue of how your child should respond to a gun. If they know to not play with them, not even touch them unless they know how to use them then there is not any problem. They Will encounter a gun at some point in their lives.

The blanket statement assumes you have complete control over your child. That is true at 1yr, maybe at 3yr, absolutely untrue above 5yr.

Much better to teach your children to respect guns, know not to play with them and if someone else is playing with one go find an adult (because taking one away could be very dangerous).


I'd be interested to know the source for the pamphlet. Is it something the Dr made up or was it provided by some agency. The AMA is known anti group though and a likely source. Does it contain the top 10 causes of accidental deaths or just single out firearms...

FiveInADime
February 25, 2014, 02:12 PM
That is a good point. If this doc does have really bent feelings on firearms, would he be the type to call the state in when your kids is telling him about all the fun he had shooting over the weekend?

I don't know what our particular pediatrician's direct beliefs on firearms are. This clinic is large and is a branch of a local group of pediatric doctors. I have heard of similar information given out at hospitals and such and I think, by in large, the medical community is anti-gun. I can't say that I would change doctors based on these beliefs because we feel that our particular doctor is very good with our son. I am going to ask him directly at our next appointment about the literature and what he feels about it.

Tinman357
February 25, 2014, 02:16 PM
You guys are going about it the wrong way. Next time you go in have that flier with you. Print out the study that shows you are far more likely to be killed by a medical professional. Dress it up a bit so its similar to the one you were given. List the top 50 causes of death to children as stated by the CDC.

He's going to get insulted. Let him know you feel the same way. I made some of these accurate and informative brochures. I tell people to look up the stats at the appropriate websites.

It won't immediately change anyone's position, but it will get them thinking. Quite often that can have a profound effect on the anti-gun brain washing.

I've had numerous vocal anti's approach me for advice about guns. Mostly women. In reality, most self proclaimed anti's are just misinformed people so busy with their lives that they don't really think about it that much. They just go with what the media thinks. Don't get confrontational and emotional.

The truth and facts are on our side. Calm, informed discussion can and does change the hearts and minds of low information voters. Inform them. Support your position with proveable facts. Accept that they have been misled and inform them.

brboyer
February 25, 2014, 02:21 PM
I see it as a anti-gun bias by the medical profession. Singling out firearms as a safety issue while not mentioning other possible hazards like power tools, electricity or household cleaners underneath the sink is anti-gun bias. I would venture to guess that they failed to mention that leaving car keys out on the table would also invite the child to steal the car and run down people too.

I suggest making a copy of that sheet and submit it/ publish it to NRAILA, GOA and other pro-gun sites and related forums along with the doctor's name and address. Perhaps by exposing this, it could get the attention of other gun owners and could force the doctor (or the facility) to stop issuing this sort of paperwork.

That is how I see this
Won't help.
NRA/GOA ares very well aware of the activities of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

This is an openly anti-firearm organization. Well, I say openly, they have tried to fly under the radar in the last couple years. They actually removed their blatant anti-firearm position statement from their website, and have now instead focused their propaganda on this "Critical Public Health Concern". :banghead:

wally
February 25, 2014, 02:58 PM
Do they point out that swimming pools kill more kids than guns?

Need we mention the mortality from medical "mistakes"?

Midwest
February 25, 2014, 02:58 PM
Won't help.
NRA/GOA ares very well aware of the activities of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

This is an openly anti-firearm organization. Well, I say openly, they have tried to fly under the radar in the last couple years. They actually removed their blatant anti-firearm position statement from their website, and have now instead focused their propaganda on this "Critical Public Health Concern". :banghead:
This thread is already up to 33 responses so far, there is big interest in this. Many of us are tired of this bias against firearms by the medical profession. I say let them know how we feel about it. The point is, if we get enough people involved and complain, maybe these little notices will stop being sent to parents. I know the medical profession is anti-gun, I wasn't aware that they are stooping this low.

I'm not certain that all gun owners were aware that these notices are being sent home to the parents. Some of us here were a bit surprised and understandably upset over it. Lets keep them from 'flying under the radar', lets send a message that their anti-gun bias is not appreciated and that we as law abiding gun owners know how to manage our children better than any doctor, doctor's office, medical group or any anti-gun organization.

I say expose it for what it is...anti-gun bias. I think others will be interested that these anti-gun notices are being sent home to the parents.

.

cambeul41
February 25, 2014, 03:36 PM
Won't help.
NRA/GOA ares very well aware of the activities of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Ah, ha! Then you tell the doctor what you did – even if you didn't really do it – and maybe he will sweat a little.

Dframe
February 25, 2014, 03:39 PM
My doctor is NOT a willing participant in any anti gun propaganda. He's an avid "Cowboy Action" shooter. Whenever I see him we usually end up talking guns.

Guy B. Meredith
February 25, 2014, 06:19 PM
Just don't store the guns in the toy box or along side candy.

herrwalther
February 25, 2014, 06:51 PM
My mother likes to joke that since I wasn't allowed to play with many toy firearms as a kid, that is why I have real firearms now. But I have always had an interest in them.

Toy firearms will be part of the lesson when my son (9 months old now) and any other future ones start learning. One of them is a bolt action nerf gun with a magazine, just like a rifle I have. Once he can be safe with that around, then he will graduate to the 10/22 at the range with me.

Tcruse
February 25, 2014, 07:10 PM
I see it as a anti-gun bias by the medical profession. Singling out firearms as a safety issue while not mentioning other possible hazards like power tools, electricity or household cleaners underneath the sink is anti-gun bias. I would venture to guess that they failed to mention that leaving car keys out on the table would also invite the child to steal the car and run down people too.

I suggest making a copy of that sheet and submit it/ publish it to NRAILA, GOA and other pro-gun sites and related forums along with the doctor's name and address. Perhaps by exposing this, it could get the attention of other gun owners and could force the doctor (or the facility) to stop issuing this sort of paperwork.

That is how I see this
Change doctors as step one.

HisStigness
February 25, 2014, 09:40 PM
We're talking about human children, not chimpanzees. I grew up with all kinds of toy guns, and we played with them as intended. Never once did I mistake the real thing for a toy, and I knew full well what would happen if I touched my dad's firearms without his express permission. I got my first BB gun at age 6, but I wasn't allowed to actually take possession of it until I had memorized the ten commandments. Once that was done, I was basically turned loose with the thing, with the understanding that if I ever used it on a pet or another human being, I'd have the stock broken over my posterior.
Was it the Ten Commandments or the ten commandments of firearms safety? I guess either one would do the job.

Cee Zee
February 26, 2014, 03:25 AM
Not too long ago doctors stopped treating kids from families where guns were kept in the house. They called it a "health issue". Many doctors are rabidly anti-gun. That's ok. I know people that are rabidly anti-doctors. An outcry from citizens made that "refuse to treat" stuff go away when a law was passed to end it. But I strongly suspect that guns will be considered a "health issue" once again once Obamacare gets rolling. They want control over your life so they can make you a slave. And if they pull your teeth it's hard to bite them back.

Hacker15E
February 26, 2014, 10:23 AM
Man, I have guns and a swimming pool. My kids must be long since dead.

Paul7
February 26, 2014, 11:11 AM
I see it as a anti-gun bias by the medical profession. Singling out firearms as a safety issue while not mentioning other possible hazards like power tools, electricity or household cleaners underneath the sink is anti-gun bias. I would venture to guess that they failed to mention that leaving car keys out on the table would also invite the child to steal the car and run down people too.

I suggest making a copy of that sheet and submit it/ publish it to NRAILA, GOA and other pro-gun sites and related forums along with the doctor's name and address. Perhaps by exposing this, it could get the attention of other gun owners and could force the doctor (or the facility) to stop issuing this sort of paperwork.

That is how I see this
Exactly, that med office needs to be told its none of their business if there's a gun in the home, that it isn't a medical matter, and that in your opinion a defenseless child is less safe.

rondog
February 26, 2014, 02:07 PM
Heh, a friend of mine's father is a doctor, and his gun collection would rival a small museum's. Including many Class III weapons and "devices".

MacTech
February 26, 2014, 03:17 PM
I actually found a set of lawn darts at a local antique store, bought them, and have been.....

Teaching my nephew and niece to use them safely (put the target hoops at one end of the pitch, and each player tries to land their dart in their ring, instead of having rings at opposite ends and throwing towards the other players)

HisStigness
February 26, 2014, 03:25 PM
I actually found a set of lawn darts at a local antique store, bought them, and have been.....

Teaching my nephew and niece to use them safely (put the target hoops at one end of the pitch, and each player tries to land their dart in their ring, instead of having rings at opposite ends and throwing towards the other players)

Are lawn darts legal in your state? They are quite illegal in my home state. There's nothing dangerous about lawn darts if used properly, the same as guns.

Carl N. Brown
February 26, 2014, 03:55 PM
When were lawn darts introduced?

One summer in the mid 1950s, our uncle who was a Lt. in the National Guard gave me and my brother Jeff a spent inert 3.5" bazooka rocket which we threw about the backyard in our own version of lawn dart games.

shafter
February 26, 2014, 04:07 PM
I was instructed from the earliest age possible that if I touched a gun without an adult present I would be promptly spanked and sent to bed without dinner (no dinner was a big deal to me). Never went near the guns, neither did any of our child visitors.


This sounds exactly like the instructions I received. I never touched a gun and never went to bed hungry (a big deal to me as well)

gym
February 26, 2014, 06:51 PM
I think that things don't become a big deal unless you make a big deal about them

slumlord44
February 27, 2014, 12:16 AM
On the next visit to the doctor I would take the flyer and have a calm discussion with him about it. If he would persist in passing these out I would switch doctors. If insurance is an issue I would have a discussion with them also. Sadly because of the limits of some insurance policies you may not have the option of switching.

C5rider
February 27, 2014, 07:31 AM
I remember my dad didn't allow me to aim a toy gun at anyone. Even knowing that it was a toy gun. And that If I touched a real gun without him being present I would be punished. I never touched a gun without him being present.

I could have written this. We were always the "weird" kids, telling our friends that "you shouldn't ever point a gun at someone!" toy or not. Thankfully, dad used those terms. Could you imagine a 5-year old saying something like, "only at something you intend to destroy/kill"? :eek:

Sure, situations will come up later in life where that may change (heaven forbid) but we could make that determination when we're much older/mature.

Deltaboy
February 27, 2014, 08:42 AM
When my daughter was Little we got some of these nonsense from her doctor. I threw it in the trash and on their parent questionnaire I wrote on the gun line NA .

jrdolall
February 27, 2014, 09:37 AM
My kids have been around guns since they were born. When they were younger it was nothing for them to see 6-10 guns in the living room as I was cleaning them. They simply accepted them and we had plenty of discussions about how to handle them.

Guns can certainly be dangerous. Loaded guns that are within reach of a child CAN be dangerous especially if the child is unfamiliar with firearms. Let's face it kids are curious and a child from a home that doesn't have firearms is going to be curious about them. If he picks one up to "look" at it then bad things can happen. It's all about safety. Leaving loaded guns where a child can get to them is dangerous. Leaving knives where a child can get to them is dangerous. Leaving Tylenol where a child can get at it is dangerous. The only time we ever had an emergency at my home was when my daughter got into a bottle of Aleve and put about 10 in her mouth. We took her to the ER but there was no way to know if she swallowed any so we just watched her. We DID NOT remove all medicines from our home but we made sure we didn't leave it out anymore.

Check out some websites about hot dogs. There are groups that advocate getting rid of hot dogs because of the choking hazards. The American Academy of Pediatrics considers hot dogs to be a "dangerous child killer". There are many schools that don't allow a kid to bring a peanut butter sandwich to school because some other kid MAY have an allergy to nuts. We live in a world that is becoming scared of it's own shadow. The last I read I think that choking on a hot dog accounted for about 10 deaths per year in the USA. 10 deaths in a population of 300 million is not statistically significant. For nut allergies that number is about 37 in the entire population of 300 million.

The point is that there will always be a group somewhere that opposes everything you and I do on a daily basis and they will normally get some "airtime" through some media outlet. Talk to the doctor face to face. If he can't/won't change his attitude then simply tell him you will find another doctor. Or accept that you disagree and keep using him if you like him otherwise.

FiveInADime
February 27, 2014, 10:55 AM
There are many schools that don't allow a kid to bring a peanut butter sandwich to school because some other kid MAY have an allergy to nuts. We live in a world that is becoming scared of it's own shadow.


I have a half-brother that is five and has the most serious level of a deadly peanut allergy. My stepmom decided to home school him rather than ask the small public school in their rural community to try and accommodate him. He is very sharp and I think he would be fine in school but when it's your child the fear of a deadly mistake is your WORST fear.

My dad and stepmother agree that it is their situation to handle and refuse to saddle the school and the children in it with the responsibility of keeping him safe.

Pilot
February 27, 2014, 11:01 AM
Just more of the anti (legal) gun agenda from the CDC, or whatever health organization that ignores the other, real threats to children, yet chooses to focus on legally owned guns, by responsible gun owners.

jrdolall
February 27, 2014, 11:03 AM
^^I know that's a tough situation and I can understand both sides of the argument. Why should your brother be subjected to even the slightest possibility of being exposed to a deadly allergen in a school where he is FORCED to go every day?
I applaud the family for taking the responsibility for their child's safety.

BTW Homeschooling will probably be the best thing that ever happens to him.

Tirod
February 27, 2014, 11:17 AM
Man, I have guns and a swimming pool. My kids must be long since dead.

Ours tried making a 3 foot pool into a big swirly. It collapsed and filled the basement. Didn't kill them. Their mother nearly did, tho.

In the day, I not only got to light fireworks, we could buy them for $1.50 a gross, and with a paycheck, you could buy a dozen gross. So, off to the abandoned mining waste piles of gravel where we would host battles on the 4th of July shooting them at each other and the various drunks, celebrants, and funtimers. It was literally a blast. Roman candles were used as artillery and flaming cones were hand grenades.

Today's generations of safety mavens need to step back and take a deep breath. What we lack are fathers to help supervise this kind of thing, so, our children got to light their own fireworks, and they also got to swim in the pool with supervision (except that one time. . . )

Doctor's see a lot of what can go wrong, we no longer have many fathers in the home, and the Doctor's "Union" feels responsible to make up the difference.

Who's fault is that?

FiveInADime
February 27, 2014, 11:21 AM
BTW Homeschooling will probably be the best thing that ever happens to him.

Yes, I agree but maybe not for every child. My stepmom has the skill set and intelligence to educate her children beyond what the public school could provide and leave out the indoctrination that public school students receive in certain areas.

I plan to take my child's education into my own hands regardless of where he goes to school. Parents are their children's biggest influence only if they choose to be, in my experience.

jlucke69
February 27, 2014, 03:13 PM
When I started in Foster Care, they asked us about guns in the house. After showing that they were locked and cared for, they had no concerns with them. They had more concerns with the fact that I was reloading because of the risk of accidental exposure to lead. I showed how I kept that locked too and there were no more concerns. If you are responsible with your firearms, lead exposure is probably a bigger concern for little ones than guns.

tlynch
February 27, 2014, 07:58 PM
Funny, my doctor gave me a pamphlet that says don't go to the doctor because they inadvertantly kill people with misdiagnosis, malpractice and prescribing of bad drugs.

This is no joke. Not specific to children, but medical mistakes kill 200,000-400,000 people per year. And for additional irony, here is a link (http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/09/20/224507654/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals) to some reporting from NPR on the topic, citing a Journal of Patient Safety article. Apparently, only heart disease and cancer kill more Americans than health care professionals.

Regards,
Tom

Backpacker33
February 27, 2014, 09:07 PM
Our former family doctor, now having left the field due to O'bamacare, was given that questionnaire to perpetrate upon his patients. To his credit, he pointed it out and advised me not to answer it. I didn't

58limited
February 27, 2014, 09:11 PM
It is unsafe for children to be in a home with Drano, gasoline, hot water, plants with pointy stems, electrical outlets, etc. So many dangerous things, why don't we just lock the kids in a padded room and never let them out?

redbullitt
February 28, 2014, 03:20 AM
I was pretty worried when my S and W tried to get up and do some shooting while I was asleep. Glad the internal lock kept it in check until got up for work.

In all seriousness this seems to be a very common trend in the medical and even dental fields. Birds of a feather I suppose… but it is quite aggravating that people are putting things like this out there constantly. I cringe when I think of how many people rhetoric like this reaches and they think hmmm plausible. I better take up knitting with safety needles or something.

KTXdm9
February 28, 2014, 09:08 AM
I'd find a new doctor.

Pizzapinochle
February 28, 2014, 09:25 AM
It is unsafe for children to be in a home with Drano, gasoline, hot water, plants with pointy stems, electrical outlets, etc. So many dangerous things, why don't we just lock the kids in a padded room and never let them out?

Seems like people mention those things to, and more often than firearms.

There is not a huge anti-gun conspiracy among doctors. Ppl who have an interest in preventing injuries to children want to advise ppl of potential risk factors. Guns are one (of many) risk factors.

Look through these. Every one of them mentions falls, fire, drowning, and poisoning. A few mention firearms. It is one of many risk factors ppl should be aware of, nothing more, nothing less. Obviously an individual Dr. may have a personal bias, but on the whole, they are just putting out information to provide information.

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/at-home/pages/Home-Safety-Heres-How.aspx

http://www.whattoexpect.com/nursery-decorating/childproofing-basics.aspx


http://www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/safety/tips/make-your-home-healthier-9-ways-to-make-your-house-healthy-and-safe/?page=1

http://www.babycenter.com/0_childproofing-around-the-house_460.bc?showAll=true

http://www.ghc.org/healthAndWellness/?item=/common/healthAndWellness/children/parentingChild/homeSafe.html

zonzin
February 28, 2014, 04:16 PM
Bring 2 beautiful daughters into the world, check.
Backyard swimming pool, check.
Several guns in the house, check
Trampoline in the back yard, check.
Raise them responsibly, check.
Both daughters are excellent shots, check.
Both daughters are excellent swimmers check.

Just sayin'.

.

Fiv3r
February 28, 2014, 05:19 PM
I'm a worrier, but I feel confident enough that my daughter is safer with a gun in the house than not.

She's 3 and a half and has just started to figure out what a gun is and what it is for...kinda. She found a gun shaped controller for our old Nintendo Wii and runs around "squirting" you. She pretends it's a water gun. We haven't had any of those, so I dunno where she learned that, but it's not like I'm sheltering her from water guns...just never much use for them around the house until she was old enough to play with one:evil:

Recently, I had a good long talk with her, well as much of a long talk as you can have with a 3 year old. I told her that it was fine to play with pretend guns (the Wii gun is white plastic with bits of blue), but I told her that real guns are very, very serious business. That she was NEVER to touch a real gun be it at our house or at a friends. I asked her what she should do, "Don't touch it. Go get daddy.":)

I keep every gun in my house locked up. Only two are loaded at any time. One rides in a Nano Vault in my truck. The other in an electronic bedside safe. All of my ammo and spare magazines are locked up away from my guns themselves. Those weapons are not for HD duty and are for recreation. She knows not to ever, ever touch the safe or anything else without me being with her. Actually, the room the guns are in is my "Man Cave". NO ONE is supposed to be in there BUT me:evil:

So I tested her out a couple weeks ago. We were getting ready for me to take her to daycare in the morning. I took the cylinder out of my already unloaded black powder revolver and put it on the floor by her shoes (just to make this clear: The gun in no way shape or form had any way of functioning). I called for her to go get her shoes on and waited around the corner to see what she would do when she saw it.

That little stinker stopped dead in her tracks, turned on her heels, and yelled "Daddy! Daddy! I found a gun! I can't touch it. I could get hurt, hurt, hurt and have to go to the doctor!" :cool:

We stopped and got an ice cream on the way home that evening:)

orionengnr
February 28, 2014, 05:58 PM
Find a new doctor.
Make sure and tell the old one why you are dropping him.
And if you want to twist the blade a little, ask him how many people doctors kill every year. :D

Kiln
February 28, 2014, 10:40 PM
It is important to take precautions when you've got young kids in the house but that doesn't mean eliminating guns from the house, it just means storing them in a safe place. Just saying "don't touch them" isn't always good enough.

Still though, I'd find a new doctor.

theotherwaldo
March 1, 2014, 03:08 AM
Doctors are far more dangerous than guns.

They're just trying to distract you and shift the blame.

hartcreek
March 1, 2014, 03:21 AM
I started my niece and nephew shooting at three. My Great nephew at four. My nephew was at parties where someone had a firearm and they were showing it around. He got it first and unloaded the weapon and then put it away from the partiers.

If I had not given him firearms training at an early age undoubtably something would have happened at one of these parties.


Now to the airsoft thing....here locally some idiot pointed an airsoft at a police officers from inside his car at a carwash. The idiot was killed.

As far as this physician.....publish his pamplet and get it to those that will do something about his dissimination of misinformation.

RetiredUSNChief
March 1, 2014, 04:41 AM
What about when kids play with toy guns? Do you allow them to point those guns at each other? I ask this as a serious question for I have small children and I don't want to send the wrong message for later down the road when I teach them about REAL guns. We have those nerf dart guns now... If this isn't the direction you were going with this thread just let me know and I will start a new one... Thanks...

I played with toy guns, as well. Cops and Robbers, Cowboys and Indians...and yes, we pointed them at each other all the time.

Never had that problem from BB gun on, though.

Of course, I never had a problem understanding the difference between cartoon violence and real life, either.

I think we need to quit treating children (and humans in general) as somehow incapable of making the distinction between fantasy and reality. Only an extremely tiny fraction of the human population is truely incapable of this.

kilotanker22
March 1, 2014, 02:56 PM
my children are 3 years old and six years old

i onced recieved a similar paper from the preschool my daughter went to and i asked her teacher does it really matter to you what is in my home? she responded with yes because they are concerned with every childs saftey a state ment to which i can not object.

the other teacher in the classroom took a very different opinion. either way i told them that my firearms are out of reach {although displayed in my home} and further more my children know better than to touch any firearm unless dad hands it to them.

i began to familiarize the kids with firearms since my daughter turned 3 and about a year ago when my son turned 3. they watch me clean my weapons dissasemble them and both can name major features of my firearms as well as the difference in ammunition.

my kids are very well taught i guess you could say and the greatest thing about teaching my children everything that i possibly can about guns is this

I HAVE NOT ONCE HAD TO SCOLD MY CHILDREN FOR TOUCHING A FIREARM!!



NUFF SAID

CharlieDeltaJuliet
March 1, 2014, 06:40 PM
I would also, find a new doctor. I walked out my daughters pediatricians office because they started asking about firearms, and explaining how bad they are. Crazy part is they had no signage up, and I was legally carrying one of my Sigs.

HexHead
March 1, 2014, 08:08 PM
I'd find a new doctor and make sure the previous doc knew why he was losing a patient.

george29
March 1, 2014, 08:54 PM
The modern home is built from materials which turn it into an inferno within 6 minutes which doesn't matter because the toxic environment will kill within 4 from the time the fire retains momentum. Air ducts collect spores that can cause Legionares Disease. Tap water contains metals and other carcinogenic materials. The germs, bacteria, mold, spores and mildew in our carpets are breeding grounds for bacterial warfare. Older homes still have walls painted with lead and asbestos still insulates these older homes. Our medicine cabinets are full of unused (and therefore illegal) medications. A cat bite or scratch can lead to sepsis. I haven't even started with ladders, chemicals in the garage and under the sink or homes with smoke alarms that don't function due to no batteries. Motor vehicles? Don't get me started. Doctors aren't anymore, they are no more than glorified pill pushers. In conclusion, what do you call the doctor that graduated last in his class? Doctor! I rest my case.

Liberty1776
March 1, 2014, 09:02 PM
Unsafe for children to be in homes with guns

heh. That concept would give my kids a chuckle....

gonoles_1980
March 1, 2014, 11:01 PM
I grew up with my dad and grandpa's guns hanging on a rack. I had my own pellet gun at 6 and shot my first shotgun at 8. I went to HS with kids having shotguns in racks in the back of their pickups. Kids are more likely to die in a car accident.

RetiredUSNChief
March 1, 2014, 11:44 PM
An interesting bit of trivia here from a couple links:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals

The first was posted in 2004 and claims 195,000 deaths annually from medical errors.

The second was posted last year claims preventable errors contributed to the deaths of 210,000 people in hospitals annually. "That is the baseline. The actual number more than doubles, James reasoned, because the trigger tool doesn’t catch errors in which treatment should have been provided but wasn’t, because it’s known that medical records are missing some evidence of harm, and because diagnostic errors aren’t captured."


Soooo....how does the medical community's record stack up against the firearms deaths?

Well, let's take a look at the following link, from the medical community no less:

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

"In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012)."


And then there's this link:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/31/theblaze-fact-checks-abc-did-diane-sawyer-use-misleading-stats-in-2020-report-on-children-and-guns/

Which specifically cites the 2010 CDC statistic of 369 child deaths due to firearms in 2010.


Looking up some other statistics, I found that there were 661,400 practicing doctors in the United States in 2008. There are currently over 117 MILLION households with firearms in the United States.


117 million households with firearms, 369 annual child deaths due to firearms and 31,000 annual deaths due to firearms total.

661,400 practicing doctors and up to 440,000 deaths due to medical errors.

Seems to me that the medical community needs to put themselves at the top of the list on brochures, hmmm?

GlassEye
March 2, 2014, 01:17 AM
117 million households with firearms, 369 annual child deaths due to firearms and 31,000 annual deaths due to firearms total.

661,400 practicing doctors and up to 440,000 deaths due to medical errors.

Seems to me that the medical community needs to put themselves at the top of the list on brochures, hmmm?
As a percentage, the numbers are not looking good for doctors.:eek:
.000315% child deaths due to firearms/households with firearms
.026% total deaths due to firearms/households with firearms
66.5% death by doctor/practicing doctors

theotherwaldo
March 2, 2014, 02:22 AM
Like I said, doctors are far more dangerous than guns.

If an ordinary person kills someone every two years with a gun that person is a serial killer.

If a doctor kills someone every two years that doctor is better than average.

-And they have the gall to complain about gun owners!

ApacheCoTodd
March 2, 2014, 01:55 PM
Sure it is! Of course it is!


When those children have irresponsible tools for parents!

Paladin7
March 3, 2014, 09:58 PM
I had the same experience with my pediatrician when my kids were younger. When i questioned the doctor about it, she got sanctimonious about it and went on a rabid uninformed anti-gun rant...ie. we will take your guns away. Then she asked me forcibly how my guns were stored. If I answered this question wrong she implied that she would report me to the "authorities."

The best way to handle this is to tell the doctor that he/she should be careful what he/she says because this is a boundary violation and refuse to answer any questions about your guns or how they are stored. In my case, I let her know that if any "authorities" arrived at my house, she would have a major problem on her hands and to shut her big mouth and keep her political views to herself. She quickly shut her big stupid mouth.

Then, find another doctor who is sympathetic to our cause...

gym
March 5, 2014, 12:43 PM
I can't even find a doctor that takes my ppo. I guess they reserve those rules for the crowd that drive their kids to a different activity every few hours, then wonder why they have ADD.

ROCK6
March 8, 2014, 01:36 PM
Funny, my doctor gave me a pamphlet that says don't go to the doctor because they inadvertantly kill people with misdiagnosis, malpractice and prescribing of bad drugs

Ironic as it is, I recently saw the statistics (can't remember the year, like 2012 I think) where it showed the number of deaths from malpractice compared to firearms-related deaths (all categories I think). It was extremely lopsided and you were like 6000 times more likely to die from the hands of a doctor than a firearm.

I would be more concerned seeing a doctor in my house than a gun:D

ETA - I found it. Statistics are pretty valid from 2000, but the comparison is more for humor since most the "doctor" related deaths include wrongly prescribed medication or those who are close to terminally ill. Still, I plan to tell any doctor with such material that I'm statistically 9000 more times at risk of death being in a hospital than around a gun in my home!


FACTS TO PONDER :
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.

(Calculation) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now think about this:

Guns:

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.

(Yes, that's 80 million..)

(B) The number of accidental gun death per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

(Calculation) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.

Statistics courtesy of FBI

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Remember, 'Guns don't kill people, doctors do.'

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.

We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!
ROCK6

DavidMS
March 8, 2014, 02:18 PM
Its a standard fear issue. What you don't know you don't understand. What you don't understand you fear. The best way out is to offer a CME class for medical professionals regarding firearms safety in the home.

I don't have kids but may one day. If so, I will need to bring this up early and include that its negligent to recommend trigger locks (cable locks though the magazine well are good, a RSC is better).

Babylon
March 8, 2014, 07:42 PM
I have 5 kids all under 6 years old and they all know what a gun is, where I keep it, that it is very dangerous and that they should never touch it.

At first my 3 boys were really curious about it I let them hold it (unloaded of course) let them hold it and handle it and I told them that this was not like their toys and it was not like the TV.

They all got a chance to hold the gun and ease their curiosity. I took them out and fired the gun the sound was enough to scare them from wanting to ever go near it again.

My daughters were scared from the sound and they don't even like to go in the same room as the gun, the boys
were interested for about 10 minutes realized that it was only so much fun and then they lost interest.

They will mention the gun now and again and I am happy to talk to them about guns.

My thought was that if I were to hide guns around the house and not tell them about it and not show them what it was capable of they would eventually find it. I don't care how well you hide it, or how secure kids will eventually find their way in or find your stash. Kids need to know what firearms are and educating them is the only way to avoid accidents.

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