Anti-gun groups lobby Facebook and Instagram to change policies


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Vector
February 27, 2014, 02:18 PM
They never stop trying to get in the backdoor.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/groups-lobby-facebook-change-policies/?utm_source=Digital+Trends+Newsletter&utm_campaign=501c8e774d-RSS_DAILY_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a5ea9c36a5-501c8e774d-396488465

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AWorthyOpponent
February 27, 2014, 02:34 PM
They want to make it so you can't sell guns on Facebook...it's already "against their policies." I assume for liability reasons. Never done it personally, but I don't see why it would matter if the laws were all followed.

Those mothers should go back to watching their kids so they don't end up doing drugs...

Red Wind
February 27, 2014, 03:30 PM
They never stop trying to get in the backdoor.

They really can't help themselves. It's wired in their DNA. :rolleyes:

marv
February 27, 2014, 06:50 PM
It ain't working. I did a f t f on facebook this week.

garymc
February 27, 2014, 10:13 PM
I think these anti civil rights groups and their hate speach denigrating gun ownership should be banned from all social media.

AWorthyOpponent
February 28, 2014, 12:46 AM
I think these anti civil rights groups and their hate speach denigrating gun ownership should be banned from all social media.

Like

Kiln
February 28, 2014, 09:24 PM
Oh my god! Websites with users setting up face to face sales? It is terrifying. It is almost as scary as seeing guns for sale in the paper or on Armslist.

USAF_Vet
February 28, 2014, 09:29 PM
I've bought and sold guns via Facebook. Can't stop the free market.

mrvco
February 28, 2014, 09:41 PM
Facebook is a downward spiral of vapidity.

Trent
February 28, 2014, 11:14 PM
Facebook is a downward spiral of vapidity.

Should join some pro-gun, fishing, and hunting groups on there. All I see on my wall is page after page of guns, reloading stuff, and dead animals.

Kiln
March 1, 2014, 06:25 PM
But the website itself datamines and sells information and is very obviously a liberal, anti-gun company. I refuse to support it in any way.

nwilliams
March 2, 2014, 12:22 AM
I am curious about this statement:

“You can’t buy things on Instagram and Facebook, nor can you promote the sale or use of weapons in advertising,” a Facebook spokesperson told VentureBeat. “We encourage people who come across any illegal activity to report it to us.”

So does that mean that it's against Facebook policy for gun companies and gun shops to promote their products?

JoePfeiffer
March 2, 2014, 01:18 AM
So does that mean that it's against Facebook policy for gun companies and gun shops to promote their products?

That would seem to be the policy -- but they must have an extremely narrow definition of "promote" based on the Beretta and CZ pages I watch.

Nickel Plated
March 2, 2014, 08:28 AM
I think these anti civil rights groups and their hate speach denigrating gun ownership should be banned from all social media.

And here I thought we were the pro-constitution, pro-civil rights side.

Tejicano Loco
March 4, 2014, 09:00 AM
“You can’t buy things on Instagram and Facebook, nor can you promote the sale or use of weapons in advertising,” a Facebook spokesperson told VentureBeat. “We encourage people who come across any illegal activity to report it to us.”

Let's read through this carefully.

“You can’t buy things on Instagram and Facebook" - OK, fine. I am not buying anything on Facebook. I am arranging to meet somebody for a sale via facebook - so no problem there.

"nor can you promote the sale or use of weapons in advertising,” - OK, neither I nor the other party will arrange this through advertising - it will probably be via messages of some sort - so we are clear here too.

“We encourage people who come across any illegal activity to report it to us.” - I do too. Nothing about any sale I might arrange with some other party on Facebook would be illegal or I would never do it.

If Facebook policy has some other aspects to it which were not discussed here then they would have to state those clearly.

Maybe some anti-gun bigots lack the reading comprehension ability to understand what was stated here or maybe they are trying to read something that wasn't stated. None of that is my problem.

I am not playing semantics nor twisting their words to fit what I want to hear - but I can clearly state that the anti-gun side is doing just that.

jimmyraythomason
March 4, 2014, 09:15 AM
Here's an example of a Facebook gun trading forum. I am a member of about forty such groups(I would be on more but many have a 21 year old age minimum and I won't support them since our state has an 18 year old age limit for buying, selling owning guns ,even handguns). This is just ONE of many reasons I use Facebook daily.https://www.facebook.com/groups/155376067961048/

TenDriver
March 4, 2014, 09:54 AM
http://venturebeat.com/2014/03/03/facebook-to-announce-policy-changes-on-gun-themed-pages-exclusive/

I have little doubt Facebook will fold on this. Time to add some pressure from the other side.

Frosty Dave
March 4, 2014, 05:59 PM
Maybe it's just coincidence, but I usually see 1 to 3 "recommendations" for self-defense and shooting sports pages on the FB right side column. Today I don't see any and when I click the "see all" recommendations there is not a single gun or 2A page of any kind in the list.

ETA: 24 hours later after watching closely, I see two gun related pages recommended to me. I declare myself a false alarm.

Midwest
March 4, 2014, 07:16 PM
I appreciate the GOA alerts on FB, if they get thrown off...I'm done with Facebook.

MErl
March 5, 2014, 01:06 PM
surprise!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=286267355
Under pressure from gun control advocates, Facebook agreed Wednesday to delete posts from users selling illegal guns or offering weapons for sale without background checks.
New York has some of the nation's toughest gun laws. It requires a background check for private gun sales and prohibits sales of some popular firearms, such as the AR-15 rifle.

Under the new policy, Facebook would allow a user in Texas to list an AR-15 for sale, since the gun is legal there, as long as it wasn't offered for sale in states where the weapon is illegal. But the company would delete a similar post from someone in New York.

It would also remove posts from any state in which a gun seller says a background check will be skipped, even if such checks aren't required where the seller lives.

So BG check is now a requirement for facebook (or at least a don't ask don't tell policy). They are also going to police posts based on local laws (or more likely allow anyone to flag and instantly remove)

SilentStalker
March 5, 2014, 01:16 PM
http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/articles/3759-facebook-vows-to-crack-down-on-gun-sale-posts#sthash.eeDo1cYH.TPQKYapV.dpbs

Wow. What is this a police state now?

Pizzapinochle
March 5, 2014, 01:19 PM
Wow... You do realize facebook and instagram are private companies, not gov't agencies? Nothing they choose to do or not do will ever lead to a "police state."

Sam Cade
March 5, 2014, 01:24 PM
The company specifically targets guns by warning potential sellers that they must “comply with relevant laws and regulations” and will only allow those over the age of 18 to read the posts.

Sounds smart to me.

Pizzapinochle
March 5, 2014, 01:25 PM
So BG check is now a requirement for facebook (or at least a don't ask don't tell policy).

No, just don't post...

"Super gun 8000 for sale: $500
NO BACKGROUND CHECK,"

...and you will be fine. They don't want people intentionally advertising "I won't ask any questions, so if you are a criminal buy from me." Which, honestly, responsible local groups should police themselves for such behavior anyway. I know mine does.

MErl
March 5, 2014, 01:36 PM
PP, did you miss the part in the parentheses? FB will delete a post advertising a legal activity, "FTF in Topeka area" for example, but if you just don't say that but still do it all is well.

Sam, under 18 are not allowed to read for sale ads any more? Sounds like good way to drive newcomers away. As for not allowing advertising of obviously criminal acts, not gonna fault anyone for that.

ivankerley
March 5, 2014, 02:01 PM
ive long since quit getting irritated with Facebook and the like, their house their rules, i use it to keep in touch with some friends and family i dont get to see.
I dont like it but i put up with it for now
Gene

vamo
March 5, 2014, 02:16 PM
Ok so you can't list a gun that is illegal in your state, you can't advertise no background checks, and people under 18 (very easy to get around) can't view posts advertising gun sales.

*yawn* barely newsworthy

jimmyraythomason
March 5, 2014, 02:49 PM
All the Facebook gun groups I'm involved in have an age minimum of 18 (our state minimum age for anything gun related). These groups are all self policing and anything suspected of being illegal swiftly gets brought to a moderator's attention and it is dealt with post haste. The ONLY thing that seems to get by and that is simply because the vast majority doesn't know the law is possibly 18 US sec.922(r) violations. I see otherwise original SKSs with 30 round duckbills prominently displayed for sale or trade.

Queen_of_Thunder
March 5, 2014, 03:00 PM
All the Facebook gun groups I'm involved in have an age minimum of 18 (our state minimum age for anything gun related). These groups are all self policing and anything suspected of being illegal swiftly gets brought to a moderator's attention and it is dealt with post haste. The ONLY thing that seems to get by and that is simply because the vast majority doesn't know the law is possibly 18 US sec.922(r) violations. I see otherwise original SKSs with 30 round duckbills prominently displayed for sale or trade.
So restriction of speech is ok?

jimmyraythomason
March 5, 2014, 03:03 PM
So restriction of speech is ok?
What are you talking about Queen of Thunder?

Sam Cade
March 5, 2014, 03:38 PM
Sam, under 18 are not allowed to read for sale ads any more?

Just like Armslist.
http://www.armslist.com/

Not having a policy in place makes Facebook more open to the possibility of litigation I would think.

GJSchulze
March 5, 2014, 03:41 PM
If you read FB's actual statement and compare it to what Mothers and Mayors are claiming, you'll see that FB is giving them lip service. The FB statement never specifically mentions firearms, but is a general statement about illegal activity.

Essentially, nothing has changed; they promised to try a little harder to police it and to send an email to the offending party if someone reports it.

Sam Cade
March 5, 2014, 03:43 PM
So restriction of speech is ok?

Yes.

Facebook is a private entity and they are free to place whatever restrictions they want on the voluntary users of their services.


We restrict speech here at THR, far more strictly than Facebook does.

MErl
March 5, 2014, 03:59 PM
Anyone of any age can browse armslist without agreeing to the TOS (never click I agree in #12). FB has the ability to enforce that rule, to be seen if they well.

There is no harm in just looking, don't see why it should be blocked.

SilentStalker
March 5, 2014, 06:16 PM
Wow... You do realize facebook and instagram are private companies, not gov't agencies? Nothing they choose to do or not do will ever lead to a "police state."

Originally posted by Pizzapinochle

Of course I realize they are a private company. My statement was kind of a joke. However, it seems we have more and more of this backdoor action everyday which makes it seem like we live as such at times. See this is where law gets kind of grey to me. This kind of violates the right to free speech IMO. You could argue that yes, it is a private company, but it is also on the internet which is considered public domain. I guess they can get around that though by saying you can just not use their service. Whatever, I don't care.

Pointshoot
March 5, 2014, 11:24 PM
Oh FB . . . . the company whose founder said that those who trusted him with their private information were 'dumb <deleted>'. They datamine everything about you including your network of personal relationships.

Naw . . . . I don't use FB. And maybe Zuckerberg was right about what he said regarding those who continue to do so.

Plan2Live
March 6, 2014, 06:22 AM
I guess I'm the last person in the world who has taken this stance but I don't have a Facebook account, I never have and I never will. The negative aspects (personally and societally) of FB far outweigh anything positive it offers humanity.

You can go to your children to ask persmission to post things if you like, I won't play that game.

NavyLCDR
March 6, 2014, 07:17 AM
I almost wish the anti-gun groups had gotten their way and gotten themselves banned from Facebook for being organizations almost 100% exclusive to discussion regarding firearms...

you know, like the law enforcement gun buybacks that are now banned in Colorado under the new gun control laws.

Queen_of_Thunder
March 6, 2014, 12:25 PM
Yes.

Facebook is a private entity and they are free to place whatever restrictions they want on the voluntary users of their services.


We restrict speech here at THR, far more strictly than Facebook does.
And here is where we disagree. Facebook is a publicly traded company. It's business is transacted on government owned property aka public easements (local,state and federal). These easements are government property and therefore Facebook has no right to censor.

Sam Cade
March 6, 2014, 01:31 PM
These easements are government property and therefore Facebook has no right to censor.

That has got to be the strangest, least logical legal arguments I've ever heard. :eek:

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 6, 2014, 01:46 PM
And here is where we disagree. Facebook is a publicly traded company. It's business is transacted on government owned property aka public easements (local,state and federal). These easements are government property and therefore Facebook has no right to censor.

This may be your opinion, but it has no basis in reality. At all. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of just about every concept upon which you claim to base your opinion.

DeadMoneyDrew
March 6, 2014, 08:29 PM
Folks, there is really not much to see here.

Anti-gunners put pressure on Facebook. Facebook essentially responded with "we are not going to restrict users from expressing themselves, but we will make efforts to improve our policing of activity to help ensure that we are not facilitating anything illegal." Bravo on them.

There is a WaPo article with some Brady lackey lamenting that FB "fell short" in its response.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/06/brady-campaign-facebook-fell-short-of-competitors-on-gun-control/

TennJed
March 7, 2014, 05:17 PM
My facebook is very progun. I get more gun news, information, and pictures from facebook than anywhere else. It is silly to think they are anti-gun. They are not progun, but they ain't anti-gun

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