Just joined IDPA... where do I buy my tutu?


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1KPerDay
March 7, 2014, 11:45 AM
:D

BTW:

has anyone taken advantage of this deal? When can I expect an email/coupon? There was no mention of it after I joined.

http://www.idpa.com/content/images/content/homepagebanner.final.png

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mgmorden
March 11, 2014, 09:36 AM
I got one when I renewed with USPSA last year. Don't know if they'll handle it the same way but mine just came as a card with a code when my new membership card came in.

Used mine to setup my single-stack rig. I think by the time everything was applied I got 6 good mag pouches, 1 not-so-good freebie mag pouch, a holster, ball cap, and a few other goodies for like $75.

utbrowningman
March 11, 2014, 10:00 AM
Careful. I made a comment in a post about wearing a dress and it was deleted as it was "Sexist" so I suspect the same treatment for you. :)

1KPerDay
March 11, 2014, 12:04 PM
Thanks mgmorden... been thinking about springing for a race holster. Which of course has nothing to do with IDPA.

utbrowningman, the tutu thing was not intended as a sexist remark... merely as a jibe against the love-it-or-hate-it IDPA rules/equipment/stuff. I tried to read the rule book on whether I could shoot the classifier and have it count for multiple divisions but I fell asleep. :D

I need to get a cover garment also...

“Many of our clients find pants confining, so we offer a range of alternatives for the ample gentleman: ponchos, muumuus, capes, jumpsuits, unisheets, muslin body rolls, academic and judicial robes.” – Vast Waistband Salesman

“I don’t want to look like a weirdo. I’ll just go with a muumuu.” – Homer Simpson

Jim Watson
March 11, 2014, 01:23 PM
IDPA does not have a "qualifier." It has a Classifier. You know; magazine, not clip.

You may now under the new rules apply the same score to more than one division if you
1. Announce it in advance and have it sent in that way.
2. Shoot a gun allowed in all divisions. I.E., you can count a SSP in ESP (or CDP if .45) but not the other way around.

1KPerDay
March 11, 2014, 01:49 PM
Thank you, I will fix my mistake.

1KPerDay
March 11, 2014, 01:52 PM
Another question: what would be the advantage/point of applying one classifier score to all divisions? For example, if I shoot Novice in SSP, but then in another match I want to shoot ESP, would I be considered "unclassified", unless I shoot another classifier with ESP? (Unless I request to have my SSP classification applied to all divisions)

Or am I missing another advantage here? What's 5-gun award?

Jim Watson
March 11, 2014, 02:20 PM
Many people don't like to shoot the Classifier, it is "dull." So they think it an advantage to shoot the Classifier once and have it cover two or more divisions. (You could shoot a G41 and count the score in SSP, ESP, and CDP. You can apply your ESR score to SSR but not vice versa.)

The 5 gun award is simply classifying the same in all divisions and getting a certificate to recognize it. Not much call for anything but a 5 Gun Master. Who cares if you are a Sharpshooter across the board?

1KPerDay
March 11, 2014, 03:50 PM
Thanks. Maybe I'll try the G41.

I assume that to be "classified" you have to complete all 3 stages of the classifier, right?

I for one would be happy if I got Sharpshooter. I suck at shooting paper so I'm afraid they'll just throw me out after they count the hits. LOL :)

Jim Watson
March 12, 2014, 03:46 PM
Yes, you have to shoot the entire Classifier to get a Classification.

The hard parts are the head boxes in Stage 1 and the 20 yard shooting in Stage 3.

I sometimes get disgusted with my loss in accuracy from when I used to shoot PPC.

1KPerDay
March 12, 2014, 03:47 PM
Thanks. Hopefully I don't screw it up too bad.

1KPerDay
March 19, 2014, 12:54 PM
How long does it take for them to send membership card/classification card/whatever? I have a match Saturday. I guess I just take my receipt email as proof of membership?

Jim Watson
March 20, 2014, 09:44 AM
That will do. Most places are very casual about such stuff for club level matches. Ask them to sit on your classification until you know you are entered and listed.

1KPerDay
March 20, 2014, 08:50 PM
Well I have a member number and my website login works. so I assume I'm good.

gunsablazin
March 21, 2014, 11:18 AM
Better get a tutu that goes with your eye color! Camo clothing is not against the IDPA rules, but still discouraged. :)

1KPerDay
March 21, 2014, 12:02 PM
:D lol

Shooting the classifier tomorrow. Going to use Glock 41 so I can hopefully apply my score to SSP, ESP, and CDP. Hope I don't screw up too much. I went skiing with my wife all day and my thighs are shredded so hopefully I can kneel/move tomorrow.

tarakian
March 21, 2014, 06:06 PM
I don't know if you can classify for all three at the same time as the division capacity for SSP and ESP is 10, while CDP is 8. If you download to 8 to meet the criteria for CDP, then you would not have the mags loaded to division capacity for SSP and ESP, thereby violating the rules of those divisions. To do all three at once you would need a double action .45 with a max mag capacity of 8 rounds, which would trump the higher capacity requirements of ESP/SSP.

1KPerDay
March 21, 2014, 06:52 PM
The classifier doesn't require you to have more than 6 rounds in a mag at one time.

Also:
9.3. One Classifier Score Applied To Multiple Divisions
9.3.1. The score attained by shooting the Classifier can be applied to other divisions where the equipment
and ammunition used while shooting the Classifier meets the requirements of those other divisions. The
shooter must notify the MD before the Classifier begins of the intent to apply a single score to multiple
divisions and the MD must verify that the equipment and ammunition meet the requirements for multiple
divisions.
9.3.2. Examples: SSP score applied to ESP, CDP score applied to SSP and ESP, ESR score applied to SSR

9.7.4. During the Classifier only, shooters may load to division capacity, or fully load their normal IDPA
compliant magazines, or load to any count sufficient to complete a string as required.

tarakian
March 24, 2014, 09:50 AM
Learn something new everyday. Thanks 1K.

1KPerDay
March 24, 2014, 12:34 PM
No prob... I'm learning that the IDPA rule book is about as nebulous as the U.S. Tax Code (I was going to say Obamacare but I'm sure that would have gotten me banned or something). :D

Couple things I'm still not clear about:

Can't reload while moving, right?
Can't drop an EMPTY mag if there's one in the chamber? That makes no sense to me.

Jim Watson
March 24, 2014, 10:42 PM
I will make sense out of it to you.
If you do not follow the rules, you will be penalized.

We can debate the logic and sense of whatever tactical expert allegedly informed the new rules, but the rules are in place and if you want to play the sport, you must abide by them.

jmorris
March 25, 2014, 12:49 AM
I haven't shot a classifier in years but I guess with the new rules it would have made it a lot less trouble to make 5 gun master. Funny that they kept SSR master but I had to shoot again to make it with the same gun to get MA in ESR when they created that division.

1KPerDay
March 25, 2014, 01:16 PM
I will make sense out of it to you.
If you do not follow the rules, you will be penalized.
Thanks. :rolleyes:

jmorris
March 26, 2014, 09:25 AM
Making sense of IDPA rules is where you are having the problem. Some of them are just stupid, if you were to do them in the real world.

For example if you pull a magazine and drop it outside of cover during a reload, in order not to receive a PE you must leave cover to pick up the dropped mag then go back behind cover and finish the reload. If you just grab the next mag off of your belt +3 seconds to your time.

You can't reload while moving behind cover anymore but you can run the gun dry in the open now and reload on the way to the next shooting position.

1KPerDay
March 26, 2014, 12:15 PM
You can't reload while moving behind cover anymore but you can run the gun dry in the open now and reload on the way to the next shooting position.
You can? can you direct me to that section of the rulebook? The ROs at the match were adamant that you could not reload while moving EVER.

Thanks. :cool:

1KPerDay
March 26, 2014, 12:18 PM
http://pistol-training.com/archives/8271

Interesting read...

1KPerDay
March 26, 2014, 03:54 PM
Results:
I placed 9th of 91 overall and 6th of 57 in SSP. I'm happy with that, particularly for my first official IDPA match.

jmorris
March 26, 2014, 04:22 PM
You can? can you direct me to that section of the rulebook? The ROs at the match were adamant that you could not reload while moving EVER.


Wow, 91 people at a match and none of them know the written rules! Guess the new SO test didn't get everyone to read the new rules.

3.8 is the section you want to look at, that allows reloading on the move if you run dry in the open.

1KPerDay
March 26, 2014, 04:44 PM
thanks, I'll have a look. I may have misunderstood what they were saying.

1KPerDay
March 26, 2014, 04:53 PM
For any interested:

3.8. All reloads must be performed behind cover; however, in a Scenario CoF, if a shooter runs the firearm
empty while engaging targets on the move, as required or allowed by the CoF description, the shooter may
initiate an Emergency Reload while advancing to the next shooting position specified in the CoF. The
shooter may not engage any more targets until after reaching the next shooting position.
3.8.1 If the shooter did not completely engage all of the "on the move" targets before running the firearm
empty, no Procedural Error penalty shall be assessed for a failure to engage targets per the Cof
description.
3.8.2 If the shooter reloads and continues to engage targets while moving to the next shooting position, a
Procedural Error penalty will be assessed for each shot fired.
3.8.3 If the shooter can safely complete the engagement of any remaining "on the move" targets from the
next shooting position, the shooter may do so without incurring additional target scoring or procedural
penalties. If the shooter cannot safely complete engagement of the remaining targets from the next
shooting position, the shooter shall be assessed points down and FTN penalties, as applicable, for any
unengaged "on the move" targets.
3.8.4 If no "next shooting position" is specified in the CoF, e.g., the "on the move" targets are the final
targets to be engaged in the CoF, no reload is allowed and the shooter shall be assessed points down and
FTN penalties, as applicable, for any unengaged "on the move" targets.
3.8.5 In a Standards CoF, reloading "on the move" while engaging targets may be permitted without penalty,
provided the CoF description either requires or permits it.


I suppose the intent of this rule is that if you run dry you should get to cover as quickly as possible, not stand there and reload.

Doesn't 3.8.5 contradict 3.8.2? Can someone clarify?

Detritus
March 27, 2014, 02:25 AM
Doesn't 3.8.5 contradict 3.8.2? Can someone clarify?

My reading of 3.8.5 would be that the phrase:

provided the CoF description either requires or permits it.

Is what makes it non contradictory.

So my understanding of 3.8.5 would be that one can reload "on the move" if and ONLY if the written Course of Fire expressly says it is permitted or required

Edited to Add
And I just can't move on without adding this..

Making sense of IDPA rules is where you are having the problem. Some of them are just stupid, if you were to do them in the real world

I whole heartedly agree with this, it sums up SO much. and it is one of the reasons I've been reluctant to reapproach IDPA.

Well maybe I should say that every time I have discussed with another shooter, my thoughts of giving IDPA another go. the subject of why I tried it and walked away comes up. And every single time, in the spirit of giving the person all the facts, I make a variation of the above comment. and invariably the current IDPA shooter I'm talking to reacts as if I'm an idiot, or in two cases as if I'd just committed some form of sacrilege.

I know darn well that not all and probably the majority of IDPA guys know and understand "it's just a game" and don't take things that seriously, but it's disconcerting how many times I've personally found that attitude.

fiftybmg
March 27, 2014, 04:36 AM
IDPA is a great sport, and a lot of fun.

Base the decision to join IDPA on wether or not you can identify with the Fundamental Principles, section 1.1 of the Rule Book :

1.1.1. Promote safe and proficient use of firearms and equipment suitable for concealed carry self-defense.
1.1.2. Offer a practical shooting sport encouraging competitors to develop skills and fellowship with like-minded shooters.
1.1.3. Provide a level playing field for all competitors that solely tests the skill and ability of each individual, not their equipment.
1.1.4. Provide separate divisions for equipment and classifications for shooters, such that firearms with similar characteristics are grouped together and people with similar skills compete against each other.
1.1.5. Provide shooters with practical and realistic courses of fire, and test skills that could be required to survive life-threatening encounters.
1.1.6. Strongly encourage all IDPA members to support our sponsors when making purchases of equipment and accessories. Industry sponsors have been instrumental in IDPA’s success at all levels including Club, State, Regional, National, and International levels.
1.1.7. Develop and maintain an infrastructure that will allow IDPA to be responsive to our shooters. While IDPA can never be all things to all people, respectful constructive suggestions from our members, which follow IDPA Fundamental Principles, will always be welcome.

The rules in the rulebook are put in place to defend the fundamental principles. Every course of fire is created with certain rules in addition to the rules in the rule-book. The course of fire rules may not violate any rule in the rulebook, or any fundamental principle.

If you break a rule of the course of fire, it's a procedural error, same way if you break a rule in the rule-book.

Think of the rule-book as a fixed set of rules, the course of fire rules as additional variable rules, and the sum of which are the stage rules.

It is disappointing to get hit with PEs. But keep in mind the SO is just like you, a fellow shooter that has accepted additional responsibilities in the match, and they are not getting paid to give you PEs, they do it from the goodness of their heart. [ no sarcasm intended ]

As for IDPA being compared to anything real-world : don't. It is not.

IDPA is not any form of combat training. It's a sport. In that sport you get to practice safe gun handling, and you learn to shoot straight.

Taking it seriously means different things. Anyone who shoots IDPA is already taking it very seriously, because they are committing money and time, and that is serious.

IDPA is also open to member feedback. If you can make a valid argument that a rule is contradictory or violates the principles of IDPA [ listed above] , and has to be changed, contact the IDPA HQ and let them know, and they will change it.

jmorris
March 27, 2014, 08:48 AM
I suppose the intent of this rule is that if you run dry you should get to cover as quickly as possible, not stand there and reload.

Doesn't 3.8.5 contradict 3.8.2? Can someone clarify?


The difference is between the two different types of COF. "standards" many times do not have cover available. Like the first few strings of the classifier.

If you really become a rule book lawyer you will find a section that states "all shots to be fired from cover if available." and another one along the lines of "all targets must be engauged before leaving cover." and thoes pretty much eliminate any shooting on the move, unless you start in the open. Then you MUST engage the targets while moving to cover. To add more confusion to the subject, I was told from the SOI that wrote that section of the rule book that that was not his intent and that it needed to be rewritten.

I have played IDPA for over a decade and gone to matches all over the place but I am one of the guys they ran off with the new rules. However they also state in the rule book that they cater to new and average shooters so they won't miss an old 5 gun master anyway.

1KPerDay
March 27, 2014, 03:23 PM
Well if they're after average shooters I'll fit right in. I did wait a few years before joining. I had a bad experience or two my first couple times out shooting IDPA... seems the SOs were there expressly to enforce rules and not allow anyone to have a good time shooting.

I have since learned that the SO can have a large impact on whether the shooters in his squad have fun or not, even being equally safe as a poor SO. But IDPA by its nature does seem to attract the "rule nazis" as it were. Which is understandable since the rules are what differentiate it from other shooting disciplines.

I think I classified SS BTW (if I did the math right). Which I'm good with. I'll have to cut 20 seconds off my time to move up a level and I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Jim Watson
March 27, 2014, 04:13 PM
If you keep finishing in the top 10% of Division, you will be at the top of SS and will soon get bumped... if you go to sanctioned matches.

fiftybmg
March 27, 2014, 04:22 PM
Well if they're after average shooters I'll fit right in. I did wait a few years before joining. I had a bad experience or two my first couple times out shooting IDPA... seems the SOs were there expressly to enforce rules and not allow anyone to have a good time shooting.

I have since learned that the SO can have a large impact on whether the shooters in his squad have fun or not, even being equally safe as a poor SO. But IDPA by its nature does seem to attract the "rule nazis" as it were. Which is understandable since the rules are what differentiate it from other shooting disciplines.

I think I classified SS BTW (if I did the math right). Which I'm good with. I'll have to cut 20 seconds off my time to move up a level and I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
There are always a few 'rule nazis', but don't let that influence your experience of the sport.

In my experience, they have been new members, who themselves have come up short against some or other rules [ usually after suffering a DQ at a sanctioned match ] and so they have the sub-concious need to impress on others how harsh IDPA can be.

Ignore them. After a few years they have the edges forcibly beaten off them and they fit in with the spirit of the sport.

IDPA shooters are generally friendly and accomodating, especially towards new shooters. If you're not sure of anything, ask, you cannot ask a dumb question, it's only dumb not to ask. The older shooters [ generally with white in hair or beard ] are very happy to share what they know.

1KPerDay
March 28, 2014, 01:45 PM
That has been my experience as well, not merely in IDPA but in all shooting sports. The vast majority of people are truly a pleasure to be around, funny, accommodating, honorable, and just good people in general. You get a few jerks in any environment, but the overall experience is nearly always very pleasant.

1KPerDay
April 4, 2014, 03:07 PM
FYI

Subject: How long does it typically take to receive membership card/packet?


Hi,

I registered 3/7

IDPA ID: Axxxxxx
and haven't received anything... is that typical? Looking forward to the 50% off Safariland coupon. I assume I'll be able to use it even if it didn't arrive during March?



Thanks,

Sir,



There has been a delay in shipping out new member packets as we wait for product to come in. We hope to have the items in soon, and we will send out the packets as soon as possible.



Sincerely,

xxxxx

IDPA Staff

1KPerDay
April 22, 2014, 11:39 AM
Got my packet yesterday. What Safariland holster should I buy? Something for a race gun? Hmmmm...

tarosean
April 24, 2014, 11:58 AM
Something for a race gun? Hmmmm...


Then you will have to ditch IDPA just after you started. :neener:

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