Seeking Perspective from Beretta and Sig Saur Owners


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Vodoun da Vinci
March 8, 2014, 10:53 AM
Long story short, I have decided and focused on a particular type of pistol platform for Concealed Carry. I carry Appendix and have settled on pistols with hammers, decockers, SA/DA capability as this has been what works for me and has become by "Soul Mate" platform. I have been training with my Beretta Px4 subcompact as it carries well Appendix, has high cap, has redundant safety features that make me comfortable, and is now extremely accurate and intuitive.

My second favorite gun is now my Glock 26 which I have ceased training with and it sits in the safe with about 2000 rounds thru it. When I contemplate training with it, I pass...there is no need as it doesn't do anything for me that my Storm doesn't do as well and does it safer.

I'm branching out and looking for additional pistols in the hammer fired/decocker/SA/DA config and there are precious few to contemplate which brings me to the Sig Sauer pistols. I'm also settled on 9mm and would like perspective from Sig and Beretta owners comparing the two platforms preferably to each other, from folks who own and are proficient with both.

I think the G26 is gonna vacate the safe for a Sig Sauer 9mm but have not shot many and will have to buy a pistol to evaluate it as a backup/co carry in rotation with my Px4 SC.

I'm looking for pros and cons and suggestions about which Model Sigs might fit the requirement. And super thanks in advance!

VooDoo

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bds
March 8, 2014, 11:43 AM
IMO, for any pistol, especially for a carry/defensive pistol, I think accuracy trumps a lot of things. Doesn't matter how nice looking your pistol is if you can't hit your target(s) that are immediate threat to your life/lives of your family.

You should carry the pistol that you can shoot accurately and fast, consistently. I loved my Sig 226 until running the same match stage produced lower stage times with a Glock 17 that I never shot before, with comparable level of accuracy. I went, "How could that be?" as I was very familiar and competent with the Sig. Even though I ran the match stage several times with both Sig and Glock, results were same - Glock produced faster stage times than Sig and times were getting faster each time I ran the stage with the Glock.

I would take all the pistols you have that can be carried and run some quick draw/fast shooting drills at practical distance (5-7 yards) and see which produces the best accuracy fastest consistently.

I would let holes on target be the judge. If accuracy/times are comparable, I would carry the pistol I felt more comfortable.

Mind you, I am still a Sig fan as I love my railed Sig 1911 that I use as my range accuracy testing platform, but for SD/HD duty that must perform with absolute reliability with highest level of accuracy, G23/G27 fill that role for me.

Vodoun da Vinci
March 8, 2014, 11:57 AM
Thanks bds. I bought the G26 because of the accuracy "right out of the box"...it shocked me. As I have trained and compared and selected my choices the Px4 sc has risen to the top choice because it is now more accurate in my hands as the G26 and just as fast out of the holster to shots fired. My Beretta has risen to surpass the G26 in my hands and is now my favorite because of that and the fact that it has redundant safety features that appeal to me.

My evaluation for CC pistol involves moving at a buzzer, drawing/shooting while moving. I really like the Glock - it has simply been beaten out by speed and accuracy by the Px4 SC in my shooting.

I'd like to add another hammer fired/DA/SA/pistol into rotation. Nothing against the Glocks and if they had such capability/features I'd not be looking at Sigs.

VooDoo

JTQ
March 8, 2014, 12:02 PM
Based on your preference for little guns, I'd think the P239 would be a good choice.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p239.aspx

bds
March 8, 2014, 12:09 PM
That's good VooDoo.

Vodoun da Vinci
March 8, 2014, 12:16 PM
So far, the P224 and P239 are at the top of the list and next on the try outs. I handled a 224 when I shopped and compared and like the 224 but the Px4 SC won the first round.

So, I'm revisiting this shopping for options now that I have settled on platforms with more safety features.

Excellent selection/choice JTQ, have you shot/do you own a 239? The only Sigs I really have trigger time on are the P238 and P938.

VooDoo

REJones
March 8, 2014, 12:25 PM
I have a SIG P239 and P226, both in 9mm. The P239 is not particularly small or light compared to more modern designs but it gives up absolutely nothing in terms of accuracy, recoil or reliability on its big brother. If you can carry a PX4 Storm Subcompact then I think you can probably handle the P239 just as well but you will lose out on capacity. It should be thinner, though.

I haven't shot the P238 or P938 but I suspect that they are nothing like the "traditional" SIGs in trigger or handling.

GZOh
March 8, 2014, 12:49 PM
Was able to pickup a SIG-225 (P6) awhile back...
and for me, it's an ideal CCW pistol and an excellent, dead-accurate pistola (tho it holds 8-rnds)!
That, and my CZ P-01 are for me, ideal carries.
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq112/geezeepix/ccw004.jpg (http://s439.photobucket.com/user/geezeepix/media/ccw004.jpg.html)

shootr
March 8, 2014, 11:52 PM
I've got a 225 Sig and Beretta 92. I've always been a Sig fan but truth be told, the Beretta works well for me. Smooth shooting and more accurate for me. I've carried it IWB appendix and IMO, not really that bad. Both great guns.

Jenrick
March 9, 2014, 12:33 AM
I'm a fan of the 229 (I run one in .357 sig if given the option as my EDC), which is a bit thicker and longer the 239. You might also look into the P6, they are about as thin as a sig gets, and just as dead nuts accurate as any other sig pistol.

You might also check out the P250 in 9mm, in the sub compact frame. It's a DAO trigger with no decock however. In 9mm it runs great, shoots great, and the sub compact conceals well.

-Jenrick

WestKentucky
March 9, 2014, 01:12 AM
I have had several b92/m9 pistols and one stands above all others...taurus pt99. It's big for appendix carry but everything good about the beretta stays put but you get a different safety setup which is more natural and easier to use. Shooting one after another comparing b92 pt92 pt99 I came to a few conclusions...they all feel the same, "point" the same, work the same...but the Taurus is $200 cheaper. The Taurus also has the aforementioned different safety which is arguably better than berettas current design. So that knocked out the b92. Now I had a pt92 and pt99 to compare. Sights are similarly useful but are the only difference worth mentioning. Adjustable sights put bullets on paper better at all ranges because with the two fixed sight guns I was adjusting POA to move POI which is at best a guestimation on where that bullet will hit. Both Taurus and beretta have made compact versions of these guns which are surprisingly affordable on the used market. Both are very durable.

Moving over to sig. Be sure to shoot a sig before you buy. I can't explain it but it feels odd. Model to model something isn't right for me...definately not saying it's a gun issue...but it doesn't fit my hand. That may be the wierd feeling in the action as well. The p250 and 2022(?) I have put rounds through were less than impressive on both ergo and accuracy however the mosquito I have experience with is phenomenal for both.

Curiosity does make me question your described rig. I agree with SA/da but why appendix and why decocker so high on priority list? I like hammer fired too but not for carry as it's another point for clothing to cause gun failure.

Another direction you could potentially go is with walther guns from before the s&w/colt/walther/whodathunkit days. There were 9mm versions though I can't name them offhand that I believe would fit your description of ideal carry gun very well.

Vodoun da Vinci
March 9, 2014, 10:13 AM
Curiosity does make me question your described rig. I agree with SA/da but why appendix and why decocker so high on priority list? I like hammer fired too but not for carry as it's another point for clothing to cause gun failure.



I drive a lot, move a lot, sit a lot and I'm generally go from sitting/driving for hours to hyper active daily...also I'm in Illinois and printing is simply not an option. I hide short barreled pistols very well in Appendix on my body shape and getting at it even if thrown to the ground, moving, running, etc is the best for me from Appendix. From the buzzer I'm moving, getting my shirt up, and putting first shot on target while moving in .8 seconds consistently and I'm a big fan of Appendix carry. I can draw it while being pinned to the ground and I can draw from it from behind a notebook, lunchbox, or file folder and not be seen.....It works well for me.

As far as decockers go I *really* get peace of mind from multiple and redundant safeties...the idea of loading a round with decocker down and ending up with a gun that is basically inert appeals to me greatly. When carried this way, the Beretta has the hammer down on a down turned firing pin, the trigger is deactivated, and the firing pin block is engaged. The gun is a brick at this point....if I fall down a flight of stairs or if I'm in a car accident or wrestling the gun is inert as it can get. Move/draw/disengage the decocker during presentation and first round DA the gun is just as fast to first round on target as anything else I have trained with *and* the safest of any when carried. Which will hopefully be 99.9999999% of the time when I'm not training with it.

Safety...redundant safeties are a very big deal with me as are short pistols due to the Appendix carry desire. I owned a Beretta 92S that I recently sold to purchase different guns for carry. Loved that platform but it is just too big to be comfortable for carry with my dress and activity levels.

I really had a tussle the first round of evaluations between the Sig 224 and the Px4 SC and the Px4 compact...the Storm SC won and I love it. Now I'm looking for number two and the Sigs were *that* close in feel to being just as good as the Px4's. I'm really thinking I'm gonna buy one with funds recovered from the sale of my G26 Gen4 and some extra cash to see if I can make that work for me - if not? Number two might well be a Px4 Compact in 9mm.

VooDoo

JRWhit
March 9, 2014, 10:47 AM
I would recommend trying the M11-A1/228. A bit long if you compare it to the Px4 SC, but if your considering the Px4 C it is within 2 tenths of an inch in length. I would personally think it's too big for appendix, but I don't appendix carry and am not sure what is comfortable to you.
If you have not had a chance to try the short reach trigger coupled with the short reset trigger, I would highly recommend trying one out. The SRT turbo charged follow up shots for me and the short reach puts the ergonomics up a few levels from the standard. These are standard on the M11-A1, as well as 3 magazines and night sights.

Tomac
March 9, 2014, 11:14 AM
While I consider the SIG SP2022 very underrated and a great value (my previous AIWB EDC), I shoot the PX4 Compact much better which is the only reason it's now my AIWB EDC.
If looking at SIGs for the first time, handle an SP2022 if you can, it might surprise you.
Tomac

SP2022 & PX4 Compact:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/P1110005.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Tomac/media/P1110005.jpg.html)

HexHead
March 9, 2014, 11:58 AM
Forget the Sig, and trade both the Beretta and the Glock for an HK P2000sk. It meets all your requirements, is lighter than a Sig and feels much better in the hand than your PX4.

Sailct41
March 9, 2014, 12:10 PM
This little Sig shoots well, not too much recoil. I have large hands and I still get a good grip on the pistol and it disappears in the pocket. Mine has a laser and night sights. You should at least shoot a couple of rounds through one before you choose.

Vodoun da Vinci
March 9, 2014, 12:36 PM
Forget the Sig, and trade both the Beretta and the Glock for an HK P2000sk. It meets all your requirements, is lighter than a Sig and feels much better in the hand than your PX4.

I shot one of those last Summer in the first series of evaluations. It was reliable and well made but does not point naturally for me at all....sighted fire was very accurate. I train very little bulls eye shooting and most of my training is "move and shoot from the point" without acquiring a sight picture and the HK guns, for me at that level of training, all were less intuitive than other guns. I did not find it to feel better in the hand than a Px4 but that's a very subjective thing dependent on so many factors that vary between individual shooters.

If the Sigs don't work for me I'd possibly look at the H&K offerings as a second glance but my evaluation was pretty intense the first round and I rejected them. I'm pretty sure I'll have to buy the Sig Sauer I want to evaluate as there are none for rent and I don't know anyone who owns one to borrow...and I'm OK with dropping an additional $600+ on top of what I recover from my G26 sale to finance that test.

Right now the P224 and P239 lead the pack as I have at least been able to handle those and operate all the goodies...they feel good and come up on target from the point perfectly for me in dry fire.

The proof of it will have to be in the shooting I guess. And if it doesn't work out they hold resale pretty well in this area so I won't lose my shirt if I resell.

VooDoo

Chocolate Bayou
March 9, 2014, 02:57 PM
I don't know your budget and it isn't mentioned as one of your finalist, but try the Colt Defender if you've never fired one before.

tiamat
March 9, 2014, 05:53 PM
If manual safeties are such a big deal for you, I'm surprised to hear that any non-1911 Sig has made it to your list. They have decockers, yes, but no manual safeties to speak of other than a long/heavy DA trigger.

I like my P239, but as mentioned, it's heavy for what it is and these days loses out in capacity to almost every other platform. There are 10 round extended magazines, but to me that seems out of place on a CC weapon (unless we're talking a 2nd magazine/reload).

edit: I re-read your posts, and discovered I mis-interpreted your desire for redundant safeties as 'manual' safeties. So I guess Sig's firing pin block and long DA trigger pull could be considered as redundant safeties.

snooperman
March 9, 2014, 07:32 PM
I have the SIG P225 and it is great single stack gun. You can still find them on gunbroker in fine condition. I like it much better than the P239. If you want a double stack , I also have the P228 which is very accurate that will serve you well. Either way you go you will get a very good gun from SIG.

Onmilo
March 11, 2014, 01:07 PM
Since you want to ditch your G26 for a Hammered double action and since I own guns by Beretta, Sig, and Glock, I'm going to voice my opinion based on the options you selected.
Get a Sig P228/229
http://www.fototime.com/24262F97A289248/standard.jpg
If I didn't like the G26 so much as a CCW weapon, the P228 would be my next choice.

TfflHndn
March 12, 2014, 10:06 PM
I would also recommend the SIG 229. If you buy the .40 frame, you can get barrels for 357 SIG and 9mm and interchange them. Versatile, very reliable and feel good in the hand.

oldguy58
March 13, 2014, 01:45 AM
Have to agree with GZOh. I've used the CZ Po1 ,as well as the Sig P225 (still using the 225) , both were/are great carry guns. One other pistol I really liked and carried for a few years was the GLOCK G36. If I had the funds I'd buy another G36. All choices you're considering seem to be very good choices---Good Luck

Vodoun da Vinci
March 13, 2014, 08:12 AM
I managed to handle and shoot a P226, P224, and a P239 over the last few days. I think Sigs are excellent pistols and built like tanks. But they aren't for me. I could train my way into really liking them but there is nothing about them that makes me "gotta have one" especially since the price tag is half again more than another pistol.

I appreciate all the input in this thread but I think I'm gonna train like mad with my G26 and get comfortable with carrying it and if that does not happen I'm buying another Px4 in the compact size for rotation.

The Sigs just don't give me goose bumps while shooting like the Storm or my Glock do.

VooDoo

Lucky Derby
March 13, 2014, 08:49 AM
I was at an impressionable young age when the US Military adopted the M9 & the movie heros were almost all armed with Beretta 92s. So I have owned a few over the years.
I have also owned a fair number of Sigs. P220s, P226s, a P229 & a P225.
The Berettas (all a varient of the 92/M9) never felt right to me. (Well I did have a Tomcat that I liked, but thats a whole different animal) They were all good guns, but they just didn't fit me. I also never could get used to the safety. It seems to operate backwards. (yes I'm a 1911/BHP fan)
The Sigs are definately my preference in the DA auto. I have two left at this time. a P220 & a P225. No Berettas remain, and I doubt any will be purchased in the future. I would choose the Sig over the Beretta every time. But your choice may be different. Get what works for you.

oldguy58
March 13, 2014, 09:15 PM
Hope the G26 works out for you-- I've not shot that model but the others I've owned or tried have been reliable and not hard to carry concealed.

zoom6zoom
March 13, 2014, 11:09 PM
I would also recommend the SIG 229. If you buy the .40 frame, you can get barrels for 357 SIG and 9mm and interchange them. Versatile, very reliable and feel good in the hand.
I have all of that on mine, plus the .22 conversion. Great package!

JDR
March 15, 2014, 06:09 PM
I would suggest you consider the CZ 2075 RAMI with the decocker, but in the end you have it go with the one that works best for you.

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