.22lr Accuracy at 100 Yards


April 2, 2004, 06:53 PM
What kind of accuracy can one expect from a very good .22lr rifle at 100 yards?

I know they'll shoot 1 MOA at 50, but does it fall apart after that?

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April 2, 2004, 07:15 PM
Seen 1 MOA from three CZ 22s with match subsonic ammo. I get pretty close to 1MOA with my stock Remington 597 using Wolf extra match. Seems more about the ammo than the rifle, but I don't fool around with rimfire stuff too much.

April 2, 2004, 07:22 PM
Depends on so much! I used to shoot outdoor comps with an old BSA MkII ... all tricked out ...... it was at 25 and 50 but .. did explore the 100 yd deal just for fun.

IF wind minimal then once dialed in it would hold very tight .. definitely MOA.

Other than a specialized gun tho, rather doubt it. I have a Mauser Obendorfe (1920's, heavy rifle) ..... now that will produce probably 1 1/2 to 2 MAO at 100 ... repeatedly .. but again ... the wind will be what opens the group - or not. Also yeah, halfways decent ammo, that suits the rifle .... will be essential.

April 2, 2004, 07:39 PM
up until recently the bragging rights 100yd groups fired from any position anygun/ammo was 1/2MOA.....then someone from rimfirecentral palmed me some of the Wolf Match Target.....five shots into .317 duly witnessed by the range officers...
The gun is a customized Ruger 10-22 Target, 16in. barrel, custom chamber etc, etc.

April 2, 2004, 07:52 PM
I shoot a ruger 77/22 varmint out to 200 yards and can hit a clay pigeon every time. I am not sure of the exact diameter of a clay but I can hit at that distance every shot.

April 2, 2004, 08:54 PM
Just wondering from your guys experiance, if I zero my 10/22 for 25yards how low will it be hitting at 50yards and 100yards?

April 2, 2004, 09:56 PM

A subject near & dear to my heart. I used to shoot NRA indoor smallbore, but haven't for years. Now it's gopher shooting. In Montana the 'gopher' is actually either a Richardson's or Cascade ground squirrel. Think a 1/2 size prairie dog & you've got it.

The action is fast & furious, burning a brick a day is not at all unheard of. Shots vary from 5 feet to 125 yards or more & anywhere inbetween, or longer. Consequently, I zero my .22's for 100 yards & compensate with mil-dots for under/over that distance.

Mil-dot scopes are a godsend for this type of shooting. There is no time to twist knobs.

In any case, to answer the question. Minute of gopher is perfectly possible without breaking the bank. Careful ammo testing & selection will do more for your accuracy than just about anything else. In my two best guns, Winchester Power-Points do best. P-P is not quite as good as dedicated target ammo, but VERY close. One is a full-on, done in Carroll Iowa, Volquartsen & the other is a Ruger 77/22.

Either will produce regular, repeatable, hits at 100 yards. Sorry, after doing ammo testing, which is about once a year, I don't shoot paper. No group sizes, don't care. Field hits are what count now.


April 2, 2004, 09:57 PM
mastinson .. ages since I did just that .. these days I am set for 50 yds and at 25 it is close enough to be ''useful'' ... in critter terms! :p Drp from 25 to 50 is relatively modest - it's after that things go very ''parabolic''!

IIRC, if I go 50 from 100, I have aim high approx 6.5 inches. This is with Fed bulk box BTW.

April 2, 2004, 10:40 PM
OK, so, in my paper-punching world, it sounds like I can keep groups small enough at 100 yards to keep things interesting.

I was originally going back and forth between .223 and .308, but .22lr will do most of what I want from .223, and it'll make .308 an easy choice, centerfire-wise.

April 2, 2004, 10:48 PM
With my CZ 452, I can hit the little round black stickers at 100 yards pretty consistantly.

April 2, 2004, 11:56 PM
Depends on the rifle/ammo combination. To find the brand of ammo that'll shoot extremely well out of any .22 rifle(and your definition of good) means you have to try as many brands as you can find.
I'm guessing you're not talking about low end .22 rifles or ammo either. Cheap ammo means less accuracy. Just as shooting it out of a cheap rilfe does.
If you're only getting 1 MOA at 50, you need better ammo, trigger or sights. Off a bench. Testing for accuracy any other way doesn't count. Too many variables, starting with the shooter. A good .22 is no different than a good .308. It needs good sights, trigger and barrel.
Tell us what rifle you're looking at using. It makes a difference.

R.H. Lee
April 3, 2004, 01:51 AM

I can pop golfballs @ 100yds with a near-stock 10/22 topped with a 4x scope using el-cheapo Federal Lightning 22lr. The Volquartsen hammer helps tremendously lighten the trigger pull. It is tedious because it requires the rifle be benchrested, I use exactly the correct amount of holdover, I hold my breath, and there is no wind.

At 50yds, no golfball is safe, even rapid fire.:)

April 3, 2004, 09:28 AM
It’s been many years since I did any experimenting with 22LR past 75 yds., but my experience parallels the others. I did find that ammunition that looked good at 25 or 50 yds. could change dramatically at 100 or 125 yds. One thing that seemed to matter was not having ammo that went trans-sonic at mid range. It could have been just coincidental, but the hypervelocity and sub-sonic target loads worked best at 100 yds. plus for me.

April 3, 2004, 09:50 AM
Accuracy does tend to drop off more at 100 yards than at 50 yards IMO. I can get very tight little groups at 50 yards with my scoped CZ-452 but at 100 yards, it is more than double. I can still peg a sporting clay at 100 yards and break the pieces with every shot as long as they are good sized. I have put it on paper at 100 yards but I estimate 1 1/2"-2" on a non-windy day. At 50 yards, I have no problem getting sub 1" groups. At 25 yards I can put them all into a ragged hole.

A .22lr will reach out to 100 yards but there will be 3-5" of drop and it won't have much punch by that time if you are using target ammo. If you are using hyper velocity ammo, most likely, your groups are not going to be very good at that distance. 100 yards is pushing what the .22lr can do. It can kill at that distance and it can hit small objects but past 75 yards, it gets so much harder to do to both.

April 3, 2004, 10:50 AM
We had a discussion of this on rimfire central recently, see here,


Basically, it is,,,,, If you sight-in for 59 yards, your bullets will only be +/- 1/2" from your POA [Point Of Aim] from 12 1/2 yards to 66 yards, and 1 1/4" low at 75 yards, and ~ 4 3/4" low at 100 yards. Your results may vary slightly.

Chuck Dye
April 3, 2004, 01:28 PM

Most 40 grain .22LR bullets have ballistic coefficients between 0.120 and 0.165 with muzzle velocities from 1085 feet per second to 1312 feet per second. Take those numbers to


and play with the sliders. Your ammo box should give you the muzzle velocity for your load. If the packaging does not indicate B.C., post, PM, or email what you have, and I’ll respond with info from the ammo library I have.

Remember, always, that empirical results trump theory and calculations and shoot a few tests of your own.

Anyone know who sells Eley Rabbit HV Solid (EL22HVS)? 40gr @ 1312fps and B.C.= 0.223.

July 13, 2009, 06:28 PM
I believe I could write volumes on .22 LR Accuracy at 100 yards. Instead of doing this at the moment, I will say it is possible to shoot 7/8 inch groups consistently with the right ammo and rifle. I have been trying for a one hole group (5 rounds) for years and still have not been able to do it on a regular basis. My favorite rifle for 100 yd. 22 LR competition is a Ruger 77/22 receiver, a 21 Lilja SS .920 barrel, and an crisp after market trigger with a 2 pound pull . The ammo my barrel likes best is the Lapua Master L. I can shoot 7/8 groups consistently with this rifle but almost do as good with a Mossburg 44 us(d) with Lapua ammo. Only thing I do not like about the combination is the pricey ammo.


July 13, 2009, 06:45 PM
I know they'll shoot 1 MOA at 50, but does it fall apart after that?

they can actually do a lot better than that.

July 13, 2009, 07:22 PM
Did this with a 6yr old stock Marlin 7000 and Wolf Target ammo at 100 yards:


July 13, 2009, 09:14 PM
That's about as good a group as I can get with a Marlin 60 and standard ammunition. Unless you're competing, other calibers seem more fun than 22s with paper targets. 22s, on the other hand, are great for punishing cans and plastic bottles from afar.

July 13, 2009, 09:29 PM
i just noticed that we were all answering a question thats over 5 years old

July 13, 2009, 09:43 PM
Yea, and it's called necroposting.

July 13, 2009, 10:14 PM
The question of 22 accuracy has been around much longer than the original posting. Probably as long as .22 LR has been around.

We have a group of about 20 shooters that have been shooting 100 yard on a SR-31 target for more years than I can remember. The norm for the good shooters is about a 7/8" group and any number of X's.

We have experimented with just about every ammo you can imagine available in the USA and generally only in higher end rifles. When I say higher end rifles I mean custom or the higher end Kimber or Anschutz. I also know some shooters that get the 7/8" groups with their stock CZ 452 American bolt action rifle.

I know exceptional accuracy is not unheard of in lower end .22 LR rifles, but consistentcy I believe is a function of quality control in the ammunition.

Same hole groups, lets say under .335" at 50 yards is just way to easy anymore after striving for extreme .22 LR accuracy at 100 yards for years.

Anyway to sum it all up, I do see sub MOA with a .22 LR at 100 yards all the time but never a same hole group on a consistent basis. I'll never say never but 100 yards is pushing the extreme accuracy envelope for .22 Long Rifle.

July 13, 2009, 11:51 PM
I have a thompson contender with a super 14 match grade barrel
at 25 yds one hole with rem bulk ammo
at 50 yds 1/2 '' same ammo
at 100 it oppens up to 2 1/2 to 3'' same ammo with about 6 in of drop.
winchester super x it has around 4 to 5 in of drop and the same size of groop. the same with cci mini mag.

July 14, 2009, 12:13 AM
Yea, and it's called necroposting. HA! did that one make the 2009 Websters Dictonary?

July 14, 2009, 12:18 AM
Just wondering from your guys experiance, if I zero my 10/22 for 25yards how low will it be hitting at 50yards and 100yards?

zero at 25 yards "dead-on"

it will hit about .25/.50 of an inch high at 50 yards

July 14, 2009, 12:41 AM
My CZ 452 will consistently lob 10 rounds into a sub 2" circle at 100 if the winds cooperate. That same group is about 6" below my POA though. All of that out of cheapy federal champion. One of these days I will get some wolf match and take my time.

July 14, 2009, 12:59 AM
I'm with CB900F. I was able to make one-shot kills (head or neck) on woodchucks at 175 yards with my former Ruger 10/22HB. The single best group I ever fired with it was 1 & 7/8th inch at 225 yards off the bench. It shocked my Father, brother and cousins who all contended that no .22LR could fire that accurately.

In those days, 1 or 2 bricks of ammo was the norm when firing my Kimber .22LR rifle, two Ruger 10/22HBs, Ruger 77/22, a Contender pistol in .22LR MATCH, and a Marlin Model 25. Oh yeah, and a Mark II Slabside. Sheesh...was that enough?! I admit, the .22LR is my favorite.

I will say that if you intend to fire your .22LRs at distance, forget paper. Buy some nice, swinging, steel targets. I used life-sized woodchucks in armor plate, and set them at 175 to 225 yards. Pull the trigger and wait for the "ping!" If you can hit it 10 for 10, you're ready to varmint hunt. If you're concerned about grouping, place a few red stickers on the steel and blast them off.


Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 14, 2009, 08:20 AM
Yeah, 1 MOA at 50 can easily turn into 2.5-3 MOA at 100, in changing swirling winds. Also got to contend with that severe drop.

July 14, 2009, 08:42 AM
20 years ago, when my eyes were sharper, I would shoot 1" 100 yard groups with a 22 BSA Martini.

With iron sights. (Match peep and ring front)

Wish I still could. :cool:

July 14, 2009, 10:47 PM
If you use a centerfire scope at rimfire ranges you can have some significant parallax errors. Most rimfire scopes are parallax corrected at 50yds. Most centerfire scopes are corrected a 150yds.

To test for a problem set the rifle on something steady and sight on a target at 30-50yds, without moving the rifle move your head up and down and side to side while viewing the target. Parallax shows up as the crosshairs moving on the target.

Keeping your eye as well centered as possible behind the scope also minimizes the error.

An adjustable objective scope is the best solution to the problem.

July 15, 2009, 12:24 AM
zero at 25 yards "dead-on"

it will hit about .25/.50 of an inch high at 50 yards

That is about right. I now sight my better scoped rifles in a 50 yds. But in the past, I was more concerned about "minute of squirrel precision" and always sighted in at 25 yds. For general shooting, sighting in at 25 yds works just fine and it is easier to achieve good groups with cheaper ammo.

Most 22 rifles and shooters struggle to do much better than 1 MOA with a 22 rifle. That is approximately 0.5" groups at 50 yds. The groups open up at 100 yds quite a bit and most can't do 1" groups at 100 yds except with the best ammo.

The question may have been posed in 2004. But it is just as pertinent today as then.

July 15, 2009, 12:12 PM
I can print 1.5" groups at 50 yards with my Savage MKII with bulk ammo, and I'm what you would call a less-than-stellar/average marksman.

July 15, 2009, 12:43 PM
that is where we sight our 22 rifles in with.
i swear, my .22 mossberg 702 plinkster, although it's a mossberg, can hit things with astounding accuracy at 100 yards. so does our bolt action savage 22 with accu trigger. if you get the right scope, and are really good with being accurate, you can hit things accuratly at 100 yards with a .22
and, i use federal value ammo pack 36 gr copper plated hollow point with a 5.6" drop at 100 yards.
just set your scope accordingly.

July 15, 2009, 07:27 PM
Not a 22LR but a 17 HMR at 100yds 25 rounds, rifle is a Savage 93R17 FV I have a Savage MK II FV 22 LR that I'm hoping will do the same when its dialed in.


Bill B.
July 15, 2009, 09:15 PM
I was able to make one-shot kills (head or neck) on woodchucks at 175 yards with my former Ruger 10/22HB. The single best group I ever fired with it was 1 & 7/8th inch at 225 yards off the bench. It shocked my Father, brother and cousins who all contended that no .22LR could fire that accurately.

That's some amazing shooting with a .22 LR! What type of scope rings & scope do use on that 10/22?

July 17, 2009, 08:54 AM
I mounted the base with red LockTite and epoxied it to the receiver. I used Redfield steel rings, and a 4X target scope with AO and target turrets. You don't need massive magnification...you just need consistent placement of the crosshairs. For consistent placement, I used a black, steel target, and affixed 2" hunter orange/red dots. The crosshairs covered about 1 & 7/8" at 225 yards. In effect, I was able to see nothing more of the target dots than 4 miniscule points of orange/red on the black background at the 10:30, 2:30, 4:30 and 8:30 positions in the scope. I was also shot from the picnic table with a bi-pod and sandbag. Get a system in place, and replicate your process. This particular 10/22HB (the blued one) had such a tight chamber that I had to spray it clean and run a clean cloth through it every 10 or so rounds or it would not chamber. I was never able to get such accuracy from the 77/22...not ever.

Bill B.
July 17, 2009, 01:18 PM
crosshairs covered about 1 & 7/8" at 225 yards. In effect, I was able to see nothing more of the target dots than 4 miniscule points of orange/red on the black background at the 10:30, 2:30, 4:30 and 8:30 positions in the scope.

That's exactly the reason I asked because with .22 bullet drop at 225 yards most scopes run out of adj. to be able hold directly on the target? A 40 gr. .22 rimfire bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1,255 fps has an advertised drop of about 32 inches at 200 yards.

July 17, 2009, 06:37 PM
What kind of accuracy can one expect from a very good .22lr rifle at 100 yards?

Not sure if my Savage MKIIF/Accutrigger can be considered a very good rifle but on a calm day, I can shoot 1" 5-shot groups at 100 meters using bulkpack whitebox Winchester Dynapoints (40 grain plated HP bullets), if I do my part.

Once in a while, I can see the POI more than an inch from POA, but I may have pulled that shot, or just inconsistent bulk ammo.

I can see that with more than half my shots, POI is, or almost POA.
Using a 3-9X x 32 AO Bushnell Sportview, I can usually see the POI on the bullseye. I zero the scope, set to max magnification (9) and the AO at 100meters. Groups at 50 meters are about 4 inches high.

Maybe I got lucky with this MKIIF. Bought it "used" three weeks ago for Canadian$200, including scope. It shoots just a tiny bit better than my CZ452 Style and Varmint, meaning I get more 1" groups with the MKIIF.

July 17, 2009, 09:13 PM

Nope, I had plenty of adjustment. For hunting, though, I set the zero at 175 yards, then paced off 175 yards to the woodchucks' holes.

Edit to add:

Hopefully on Sunday I will have the time and energy to get my K82G with 36X to the range. :evil: I have had the chance to fire it at 30 yards with the target sights, and it placed all shots into a single hole. Now it's time to test the 100 yards range with some serious magnification.


Bill B.
July 18, 2009, 05:34 AM
Hopefully on Sunday I will have the time and energy to get my K82G with 36X to the range.

The latest and greatest Leupold Target Competition Series 35x45mm Riflescope has a 38-MOA of both windage and elevation adjustment. If the scope is adj. to it's mid point and centered in it rings this only give's you 19 MOA adj. unless you do one of 2 things: Use offset rings or shim your scope mounts. A .22 LR with it's rainbow trajectory drops more at 200 yards than a 36x scope can be adj. unless you do one of the two.

July 18, 2009, 06:33 PM

I won't be trying this at 200 yards anytime soon. I'd have to go north for that. The range here is only 100 yards. I bought this scope last year for testing 100 yards loads in my centerfires, and just thought I'd try it for a better magnification. The scope I referred to on the Ruger 10/22HB was a 4X, target turrets and AO. I understand what you're saying. Many scopes run out of adjustment. That little 4X didn't. I only wish I still had it.


July 19, 2009, 12:30 AM
should be able to find one, that likes a certain ammo, and get it to shoot moa at 100 yds. As a matter of fact, I will say it like this; I have never not had one, that as long as I tried enough ammo, could not shoot moa at 100 yds...
except a stock ruger 10.22, but anything else can do it, I am sure of it.
the ammo search is the thing.

April 26, 2010, 10:03 PM
just saw this, figured i'd keep it going....

5-shot 3/4" group @ 100yds (i have it taped to the wall, i can grab a pict of it.

Scope: Tasco 3-9x
Rifle: Remington 511-X Scoremaster
Ammo: Federal 711B [subsonic ammo] (this is the KEY to the groups)

This was on a bipod with a rear sandbag. I used to do 1-1/2" groups all day. i managed to do this and was amazed. I also shot out a shotgun primer straight-through at 75yds.

April 27, 2010, 02:25 AM
Talking with the folks I hold in high regard, smallbore guns at 100 yards can only to expected to group one minute of angle with any regularity. Anything smaller than that has a factor of luck in it. Our biggest problem is the lack of the ability to load our own ammo.

I have had a number of 1in 100 shot groups at 100 yards. A couple of times, I've had 5-7 shot groups that would fit under a dime, but I know there was a hint of luck in there.

April 27, 2010, 03:09 PM
Seems to be that ammunition matters (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/04/22-lr-ammunition-accuracy-55-types-tested/)

My CZ 452 tends to shoot under 1 MOA at 100 with premium ammo like Midas M.

April 27, 2010, 05:36 PM
i agree as well. everything just worked that group. true, if we could reload .22, just imagine!

i find doing groups on grid paper at 100yds with a bolt .22 the coolest thing. I just zone out and can go all day.

Texas Gun Person
April 27, 2010, 06:00 PM
My friend can take my TOZ-78 and hit a 6x6 steel bullet trap at 300 yards. Shot after shot.

He's better than I am with my own gun. :(

However, my little stock TOZ-78 can out shoot a 10/22 that has a lot more money put into it. :D

March 5, 2011, 03:56 PM
Some of your may be aware of this new activity... if not, you might want to check out the following


March 5, 2011, 07:06 PM
Some of your may be aware of this new activity... if not, you might want to check out the following

That looks like a lot of fun. I want to find a place around me that does things like this.

country boy marksman
March 5, 2011, 10:14 PM
A few weeks back I sighted in a new scope on my 10/22, and when I went from my target stand at 25 yards to one at 150 yards, it dropped a noticeable amount, but still shot very consistent groups while standing, and was very impressive resting. When I fed cci stingers through it, I had to readjust the point of aim, but it still shot straight! In my 10/22 or in my other 22's, its performance (especially for it's price) never ceases to amaze me!

In other words, at 100 yards, one can expect very good accuracy, in my opinion

March 5, 2011, 10:25 PM
Was glancing over this thread and getting re-interested in taking my .22 out. It has been quite awhile.

Speaking of quite awhile -

This thread was started in 2004...

Resurrected last year.. :scrutiny: Necro's must be out. :eek:

March 6, 2011, 02:45 PM
In the interest of pursing the question regarding how to minimize five shot groups of 22 rim fire rifle systems (RS) I would offer the following to improve our comparisons of results and help each other improve our skills:

1. Given that the idea of "MOA" is applicable to the rifle, sight, ammunition, and the shooter as a group of parts acting as a unit or system.

2. Agreeing for the sake of this discussion that the rifle, sight, ammunition, and shooter can be in the future, identified as a "Rifle System" or "RS."

3. Agreeing for the sake of this discussion and as an example, an "RS" consisting of a Remington model 511p rife, with peep sights, Federal UltraMatch and myself as the shooter would be identified as rifle system:
"R511/1x/Fed.UM/usmc_1371" or if using an 4x scope
"R511/4x/Fed.UM/usmc_1371" or if using an 8x scope and Fed Match
"R511/8x/Fed.M/usmc_1371" etc. etc.

OK... now... assuming that your not sickened nor rejected by my poor effort to clarify our results/efforts, I would be interested in comments from anyone on the following questions.

a. What difference in group size have been realized between two RS with the only difference being Scope vs Open sights at any distance?

b. What difference in group size has been experienced with an open-sight RS at 25, 75, and 100 yards?

c. What is the best "target bull" size for open vs scope sighted RS shooting at 25, 75, and 100 yards.

The above questions/interest is not associated with bullet drop nor wind, which I would consider different questions or threads.


March 6, 2011, 04:45 PM
If conditions are good 1 moa is quite doable.

Pete D.
March 6, 2011, 08:57 PM
I was shooting in a .22 prone match at the Wilkes-Barre Rifle and Pistol club some years ago. The fellow shooting on the point next to mine was a young man from Annapolis. I watched him (well, I saw the target when he was done.) watched him shoot ten shots into the X-ring (one inch diameter) at 100 yards. No bench...slinged up prone and no scope, aperture sights.
Yeah, its doable.
BTW - he didn't win the match. Smallbore Prone - perfect scores are common....a game of Xs.

March 6, 2011, 09:29 PM
I did this using iron sights I was dialing in at the same time I shot this 10 shot group at one hundred yards. Rifle is a 52C winchester using redfield sights. I probably could have gotten MOA if I had not adjusted after every shot as I was trying to zero my sights.


March 6, 2011, 09:42 PM
Let me add this to a 2004 post before the moderators shut it down:

I have started shooting small bore prone, because it is hard, and because it makes me a better prone centerfire shooter.

At Camp Perry this year, I got to meet Mr. Charles Kemp, the 2010 Camp Perry iron sight National Champ and high civilian.

I asked him what his rifle could shoot, he told me it shot consistent 10 shot groups at 100 yards of 0.39”.

Mr. Kemp extensively tests ammo, and won the Nationals with one lot of Red Box Eley. He told me there is no such thing as “best ammo”, each brand and lot must be tested in the firearm.

These are pictures of Mr. Kemp and his M52D rifle. Basically the action and trigger are M52D . Mr. Kemp said he was able to get a pound pull out of the factory trigger, (mine follows around 1.5 pounds!) but that it was still too heavy as it took too long to break in wind gusts.

Let me tell you, the wind blows like nothing you have ever seen up there on the shores of Lake Erie.




This is probably an average target for Mr Kemp, but for me, it is one of my best.


Pete D.
March 7, 2011, 02:31 AM
Nice shooting. Very nice.
Question: About the 1.5lb trigger and your Anschutz, is that correct?.....I was under the impression that Anschutz triggers(and 52Ds, etc.) were measured in ounces, not pounds. My prone rifle, an FWB, is only a few ounces....why so heavy a trigger? Even my Anschutz Biathlon rifle trigger is pretty light, ounces - though that may be nearer to your 1.5 pounds. (I'd expect Mr. Kemp's trigger to be 3/4 of an ounce and yours - with that fine target - to be 1.5 ounces as opposed to pounds.)

March 7, 2011, 06:34 AM
After reading this thread it got me wanting to get back into 22 shooting.Just how accurate can I expect to get out of a dedicated 22 upper on my colt AR?I had a ruger 77/22 that was very accurate but sold it{I can get it back}Since the dedicated 22 ar and the ruger can be had for almost the same price do you feel that the 22AR would be as accurate?

Friendly, Don't Fire!
March 7, 2011, 06:39 AM
When I used to shoot NRA 50' indoor range at 12 years old, I made Sharpshooter.

I recall hitting the bullseye many times, basically one ragged hole, perhaps 1/4" in diameter. Multiply that by six to get the size group at 100 yards and we are talking 1.5" groups. And that was even with ammo that today would be considered not accurate (there is a much better assortment of ammo today than there was in 1968).

However, that was with a bolt action heavy barrel 22 LR Reminton Matchmaster.

March 7, 2011, 12:31 PM
I've fired a few groups of less then 1.00 @100yd with my custom 10/22 and a stock Marlin 981T using match ammo, but honestly I view the 22lr as a 50-75 yard round but 100 yards and beyond I prefer center fire rounds just seems more enjoyable to me. Nothing wrong with trying to wring out maximum accuracy with any rifle but each has it's own niche..

March 8, 2011, 11:10 AM
I just really enjoy popping clay pigeons at 100, 200, and 300 yards with a semiauto, cheap ammo, and some guesstimated hold over. I'm zeroed at 50 yards. 100 yards is the where the duplex reticle goes from thin to thick. 300 yards is holding all the way at the bottom of the picture. It's sort of like walking artillery in...

March 8, 2011, 11:24 AM
Well here is a snow shot at a prairie dog at 220 yards using a Marlin 60 and Walmart Federal Bulk.

March 8, 2011, 11:26 AM
You can see the 27" shooting bench on its side, off in the distance.

Pete D.
March 10, 2011, 08:57 AM
Keb: That snowy field looks COLD.

March 14, 2011, 08:29 PM
Question: About the 1.5lb trigger and your Anschutz, is that correct?.....I was under the impression that Anschutz triggers(and 52Ds, etc.) were measured in ounces, not pounds. My prone rifle, an FWB, is only a few ounces....why so heavy a trigger? Even my Anschutz Biathlon rifle trigger is pretty light, ounces - though that may be nearer to your 1.5 pounds. (I'd expect Mr. Kemp's trigger to be 3/4 of an ounce and yours - with that fine target - to be 1.5 ounces as opposed to pounds

My Anschutz dates from 1966. Back then triggers were three pounds. I sent the trigger off to

Todd Toenges
2304 Langford Ave.
Modesto, CA 95350

And Mr Tonenges reduced the trigger pull to 1.5 pounds.

Mr. Kemp wrote on a piece of paper, 3/4 pound trigger. He wanted a lighter trigger, said it took too long to build up pressure in gusting wind.

I have handled two stage triggers with a final pull weight of 3 ounces. Too darn light for my ham hands.

September 21, 2014, 01:35 PM
The 22 LR is very capable of consistent 1.5" groups at 100 yards.

As a kid growing up in east TX hunting squirrels with a single shot .22 rifle I didn't know just how accurate the round was until I recently regained my interested in hunting/shooting and have started shooting again at a local range.

September 21, 2014, 02:37 PM
I don't know if it is kosher to post on such an old thread. I can shoot around 2 inches with Federal auto match at 100 yards with my either of my CZ 452s. With my Remington 540XR I can get 1 inch barely sometimes at 100 yards with Eley ammo outdoors light breeze. That is at a range with witnesses. I get one hole groups at 50 yards. My guess that a lot of these post are pure bs. If it did not happened witnessed at a range it did not happen.
But I can be surprised. A few weeks ago a guy tied me for first. I was shooting a CZ 452 and he was shooting a stock Ruger 10/22. Both rifles were stock but I wouldn't have though anyone with a stock 10/22 could match me. This was at a club turkey shoot. And I have seen some crazy shots made so something that sounds like bs could remotely possibly be true once. but I will believe it when I see it and a fluke is a fluke.

September 21, 2014, 02:49 PM
Also my rifle is sighted zero at 25, 1 inch low at 50 and 8.5 inches at 100 with ss ammo.

September 21, 2014, 02:56 PM
It is evident from some posts that they are making up trajectory figure and that their scope combos do not have that much adjustment so whatever.

December 13, 2014, 01:31 PM
I have been shooting Aquila Rifle Match the past 2 years.
Tested Federal 711B last April and more accurate. Then this past August tested Norma TAC-22 and as accurate as the 711B at 77 meters, off sandbags. I bought 7 bricks from our club pistol director w same lot#. Because the Aquila and Federal are unavailable in case qty, I was able to buy an unopened factory case of the TAC-22, last week. $571.17 delv'd. If you have a chance, you might want to test the Norma TAC-22. Some are comparing it to higher priced Wolf, SK, and Eley as an example, in their rifles. I won't get a chance to test the TAC-22 at 100 meters until 2016, when I have used up my 1/2+ case Aguila Rifle Match. What I saw at 77 meters was good enough for me. We start indoor off hand 50ft paper practice in January thru April, then outdoor out to 100 meters.
Just my .02cents on mid priced target ammo in my rifle. It is nice to revive old threads!

December 13, 2014, 02:45 PM
I have found also that the Norma TAC-22 (re-badged RWS) ammo shoots good. I drive it out to 400yds or so and it does well. I haven't chrono'd it yet but it's quiet shooting suppressed so it's probably in the 1000fps range. Definitely a good option when you can find it compared to the higher priced match stuff.

December 13, 2014, 02:58 PM

custom bench gun.

Cee Zee
December 13, 2014, 04:54 PM
Nice shooting tuj!

BTW this thread dates back to 2004. This has to be a record for zombie threads.

I shot this one with my CZ 453. 5 shots from 50 yards.


Pete D.
December 14, 2014, 06:49 AM
Slamfire: Understood about the trigger weights as you have described them.
Thanks for the info.

December 14, 2014, 08:00 PM
Since 2011 I have continued to shoot small bore prone, I have upgraded my rifle to a 1976 version:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Anschutz/M1413Anschutz1976barrel_zps08de65e6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/Anschutz/M1413Anschutz1976barrel_zps08de65e6.jpg.html)

As my round and match count has increased, I have been using lighter triggers. I believe the rifle is set up for a 4 ounce first stage and an 8 ounce second stage trigger. I am of the opinion that a light trigger is an advantage as you move the rifle less upon trigger release. You can shoot exceptional scores with heavier triggers, you just have to pay more attention to your hand and finger movements.

I rarely shoot ten X cleans at 100 yards. These are exceptional match targets for me:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Anschutz/M1413100-10Xtarget2_zps193fbd32.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/Anschutz/M1413100-10Xtarget2_zps193fbd32.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Anschutz/M1413100-10Xtarget1_zpsa545416d.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/Anschutz/M1413100-10Xtarget1_zpsa545416d.jpg.html)

For me to shoot a 10X clean (the X ring is about ) it has to be a really good day. Twenty two bullets are so wind sensitive that winds cant be nasty gusty or swirling. I need enough sunlight to read the mirage. The slightest wind increase will blow bullets out to the nine ring. If the wind is consistent and predictable I can really lay them in the X ring.

You still can shoot exceptionally well with vintage 22 LRs such as the Remington M37. Unless the M37 has an aftermarket trigger, the pull weight is no less than 3.0 pounds. The stock follows the match rules of the period, which were written by the military, so that a small bore rifle stock was as close in configuration to a type C M1903 or Garand stock as possible. This M37was owned by Larry Moore, Larry is on the front of this http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1956issues/G1256.pdf Dec 1956 Guns Magazine. The Club President shot long range with Larry Moore and was able to buy this M37 from Larrys estate. It has an Eric Johnson barrel, which was first class in its day. The President shot in a local 22 LR prone match, but he decided to shoot F Class, that is with a rest. These are two of his 100 yard bulls.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/DSCF3607M37RemingtonLarryMoore22LR_zpsbde4a630.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/DSCF3607M37RemingtonLarryMoore22LR_zpsbde4a630.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/EricJohnsonBarrelonLarryMooreM37_zps8221d129.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/EricJohnsonBarrelonLarryMooreM37_zps8221d129.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/M37LarryMoore2_zps4bddbf17.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/M37LarryMoore2_zps4bddbf17.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/M37LarryMoore1_zps12b0efd2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/Rem%20M37/M37LarryMoore1_zps12b0efd2.jpg.html)

For practice, I still drag out vintage blunderbusses, this H &R M12 is one I have been having fun shooting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/HR%20M12%20Rimfire%20Rifle/IMG_4214HampRM12_zps1e7b837b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/HR%20M12%20Rimfire%20Rifle/IMG_4214HampRM12_zps1e7b837b.jpg.html)

Recently I shot this target in practice, prone with a sling at 100 yards.Still, the horrible stock configuration and heavy (3 pound) trigger work against best consistency. With a better stock and trigger this would be a very competitive rifle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/HR%20M12%20Rimfire%20Rifle/HampRM12EleyEdge100yds1_zps0e2246c4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Rifles%20various/HR%20M12%20Rimfire%20Rifle/HampRM12EleyEdge100yds1_zps0e2246c4.jpg.html)

Having enough 22 LRs to compare, I can say that matching the ammunition to the rifle is critical for best accuracy. As a general rule, the more expensive ammunition is more consistent. However, I have shot some amazing groups with lower priced, Eley Club, RWS Target, SK Match plus. Rifles are picky, for example, the H&R M12 shoots my lot of Club very well, pukes on RWS Target. RWS Target shoots exceptionally well in my BSA Martini. I cannot explain it, perhaps it is due to randomness, but I really think, you have to test particular lots of ammunition in the rifle, and which lot shoots best in one rifle will not necessarily shoot best in another.

For reference, I copied these numbers from the Eley Presentation given at the 2014 Small Bore Prone National Matches at Elkhart IN 2014

Factory Range Ammunition Test results

Anschutz M1913 serial number 3,125, 490
Red Box Tennex

600 rounds, (100 meters) 22.7mm extreme spread

Walther rifle
Same lot Red Box Tennex

600 rounds (100 meters) 25.7 mm extreme spread

Eley has its own in door range, is not shooting these rounds outside where the winds can blow the bullets around.

December 14, 2014, 08:09 PM
I used to shoot in 200 yard NRA matches in MA over 20 years ago at Old Colony in Duxbury and there were plenty of 22lr shooters that held their own with Win 52's and Anschuts.

That little rifle is capable of exceptional accuracy at 100 yds

Good luck and shoot straight


December 16, 2014, 08:09 AM
My range buddy has a Ruger 10-22 with bull barrel, with a 10x scope on it. We shoot ping-pong balls at 100 yards, and rarely miss. That is with a sand bag at the bench, and no wind.

General Geoff
December 18, 2014, 02:55 AM
My factory-stock Marlin 980S-CF with a $75 Simmons scope on it will do 2 inch groups all day at 100 yards, with cheapo bulk ammo. With better ammo, the rifle is capable of 1.5 inch groups. These are 5 round groups, btw.

Pete D.
December 19, 2014, 07:09 AM
Slamfire: Those are sweet targets. Gotta smile at them.
It has been rewarding to watch your progress as a shooter/competitor over the years on this and other fora. You keep on getting better.


December 19, 2014, 11:05 AM
My old Remington 512 bolt gun shoots 1.5 MOA at 100 yards on a calm day. Won't when it's windy, of course. Time of flight can be measured with a calender. I've not tried it with match ammo, this is with high velocity stuff. It shoots one hole groups at 50 yards with RWS Target, seems to prefer that to Eley match or 10X, go figure. I got that old rifle 53 years ago for my ninth birthday and it still shoots lights out. No telling how many squirrels it's taken over the years and it's beaten up plenty of Marlins in "plinker shoots" with the gun club I used to belong to. :D

Red Cent
December 19, 2014, 12:06 PM
Better not fool with her.


December 20, 2014, 03:23 PM
Slamfire: Those are sweet targets. Gotta smile at them.
It has been rewarding to watch your progress as a shooter/competitor over the years on this and other fora. You keep on getting better

Thank you for the nice words. I am cherry picking my targets of course, there are trash cans full of targets I don’t want to talk about and will deny having made. If anything, it is all down to practice, practice, and more practice. Small bore prone matches end either October or November, because the weather, rainy season comes in and match directors don’t like showing up and being the only person at the range. So in the down period, I have been playing with some of the vintage rifles I started shooting. I posted the H&R M12 targets, just recently shot my M52D. I am surprised on just how well I shot the M52D with a scope, and some of the iron sight groups. I was not as consistent seven years ago with the rifle and that proves I have learned something since then.

My Anschutz match 22LR’s have stock adjustments that put me into one orientation as I shoot. Head position, hand position, shoulder position, can be dialed in and it makes one heck of a difference in consistency. Of the rifles I shoot, 22 LR's are the only ones where trigger pull consistency shows up on the target. You see the bullet move if you hit the trigger too hard or off axis. Everything affects everything.

So having learned some things from the “better” rifles, I am finding that my vintage rifles were actually, quite accurate, if you learn how to shoot them. Still, working on shooting a 1200 out of 120 rounds, or a 1600 out of 160 rounds. Talked to Joe Farmer at the Nationals, he is 85, and still shoots the occasional 1600, go Joe!

Picture of Joe here: http://riflebarrels.com/winners/default.htm

December 20, 2014, 08:07 PM
This is a target I shot at 50 yards, 5 shots each, all consecutive, no re-shoots. Rifle was a stock CZ 452, ammunition was Eley Club.


Group sizes were as follows:


Average = 0.294" (rounded up)

Cee Zee
December 21, 2014, 01:49 AM
There are some good shooters on this board. I guess I've got few cherry picked targets myself. :) I have quite a few of them I guess so at some point it gets beyond sheer luck. But with a .22 there's always some luck involved because the ammo isn't perfect. And as was said before the trigger pull is critical. It doesn't take much to move a bullet around 50 yards down range when you're measuring groups by the 1/100th of an inch or less.

Here's one I don't post a lot.

And one more just for the people who say I always post the same groups. ;)


December 21, 2014, 02:35 AM
Oh man, I love shooting yotes at long range. Though it isn't much of a testament to accuracy, I like to walk the rounds in on them at 200 - 300 yds. with a 3x9 Leupold. I do it with one of my 10/22's, or with one of my Marlin 60's, it's a gas. I can usually get my mark on them within the first 3 shots, it's all over after that.


Yorkshire shooter
December 21, 2014, 04:02 AM
Hi all from across the pond,myCZ 452 would pull under 1ins groups at 100m with no real hardship wind being a factor,,but my rifle with over the counter SK ammo was a tack driver , the next 5 rounds same position ect use thunderbolts and the paper would look like a M60 beaten zone, you have to try lots of ammo:
Cheers Gary

December 21, 2014, 10:18 AM
Was walking my scope in a couple of weeks ago at 100 yards. Browning T-Bolt with 3-9x40 Zeiss Conquest using CCI Std. Velocity. The black dots were to cover someone else's shots on the target left on the stand.


December 21, 2014, 02:04 PM
No target to show, but my best group to-date was .495 for five shots with a CZ 452 Lux, 3-9x scope, Federal Ultra Match, shot at midnight in a lighted outdoor tunnel range. I quit then because I assumed that was as good as it (read I) could ever get...

I've never attempted it again since I don't have any of the ammo, rifle, or range access that I used to.


December 21, 2014, 07:46 PM

10 shots, Kimber 82G with Leupold 36x, Eley sport ammo (e.g. cheap stuff). The target was actually 240 yards, so ignore the MOA.

Cee Zee
December 21, 2014, 08:00 PM
What the heck. Here's another one for those that claim I always post the same targets. Imagine that. They're surprised that I post my best targets. Hmm...


This one is from 90 yards with my Savage. .331 at 90 yards isn't bad is it?


Here's another 90 yard target I shot with my Marlin 60SS. I don't think they believe me when I say I have a lot of these. .284 at 90 yards shot off the hood of a truck resting on an old towel. I have two more groups on the same target BTW.


I shot this group right after the 3 shot group above again at 90 yards.


There are more for all you naysayers. Maybe I'll post those later. Well maybe one more now. 50 yards with my CZ this time.


So am I really cherry picking? Because I have a bunch more of these but I don't want to hog all the fun.

December 21, 2014, 10:46 PM
My most accurate .22lr rifle (Suomen Leijona, bolt action single shot) does one hole at 50m and always hits a beer can at 160 meters.

Cee Zee
December 22, 2014, 02:14 AM
Suomen Leijona, bolt action single shot

I am not familiar with that rifle at all. Can you give us some details? It sounds like a fine shooter.

I did a Google search and found some info. First that it's called "The Finnish Lion". That makes for quite a translation there. We have the term "finish line" which sounds very similar. But I'd like to know how common the rifles are in Finland. I saw where some were exported to the US but I've never even heard of one much less seen one. Are they all as accurate as yours? I understand that they take shooting seriously in Finland (along with driving). I've seen several photos on Google but no two of them seem to be the same so I'm at a loss as to what they look like.

Pete D.
December 26, 2014, 04:38 AM
The target rifle suomen leijona
is manufactured by Valmet.

December 26, 2014, 03:48 PM
They were manufactured from the 30's to the 80's I think, so there are many variations.
Mine looks like this one http://fi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomen_Leijona
except has bipod and scope.

December 26, 2014, 09:23 PM
I am a standard 40x guy
Iron sights at 100 , couple 5 shot dime groups
Even the sporter shoots well, too bad about the 5 th flier in this one at 100, 4 at least were in! Still working up ammo

Cee Zee
December 27, 2014, 10:24 AM
Nice rifles. I've never seen one before. I guess they didn't make it to this part of the world much. Now the 40X was pretty common relatively speaking but we didn't see stuff like Anschutz rifles either.

December 27, 2014, 12:33 PM
Not rare for sure, they are just my style!

Cee Zee
December 28, 2014, 10:40 AM
Where I live they're rare. I've been around guns for over 50 years and I've never seen one if that tells you anything. I don't doubt some areas of the US have seen a few of them. Just not in the back woods world I live in.

Pete D.
December 29, 2014, 06:34 AM
Not one but three Unertl scopes. Wow.

Ricky T
December 29, 2014, 06:45 AM
Wow, very impressive.

I've only dabbled a little with .22LR out to 50 yards as I don't have a scope. How much does a .22 actually drop at 100 yds and 200 yards?

Cee Zee
December 29, 2014, 12:16 PM
How much does a .22 actually drop at 100 yds and 200 yards?

That depends on which .22 cartridge you are talking about. A Aguila Colibri .22 LR is going to be lucky to make it 100 yards. But a hyper velocity Aguila Super Maximum round is barely going to drop at all at 100 yards. The middle of the road CCI SV round will drop around a foot or so at 200 yards. It drops maybe 3"-4" at 100 yards. That's just guessing. Barrel length matters as does rifle design. Semi-autos don't shoot quite as far because some of the power is used to cycle the action.

December 30, 2014, 10:26 PM
Thx Pete, I love my external adjust scopes

December 30, 2014, 11:20 PM
Just looked through some of my sillouete doping cards. Standard HV 40gr 1240fps. Sighted at 50, drops 6"@100, 43"@200. Sighted at 100 drops 32"@200. Unless I shim my scope I run out of up adjustment at 240yds.

Pete D.
December 31, 2014, 11:16 AM
When using Federal ultramatch .22s from my Anschutz, the come up from 50 yards to 100 yards is 38 clicks. Iirc the clicks are 5mm per at 100 meters (they are 2.5mm at 50 meters and .5mm at 10 meters).

January 1, 2015, 05:27 PM
Kimber 82
Iron sights
Bench, front rest
Wolf Match Extra
100 yds
8 rds,

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