To COLT or not to COLT


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hansolo
April 2, 2004, 08:49 PM
Getting to the point: I'm looking for a 1911 .45 ACP Range Gun...don't want to go much over $600.00...I'm not a GunSnob, but words like Colt get me excited. Is the Colt 1991 NRM that much better than the SA Milspec and Charles Daly for a Fun Gun? I can afford the Colt, but the others are a lot cheaper..

Opinions?

I'm probably buying the Colt, but a really good talker may sway me toward the less expensive .45s

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Sean Smith
April 2, 2004, 08:56 PM
Is the Colt 1991 NRM that much better than the SA Milspec and Charles Daly for a Fun Gun?

The 01991 is about exactly as much better than the SA Milspec as the price difference suggests. Which is to say, the SA is nice, but the Colt is better.

I would consider the Chucky D a step or two down from the Colt. Not really in the same class, based on the ones I've played with. Too crude, felt like they were full of sand.

There is no free ride. Colt takes the fewest material shortcuts of any mass-produced 1911. The ones I've owned were reliable and accurate. My experience with the NRM in particular was very positive. 100% reliable with everything and very accurate.

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=13743

tc300mag1
April 2, 2004, 09:00 PM
I would buy a Colt if i could find one .. Otherwise the SA milspec would be my choice for a Range gun.

hansolo
April 2, 2004, 09:14 PM
Thanks for pushing me over the edge! Is there some kind of shortage of new Colts?........."...if you can find one."? I see them on Gunbroker.com, but prefer to buy from humans. Looks like I better hit the local Dens of Gun-iquity.

Thanks

bradvanhorn
April 2, 2004, 09:30 PM
I was just at the range, and they received a call from one of their distributors who said that Colt workers went on strike today. That might not do much to help boost the availability of Colt 1911's.

Quintin Likely
April 2, 2004, 09:47 PM
I've been extremely impressed by my NRM stainless 1991 Commander. I'm planning on adding a 5" NRM Gummint model to my collection in the near future.

Detritus
April 2, 2004, 10:42 PM
they received a call from one of their distributors who said that Colt workers went on strike today.

it may be splitting hairs to some but... they didn't strike, they were locked out.
means COLT made the move to not extend negotiations, and sent teh workers home. instead of the worker's walking out.

Lobotomy Boy
April 3, 2004, 12:23 AM
I found a new Series 80 for sale at a local range for a tick over $600. This place used to be high priced, but these days their prices are within reason, so I suspect that this is no more than $10 or $20 over rock bottom pricing--except this guy seems to be the only person in town with a new Colt 1911 for sale.

I thought the safety and the firing-pin block on the Series 80 looked a little fussy, but the overall quality seemed good.

longeyes
April 3, 2004, 01:10 AM
I've seen new Colts at King's in Glendale. L.A. Guns (laguns.com), on the Sunset Strip (of all places), advertises new Colts.

Majic
April 3, 2004, 01:41 AM
Colts been selling as fast as they hit the shelves. Plus there is never a big shipment of them coming in at any one time compared to the other big names.

echo3mike
April 3, 2004, 07:06 AM
I think you'll be pleased with the Colt.

And remember... if you buy the Colt, you MAY want to buy the Springfield / CD later. If you buy the Springfield/ CD, you WILL want the Colt.

Get it out of the way now.

S.

Rob96
April 3, 2004, 07:17 AM
This past June when I was shopping for a new 1911, I looked at the Kimber TLE II, Springfield Loaded and a stainless NRM Colt . The Colt came home with me. The others just didn't have that "feel". For a Gov't model it is a real tack driver. Yes the slide to frame fit is a little loose, but the barrle to to slide fit is just right, and has 100% total reliability. Says something about a 1911 built to ordnance spec.

rich2u
April 3, 2004, 09:53 AM
Isn't Colt back in receirvership again? Thats what the talking head at the local gunshop here in town said. I was just down at MC sporting goods fondling their selection of goodies & they had a used Python for sale & the salesman said he can't get new Colts anymore. Anyone no anymore for sure...

Lobotomy Boy
April 3, 2004, 10:29 AM
Isn't Colt sort of like Moto Guzzi in that it is always in some degree of receivership?

I can't see things turning out well for Colt. I think the company went down the path towards oblivion when it started putting all its financial eggs in the Armalite 15 basket. For the past 45 years the company has only done minimal R&D on someone else's design. They have done very little development on their other products. That's groovy as long as they can turn a profit on the M16-M4, but sooner or later that gun is going to be made obsolete. It may not happen just yet, but eventually someone is going to design a military rifle/carbine that is so obviously superior that the M16/M4 will go the way of the M1 Garand and M14. To say that the M16 will never be replaced is like saying that the old Commadore is the pinnacle of computer development or that there has never been a finer automobile than the 1973 Caprice Classic or that smokeless powder is just a fad or that... well, you get my point. Some company will develop a better gun as certainly as computers will get faster and television images will get sharper, and when it does, Colt will cease to exist.

Jim PHL
April 3, 2004, 11:20 AM
If you're looking for a good range gun, all-around'er, buy the Colt. When I bought my first 1911, I wanted the bells and whistles (Ambi-Safeties, nice wood grips, Novak sites, etc.) and got them with a Springfield Loaded Model for about the same price as a basic Colt. If I were looking right now for a basic model to either keep stock or build on, I'd go with the Pony.

Echo Mike might be right:

"And remember... if you buy the Colt, you MAY want to buy the Springfield / CD later. If you buy the Springfield/ CD, you WILL want the Colt.

Get it out of the way now.

S."

hansolo
April 3, 2004, 12:55 PM
"...Buy the Colt NOW, and you may want a SA/C.D. later........"

I admit to wanting the "extras" that make the C.D. semi-appealing, and the abundance of SA Milspecs with it's lower price.......but, I've had range-time with two of my friends' Colts and,...well...it's a COLT! I'm headin' out to the local gun shops to see how many STOCK the NRM, and what kind of price gouging they're up to :scrutiny:

P.S. Sean: great review @ 1911 Forum!

jimmy
April 3, 2004, 01:51 PM
Personally, I think the best gun for the least money on the 1911 market today is the parked Springfield Armory WWII Mil-Spec. Good trigger, tight fit, overall solid, excellent quality--all for plus or minus $400.

That said, the gold standard for the 1911 will always have the Colt horse on it, and although IMHO Colt's quality control is not what it should be, I'll go for a Colt over a 1911 from another manufacturer whenever I can find one (which is not often) and can afford the price (also not often).

YMMV.

unitman
April 3, 2004, 02:37 PM
I bought a new Colt NRM Combat Commander last January and have been very pleased with it. The fit and finish are excellent. So far it has been absolutely reliable and its accuracy is as good as or slightly better than that of my SIG P225, which is saying something. Colt makes great 1911s these days and I look forward to buying a Colt Government model next.

jercamp45
April 3, 2004, 05:46 PM
Once I almost bought a Springfield 'loaded' in slightly used condition, but I had a inherited series 70 stock Colt Government in my possession. So I invested my money at the time in Wilson parts and a trip to a gunsmith to fit 'em on the Colt. Could not be happier, my Colt has a sentimental attachment regarding its past history and has been carried on duty and in interesting cercumstances since...adding to its continued history.
I have never own a Springfield, though I have shot many(the Longslide was real cool!), but I have own ALOT of Colt 1911's over the years and I tend to stick with them. Besides the Government, a LW Officer's has seen much use and been carried all over the Country and I recently added a slightly used Colt Concealed Carry Officer's to the stable. This new(to me) Colt requires no modification or customization...a first for me in my history with Colt 1911's.
Colt has made alot of improvement, but it probably comes far too late. They should have been upgrading their 1911 line in the 70's with the IPSC crowd requirements. That might have kept them on the top. They could have also be doing more to streamlining their manufacturing process and working on their many revolver's. Shame they lost their 'new service' machines just before the 'magnum' craze stormed the country.
So, Colt might be a very useful firearms and one of the best made for the money, AND you are getting a large slice of American history, BUT if Colt folds one day...you'll also have more than you invested...a working heirloom!! Get 'em while you can, they are at the pinnacle of their manufacture right now(though those 1930's guns were sweet for their time!)!!!
Jercamp45

liliysdad
April 3, 2004, 08:51 PM
I am going to stray here from thenorm. I think Colts are overpriuced, and you are buying a name. Before the Series 80 guns, I would say get the Colt, but there is no way Id ever buy any series 80 gun, including the new Kimbers.

I have handled and shot many new production Colts, and cant tell any benefit to spending the cash over a Springfield or Kimber, personally. Yeah, I can already here the MIM freaks racing to light the magic Colt flame, but it simply doesnt fly with me.

Black Majik
April 3, 2004, 09:58 PM
You all should know my answer.

GO COLT! :D


Fit and finish surpasses the SA milspec. The milspec does shoot straight and nicely, but the Colt jus' shoots more refined than the milspec. Nice rosewood grips and beautiful matte blue finish, what's not to like :D

Blah blah blah, I can go on for a while. But it comes down to strolling down to the gunshop and fondling both. I'll predict you'll fondle the Colt longer. ;)

NRM Colt takes my vote. (as usual)

hansolo
April 4, 2004, 01:26 AM
I thank y'all for chiming in on my "Buy Colt?" post; I don't want to hit the local shops until I get my strategy down....Do I want stainless or blued?...What is the upper limit I'll pay?...I may end up doing the On-Line gun auction thing...I'm set on the NRM Colt -- I think I already was, but needed your "majority vote".....I have a buddy with two Colts from the 70s: one stainless Commander and one Gov. blued...he wouldn't consider selling either, but is glad that "I have come to my senses"(!)

Thanks for your input...

Frenchy
April 4, 2004, 04:53 AM
I purchased a slightly used Colt 1991A1 Commander yesterday, and although I haven't fired it yet, the fit and finish is excellent.

Nightcrawler
April 4, 2004, 06:31 AM
I love mine. Paid about $615 for it out the door (with taxes and fees), but prices are high in my area anyway. Hasn't jammed on me yet.

shoobe01
April 4, 2004, 09:56 AM
I have been happy with my Springfield in every way, but the 60-70 others that I shoot with all will suggest Kimber without fail. Large range of guns that lack nothing in fit and finish. Look for those first. Unless you can afford Wilson or something semi-custom, of course.

Lobotomy Boy
April 4, 2004, 12:45 PM
I've been considering getting a 1911 for about a year, and at first I was impressed with the Kimbers. They have the silkiest triggers I have ever dry fired. But while researching the purchase of a 1911 I've discovered that roughly four out of every five people who post about problems with 1911s are having problems with Kimbers. (Please note that these are not hard statistics but simply my own interpretations of anectdotal evidence. I have been known to exaggerate, misinterpret, spew bull feces, and be just plain wrong on numerous occasions.)

Perhaps that's because Kimber sells four or five times as many 1911s as anyone else, but there seems to be a trend towards more quality control issues with recent Kimbers. Besides, there are about as many people posting about positive experiences with SA 1911s as there are posting about problems with Kimbers. Far fewer people post about buying Colts, but most of those who do seem more satisfied than Kimber owners.

From my own research, I suspect that when I eventually do join the cult of the 1911 ("One of us! One of us! One of us!"), I'll be getting either an SA, Colt, or Norinco.

XavierBreath
April 4, 2004, 06:49 PM
I own two Springers, and one of them was my first 1911. That first Springfield 1911 recieved a lot of TLC and a fair amount of customization. It's a great shooter. It's reliable. It's a good looking pistol. It's not a Colt though.
I concur that if you buy a Springfield, sooner or later you WILL want a Colt.
Springfield makes a good 1911.
Colt makes a Colt 1911.

Are they that much better? It's really debatable. The difference is how you feel everytime you hold, shoot, clean and show the pistol to someone.

My last two 1911s were Colts, and I've passed on several K gun deals, passed on two Springer deals, and one P gun deal, waiting for the next Pony deal to come along. There is a mystique about that pony!

Denmark116
April 4, 2004, 06:58 PM
I think that the quality control at Colt has slipped in the past few years... They depend more on the special run guns then the down in the trenches shooters.... When I am at local ranges and shops people talk bad about the new colt's and some wait along time for a decent used one to come in (made back when Colt was everything that people would like to think that it still is)...

I think that the Springfields and the Dan Wessons of the world are putting more into their guns... they have top notch quality and customer service...

In my opinon go for the Springfield loaded if you have the scratch or go for the Dan Wesson if you want certain features on a budget...

I will now back away.... Get my flame suit on.... and wait for the storm...

Remember this is my opinion and we all have them...

Denmark.

10-Ring
April 4, 2004, 07:01 PM
Go w/ the Colt, if that's what excites you! Y compromise?

hansolo
April 4, 2004, 07:27 PM
"...paid about $615.00 OTD..." Here in the PRK, I have a feeling it would be a tich more....

"....my friends would say "get a Kimber...." And I have fired the Eclipse II and, hey, I could be happy with that....I've fired SA's that I really liked, also.

There are just too many choices for a "waffler" like me! ......so, I'm getting the Colt: that's my story and I'm sticking to it.......for now.:cuss:

Warner
April 4, 2004, 09:58 PM
Put that Colt in your hands and get "the feeling". You owe that to yourself. There's good reasons for that feeling, and don't be unduly influenced by overly slick advertisements (Kimber) or even cheaper initial prices (Springfield).

Jammer Six
April 4, 2004, 11:07 PM
What's a "Springfield/CD"?

Lobotomy Boy
April 5, 2004, 12:33 AM
That would be the Springfield Cross Dresser, which is SA's answer to the Lady Smith series, except that it is worn IWB by males.

Longbow
April 5, 2004, 12:52 AM
I was just at the range, and they received a call from one of their distributors who said that Colt workers went on strike today.

Isn't this the reason why their quality came down the drain in the 80's and 90's? ' better get the good ones available now, before the crappy ones start hitting the shelves again. :D

BluesBear
April 5, 2004, 09:58 AM
What's a "Springfield/CD"?
Springfield/Charles Daly

In reference to the original question in this threadIs the Colt 1991 NRM that much better than the SA Milspec and Charles Daly for a Fun Gun?

dandean316
April 5, 2004, 10:13 AM
Get the Colt.

After going through my hi-cap phase, my night site phase, my double action trigger phase, and on and on, I've settled right back where I started: single action, American made 1911's.

So don't waste your time like I did, just get the Colt.

Trigger
April 5, 2004, 10:46 AM
I own both. Colt and Springfield. I like the Colts (NRM) and they are a significant improvement over the Old Roll Marked models. However, some things that I dislike about Colt,

Frame-slide rear doesn't match up really well (addressed after being sent back.)
Poor fitting on thumbsafety causing frame rubbing.
Series 80 action (though proven, I'm still not a big fan of it.)
Long heavy trigger.


The milspec springfield tend to be better fit and well finished with much better trigger action. I prefer the parkerized finish and they are a series 70 action. Things I don't like are:
Old models have blocky frames, since recontoured.
Slightly more MIM'd parts.


Overall, I would say that you need to compare a milspec SA ve. NRM O1991.

I'd give the nod to Springfield. But they are very close and you can't go wrong with either.

hansolo
April 5, 2004, 01:41 PM
"......Colt's on lockout....." This is another consideration: if they start outsourcing the product to, say, China, the 'last of the GOOD ones' could hold a special patriotic value(like they don't already).

Re: comment on Springfield....funny!

What to do, my Precious? Forget the 1911s and buy a dozen Hi-Points.......... :evil:

CZ52GUY
April 5, 2004, 11:57 PM
A happy Springer owner vote...especially as a range gun.

Good luck,

CZ52'

BigG
April 6, 2004, 11:02 AM
Although I haven't boughten any NRM Colts, my examination of them indicates they compare to the more expensive old Government Model rather than the old 1991. The old Government Model cost about $700, new. The NRM is in the $4 - 500 area. It is a steal, imho.

hansolo
April 6, 2004, 01:56 PM
I finally got out yesterday to fondle some 1911's: to save gas, I call a dealer 40 miles away. I asked if he carried the Colt NRM. This fellow says, "...Colt doesn't sell to the civilian market anymore." So.......I tell him I see a lot of Colt 1991s on the internet auctions. He says, "They can't legally sell to civilians." and HANGS-UP on me!!!!!! O.K.: I go to a shop where I bought a CZ 75B two years ago...clerk says there is a 3-5 month wait on a new Colt, but they DO sell to the civilian market. While there, I ask to see a SA Milspec: it's nicer than I remembered.......

BTW, they were asking $600.00 for the parkerized Milspec.......

Frenchy
April 6, 2004, 02:07 PM
I finally got out yesterday to fondle some 1911's: to save gas, I call a dealer 40 miles away. I asked if he carried the Colt NRM. This fellow says, "...Colt doesn't sell to the civilian market anymore." So.......I tell him I see a lot of Colt 1991s on the internet auctions. He says, "They can't legally sell to civilians." and HANGS-UP on me!!!!!!

An occasional refreshing of the "Gene Pool" would be appropriate here! :rolleyes:

cracked butt
April 6, 2004, 05:31 PM
I'm pretty new to the 1911 game, but when I looked long and hard for my first 1911, I took a look at Springfield, Kimber, and Colt.

To me it finally came down to a springfield or Kimber. The Colts were plain jane and didn't really stand out. For the features (or lack there of) in comparison to the other brands, the price seemed way off. I ended up with a springfield, as they were a bit cheaper than a similar kimber, and alot less "pimpish".:D

Brand names and prancing ponies on the slide are not something I buy into, though others see things different.

Longbow
April 6, 2004, 06:11 PM
BTW, they were asking $600.00 for the parkerized Milspec.......
Ouch! :(
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I finally got out yesterday to fondle some 1911's: to save gas, I call a dealer 40 miles away. I asked if he carried the Colt NRM. This fellow says, "...Colt doesn't sell to the civilian market anymore." So.......I tell him I see a lot of Colt 1991s on the internet auctions. He says, "They can't legally sell to civilians." and HANGS-UP on me!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An occasional refreshing of the "Gene Pool" would be appropriate here![/quote]
I agree! That's rude. ' hope you find another dealer.:mad:

Rob96
April 6, 2004, 07:10 PM
BTW, they were asking $600.00 for the parkerized Milspec.......



OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

i PAID $609 FOR MY STAINLESS nrm cOLT 1991a1.

hansolo
April 6, 2004, 09:49 PM
Yep: the SA Milspec G.I. price is nearly double the national average in this Valley of the Idiots, a gunshop employee outright lies about Colts not being available to non-LEO/Military market........no wonder Sonny Bono ran into a tree. Oh, I forgot: the shop with the $600.00 Milspec has a Systema in the case that looks like they salvaged it from the Titanic and dragged it on the freeway....Price? $459.00:what:

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