12 gauge slug vs windshield?

[Tropical Z]

I could try it someday on a junk car,but a friend of mine and i are disagreeing on the effectiveness of a 12 gauge rifled slug on a car or truck windshield.I say that babies gonna blast right through like a hot knife through butter,and he says that because of its large frontal area the slug is more likely to deflect off of the windshield without penetration.We settled on 20 yards as the distance.What do you think?

[ChristopherG]

I'll put my money on the slug. Who's gonna take the glass?

[MrAcheson]

What angle are you shooting the slug at? Straight on it will go through. At a sharp angle it might not.

[HS/LD]

Lets get this right...

Your friend says that a 1 oz .72 caliber piece of lead travelling at about 1800 fps is gonna "bounce" off a windshield?

How much money are you going to take from him?

BTW Tried it already. Went through the windshield through the seat back of the front seat, and disappeared into the rear seat and probably trunk.

I suppose if the angle was EXTREME enough the windshield might deflect it. In fact the windshield will deflect any round is the angle is extreme enough.

Actually I found this on another forum and will paste it here for interests sake:

MEDIUM SHOTS:
This a document summarizing some testing one of my instructors did back in 1999. I found it quite interesting. We haven't had the time to demonstrate this to the officers, but your message will stimulate me to try again to work it in. We had to settle on just sending out an e-mail. Most of the time you can get someone to donate a wrecked vehicle to fire rescue and then they can dismantle it after you shoot it up. Another instructor and I are planning on testing various agricultural crops as cover, i.e. corn etc. and see how many rows it would take to deflect or stop bullets. We are just going to set up a piece of plywood and shoot at it at various distances. That may be the only thing we may have for concealment out here in the
prairie. I would suggest testing anything you can get your hands on!!
Regards to all,
Floyd Demaray
South Dakota
To: GFP-CONSERVATION OFFICERS
Subject: Ammunition effectiveness test against vehicles
To all Conservation Officers:
I was lucky enough to be part of some training recently that may help you if you are involved in any shooting situation around vehicles.
While we did not have the resources to test all possible ammunition against all possible vehicle types I still think this information could save your life or a citizen we are sworn to protect.
The Yankton Police Department ask me to help test their duty ammunition (including service handgun .40 cal S&W, shotgun buckshot & slugs, M-16 Military/civilian loads, .308 cal rifle duty loads) against a vehicle placed on the Yankton range at felony stop distances up to point blank range less than 3 ft.
The vehicle was a four door Chevy Malibu with all the glass and body intact. We placed targets inside of the vehicle with 2 pieces of 3/4 inch Blandex/plywood behind them. We then engaged these targets from various distances through the intact windows/doors.
The following is a list of our results. All test were done with both YPD and SD GFP duty and practice ammo.
I. Handgun ammunition both duty and practice.

A. Vehicle glass front/rear and side windows.

1. Distance of less than 3 ft. (simulates routine stop gone bad)
ALL HANDGUN ROUNDS PASSED THROUGH THE VEHICLE GLASS, BUT *FAILED* TO PENETRATE EVEN THE FIRST PIECE OF PLYWOOD!!!!!!

2. All targets were hit unless protected by anything else in the car i.e. seat etc. stopped all rounds after impact with windows.
B. All metal body parts/side doors/door post/fender etc.

ALL HANDGUN ROUNDS FAILED TO ENTER THE INTO THE VEHICLES INTERIOR – REPEAT – *NO* HITS ON ANY TARGETS!

II. Buckshot at felony stop distance.

A. Glass -- Hit targets and penetrated both sheets of plywood but stopped by the seats.

B. Metal -- FAILED TO PENETRATE INTO THE INTERIOR -- NO HITS ON TARGETS

III. Slugs at felony stop distance.

Metal -- Rounds went through first door/target/plywood/second door and stuck in a railroad tie five yards from the vehicle (The 1 oz slug weighed 9/10ths oz for 90% ret weight).

IV. M-16 at felony stop distance.

Metal -- Through 1st door/target/plywood/interior of second door, stopped inside of second door.
V. .308 at felony stop distance.

Same as M-16 except on round stopped by a cross member in door.
Conclusions:
Draw your own conclusions but here are mine for what they are worth.
Your service handgun with duty ammo will likely fail to hit a threat in a vehicle if it encounters anything but the vehicle glass or anything after hitting the vehicle glass (the shooting up by Chamberlain year or two back also confirmed this).

Your handgun should not be counted on to penetrate vehicle doors or seats
inside of a vehicle and then to stop a threat.
Your duty shotgun with buckshot will penetrate better through glass at these ranges but fairs no better after encountering anything else inside the vehicle.

Your shotgun loaded with buckshot should not be counted on to penetrate vehicle doors or seats and then to stop a threat.
Your shotgun with slugs stand the best chance to penetrate a vehicle, But may over penetrate a cause some risk to a bystanders or others in a vehicle.

Your rifles should defeat most vehicle doors/windows etc. but still run a *risk* of over penetration if someone else is in the vehicle or out side of it depending on the angles.
ALL ROUNDS SHOWED VARIOUS DEGREES OF DEFLECTION AFTER STRIKING WINDOW GLASS AND METAL PARTS OF VEHICLES.
THE DEFLECTION VARIED WITH THE ANGLE AND DISTANCE THE ROUND WAS FIRED FROM.
In THE CASE OF A STOP GONE BAD, CLOSE RANGE!!
HAVE A PLAN BEFORE, YOUR ARE IN A SHOOTING SITUATION AROUND A VEHICLE!!!
KNOW YOUR WEAPONS AND WHAT THE AMMUNITION YOU ARE CARRYING IN THEM AND ITS LIMITATIONS!!!
BE PREPARED TO FIGHT YOUR WAY BACK TO YOUR VEHICLE AND TRANSITION TO A LONG GUN WITH SLUGS OR RIFLE IF YOUR HANDGUN OR SHOT GUN WITH BUCKSHOT FAIL TO STOP THE THREAT.
FELONY STOP DISTANCES
HAVE A PLAN BEFORE YOU MAKE THE STOP!!!! CONSIDER USING YOUR SHOTGUN OR RIFLE AS YOUR PRIMARY WEAPON SYSTEM . KNOW THE POSSIBLE LIMITATIONS AND POSSIBLE RISKS INVOLVED WITH THE AMMUNITION AND WEAPON YOU ARE USING.
Hopefully we will never have to use deadly force to protect ourselves or others, but if you do remember one rule,
THE PURPOSE OF FIGHTING IS TO WIN
F. D.
South Dakota



Regards,

HS/LD

[Tropical Z]

My scenario would involve a car coming straight at you while you stand on the ground.

[HS/LD]

Then it would go through.

Just remember to wait until you see the whites of the drivers eyes! :D

HS/LD

[Dave McCracken]

In the distant past I shot a few junked vehicles with Brennekes, 30-06 steel core AP, and various and sundry buck loads.

The Brennekes went through both window glasses on a side to side shot. Penetrated the windshield on shots where the slug impacted 90 degrees to the glass, but a few degrees off left a channel on one shot that did go through but at a funny angle.

Buck varied widely on safety glass, and there was a frag hazard, Be careful!!

If I have to shoot through a windshield, I'd rather do it with AP 30-06, or its home made equivalent in 30-30. Those shots went through everything but the engine block.

[alkiburki]

I have personally fired at a car windshield three times with a .357 and had the bullets glance off due to the angle. Speer 158 grain JHP, full power loads, range of approximately 20 feet. I would say that most of the time, the slug will win the encounter easily, but depending on the angle, the slug could lose the battle. Especially on some of the newer aerodynamically styled vehicles with extremely sloping front glass. A sharply shouldered slug such as a Brenneke I would guess to be less prone to deflection with the steeper angles, as compared to a traditional "pumpkin ball" type slug.

[labgrade]

"Just remember to wait until you see the whites of the drivers eyes!"

& don't forget to jump out of the way! ;)

Windshield angles vary - from 90 to perhaps high-30s degrees.

Consider that even water will defelect/cause a skipper.

Never done any front-on shots with anything, but would bet on the slug all told - especially the second one. Aim a bit lower than you'd expect. I'd put 'em just over the dash.

[cratz2]

That is a lot of variables... shooting a car in general, not just TZ's scenairo. Also, year and make of vehicle would play a factor as would windshield angle.

For a shotgun, I'd have to think that short of an extreme angle, a lead slug would hold up pretty well as others have said. For reasonable handguns, I think I'd try my chances with a Glock 20 and full capacity magazines. ;)

[Tom C.]

On a car windshield, performance of slugs can be expected to vary with circumstances and ammo. Foster slugs tend to be soft. They can break up and fail to penetrate on high deflection shots. Breneke slugs are harder lead, and that plus the flatter nose should increase the likelihood of penetration. Keep in mind, windshield glass is laminated and pretty tough. Side glass is one layer and intended to breakup.
If I have to take on a person in a car, I would prefer my M-1 Garand with M-2 ball or AP.

[Tropical Z]

I'm not sure why,but the only rifled slugs i buy are Winchesters Super X 12 GA hollowpoint,2 3/4" 1oz slugs travelling at 1600 FPS.