Uberti .31 pocket revolvers.


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mec
March 19, 2014, 06:56 PM
I posted this earlier and am puzzled about why it was deleted. I am going to try it once more.
The Pocket model is interesting because it was the largest selling colt percussion revolver and actually was the most manufactured up into the 20th centurh (circa 325,000) The replicas are the least likely to emerge functional from the box. My leverless "Wells Fargo" required only minor modification to become reliable but the new 49 was frozen up out of the box due to failure to fit the hand. That remedied, it was non functional because of hammer blow-back and cap fragment jams. The main spring was far thinnner and weaker than on earlier models so, I put one of my older spares on top of the stock one and solved that problem. I am going to cut this short and see what happened. My earlier post had four pictures uploaded and I wonder if that might have offended someone and provoked removal.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196318&stc=1&d=1395269664

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196319&stc=1&d=1395269671

Group on target was five rounds each from 10 and 15 yard. All but the last round fired from one hand. The bullets are from an original colt patent mould

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mec
March 19, 2014, 07:00 PM
The "Wells Fargo" is not a great deal more difficult to load that the 49. I recessed and coned the end of the arbor as with the originals to serve as a bullet seater. Same thing with the bullet seater on th 49
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196320&stc=1&d=1395269962

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196321&stc=1&d=1395269962

Gaucho Gringo
March 19, 2014, 08:46 PM
I was working on my 1849 today trying to remedy the short arbor syndrome. I used brass shims to get the arbor length right. Before when I tapped the wedge near flush on the right side of the barrel it would bind the cylinder. Thanks to all the knowledgeable folks posting on the forum, I now have that problem solved. The cylinder locks up tight in the firing position and now does not bind when trying to rotate. My six shot Howell conversion cylinder still needs some fitting to make it right. The cylinder revolves and locks up without any problem, but when I try to rotate the cylinder by hand when at full cock, I can move it forward to the next stop and beyond. It takes a little force to do so. The alignment of the cylinder is good when at full cock and I doubt it would move when firing my mousefart BP loads in this gun but I still like to have things right. This tells me the bolt is not fully seated in the cylinder stop. I hate to do anything to the bolt because on the percussion cylinder the lockup is tight. So how do approach fitting the cartridge conversion cylinder without screwing up the percussion cylinder's lockup?

SleazyRider
March 19, 2014, 08:47 PM
Been hankerin' for a '49 Uberti pocket for quite some time. Seems that it's one model that Cabela's never has on sale.

72coupe
March 19, 2014, 08:48 PM
I like those. I don't know what could have happened to your other thread.

I had a pocket back in 1968 and it was a shooter right out of the box. And it is a good thing because I probably couldn't have fixed it back in those days.

Crawdad1
March 19, 2014, 09:42 PM
Beautiful revolvers Mec, shooters too!!


But, why oh why only one stickin barrel length offered. :cuss:

Come on Uberti you make the frame size correct, give us more barrel options. :fire:

Skinny 1950
March 20, 2014, 03:37 AM
In Canada the Uberti 1849 is prohibited because the 4 inch barrel is less than the 4.25 inch minimum, I had to settle for an Armi San Marco '49 with a 5 inch barrel but it has the same problem with the arbor/wedge fit, rather than try to fix it I just tap the wedge in until just right and it stays there.
Here is a picture of the ASM '49 with my Colt (2nd Gen.) '51, the display is in Feet/Second for the '49.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Skinny1950/Colt1851andBabyDragoon003.jpg (http://s989.photobucket.com/user/Skinny1950/media/Colt1851andBabyDragoon003.jpg.html)

stressed
March 20, 2014, 03:44 AM
That wells fargo would make do good with a conversion cylinder

Smokin'Joe
March 20, 2014, 10:35 AM
My simple loading press allows me to load my ASM Wells Fargo with ease.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc510/SmmokingJoe/IMG_0027-1_zpsc9e90cf3.jpg

Smokin'Joe
March 20, 2014, 11:26 AM
A simple yet effective fix for the short arbor is a small brass nut. (Size 8x32 I think but Iím too busy preparing my taxes to go check. But thatís a whole other topic.) Round off the corners of the nut so that it makes a snug fit in the arbor hole in the barrel. Insert the nut and assemble the barrel to the frame. The nut/shim will be too thick and you can measure by how much. Remove the nut/shim with a screw of the proper size and reduce the thickness with a file, stone, etc. The barrel/cylinder gap will now remain constant.

CORRECTION:

My arbor shim was made from a 6x32 nut.

kBob
March 20, 2014, 11:27 AM
I know we talked about it before, bit could you give us an parts list and how too DIY build and use instructions for that cylinder loader?

Lot of new folks in the last year and half or so.....


-kBob

Smokin'Joe
March 20, 2014, 11:56 AM
kbob,
Take a look at my original loader that I use for my 1860 (Post #17):

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7121933#post7121933

The Wells Fargo loader is just an updated version of that one. As you can see I start with a bolt that can pass through the cylinder and is long enough work properly. I think I used a 5/16 x 3" bolt. (Too busy to check now. Preparing my taxes!!!!) You need a cushion to protect the cylinder ratchet. I used wood on the 1860 press and plastic plumbing for the Wells Fargo. Use whatever works. A nut to fit the bolt and a couple of washers are also needed. The 5 ball plungers on the Wells Fargo press are Allen head screws threaded into the top washer. Make sure plungers are smaller than the chamber holes. If I were to do it again I would try to make plungers out of something softer, maybe brass or even wooden dowel.

The only real trick is positioning the 5 plungers properly. I removed the nipples from the cylinder, attached the top washer to the cylinder with the bolt and nut and marked the hole locations with a long sharp scribe through the nipple hole. Drill and tap the holes and install the plungers. Trimming off excess length of the screws finishes the project.

desidog
March 20, 2014, 12:16 PM
I recently acquired a 6" bbl 1848, "made in Italy" on the left side of the barrel, with "PN" and "XXV" on the right side of the frame. I know it isn't Uberti, but beyond that, i don't know the maker.

It seems to have a damaged/partially broken hammer spring. Are the various 1848/49's from Italy close enough that i could get a hammer spring from a Uberti or ASM and it would fit (with minor filing..)?

..and now after reading this I need to go study the arbor and cylinder to see what needs to be done there...

Smokin'Joe
March 20, 2014, 04:32 PM
I've had success getting mainsprings from Dixie Gun Works. DGW Part# TP1565 is described as being made for full sized Colt cap and ball revolvers but works well in my Wells Fargo model. Be aware, however, this spring is not a drop in replacement. It's too long and will require hand fitting but it can be done. I did it!

BTW, DGW lists a mainspring that is supposed to fit both the Baby Dragoon and the Wells Fargo (Part# TP1601). This mainspring does not fit anything I own, either a full size or a smaller Colt. Not sure what it does fit.

Smokin'Joe
March 20, 2014, 04:40 PM
Sorry, this was a duplicate post. Moderator please delete.

mec
March 24, 2014, 05:55 PM
Just got my own vintage colt patent mould. There were several of these on e-bay and bidding was brisk. This one throws very well-fille bullets and balls and they seem to fit the Uberti chambers just like the ones somebody ran for me from a similar mould.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196535&stc=1&d=1395698064

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196536&stc=1&d=1395698066

mec
March 27, 2014, 12:39 PM
With Remington pocket model from Pietta. It is a smoot shooter but one chamber requires a double strike consistently. I haven't figured out if one of the cones is short or the chamber is countersunk deep. Fixable in either case as the uberti-49 cones have the same thread and can be shortened.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196659&stc=1&d=1395938260

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=196660&stc=1&d=1395938262

John C
March 27, 2014, 10:30 PM
Mike;

I'm a big fan of your work, I bought your book and really enjoyed it.

What are your opinions on the relative merits of the Uberti Colt and Remington .31 revolvers? I've been interested in picking one up for a while now.

I prefer Remingtons over Colts because of the closed frame, but the .31 Wells Fargo just seems slick.

Thanks,

-John

mec
March 28, 2014, 04:42 AM
It's a matter of luck with out of the box function. We've come across copies of both that work right out of the box as well as those that have to be finished to work correctly . The Uberti pocket models seem particularly subject to haphazard assembly and failure to tune the action at the factory though reading reviews, it appears that a fair number of them actually do arrive functional. I don't have much experience with the tiny Remingtons. This one came out of the box smooth and ready to shoot. The loading lever is prone to break if you try to compress a powder charge and one of my chambers regularly misfires either because of a short nipple or a deep counterbore so, you can tell I haven't done much work with this one yet.

whughett
April 1, 2014, 10:21 AM
Mec: Regarding your comment of "out of the box function" I posted a thread on a 1862 police by Uberti about hammer blow back. In addition to that one chamber would not fire until I backed the nipple out a 1/2 turn. In addition, the barrel stud for retaining the loading lever flew off and was lost. Pretty shoddy work for a company I thought was better than Pietta. Somewhere in the future is a .31 cal maybe I should look for an older one by Uberti or go with a Pietta.

mec
April 1, 2014, 10:41 AM
We are probably lucky that they can be made to work at all since the people assembling them don't have a clue. The loading lever seat often tends to walk out of the dovetail. Stakng it in place doens't really work so I've been using a small amount of J&B Weld or other two-step adhesive. Same with the pegs that align the barrel assembly with the frame. There's nothing really holding them in the holes.
The best thing that can be said for the revolvers produced in the last several years is that the chamber and bbl dimensions seem to be consistently good, The locking bolt usually drops in the lead to the cylinder slots and the trigger-bolt springs less likely to snap in two than was previously the case.

Backing the nipple out as you describe does seem to work very well and double stacking mainsprings worked on the hammer blowback for me. Of course it wouldn't work with the paterson and walker-type springs. the cocking effort with the new factory spring coupled with the spare feels about right and hopefully not a set up for early parts failure. I had to relieve the onepiece grip behind the mainspring screw to accomidate the additional thickness. My older replacement springs did require reduction in length to fit the pocket model. I don't know why Uberti has gone to flimsy mainsprings as it really does compromise ignition - particularly with cci caps. I did try tresco nipples and they had no effect at all on the hammer blow-back.

whughett
April 1, 2014, 02:59 PM
Well I have to order a new barrel stud so may as well add a spring. The barrel retaining pins on this 1862 police are not round pins. They seem to be 1/2 square studs that are milled from the front of the frame with the tops rounded to match the water table. Breaking one would mean replacing the frame I suppose. The cylinder and bolt however lock up like a bank vault, no slop whatsoever.


The studs are convex on top and rounded on bottom side leading edges, sorta a 1/2 round stud in a round hole.

Off thread my apologies.

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