45 ACP Action Pistol: 700X or Clays?


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abq87120
March 19, 2014, 11:51 PM
I have both the Lee Modern Reloading book and the Lyman Reloading Handbook #49. I'm taking the path of hot powders with heavy bullets. These two powders appear as numbers 7 & 8 in the burn rate charts and are popular with many .45 ACP IDPA and USPSA shooters. As near as I can calculate, a 230gr Precision Delta FMJ bullet over 3.9gr of Clays or 4.0gr of 700X will get me over the 165 power factor.

Have you tried both? Which one do you use?

I have a brand new Sig 1911 Stainless with a 5" barrel. I haven't even shot it yet. I'm looking forward to chunking some WWB downrange Friday though.

Dan in ABQ

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Steven57
March 20, 2014, 12:38 AM
I haven't shot my loads, yet, but used Clays And 700-X. Gave me a spread from about 700-900 fps with 230gr LRN. Waiting on the rain to try in my Ruger 1911.

ArchAngelCD
March 20, 2014, 12:58 AM
I have both the Lee Modern Reloading book and the Lyman Reloading Handbook #49. I'm taking the path of hot powders with heavy bullets. These two powders appear as numbers 7 & 8 in the burn rate charts and are popular with many .45 ACP IDPA and USPSA shooters. As near as I can calculate, a 230gr Precision Delta FMJ bullet over 3.9gr of Clays or 4.0gr of 700X will get me over the 165 power factor.

Have you tried both? Which one do you use?

I have a brand new Sig 1911 Stainless with a 5" barrel. I haven't even shot it yet. I'm looking forward to chunking some WWB downrange Friday though.

Dan in ABQ
I'm sorry but i don't know what you mean by "hot powder". Both those powders are very fast powders and pressures will exceed limits well before you reach velocities delivered by slower powders.

In any event, I would use Clays over 700x any day since clays meters better and it's cleaner.

TfflHndn
March 20, 2014, 01:09 AM
I've used both. Each works well enough, but 700x meters poorly. I would buy Clay's again, but not 700x. I prefer Red Dot over both, but would use BE or TG over all three of those in the same burn rate neighborhood.

rockhopper46038
March 20, 2014, 07:48 AM
I like Clays for .45ACP. I'd have to check my notes, but I think 3.9 grains as 1.250 OAL would be a bit light for Major. 3.8 is my "light" range load for Steel Challenge at my local range (no power factor required). 4.0 grains is still a very manageable load and I believe may make Major.

Rico567
March 20, 2014, 08:20 AM
I really like Clays in .45 ACP, but with a 230 gr. bullet, the charge range is very narrow. The max with this combination is usually considered 4.0 gr., and in a particular gun, this could be borderline in making Major. With the 230 gr., I generally load Titegroup, with Clays reserved for the lighter weight bullets.

Walkalong
March 20, 2014, 08:32 AM
Either will work.

700X is more forgiving on the top end, and while it meters poorly it shoots well. Clays meters well and shoots well. Both are clean unless downloaded too much.

FROGO207
March 20, 2014, 10:52 AM
3.8 grains of 700X is my go to load for 230 grain lead bullets. 4.0 for 230 FMJ bullets. 700X does meter a bit on the poor side but when you have several kegs of it on hand it is no big deal.:) I just made a custom scoop from a 45 brass and filled it with epoxy to get the load I wanted. It is just as fast as a measure with the funnel mounted to a shelf on the bench and one hand scooping propellant and the other positioning the brass under the funnel. YMMV

NWcityguy2
March 20, 2014, 11:50 AM
Clays, Ramshot Competition, Winchester WST. All are good choices for a major PF load. 3.9 grains of Clays easily makes power factor.

abq87120
March 26, 2014, 11:29 PM
Sell, a friend had gave me some Clays and I reserved a pound of 700X at the LGS. I'll try both and let you know how it goes.

Lennyjoe
March 27, 2014, 01:19 AM
Clays may be hard to find for a while.

abq87120
March 27, 2014, 09:17 PM
My friend gave me a couple of pounds of the Clays. He shoots lead and I guess it was too hot for his loads.

ArchAngelCD
March 27, 2014, 09:22 PM
My friend gave me a couple of pounds of the Clays. He shoots lead and I guess it was too hot for his loads.
I still don't know what you mean by "hot", please explain???

Clays works very well in several handgun cartridges and with lead bullets.

jmorris
March 27, 2014, 09:31 PM
I have used 3.7gr of Clays with a 230gr Precision (not delta) @ 1.230" with quite a bit of success.

abq87120
March 28, 2014, 11:23 AM
By "hot", I mean a fast burn rate.

I'm picking a pound of 700X today. I guess I'll try both that and the Clays. The last time I loaded 800X (for my 40's), my Powder Cop showed that my drop wasn't as consistent as I had previously believed. Wish me luck with the 700X, lol. I'm glad I have a five-station press.

ArchAngelCD
March 29, 2014, 02:59 PM
According to Hodgdon 700X is only SLIGHTLY slower than clays so if faced with using one or the other I would pick clays because it meters better than 700X. I have used Clays in the 45 auto and it produces clean accurate 45 Auto ammo. My main powder for the 45 Auto is W231/HP-38 because it's also clean and accurate but meters like water. IMO that powder was created for the .38 Special and 45 Auto!

Also IMO, fast powders are not considered hot powders. I also feel slower powders work better for heavy bullets in most situations but not all of course. Reloaders get just as good results with Bullseye as they do with Unique and both powders are very different. Don't choose a powder for the wrong reason...

Walkalong
March 29, 2014, 07:58 PM
700X is more forgiving than Clays when the pressure gets up there. Clays is good stuff though. I like them both, but if I had to give one up, it would be Clays, as I feel 700X is more versatile.

sexybeast
March 29, 2014, 08:51 PM
Clays is scary stuff with heavy bullets especially trying to make Major with a 230gr bullet. 700x is more versatile but also spikes. For 230gr most shooters I know like Bullseye or Titegroup for fast powders.
Between the two I would go with 700x and deal with how bad it measures.
For puffballs at paper I wouild go with Clays.
Since you have both i think you did real well. Keep your eyes open for hp38 and you won't go back to anything else.

jmorris
March 30, 2014, 07:45 PM
You can make "major" with a 230 @ 718 fps and Clays will do that without any drama.

Cranky CJ
March 30, 2014, 10:37 PM
I'm surprised to hear about how 700x doesn't meter will. I've not had any problems with that. Shoots pretty clean, and pretty accurate w/ a 200g lead bullet.

abq87120
April 6, 2014, 10:52 AM
I shot a USPSA practice event ($6.00 entry fee) with the load below, about 130 rounds.

230 gr FMJ Precision Delta bullet
4.0 gr 700x
CCI #300 LPP
1.275" COAL
Mixed range brass

The gun felt great. I don't do enough shooting to do well in these events but I like this round. I use USPSA and IDPA events as practice to see what I might do wrong in an SD situation. Very educational. Highly recommended if you haven't tried one.

I will probably make up a load with the Clays sometime just to see how it feels. My Hornady powder drop is pretty consistent with most powders. My Powder Cop die caught a few light loads with the 700X and I'm glad I have it. I had a bullet stuck in my barrel once from a light load when I didn't use the Powder Cop and it was a huge pain to get out. I load 800X in my 40's and am used to being careful with this wafer type powder. It can measure like corn flakes as I've heard it called, lol.

Dan in ABQ

jmorris
April 6, 2014, 11:02 AM
The gun felt great. I don't do enough shooting to do well in these events but I like this round. I use USPSA and IDPA events as practice to see what I might do wrong in an SD situation. Very educational. Highly recommended if you haven't tried one.

This was the results with my Clays load at the last sanctioned match I shot a 45 in.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20130316_164252_112_zps76b5a53d.jpg

While it can be fun I wouldn't look at USPSA rules or IDPA rules as sound advise on what to to in an SD situation. There are a lot of things you must do in IDPA that would be quite stupid if you did them in real life. Will teach you things other than tactics though.

sauer1911
April 6, 2014, 08:38 PM
When I first started reloading 700X was the only powder available. I use it for .45acp, 4.2grains, 1.22oal, 230gr x-treme fmj.

In MY Sig .45 TTT, Stainless, and Black Nitron.

Works great, a little stinky, but oh well. It meters ok, not bad, not as good as Autocomp, or WST.

It works fine for me.

be safe

303load
April 7, 2014, 12:43 AM
700x or clays...
Well sorry for the hijack but with the powder shortage I only have true blue, accurate number 9, and unique. Load suggestions? 230 RN Missouri Bullet.

Just target practice and would prefer to save my unique for the 38 if at all possible. Thanks

abq87120
April 7, 2014, 10:16 AM
303Load, I haven't used AA #9 in a 45. It is a very slow burn rate powder and I understand that is not good for heavy bullets. I do use it in 357 Sigs as a compressed load to help prevent set back though.

Dan in ABQ.

oneounceload
April 7, 2014, 10:46 AM
You can actually FIND Clays?

Tony k
April 7, 2014, 10:48 AM
303load, I like unique for .45acp 230 grain loads. I've shot about a pound of it. In my limited experience I found that it meters well and functions well across a wide range of charges. I'd jump on the unique if you can find it.

I have more experience with 700x simply because it is more available around here. It shoots well and is cleaner than the unique, but it is the poorest metering power I've used in my limited experience.

FMJBT
April 7, 2014, 02:39 PM
I have 700x. Love it

Xtreme 230 gr
1.260 OAL
4.4gr 700x

Doesn't meter poorly for me out of
My old uniflow. The more people complain about it is good for me, I'll keep buying the stuff.

LubeckTech
April 11, 2014, 02:39 PM
For a long time Clays was the only powder I COULD find!

303load
May 4, 2014, 11:52 PM
I have 700x. Love it

Xtreme 230 gr
1.260 OAL
4.4gr 700x

Doesn't meter poorly for me out of
My old uniflow. The more people complain about it is good for me, I'll keep buying the stuff.

What was your FPS?
I just bought 2# of 700 and I will b using the Lee auto disc. Thanks.

303load
May 4, 2014, 11:58 PM
303load, I like unique for .45acp 230 grain loads. I've shot about a pound of it. In my limited experience I found that it meters well and functions well across a wide range of charges. I'd jump on the unique if you can find it.

I have more experience with 700x simply because it is more available around here. It shoots well and is cleaner than the unique, but it is the poorest metering power I've used in my limited experience.

Thanks Tony. I have unique but I feel I need to save it for now with my other stock on hand. Have bullseye and loaded 500 plus Rounds. with my 2# of 700 I'm prob leaning on working up a 700 load then decide after Chrony and groups what direction to head. Best wishes.

Gottahaveone
May 5, 2014, 05:41 PM
I have loaded probably 10k rounds of .45acp using 4.5gr 700-X and a 225gr truncated cone lead bullet. It's shot well in every pistol I've ever tried it in, and it's a pretty clean load. Never had any problems metering it.....

303load
May 8, 2014, 12:06 AM
I have loaded probably 10k rounds of .45acp using 4.5gr 700-X and a 225gr truncated cone lead bullet. It's shot well in every pistol I've ever tried it in, and it's a pretty clean load. Never had any problems metering it.....

That's great news. The bullseye and lead ball I've been loading is a little dirty. I'm hoping to get more than 100 rounds or so thru it with a plated 200 gn RS and 700x without it getting finicky. Best wishes.

303load
May 8, 2014, 12:18 AM
I have loaded probably 10k rounds of .45acp using 4.5gr 700-X and a 225gr truncated cone lead bullet. It's shot well in every pistol I've ever tried it in, and it's a pretty clean load. Never had any problems metering it.....

Did ya chrono that load by chance?

Tony k
May 8, 2014, 09:57 AM
230grain xtreme plated RN
PMC cases
Winchester LPP primers
OAL 1.260
5.0 grains of 700x
Taurus 1911 full size 5" barrel

IIRC, an 8 shot test showed a spread of 800 to 840fps. I think overall average was 830fps. Moderate to high recoil.

I know that's more than you need to make major, 303, but at least its some frame of reference.

darkdan
May 8, 2014, 10:36 AM
YMMV and don't try this at home.

MBC 230 gr lead
CCI primers
OAL 1.260
Mixed brass
M&P 45

3.7 gr Clays - 775.85 fps, 10.28 sd
3.9 gr Clays - 815.73 fps, 12.71 sd

I got better groups and velocity with Titegroup (one of the few times I've ever benched a handgun), but I was able to actually find Clays over the past year so I have a few lbs of it. Certainly less smokey with these lead loads.

303load
May 8, 2014, 03:35 PM
230grain xtreme plated RN
PMC cases
Winchester LPP primers
OAL 1.260
5.0 grains of 700x
Taurus 1911 full size 5" barrel

IIRC, an 8 shot test showed a spread of 800 to 840fps. I think overall average was 830fps. Moderate to high recoil.

I know that's more than you need to make major, 303, but at least its some frame of reference.

Thanks the 200gn plated I have coming should go up in velocity. The ones I have coming like it closer to 900 so I'm told. Best wishes.

303load
May 13, 2014, 01:38 AM
Well after looking at the 700x numbers and the 800x decided on the 800. I have both. Guess ill be saving the 700 for tougher times. Best wishes.

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