Recoil comparison: Defender, P40, K40, and Glock 23?


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mini14jac
April 3, 2004, 11:44 AM
Here's the deal:
I've owned a Glock 19 and 23.
The 23 was a little "jumpy", but not painful

I've currently got a (.45) Colt Defender.
I'm finding myself working too hard on my grip, to enjoy shooting the
gun.

I'm looking at a .40 cal. Kahr.

I think I would prefer the steel K40, as this will be carried IWB.
(I've got a 9mm PM9 for pocket carry. The .40 will be carried when clothing will allow for a larger caliber.)
I realize the P40 would be easier to carry, but I'm leaning toward all-steel.

I know I need to shoot one, but that's not an option locally, right now.

Has anybody shot one of the Kahrs, and a 3" 1911?
Or one of the Kahrs vs. the G23?

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WilsonCQB
April 4, 2004, 10:53 AM
If you didn't like the G23 recoil, I highly recommend you stay away from the P40 Kahr. It may jump out of your hand. The Kahr K40 is better than the P40, but will still be jumpy as compared to the Glock 23. There is simply more gun to hold onto with the G23 than either of the Kahrs. I have shot the 4" compact 1911 from Kimber (CDP-aluminum frame) and it isn't to bad (in my hands).
I switched the way I hold onto the gun over the last few years and the way I shoot now make a huge difference on percieved recoil. A few years back, I didn't much care for my Glock 23. My hand would fall asleep and it just wasn't FUN to shoot. Since changing my grip, I can put several hundred rounds down range without problem.
I suggest you try the following:
Try the hgh thumb hold grip (with both thumbs up) the thumb of the support hand is parallel with the barrel. the thumb of the shooting hand is over the top of the support hand. Be sure you have you hand up as HI as possible on the backstrap of the Glock to minimize recoil/muzzle flip. Also, turn you shooting hand in (cant the gun) so you can maximize the wrist strength. By doing this you will have a much stronger grip on the gun and it would be like adding a muzzle break to your pistol.
Good luck.

wally
April 4, 2004, 11:20 AM
Get the P40 it'll be easier to carry. Its a self defense gun! Unless you can't hit with it, who cares how much "fun" it is at the range. Toughen up a bit :-)

Seriouly, if you are happy with the PM9, I doubt you'd have trouble with the P40. I carry a PM40 quite a bit and mostly practice with the P40 that it replaced -- although I am considering trading it for the PM40 sized steel framed MK40 gun to get the same grip size and a bit less recoil at the range.

Puting 100 rounds thru my PM40 is no problem, but puting 200 rounds thru my Kimber Ultra Carry is easier. I shoot 180 gr in .40, 230 gr in .45.

I find the PM9/40 too much weight for a pocket.

--wally.

cratz2
April 4, 2004, 10:07 PM
If you didn't like the G23, you aren't going to like the Kakr P40 with the same ammo. I don't think I've ever shot a P40, but I've shot PM9s and P9s and a P9 Covert along with a K40 and I found the K40 less comfortable than the PM9. Again, different ammos will have different recoil characteristics.

I've put 200 rounds through my G23 on a few occasions and didn't have a problem but I wouldn't be overly eager to try that with a Kahr P40. As always, you need to try to shoot one before making a decision. I'd call around and see if there's any way you could possibly shoot a P40 before buying one... You never know until you ask. There may be a range and one of the folks that works there just might have a P40 in the safe.

Series 70
April 5, 2004, 01:21 PM
I own a P40 and found that ammo selection contributed greatly to its controllability. After trying a variety of defensive ammo I settled on Winchester SXT 165gr JHP. I added a Hogue Hand-All Jr. grip sleeve and the P40 became managable. Still snappy, mind you, but managable.

Now, I *am* selling the thing, but that's because it became odd-man out in my carry lineup.

GigaBuist
April 5, 2004, 05:06 PM
Also, turn you shooting hand in (cant the gun) so you can maximize the wrist strength. By doing this you will have a much stronger grip on the gun and it would be like adding a muzzle break to your pistol.

I really like doing that with the Glock 23. I feel a little 'ghetto' shooting with a firearm 30 degrees off center but it does make the grip feel more natural.

If you turn the thing 90 degrees of center it'll eject the brass to the LEFT of you. At least mine did.

Also, if you do this 90 degree tilt thing with the gun 6 inches above your line of sight one handed screaming obscenities at the target while at the firing line you'll probably get some weird looks.

Jim PHL
April 5, 2004, 08:33 PM
I have a K40 and love it. I think it's one of the best designs for a CCW due to its controllable power, dependability and "carryability". It is a little "jumpy". I would think less so than the G23. My father has a G27 and I feel the Kahr is alittle easier on the hand however I shoot the G27 a little better (more accurately by a small margin).
Springfield Micro-Compact (3" 1911 .45) is in the works. I'll be glad to do a comparison for you! (Give me a week or so!)

mini14jac
April 6, 2004, 07:09 AM
Thanks for the replies.
I'm going to a shop this evening to look at some other guns.
I'm not sure that I want to give up on the .45 just yet.
I think I'll fondle a Glock 36.

Pendragon
April 8, 2004, 05:17 AM
I had a Defender for a while - pit maybe 1000-1300 rounds through it.

I found the recoil to be not bad at all.

Have you shot a 1911 much before?

Are you riding both thumbs on the safety? That is probably the best grip.

I liked everything about the Defender except how reliable it wasn't.

mini14jac
April 8, 2004, 07:11 AM
I've decided to give the .45 one more try as a carry gun.
I traded the Defender on a Glock 36.

Every other gun that I have is DAO, so that may have been part of my problem.
Also, it wasn't that the recoil hurt, but if I use a gun in self defense, I want as much control of each shot as possible.
That may have come with time, with the Defender, but I'm not very patient. :D

I took the G36 to the range and put 100 rounds through it.
I suspected it might feed everything, and I was right.
The weight is about the same as the Defender, and the width is very close.

The G36 seemed easier to control for me.
I think the grip is "deeper" from front to back than the Colt.
This feels a little strange, but I suspect it helps my grip, and my control.

From 10 yards, I could put 7 shots in one ragged hole, (at the X ring) shooting UMC or Wolf 230gr ammo. That's not too shabby for the first time out.

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