Resizing 308 brass


PDA






birdmanflocka
April 1, 2014, 05:23 PM
I began reloading 308 for my bolt action using the Lee deluxe 308 dies which includes both the full length sizing die as well as the neck sizer. For my once fired federal brass, I only did neck sizing and the cases chamber properly. The rest of my brass is all Lake City once fired brass and the bolt doesn't close without running it through my full length sizing die first.

My problem is: after i run the lake city brass through the full length sizing die, the mouth doesn't bell enough to allow the bullet to fit snug. Do I need to run the resized cases through the neck sizing die? I set up the full length die according to the lee instructions and adjusted until the empty cases would chamber properly into my rifle and the bolt would close completely. Do I need to screw the die deeper into my Hornady LNL AP? It already requires a good amount of force to fully raise the shellplate all the way up into the dies.

Thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "Resizing 308 brass" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
BluewaterLa
April 1, 2014, 05:33 PM
When you use the full length sizer die it resizes the case mouth, the tension on the bullet is good. You may have to hold the bullet till its in the seating die.
As long as you are not shaving the bullets jacket,ect. Your good.
Neck sizing will only bump the shoulder back so that's why you see the difference. After you fire the resized LC brass through your rifle then you can neck size those as well. Hope this helps you.
Rifle cases do not get belled or expanded like pistol.

BluewaterLa
April 1, 2014, 05:40 PM
And no you do not need to use both dies, using neck sizer die would be unnecessary after full length sizing.
I'm sure if you adjusted your die like you said that the bolt completely closed, you shouldn't have a need for going any farther down.
Do you have a chamber checker or headspace gauge ? I will recommend them.

SASS#23149
April 1, 2014, 05:59 PM
measure the mandrel of the ns die,and the expander ball of the fl die.If your bullets fit loose after using the fl die,you may need to polish it down a few thousandth.s
some lee sets come with mulitple mandrels,if not yours,Lee sells them in different sizes I believe.
imho,you should not have to hold the bullet in place and then rely on crimp to to do that job.

Measure the size of the fl expander ball,and the ns dies' mandrel.Sounds like they may be two different sizes,might need to order a bigger expander ball if possible for the fl die.
.. If it's hard to run the cases into the die,you are not lubing the cases,or at least not enough.If you are using One Shot,good luck to you from HUNDREDS of posts about it online. Lubed cases should not make'work' out of sizing a case,quite the opposite.

To start the bullets easier most folks chamfer the case mouth a tad after trimming to length. Rifle dies,,for the most part..do not include a flaring device.

BHarada
April 1, 2014, 06:14 PM
Your once-fired LC brass was most likely fired from a machine gun and will be more oversized than anything fired out of a bolt action. Try turning your FL sizing die down another 1/8 1/4 turn. Also, neck sizing dies should only be used on brass fired out of the rifle you're reloading it for since all it does restore the neck tension so you can seat a bullet. All other dimensions are maintained so that the fit in the chamber is a theoretical perfect match. Even then after a few firings you'll still need to full length resize as the case fit will get tighter and tighter after each firing.

As for seating bullets it's easier using bullets with boat tails, but with flat base bullets I just hold them in place as they enter into the seating die. Trying to balance them will only case a lot of swearing. :D

Vol46
April 1, 2014, 06:51 PM
Not sure what you mean by " the mouth doesn't bell enough to make the bullet fit snug"..... The mouth of a bottleneck rifle case does not get a flare or bell during the reloading process. When you resize the case with a full length resizing die that is properly set up, you should have enough neck tension to hold the bullet. The bullet should start into the case if you align it, maybe holding it into place with your fingers as it starts up into the seating die.

When you neck size a case that has already been fired in your guns chamber (the only time you should neck size) you are only sizing the neck of the case to the diameter necessary to hold the bullet with the correct amount of neck tension.

Describe your problem.. Is the bullet not being held firmly enough by the case neck, or are you unable to get it started into the neck?

ArchAngelCD
April 1, 2014, 07:03 PM
Neck sizing will only bump the shoulder back so that's why you see the difference.
No, neck sizing does not bump the shoulder back at all. That's why after you neck size a few times you will probably need to full length size.

It sounds like your full length sizing die is not adjusted properly but like said above, rifle dies do not flare or bell the case. You should chamfer the case mouth slightly to aid in starting the bullet.

birdmanflocka
April 1, 2014, 07:08 PM
Thanks for all the input, really helpful.


Once I trimmed, chamfered and deburred the cases after full length resizing, the bullets are being held by the case neck just firmly enough to not fall out when I flip it upside down and shake it around. Problem has been solved.

Cases have been trimmed to 2.005 and I'm seating bullets to COL of 2.8. Using 39 grains of IMR 8208 XBR powder with CCI large rifle primers. Haven't tested this load yet but its the starting load straight from the Hodgdon reloading website so hopefully it works out!

BluewaterLa
April 1, 2014, 09:01 PM
Birdman I thought what you were describing to be your neck tension was tight and not allowing your bullet to get a start in the case like they did with the neck sizer. You stated that you thought they were not belled enough.
Did I misunderstand your post ?
My post did get gummed up there with the NECK sizing part !! I even proofed it twice and still didn't catch it. Thanks archangel ! And I apologize bird man for the goof :)

birdmanflocka
April 1, 2014, 09:24 PM
Birdman I thought what you were describing to be your neck tension was tight and not allowing your bullet to get a start in the case like they did with the neck sizer. You stated that you thought they were not belled enough.
Did I misunderstand your post ?
My post did get gummed up there with the NECK sizing part !! I even proofed it twice and still didn't catch it. Thanks archangel ! And I apologize bird man for the goof :)
No worries Bluewater, your comment was helpful. I read up all I could through my Lyman handbook and watched several youtube videos on reloading 308's but I just wanted to make sure I'm doing everything correctly this time. I had a bad 223 round that damaged my bolt once so I want to eliminate any chance of error this time with 308.

BTW does anyone know what happens if the starting load is 39 grains of IMR 8208 XBR and I load a round with 37-38 grains? My hornady powder drop sometimes seems to drop a little less than what I set it at and I usually catch it with my RCBS powder check if its off by a lot but sometimes its hard to gauge whether each round is exactly 39 grains. Would it result in a squib or cause pressure issues if it dropped a few grains below the suggested minimum load?

BluewaterLa
April 1, 2014, 09:32 PM
Mm.. Not completely sure it would cause a problem, Maybe a slow bolt on a semi auto but not a squib.
On your hornady powder measure, do you treat it with powder graphite and cycle that through a few times before you fill with powder ?
And after filling try to tap lightly to pack the powder some and cycle 10 or15 charges back into the hopper. This is what I do with mine and I get precise charges every time.

Vol46
April 1, 2014, 09:35 PM
"Just firmly enough not to fall out when you flip it upside down & shake it around" is not enough neck tension. Bullet should be held firmly enough by the resized case to press it pretty hard against a firm surface like your reloading bench, without causing any setback.. Measure the length of the loaded cartridge with your calipers - press it into a tabletop, measure it again ... If it is shorter, you do not have enough neck tension, & you probably have a problem with how your die is set up.

If you are having to force the handle really hard as the shell approaches the top of your stroke & is forced into the sizing die as you said in your original post, something is wrong. Start over. Screw the die down until it touches the shell holder with the ram fully up as per the instructions, lower the ram, & screw it in a bit more ( 1/2 to 3/4 turn) to account for " slack" in the system. Then try a case - see if it chambers OK in your gun - it should be fine.. If not, report back.

Vol46
April 1, 2014, 09:49 PM
PS - 2 grains under the starting load is not a great place to begin either - if your neck tension is light, & your powder charge is low as well..... Pressures will be pretty low - bullet will likely leave the barrel, but brass will not likely expand enough to seal the chamber, your cases will get very sooty, velocity will be pretty low, primers may back out some & not be re seated by the low chamber pressure.

gamestalker
April 2, 2014, 04:48 AM
Use the published start charge.

You don't need to crimp bottle neck cartridges unless they are going to be fired from a machine gun, or a tubular magazine

You don't bell bottle neck case mouths

If your resizing die is adjusted correctly, neck tension should be such that it would be impossible for you to pull a bullet, even using all your strength. You should be able to shake, rattle, roll, and even drop the cartridges and the bullet shouldn't move at all.

Only resize your brass once if you are using a fL die first., and that's only when the shoulders need to be bumped.

Adjust your FL die so that when the ram is fully extended, it should cam over when it makes contact with the shell holder, it's probably a little different instructions for a shell plate.

Oh, and neck dies do not bump shoulders at all, that would contradict their entire purpose.

GS

birdmanflocka
April 2, 2014, 03:11 PM
I heard after shooting 3-4 times in my bolt action, I will have to FL resize again as the cases will become too enlarged to neck size only. I have 10 rounds with LC brass that I made first, prior to screwing in the die another 1/4 turn, which fit in the chamber but the bolt is a little bit harder to close. I assume the bolt will be even harder to close after I fire these once so should I FL resize these again again after I fire them? After these 10 rounds, I turned the die in another 1/4 turn and all the brass that followed chambers well and the bolt closes easily like factory rounds.

gamestalker
April 3, 2014, 02:34 AM
Forget about the 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn method, that doesn't work when your trying to maintain close head space tolerances. What you need to do when it's time to bump the shoulder's, is either make a gauge to measure shoulder to head before they've been resized, which is what I've done, or buy one. Then adjust the FL die to duplicate that measurement of brass that is in need of bumping, but .002" shorter from head to shoulder. Seriously, a 1/4 turn could bump the shoulders back excessively and result in incipient head separations.

GS

birdmanflocka
April 3, 2014, 07:28 PM
Forget about the 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn method, that doesn't work when your trying to maintain close head space tolerances. What you need to do when it's time to bump the shoulder's, is either make a gauge to measure shoulder to head before they've been resized, which is what I've done, or buy one. Then adjust the FL die to duplicate that measurement of brass that is in need of bumping, but .002" shorter from head to shoulder. Seriously, a 1/4 turn could bump the shoulders back excessively and result in incipient head separations.

GS
http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Reloading-Length-Headspace-Gauge/dp/B002RJURSM

Will this work for measuring shoulder to head?

I used my caliper to measure the length from the base to the two lines on the neck and they're pretty close to the dimensions of a factory round. Its just a little hard to tell because its not a clear cut line on the case.

birdmanflocka
May 5, 2014, 01:59 AM
Hello all,

I just went to the Crossroads gun show in Ontario this past weekend and saw some cheap .30 cal 150gr FBSP bullets, $75 for 500. Decided to pick up a bag for reloading 308's. I've been using 168gr Graff HPBT bullets with 39 grains of IMR 8208 XBR with luck so far but I ran out.

I can't find any load data for 308's using IMR 8208 and .30 cal 150gr FBSP. Anyone familiar with this type of bullet? Does FB stand for flat base? And is SP soft point or semi point?

Should I load these using 150 grain nos e-tip or nos bt bullets data? Hodgdon lists as 40.8 and 40.0 grains starting loads on their website.

Thanks for your help!

BluewaterLa
May 6, 2014, 01:18 AM
Flat base soft point 150 grain I believe would be it.
As for the load data, you should be able to get that from IMR web site data.
If not the exact bullet is listed due to brand, I would just match it to data with a similar 150 grain bullet for data and use start charge and work up in small increments, be safe ! Good luck, and have fun bird man :cool:

birdmanflocka
May 6, 2014, 03:17 AM
Flat base soft point 150 grain I believe would be it.
As for the load data, you should be able to get that from IMR web site data.
If not the exact bullet is listed due to brand, I would just match it to data with a similar 150 grain bullet for data and use start charge and work up in small increments, be safe ! Good luck, and have fun bird man :cool:
Thanks BluewaterLa!

I'll go with IMR's listed load data for 150 gr nos BT starting load of 40 grains and work up to 44.5 grains. Let you guys know how that goes...

I assume I should seat it to the cannelure just to see how that goes, but I don't think I'll be able to get a COL of 2.8" because these bullets are pretty short. Any suggestions guys?

MEHavey
May 6, 2014, 07:10 AM
All other things** notwithstanding, "General" Rule of thumb ~ 2/3 of a caliber into the case.




** (Magazine length, seating to lands, etc)

BluewaterLa
May 6, 2014, 10:10 PM
Seating the bullet to the cannulure is the place to be.
Load data from a like bullet will usually have a different oal.
If they are short projectiles, then sure your oal will be shorter than data suggest.
If you are unsure, measure the bullets and post back, I will compare them to the many different types I have on hand :D

grubbylabs
May 6, 2014, 10:21 PM
For something like that I would start with the lowest start load I can find and start working towards the highest max I find. I would go no farther than best performing loads for your criteria.

I have found that the Hodgdon, IMR data on their site is usually a little hotter than the bullet manufacturer data. I usually find my best load following the bullet manufacture's data.

birdmanflocka
May 7, 2014, 03:40 AM
For something like that I would start with the lowest start load I can find and start working towards the highest max I find. I would go no farther than best performing loads for your criteria.

I have found that the Hodgdon, IMR data on their site is usually a little hotter than the bullet manufacturer data. I usually find my best load following the bullet manufacture's data.
Unfortunately, I am unable to find the bullet manufacturer on the bag. I tried searching for similar bullets made by different companies but nothing quite matches the ones I have specifically.

grubbylabs
May 7, 2014, 09:54 PM
That's why I would start at the lowest data you can find. Not all jacketed bullets are created equal.

But some where in between is the load your looking for.

If you enjoyed reading about "Resizing 308 brass" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!