Pick one: Colt Gold Cup, Stoeger Luger, Walther P-38, and Browning Medalist


PDA






AirPower
April 4, 2004, 05:36 AM
I have a chance to pick up one or more of the following from an estate collection, but I'm trying to place them in a priority order in case I have funds to get more than one.

- Colt, Gold Cup, Semiauto, 45 ACP target pistol ca 1959
- Stoeger, Luger, Semiauto, 9 x 19 mm, stainless, 6" bbl
- Walther, P-38, Semiauto, 9 x 19 mm, Code ac40, German Army WW2
- Browning, Medalist, Semiauto, 22 Rimfire target pistol

What do you think of this order? The only one I'm not so certain of is the Stoeger Luger, it's not quite a classic as the rest of them. I have more modern semiauto for range time, these will be for my own collection, and be shot lightly from time to time. All the price will be based on the 2003 Blue Book, is it a fair basis for these guns? Thank you.

If you enjoyed reading about "Pick one: Colt Gold Cup, Stoeger Luger, Walther P-38, and Browning Medalist" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Josey
April 4, 2004, 06:28 AM
A Colt Gold Cup? There is NO other choice.

Walt Sherrill
April 4, 2004, 09:20 AM
Gold Cup.

---------

The Luger may be problematic -- unless its one of the very old, first ones.

The P-38 interesting, but nothing special -- unless collector quality.

And the Browning a nice plinker with some collector interest.

______

Blue Book prices may be your best bet, but prices vary regionally, and that's not always reflected in the Blue Book.

ruger357
April 4, 2004, 09:34 AM
Gold cup.

Ala Dan
April 4, 2004, 10:26 AM
Colt Gold Cup

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

rich2u
April 4, 2004, 10:50 AM
You actually had the stones to come here & ask:what:

Take the poor sod to the woodshed:neener:

& then buy the Goldcup...

Longbow
April 4, 2004, 01:55 PM
Uummh....errr...Gold Cup! and put the rest on layaway. :D

Lobotomy Boy
April 4, 2004, 02:59 PM
The Gold Cup would be far preferable to the rest. A distant second would be the Browning, third the P38, and I wouldn't even consider the Luger. The Walther is right on the cusp of what I would consider a modern shooter, and the Luger is a relic. If you collect German military sidearms and the gun has historical value, fine, but as a gun...

Majic
April 4, 2004, 04:27 PM
First toss out the Stoeger. It aint what it looks to be.
First choice would be a toss up between the Colt and the Browning (I would choose the Browning even though the Colt is nice, I just have no use for adjustable sights on a 1911). The Medalist is more than a plinker. It's a real nicely made Belgium .22lr target pistol.
The P-38 would fill the military niche if you have one, so that would be a distant 3rd for me.

Black Majik
April 4, 2004, 05:29 PM
As long as you pick up the Gold Cup, that's all that matters. :D

Sean Smith
April 4, 2004, 06:11 PM
Of those choices, the Colt Gold Cup National Match. Pre-Series 70 Gold Cups rocked. :cool:

Hard Ball
April 4, 2004, 06:28 PM
All Colt Gold Cups are excellent pistols. Those made prior to 1970 are the best. Get the Gold Cup!

Lobotomy Boy
April 4, 2004, 06:33 PM
I didn't notice that the Luger was a Stoeger. I wouldn't pay $50 for a Stoeger Luger. I'd have to think long and hard before spending $25 for one of those stank Ps of S.

XavierBreath
April 4, 2004, 06:53 PM
My pick would be:
- Stoeger, Luger
- Walther, P-38
- Browning, Medalist

I's take all three directly to the gunstore and trade them for a Gold Cup and a box of ammo. Seriously, get the Gold Cup. Don't consider the rest.

Johnny Guest
April 4, 2004, 06:58 PM
- - -I pick the Colt National Match. You must have some reason for specifying that it is circa 1959, which was the apex of Colt's fit, finish, accuracy, and all else. Some call these the "Pre-Gold Cup" pistols.

About the only thing- - - That was during the time the NM slide was cut out on the bottom, to lighten it for function with 185 gr semi wadcutter target loads. General practice and plinking should be limited to these lighter factory target loads, or moderate handloads. I managed to crack slides on two such pistols in the course of shooting A LOT of 230 gr hard ball equivalent handloads. These pistols repaired okay, but why take chances?

I'd have no qualms about shooting a couple of magazines of ball ammo to regulate the sights, and keeping the piece for home defense, or even carrying it in a proper holster. I just wouldn't use ANY +P ammo in it, or shoot it in IPSC competition where you wanted to shoot at major power levels. (Do they still do that??)

Colt's began using solid bottom slides in later production, and all the 70 and 80 Series were so fitted.

A 1959 vintage Colt NM .45 is a valuable piece in its own right. Additionally, I am a fan of .45 auto pistols in general, and older Colts in particular. Only other pistol there in which I'd be interested would be the P38. The AC40 indicates it was actually produced at the Walther plant, in 1940. This was the epitome of quality for the P38 pistol, and if in nice condition, it is a particularly valuable collector's example - - possibly twice as valuable as a typical later-wartime P38. It would be a nice investment piece if you know any collectors of (1) Walther firearms, (2) Nazi memorabilia, or (3) military handguns. Unfortunately, this is mainly a waiting game and can be very time consuming to get your money out of it. Buy low, sell high - -You know.

The P38 was a ground breaking example of the type, but the state of the art has long passed it by, as a fighting firearm. It is almost impossible to find one that properly feeds modern hollow point ammo, and it is too valuable a collector item to modify for the purpose. Being limited to ball ammo, its utility for defense is limited. The unmodified thumb safety/decocker and wide slide make it rather clumsy for concealed carry, eve if not for wanting to keep a collector firearm in as good a shape as possible.

The Browning .22 is a nice piece, but there are other plinkers and target pistols easily available, for a lot less money.

We're all agreed that the Stoeger Luger is not a consideration.

Whatever you choose, best of luck to you.
Johnny

Jason Demond
April 4, 2004, 07:04 PM
I would get the Gold Cup.

Marshall
April 4, 2004, 07:23 PM
Toss the Stogee and buy the others.

Jim K
April 5, 2004, 04:04 PM
Good advice from a pure shooting point of view. But a collector has different advice:

If that AC40 P.38 is in top condition (95% or more), go for it. You can buy a Gold Cup and get change for what it is worth.

Jim

Zeke Menuar
April 5, 2004, 07:42 PM
I guess I am in the minority here, so what else is new? I am working from the position of wannabe collector.

I am saving for a pre-44 P-38 in good shootable condition. If it were me I would consider the Walther first.

Then the Gold Cup. I am not into collecting American guns yet. There are other 1911's I am interested in. Gold Cup isn't one of them. But based on the choices given, the Gold Cup would get a good look if the Walther didn't measure up.

Then the Browning.

Not interested in the Luger. Just the name Luger screams overpriced collectable. I like Lugers but I have no desire to buy one.

This is my opinion. Your opinion may vary.

ZM

.45FMJoe
April 5, 2004, 11:23 PM
Gold Cup

then the 38 if possible.

StuporDave
April 6, 2004, 12:35 AM
Colt
Luger
Walther
Browning

But I already have a P38, so maybe:

Colt
Walther
Luger
Browning

Either way, get the Colt

Mark8252
April 6, 2004, 01:12 AM
I would get the Gold Cup.

AirPower
April 7, 2004, 02:39 PM
Going to try to get the Colt National Match today. Thank you for the advice. When did Colt officially use "Gold Cup" name? Because this one only says National Match on it, with relatively low serial # in the 5000 range.

Sean Smith
April 7, 2004, 02:47 PM
From the late 1950s the guns were officially "Gold Cup National Match" (and said so right on the cover of the owner's manual), however the guns themselves were only marked "National Match."

Gordon
April 7, 2004, 06:52 PM
Get the $1000 Gold Cup, then the $350 Medalist (unless it is the deluxe medalist with fancy walnut and foreend ,then its worth $600) then the $450 Walther. That SS erzarz Luger is worth $300-to somebody.

Rogomay
April 7, 2004, 10:58 PM
Gold Cup.

AirPower
April 7, 2004, 11:27 PM
Just got back from looking at them and an initial round of price negotation. Here's some more info:

Colt '59 Gold Cup National Match
It looks fantastic, a couple of very light scratches here and there, and slight holster bluing wear around front of slide. I think I can get it for $450 but no less.

Walther P-38, ac40
You can tell it was originally stamped just "ac". The 40 was later factory added on. I think it has more value. Overall in excellent condition, not importer marked. It has high gloss blue finish, was that time appropriate? It was said to be a GI bringback, with original mag (Walther waffenamp) and also holster (but it's a '44, not '40). I dont' think I can get it for less than $700, I'll probably pass.

Browning Medalist, Semiauto, 22 Rimfire target pistol
I don't think I can get it for less than $400. I'm going to pass.

Stoeger Luger, Semiauto, 9 x 19 mm, stainless, 6" bbl
It's in like new condition but after hearing from you guys, I am going to pass on it too.

So it looks like the only semi-auto I'd get from this is Colt Gold Cup...is that a decent price? Also I forgot to mention this one. It's not really semiauto, it's a Hi-Standard D-101 Derringer in 22LR, DAO. It looks to be decent shape, 90% I'd say. Is $150 a good price?

PATH
April 7, 2004, 11:31 PM
I concur with most here. Gold Cup! I have a series 70 National Match and it is just so much fun to shoot!

AirPower
April 14, 2004, 01:06 PM
Here's an update, I ended up getting the Colt National Match for $480. very nice high gloss and polished bluing.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=937244

AirPower
April 14, 2004, 01:08 PM
a close up of the mirror-like slide surface, Colt sure made it very well. Can you tell I was using a Canon digital cam? :D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=937255

Jason Demond
April 14, 2004, 07:10 PM
Nice!:)

Standing Wolf
April 14, 2004, 08:35 PM
I have a Medalist. It's an ingeniously designed, very well made and finished, delightfully accurate match pistol. If I had an extra $150 for a second magazine, I'd compete with it.

The rest of the pistols on your list wouldn't be of interest to me.

middy
April 15, 2004, 12:13 AM
Is it just me, or is the notch (or whatever it's called) for the slide stop all chewed up?

XavierBreath
April 15, 2004, 01:59 AM
You did good. You did REAL good!

If you enjoyed reading about "Pick one: Colt Gold Cup, Stoeger Luger, Walther P-38, and Browning Medalist" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!