Today, I won a battle.


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Lucky Derby
April 11, 2014, 03:34 AM
Mods, if this is not the correct place for this, please move:
All note, both OC and CC are perfectly legal here, and neither is rare.
Those of you who know me, know that I rarely OC. Normally I CC. Out of character for me, I was OC and stopped in at my bank to deposit a check this past Saturday. While waiting in line I was approached by a bank employee, who I later learned is the branch manager. I had not seen her before, even though I have been to this branch many times. She told me that they could not accept firearms inside the bank, as it is a VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW for anyone other than a police officer to bring a gun into a bank. Had she simply said it was against bank policy I simply would have walked out to return later to close my accounts, once other arrangements had been made. But when she accused me of criminal activity, that did not sit well. I informed her that it was not a violation of any law and I would need to close my accounts if it was policy that I not carry my sidearm in the bank. She asked me to wait and she would be with me in a minute. I took this a sign that I did not need to leave immediately or face tresspassing charges. As I waited, I thought about my direct deposit from work & the automatic payment I have set up, and I would need to make other arrangements for those before closing the account. I then noticed a teller, whom I have worked with in the past, and have a good relationship with, was available & there were no other customers waiting. I went to her window and spoke to her briefly. She was aware of what was happening. She repeated the line about Fed Law, and how they had just learned of it from a Westminster Police Officer following an uncomfortable encounter with a man with a gun. I told her that the Police officer gave them faulty information, and that I would be contacting corporate.
Roughly 36 hours later (Sunday night) I sent an email to the corporate office. I described the incident, as well as my history with the bank, particularly that I have been legally carrying a firearm in their bank for 10 years, and this specific branch for 1.5 years. By Monday evening I had a genaric email that said they were sorry I had a bad experience and that my email had been sent to the appropriate people for further assistance. I should expect a detailed reply within 3 business days.
On Wednesday I got a voicemail from the branch manager, asking that I call her back. I didn't feel like dealing with it right then so I waited until Thursday. When I made contact, she immediately appologized to me. Very sincerly and profusely. She said she had gotten false information and that the corporate policy was to allow all persons who legally carry firearms to do so in their branches. She further stated that she had talked to both their legal and security departments, and had learned a lot in the last couple of days. She asked what she could do to regain my trust. I told her the only thing I required was that she send me an email, so I have something in writing should this issue ever come up again. She agreed.
As a result of this Bank of the West still has my pathetically small amount of banking business.

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Kaeto
April 11, 2014, 04:29 AM
At least the Branch Manager was willing to learn. Of course it took her bosses landing on her with both feet(probably) to get her to learn.

Centurian22
April 11, 2014, 06:17 AM
Awesome!!! Very well handled and amazing results! When you typed that she said "she would be with you in a minute" I expected the story to take a drastically different turn involving Law Enforcement. I spoke with two branches of my bank in my home town regarding carry, one (that is closer to my home but that I already didnt care for) stated there were no policies regarding customers and firearms but that they really prefer I wouldn't carry in the bank, concluding with "I'm sure you understand". The second branch (further away but that I much preferred in terms of service) not only didn't mind but encouraged it and wished they could carry and that more customers would.

hso
April 11, 2014, 08:06 AM
Well done!

TRX
April 11, 2014, 08:07 AM
Bank of the West's corporate web site seems to be generic for the enterprise; I couldn't find a corporate mailing address.

Is this the main Denver branch?

Bank of the West
621 17th Street, #103
Denver, CO 80293

An "attaboy" letter congratulating them for their enlightened policy and customer service would be appropriate. I have a couple of others to send this weekend.

I've found "attaboy" letters are much easier on by blood pressure than simply berating the bad behavior of some politicians and businesses.

Ryanxia
April 11, 2014, 08:10 AM
Very good indeed. It's nice to hear a positive story and it sounds like the situation was handled well. Sometimes it's just a mix up and rather than just walking away and blowing it off, now the branch manager is clear and won't hassle the next customer.

pjeski
April 13, 2014, 12:00 PM
Has the Westminster Police Officer's knowledge been upgraded?

Barry the Bear
April 13, 2014, 02:01 PM
Thats awesome!!!

Strahley
April 13, 2014, 04:04 PM
Awesome, good job. It's sad that there is so much bad information out there regarding guns

horsemen61
April 13, 2014, 04:12 PM
Got it in writing that is huge

gamestalker
April 13, 2014, 05:33 PM
That is an awesome example of how to educate those who believe everything they hear. Just because it came from the mouth of LE, doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate and true.

I've been carrying into my banks for decades, and as such, I have had my share of staff and other customers informing me I'm breaking Federal law. In just about every instance, it was the fact that financial institutions are FDIC, so it's misinterpreted that they are considered a federal institution.

Good Job!

GS

a-sheepdog
April 13, 2014, 06:59 PM
Outstanding that the employees were educated and that things went as well as they did.

HexHead
April 13, 2014, 07:34 PM
It's sad that there is so much bad information out there regarding guns

Even worse when the bad information comes from a person with the power to arrest you or worse.

Drail
April 13, 2014, 11:46 PM
People really aren't too bright are they? Somebody wearing a uniform tells them a line of crap and they buy into it. That cop's boss needs to be made aware of this problem as well.

stevek
April 14, 2014, 02:16 AM
Good job sir!

Lucky Derby
April 14, 2014, 02:18 AM
pjeski:
I doubt his knowledge has been updated. I don't have his name, and neither does the bank. I suspect simply contacting the PD would be worthless, though I might try it.

RustyShackelford
April 15, 2014, 10:32 PM
A forum topic like this comes up from time to time.
In 2004, I had a security co-worker swear up, down & sideways that CCed weapons couldn't be brought into any bank or financial institution insured by FDIC(federal deposit insuranced corp). :rolleyes:
This is not true. Citizens with CCW licenses can carry firearms inside banks or any other business w/o any federal law problems.
Now, as stated in past forum messages, a bank or private business could ask you to leave or not permit weapons/concealed guns but IMO, 99.9% of these managers & staff are only concerned about gang members, thugs, etc.
Not a 44 year old dentist in jorts & orange Crocs. :D

I'd agree that many working cops & chiefs/sheriffs/DAs need better in service training/updates on CCW. :mad:
My state(with many pro 2A laws/statues but no formal OC yet) ended formal classroom instruction for sworn LE officers in 2009.
If you have a smartphone or tablet with DV/audio, Id record any LE contacts in events like the topic too. Knowledge is power. Documenting what really occurs & what's spoken might be critical.

Rusty

Lucky Derby
April 16, 2014, 12:52 AM
Bank of the West's corporate web site seems to be generic for the enterprise; I couldn't find a corporate mailing address.

Is this the main Denver branch?

Bank of the West
621 17th Street, #103
Denver, CO 80293

An "attaboy" letter congratulating them for their enlightened policy and customer service would be appropriate. I have a couple of others to send this weekend.

I've found "attaboy" letters are much easier on by blood pressure than simply berating the bad behavior of some politicians and businesses.
There are quite a few branches around the Metro Denver area. I really don't know which, if any, is a "main branch". There are three branches that I go to regularly though, and I don't think any of them would qualify as such.

MagnumWill
April 16, 2014, 01:34 AM
Great work. We need to win as many as we can here in CO, no matter how small. Hopefully when a worried bank patron approaches the brach manager that's made someone who's printing, and she'll inform them that it's perfectly legal an nothing to be worried about.

Old Fuff
April 16, 2014, 01:41 PM
Has the Westminster Police Officer's knowledge been upgraded?

Indeed. It was they're officer that caused most of the problem, not the bank. The Branch Manager should be able to believe what the officer told her. Most people who were not well informed about the issue would have considered his/her statement to be reliable information.

ironworkerwill
April 16, 2014, 03:27 PM
As a result of this Bank of the West still has my pathetically small amount of banking business.
I feel your pain:o


Nice going! If you had not took it to corporate, they would continue to spread misinformation.

thefish
April 16, 2014, 09:24 PM
Has something changed?

I was under the impression OC was illegal in Metro Denver.

spaniel
April 16, 2014, 09:52 PM
This is an example of, no offense intended to officers, you should not trust the police to give you a definitive answer on the law. They are law enforcement, not law experts. Most do not have a full understanding of the laws they enforce. If they feel something is wrong they arrest/write a ticket and let the courts/lawyers sort it out.

Personally I had a rather unpleasant encounter with a LEO over a simple issue of CCW reciprocity. I was professional and polite and offered to wait while they called it in to confirm I was right, but they preferred to give me a hard time rather than call in and be proven wrong. Due to this I now carry a copy of a web page off that state's State Police webpage whenever I carry there just to avoid a repeat headache.

RustyShackelford
April 16, 2014, 10:30 PM
I say be a part of the solution not the problem. Be pro-active & make your local sheriff or police chief aware of the problem(s).
My city's police website lists the wrong information & process for obtaining a state issued CCW license. :mad:
The sheriff's office is more organized & includes how to get E fingerprints for the CCW license. ;)

As noted, new officers or deputies may/may not be fully aware of OC or CC laws, statues, ordinances, etc. Youtube.com is chock full of - LE/OC citizen disputes. :rolleyes:

I'd add that not all cops are anti gun or unaware of the state OC laws. A police officer I worked with in western PA(Nov/2013) had 0 issues with me or my .45acp in a SERPA. :D
I even stood by the borough police station OCing without any problems or remarks.
I wasn't a big OC supporter over concealed pistols but doing so honestly wasn't a big deal. Id still CC in more urban locations but it's good to know you can choose what carry.
Rusty

JVaughn
April 16, 2014, 10:52 PM
+1 Derby! Way to go!

bainter1212
April 16, 2014, 11:11 PM
My dad has been a bank manager for 20 odd years.

If there is one thing I have learned, it is that the HR and legal departments of most smaller banks are very thorough and professional. They have to be. They are trusted with other people's money.
If you ever have a problem with a bank or credit union when it comes to rules or laws, send the concern to the higher-ups. I guarantee you it gets looked at closely.

Lucky Derby
April 17, 2014, 06:13 AM
Has something changed?

I was under the impression OC was illegal in Metro Denver.

OC is illegal in the City & County of Denver. Denver City & County share the same boundries, and operate as a single government. Metro Denver encompasses a MUCH larger area than the City & County of Denver. Jefferson, Adams, Arapahoe, & Douglas counties, just to name a few. This bank branch happens to fall in Adams County. If it were on the other side of the street, it would be in Jefferson County.

Mad Chemist
April 23, 2014, 12:55 PM
Being right and being smart are not always the same thing.

KTXdm9
May 4, 2014, 09:29 AM
Excellent example of activism. Nice work OP.

4v50 Gary
May 4, 2014, 09:44 AM
Good work Lucky Derby. People at my credit union regularly carry. Then again, they do since it's a police credit union.

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