Win. model 94


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50 Shooter
April 12, 2014, 04:59 PM
So I just got one and checked the serial number, it shows being made in 1976. Yeah its not a pre '64 but its in near mint condition. The blueing is perfect as is the finish on the wood, I think it was a safe queen. No marks on the loading gate so I don't even think it was ever fired!

To top it all off the price was why I couldn't pass it up, that and I don't have one, $250 bucks! I'll post some pics when its out of lock up...

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SwampWolf
April 12, 2014, 06:32 PM
Can't go wrong for $250.00. Congratulations on acquiring one of the best "close-quarters" carbines around! Imo, every serious rifle aficionado should have at least one Model 94 in their inventory.

50 Shooter
April 12, 2014, 06:56 PM
Exactly, been wanting one for a long time. This one was offered to me as people know I'm a gunnie, I just happend to be in the right spot at the right time. For the price I just couldn't say no and let it slip through my fingers.

Guess other rifles I was looking at will have to wait now.

Liberty1776
April 12, 2014, 07:11 PM
That's a great price, and like SwampWolf said, it's the one rifle everyone must have...

Deltaboy
April 12, 2014, 08:24 PM
Great rifle and they were carried by our Sheriff's department till the early 1990's.

shafter
April 12, 2014, 09:21 PM
That's a really nice price. Most of the ones I've seen lately start at $350 and have been used a bit heavier than it sounds yours was.

ECVMatt
April 12, 2014, 09:21 PM
You SCORED! Those are great rifles and it will make a great shooter. Have fun with your new rifle!

Matt

Bexar
April 12, 2014, 09:40 PM
When pictures are posted of Texas prison guards on horses overseeing prison farm workers the guard often times has a 94' resting on his leg and pointing up to the sky in a run and get another hole put in your backside. I can't imagine how many pounds of meat has been brought to the table with that rifle design.

50 Shooter
April 12, 2014, 10:04 PM
For those of you that reload for it, can I neck size or do I need to full length size the brass when I reload? I'm already looking for all the reloading gear for it.

rcmodel
April 12, 2014, 10:11 PM
FL size.
Set the sizing die to headspace off the shoulder, not the rim.
You want your cases to just close in the action but no more for max case life.

Trim your cases and crimp everything to prevent bullet set-back in the tube magazine.

rc

T.R.
April 12, 2014, 10:14 PM
The 94 is a great deer hunting rifle and has slain both eastern and western game for many decades. I hunt with the AE model and mounted a 2X-7X scope to take advantage of the 30-30's trajectory. Zero'd to hit 2 inches high at 100 yards its right on at 150 yards. Where we hunt shots beyond 150 yards are so rare not worth mentioning.

TR

50 Shooter
April 12, 2014, 10:39 PM
Thanks RC, after buying a neck die by Redding for my Mauser and seeing that their quality is probably the best I've seen, I'm getting a set for the 94. I'll probably get their 3 die set for .30-30, thanks for the advice on sizing and setting the crimp.

Peter M. Eick
April 13, 2014, 10:40 AM
The way I have done it on my 30/30 94's is keep the brass separate for each gun and then take a fired case (normally 30 grns of 3031 with a 150 Sierra JHP but check the data as I am doing this from memory) and then sit with the gun and the press in the loading room.

First trim, chamfer and clean your fired cases. I trim every time on rifle. (Funny as I never trim a pistol round but that is another issue).

Take the fired case first try to feed it in the chamber. Feel the resistance (stop as soon as you start building resistance as otherwise you will be sizing the case in the chamber and putting a lot of stress on the mechanism) and then go to the press and with the die screwed way out (3/8" give or take) size it. Wipe the lube off and try chambering it. Feel the resistance build in the lever. You can normally get the lever to close more easily but then the resistance builds before the lever closes.

Screw the die in a quarter or half a turn and repeat.

Keep this up until the case will enter the chamber and the resistance starts to build just as the lever snaps closed or slightly before for maximum case life. Go a bit deeper (half turn) for hunting loads where you don't want the resistance caused by a bit of gunk on the case when you are looking for that fast follow up shot.

Keeping the cases separate for each 30/30 is a big deal. I am not sure why, but the chamber lengths between the different guns is really noticeable. Basically the headspace is variable between each of them. To me it is not worth fixing as keeping the brass separate is not a big deal.

This is what my shooter (early 1964 vintage) 94 will do at 100 yrds. 50 shots off the bench. The ammo was made following the procedures outlined above.

http://eickpm.com/picts/94_target.jpg

ECVMatt
April 13, 2014, 11:55 AM
PME- That is awesome! I like your technique. I have several 30/30's and mix all my brass. I am going to start using your method and see what improvement I can get.

Thank you for the information.

Matt

50 Shooter
April 13, 2014, 04:16 PM
PME, great shooting! I'm hoping mine will do as good as that, hopefully I'll have everything for next Sunday to take it to the range. Got some factory ammo for now, once I get everything I'll be handloading my own ammo.

SwampWolf
April 13, 2014, 05:44 PM
In terms of sights, I'm a big fan of having a good receiver sight on a carbine like the Model 94. I'm also of the opinion that any scope on a carbine will detract from the very handling qualities that made it so popular in the first place.

Jason248
April 13, 2014, 10:57 PM
Awesome deal. Great gun for the price! I wish I'd find a deal like that

M1GarandDeerHunter
April 14, 2014, 03:30 AM
Nice! Good for you. Excellent price. Full length size your brass and trim. I usually uniform my primer pockets too and make sure I have no high primers. Good luck with your new rifle.

Peter M. Eick
April 15, 2014, 01:08 PM
Thank you for pointing out the uniforming the primers. I also do that and just plain forgot to mention it. I also as a matter of course clean the primer pocket burr on the inside of the case.

M1GarandDeerHunter
April 16, 2014, 04:56 AM
^^^ Your welcome. BTW, thats some nice shooting with your 94! Especially with open sights. :D

joed
April 16, 2014, 04:15 PM
Who cares if it isn't a pre 64? I own one produced in 1966 that was owned by a mounted police unit here.

Unfortunately I don't shoot lever actions much but I enjoy shooting them when I can.

Get out and enjoy the new to you 94.

Peter M. Eick
April 16, 2014, 08:51 PM
I worked a long time to master opens, and then I put peeps on it.

http://eickpm.com/picts/win94s.jpg

One of these is my 9422 and the other two are my 1964 and 1952. The 64 I believe is what I shot the target with above.

50 Shooter
April 16, 2014, 11:27 PM
It's good to know that there's plenty of 94 owners here on the board, I know I'll always be able to get any questions answered quick.

M1GarandDeerHunter
April 17, 2014, 03:50 AM
Nice! 9422 is the cream. So smooth and accurate. I like peep sights as well. But a couple still wear opens.:D

50 Shooter
April 18, 2014, 02:19 PM
I picked up some brass for reloading and in the bag was a .32 Win special piece of brass. It looked like a piece of .30-30 brass, anyone know if you can make .30-30 out of these? I don't plan on using it but find it strange that it has been used to make a .30-30 case, guessing the two must be close in size? And I know that people use cases close in size to make other caliber brass out of. Just not for me as the cost of the dies and trying to find that brass doesn't seem to be that cost/time effective.

Anyone using 170gr bullets? I saw some for sale yesterday and if they do well in .30-30 I might go back today and buy all the ones they had for sale.

200Apples
April 18, 2014, 06:57 PM
.
Win '94 ftw. Congrats! 50 Sho0ter!

Question for Mr. Eick: can the receiver peeps on two of your carbines pictured above be installed keeping the saddle ring? If so, which brand are those? I've seen them before, but forget the name...

Thanks!


:-)

Peter M. Eick
April 19, 2014, 07:45 AM
They are both Williams 5D's as I remember. Williams gun sight company of Michigan makes them. I had to have my 9422 drilled for them but all of the other ones just screwed on.

Now regarding the saddle ring. When I look at mine, it should fit but I think the saddle ring will hit the sight occasionally. I see that as a cosmetic issue and would not worry about it. The sights are really tough.


As pointed out below, mine are click adjustable and not the 5D's. So much for memory. Mine are the Foolproof type. I will leave the posting "as is" since Swampwolf references it but I was wrong.

SwampWolf
April 19, 2014, 03:23 PM
They are both Williams 5D's as I remember.

For those that may not know, the only real difference between the Williams 5D model and their pricier "FoolProof" model, is the lack of micrometer adjustments on the 5D. This is not a big deal if you don't shoot much or change loads often. I have FoolProof receiver sights mounted on several rifles along with one 5D model. And I'm old enough to have purchased the 5D for five bucks-the original retail price (ergo 5D) for this sight.

200Apples
April 19, 2014, 03:35 PM
.
Sincere thanks to both of you for your replies. I'm on the hunt for one (or the other. hee!)

I had been pondering on the Lyman-style peep, but didn't know if it's mounting further aft would interfere with carrying the gun. Perhaps not when folded... dunno.

:-)

Peter M. Eick
April 19, 2014, 05:55 PM
OOPPPSSSS!!

Big mistake. Mine are fool proof as they have the click adjustable dials. Sorry about that.

50 Shooter
April 19, 2014, 10:02 PM
How fast are the sights getting on a target Vs. standard sights? I like the ability to have better sights on the rifle but I wouldn't want to have to take more time aquiring the target.

Peter M. Eick
April 20, 2014, 03:13 PM
I think they are much faster to get an accurate first shot off. I switched over to them after my M1 Garand and M-14 Experience. Once you learn to look through them and just ignore the rear sight, you just snap the rifle to your shoulder and look at the front sight. I find it much easier and faster since I am lining up only one thing, the front sight blade on target.

AethelstanAegen
April 20, 2014, 04:00 PM
I picked up some brass for reloading and in the bag was a .32 Win special piece of brass. It looked like a piece of .30-30 brass, anyone know if you can make .30-30 out of these?

Most people are generally turning 30/30 into the rarer 32 Win Special. Haha. They're basically the same case with different throat expansion, so I imagine it would be possible to turn 30/30 into 32 Win Special but I've never tried it myself. My '94 is in 32 Winchester Special, so I only ever go the other way.

50 Shooter
April 23, 2014, 10:23 PM
She's here! What a beauty, looks like its brand new off the shelf!

I'll get some pics taken and post them up, you guys are gonna like this piece of art. I can't wait to shoot it now, might have to hit the range again this weekend.

Pointshoot
April 23, 2014, 10:29 PM
Congrats.
Anyone who considers himself a Rifleman has gotta have at least one Win 94 ;) Sweet carrying. Quick handling.

Enjoy your new rifle.

Catshooter
April 24, 2014, 05:44 AM
The 38-55 is the parent case for the 32 Special, the 30-30, the 25-35 and the 219 Zipper. Great rounds all.

The Model 70 Winchester is a great bolt, extremely popular. Don't know the exact numbers, but they made about seven times as many 94s as the 70 though.

Great rifle.

Roadkill
April 24, 2014, 07:56 PM
I just hunt with mine - 1967 mfg

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=797183&size=1

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=817291&size=1

Agsalaska
April 26, 2014, 12:39 AM
You have a 38 year old unfired rifle. I know I am in the minority, but I would NEVER shoot it.

Go to Gunbroker and take a look at some older rifles that have never been fired and compare their prices to like rifles that have been fired. If you need a goos example look at Savage 99. In 15 more years you will have a rifle worth three or four times what it will be worth if you shoot it.

If you want to shoot a 94, buy one that has been shot.


Congrats on the find. Awesome gun.

HOWARD J
April 26, 2014, 12:56 AM
I used a 94 for a number of years---left it out of the safe about 25 years ago---it got water from a pipe & really missed it up--I sold it & went to a 6 MM rem in Rem 700
I wish I had kept some of the reloading equip. as last month my sister gave me a Marlin 336c used for one hunting trip--I always liked the old 30-30 cartridge & now I am back in business---loaded 200 rds in the last 2/3 weeks

50 Shooter
April 27, 2014, 03:16 AM
I don't know, it would be hard to have a gun and not shoot it. It's not like its a valuable collectable, its not a pre 64 or a signed copy. If it was a certain collectable I think I would have a hard time shooting it but its just an off the shelf rifle that at least a few thousand or more were made in just that year.

I doubt it will get more than a few hundred rounds a year thru it and that would be on a good year. So its not like it will be shot out in a year or two, maybe in 50 or so.

Peter M. Eick
April 27, 2014, 02:28 PM
Actually it is easy. One of my 94's is just a backup. I bought it near NIB (out of the box but never fired) and it just sits. My other open sighted one gets shot or the peep sighted one. My third is just a spare so it will probably never get shot in my lifetime.

Agsalaska
April 27, 2014, 06:56 PM
I agree its easy. I do it all of the time. I never shoot the vast majority of my guns. And I think you are discounting the possibility of that gun having a lot of value a little too much. I assure you that gun will bring in a significant amount of money in the near future if not right now. Unless you shoot it. Then it is exactly what you describe.

Il tell you what, I will make you a deal. I will trade you a similar era Winchester 94 in 90+ percent condition plus, say, $200 for that gun.

Say no to the trade. But get my point. :)

50 Shooter
April 27, 2014, 08:02 PM
Man, you guys are killing me! You don't know how bad I want to shoot this rifle! Now I have to think about throwing it in the back of the safe and forgetting about it...

Agsalaska
April 27, 2014, 09:47 PM
Man, you guys are killing me! You don't know how bad I want to shoot this rifle! Now I have to think about throwing it in the back of the safe and forgetting about it...
Excellent! My work here is done.

forward observer
April 28, 2014, 05:23 AM
Man, you guys are killing me! You don't know how bad I want to shoot this rifle! Now I have to think about throwing it in the back of the safe and forgetting about it...


Take it out and shoot it, clean it, take it deer hunting, take care of it, and leave it to your heirs to worry about value.

The Winchester 94 is/was arguably the most popular hunting rifle for most of the 20th century. To date, they've produced appoximately 7 million of them and the bulk of that (about 4.4 million) was produced after 1964. They are still in production by the way.

Your rifle was one of almost 130,000 produced in 1976. Of that 130K, 19,999 were Bicentennial models, most of which probably remain unfired today. My Bicentennial is still in box which is inside the factory shipping carton and after 38 years its value hasn't even kept up with inflation.

Maybe--just maybe if you had the original box, paperwork, hang tags, sales receipt, and proof that the gun had never been fired, in about 30 or 40 years, it might just be worth something to your grandson.

In the meantime it will be going to waste in your safe. I have four 94's and excluding the Bicentennial, I shoot them all--even my 1915 SRC that's close to 80% condition.

Oh, and to the poster who offered $200 plus a 90% gun for your 100% gun, jump on it. The latest edition (35th) of the blue book of gun values---lists a standard Winchester model 94 carbine in 30-30 caliber produced between 1964and 2006 in 100% condition at $425 while one at 90% is valued at $350.

That's only $75 difference---not $200. The main point here is that we are not talking big money to start with

100% generally means NIB, and they don't list a 100% condition unless there are enough in the market place to assign such a grade. The prices quoted in the book are just guidelines, but they are still slightly better than nothing.

Don't put much faith in the prices that dealers ask for used firearms on internet auction sites or gun shows. They are trying to make a buck, and will generally ask 30% to 100% over blue book value and conversely, if they are buying, they will offer you 30 to 50% less than blue book. They do this because there is always somebody out there with more money than knowledge.

Personally, I think you got a very good price on a great little lever gun, but since it's not particularly rare or nor is it a museum piece, go out and have some fun with it while you are able. Remember, you can't shoot it from the grave.

Cheers

50 Shooter
April 28, 2014, 03:19 PM
FO, thanks as that was my thinking on the rifle. I can see both sides of the coin when it comes to the rifle but not shooting it is almost a sin to me. Guns were made to shoot and you reinforced my thinking about the rifle.

I've got ammo, brass, dies and will be looking for bullets, primers and powder. This rifle is going to hit the range and get some shooting done. I want to enjoy it and my son already said he wants to shoot it so what better then to bring it out and have some fun shooting with my boy.

RainDodger
April 28, 2014, 06:05 PM
Good price for a rifle made to shoot. Take forward observer's advice and go shoot it. Take care of it and pass it down. You won't enjoy it in your safe.

I found a pristine Win 94 carbine made in 1942 - granted it wasn't unfired, but it's in superb shape. I thought $500 was a great deal, so I think you did good. Shoot it and enjoy. That's my opinion.

forward observer
April 28, 2014, 07:22 PM
We need pictures of those 94's or it didn't happen! :D

Here's the 1915 saddle ring carbine that I found in a pawn shop back in the mid 1990's. They were asking $140 because they assured me it was pre-64.

The six digit serial number, ladder rear sight, and iron butt plate told me it was probably pre WW I, but I got them down to $100 anyway. I paid up and ran out of the door laughing like I had just won the lottery. The bore is mint.

I've taken a couple of deer with it, but only occasionally take it to the range now since it's about to turn 100 next year. I've got a newer angle eject for hunting.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/forpost_zps2c4bb8ee.jpg

And here's that Bicentennial that I can't shoot for fear of ruining the value---pretty much a waste of a good rifle, but I was young and foolish at the time.
I had to unpack it recently for inspection, so I took a picture.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/forpost_zpsbad1839c.jpg

Cheers

SC Shooter
April 29, 2014, 11:54 AM
The model 94's are great shooters. I have a 1947 and it still shoots great and is a joy to take into the woods.

RainDodger
April 29, 2014, 12:36 PM
Want pictures? Ok. I don't want to get off track from the original thread though. The OP has a nice rifle at a good price!

Here are 2 pics of my 1942 .30WCF that I found a year ago at a gun show. Great shape, good shooter. Blue is excellent, with the only exception being the barrel band. I paid $500 because I wanted it, and it hadn't been all buggered up.

http://www.hotelling.com/m94r.jpg

... and a close-up of the receiver...

http://www.hotelling.com/m94r2.jpg

200Apples
April 29, 2014, 01:20 PM
.

Yeah! While we wait for the OP's pics, here's another picture for you:

My 1922-made '94 scout with my 2014 Ruger Scout! Hee...

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Z63R/Mobile%20Uploads/20140426_195712_zps120c158f.jpg?t=1398567893

/add'l thread veerage...

:-)

tahoe2
May 1, 2014, 02:02 AM
As others have stated, peep sights work well for me, mine was made in 1974 and was also in mint condition. So a few hundred rounds later it will put 6 Sierra Pro Hunter 150 grainers into 2-1/2" @ 100 off hand.

heycods
May 1, 2014, 03:23 AM
was in a pawn shop back in the late 90 s and they had 2 pre 64s, one a 1956 and he other a 1954, guy said take your pick for $425 each, I left with both for $800 have never regreted it. One is very accurate and the other will do 2" at 100yds. I handload for both, one prefers 170gr other likes 150s. I have been thinking of going to peep sites on one so I can try the 125gr HPs in it, The factory sights wont come to point of impact with the 125s.
Tap tap tap OP waiting on pictures ;)

The Bushmaster
May 2, 2014, 11:41 AM
50 Shooter...170 grain SPFN are much better (IM[notso]HO) then 150 grain by far.

I have a M94 .30WCF manu. in 1949 that gives me 1 5/8" three shot groups at 100 yards.

170 grain SPFN Speer Hot-core over 32 grains of W-748. Be careful when crimping as you can collapse the case very easily. Best to use Lee's Factory Crimp Die (FCD).

50 Shooter
May 2, 2014, 06:01 PM
Well, let's see if this works or not. This link http://www.daplane.com/50Shooter/Win94/html/0.htm has a few photos of the rifle.

200Apples
May 2, 2014, 06:40 PM
.
This rifle is going to hit the range and get some shooting done. I want to enjoy it and my son already said he wants to shoot it so what better then to bring it out and have some fun shooting with my boy.

Very few hours we spend living are better than that. My son and I hit the range together whenever our schedules permit (he being just grown up and working).

Hope you don't mind but I grabbed a pic from your link:

http://www.daplane.com/50Shooter/Win94/images/IMAG0347.jpg

Beautiful!

Thanks for the pics!

:-)

50 Shooter
May 2, 2014, 10:38 PM
Glad you liked the pic, she's a beauty.

forward observer
May 4, 2014, 05:28 PM
Nice rifle---you did very well!

FROGO207
May 4, 2014, 09:16 PM
I have a Marlin 336C and 3 WIN 94's. One is a 51, one a 76, and one 82. All shoot well but the 82 looks like it is 200 years old-----Truck gun that was not taken care of at all. FWIW I and all my 30-30's like the 170 RNFP Core Lokt the best with other brands of 170 grains also working better than any 150 grain pill.

Great looking rifle.:D

Doc.Holliday
May 4, 2014, 09:44 PM
Yes I agree with some posts here. The quality of 64 and later 94's wasn't as bad as some have let on and not near as bad as some examples from another Winchester lever clone gun manufacturer from Brazil. IMHO
Doc

hartcreek
May 4, 2014, 10:26 PM
In the late 90s I picked up four pre 64 model 94s......three in .32 Winchester Special and one in 25-35 $250 each. All from the same gunshop. Lee has a 155 grain gas checked RN mold that works perfect for the 30-30.

The Bushmaster
May 5, 2014, 11:33 AM
I also agree with FROGO207...If you have to shoot factory ammunition Remington 170 grain RNFN (or SP) Core-Lokt is the best.

50 Shooter
May 5, 2014, 02:18 PM
I picked up some Win. and Fed. 150 and 170 gr. ammo in a trade. That and picked up brass, dies, primers.... Hope to have it out soon and see how it does, looking for a set of Williams sights after seeing how another board member did with them.

loose noose
May 6, 2014, 01:20 PM
Nice looking rifle their 50, tell me how does the action feel. I had a model 94 made in 1978 with a really stiff action other than that it was really a good shooter. BTW I shot over 500 rounds thru it and the action just never loosened up even after polishing all the internal parts. Hope yours isn't a clone.:D

50 Shooter
May 6, 2014, 03:33 PM
The action is smooth but here's my problem with the charging handle. I have big hands and I can only get two fingers in the handle to operate it. So for those of you with big hands and a lever action, is there a factory handle that's made for big hands?

It would make it easier to cycle the action and get my hand around the stock and trigger finger on the trigger.

200Apples
May 6, 2014, 03:54 PM
.
Off the top of my head, I don't know where, exactly, to begin looking for a bigger lever loop; I don't know the aftermarket in that regard.

Look around the web for a "large-loop lever".

Something like what's on this Rossi:

http://www.galleryofguns.com//ProdImageSm/R92-57006.jpg

50 Shooter
July 22, 2014, 11:16 PM
Well, I finally got the rifle out to the range to shoot it to see how well it worked. Turns out it ran flawlessly, cycled the ammo without any problems.

Put a Williams rear sight on the rifle and found out that its nice but the front needs to be swapped out for something better as the bead covers to much of the target. Adding some more pics of the rifle.

http://www.daplane.com/50shooter/win94/win94_01.jpg

http://www.daplane.com/50shooter/win94/win94_03.jpg

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