New gun?


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lilguy
April 18, 2014, 08:40 PM
A year ago Illinois opened the NFA door a little bit. Allowing folks with C+R licenses to own SBR's. I'd like to have a 308 AR variant built locally but do not understand the steps necessary to do it. It's the chicken /egg thing, do I buy a receiver and then file forms and wait for ok to add barrel or what? Making a mistake can either cost you months of additional wait time or end you up in jail.
All input greatly appreciated.

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Capybara
April 19, 2014, 10:09 PM
Do they allow you to own modern SBRs or only C&R SBRs? If it is C&R SBRs and SBS only, we have the same thing here in California, but good luck on finding them for less than about $2,500.00. The deal is, to be C&R, they must mostly be at least 50 years old or on the C&R list. 50 years ago or more, few people would spend $200.00 to NFA register an SBR or SBS, that was alot of money back then so hence, they are difficult to find today, I have looked for and inquired with a lot of NFA dealers around the country. C&R SBRs and SBS are rare and almost always expensive. Here in California, we cannot buy a C&R or take one we already own and turn it into an SBR because then it loses it's C&R status supposedly, although if we can find one, in theory, we can own it here. Silly, arbitrary laws, AOWs, SBS and SBRs along with suppressors should all be normal Title 1 Firearms. When anyone can own a Desert Eagle in .50 AE or a S&W 500 Magnum, how does a short barreled rifle compare in potential harm to a target? Same with suppressors, how are they "dangerous"? Ridiculous, arcane gun control.

Machine guns, while I vehemently disagree, I can see from a dumb politician's viewpoint how they think that they might do more harm than other NFA items in the wrong hands. But the other NFA items, totally stupid that we still have to do the NFA dance, if we are even allowed them at all in our states.

lilguy
April 19, 2014, 11:20 PM
Illinois allows folks with reinactor membership or a CR license to buy, build or rebarrel a modern SBR.

Akita1
April 23, 2014, 06:59 PM
Build/buy the upper first and file the proper BATFE form (Form 1 to make your own SBR lower, Form 4 to buy one from a dealer). The way I do it is build a pistol lower and file a Form 1. When I get the stamp, I change the buffer/spring/tube/stock (depending on the caliber) on the pistol lower and there's my SBR. I like to tinker so that's my method, likely easier to just buy from the dealer but there are a host of storage, et al issues with the upper while you're waiting for the stamp. The downside to buying the SBR lower is you spend the $ and your dealer holds it until you get the stamp. Ugh.

GarySTL
April 23, 2014, 09:07 PM
I took a stripped lower and had it engraved with my name and location, as the maker of the sbr. Filed the Form 1 and when it came back I added the pistol upper that had been stored off site.

Akita1
April 23, 2014, 11:09 PM
Echo that GarySTL

lilguy
April 25, 2014, 09:29 AM
So, could I buy a lower with serial #, hold it until stamp come and then assemble as SBR.

Could I assemble a standard AR variant with 16in+ barrel wait for stamp
And add short barrel?

How separated does a barrel and receiver have to be to be free of intent trouble?

Willie Sutton
April 25, 2014, 10:17 AM
"So, could I buy a lower with serial #, hold it until stamp come and then assemble as SBR."

Yes, and that's exactly how it's done. Meanwhile you can build it into a non-SBR rifle and enjoy that while you wait for your stamp.



"Could I assemble a standard AR variant with 16in+ barrel wait for stamp and add short barrel?"

Absolutely. That's what we all do. Actually you would probably want a short barrel upper and then keep the 16 inch one too. Makes it easier to go visit a friend out of state without needing to inform BATFE, etc. When it's configured as a normal rifle, even though registered as a SBR, it isn't a SBR. One lower, two uppers, plug and play for the day desired.


"How separated does a barrel and receiver have to be to be free of intent trouble?"

Safest bet is to just not buy the shortie parts until you have the stamp. There's no particular rule you can rely on, and intent is in the eye of the beholder, and you don't want that beholder to be an over zealous prosecutor. The stuff is so common that there's no need to buy it and hold it earlier than you really need it. Build a nice rifle, enjoy it, apply for the stamp, and when it comes buy a shortie upper and plug it on.


Willie

.

wally
April 25, 2014, 10:26 AM
Another option is to build an AR pistol, and buy the stock and carbine buffer tube after you get the stamp.

This way yo can resolve any functional issues while waiting.

If you add a SIG SB-15 "brace" you will have something to give you an idea of how great your SBR will be when the stamp finally arrives.

Madcap_Magician
April 25, 2014, 10:29 AM
Out of curiosity, do you still need to serialize an SBR lower if it starts as a pistol lower?

Willie Sutton
April 25, 2014, 10:31 AM
^ You need to mark it as the manufacturer. I've always reused the original manufacturers serial number though when using a fully completed lower. Generally it's an 80% lower that I've used, so all markings are those I have engraved.

Nice to have "In God We" as your trust name... ;)


Willie

.

wally
April 25, 2014, 10:34 AM
Out of curiosity, do you still need to serialize an SBR lower if it starts as a pistol lower?

IMHO its best to get the engraving done before you fill out the forms, just in case the engraver messes up!

lilguy
April 26, 2014, 02:13 PM
Would someone please explain what gets engraved and where, anyone in particular and why? Is this only if you machine your own receiver? If
I buy a title1 receiver does it need my name on it if it came with a Serial #

Aaron Baker
April 26, 2014, 02:42 PM
There's a sticky that answers a lot of these questions. It's here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=733393

From that sticky:

What are the rules for engraving?
If you build a firearm on a Form 1, there is certain information that must be engraved on the firearm. What you as the manufacturer have to add depends on whether you're starting from scratch or “making” from an already-existing firearm.

If you're making from scratch, you must engrave:

serial number
manufacturer name (either your name or your trust's name)
city and state
caliber
model designation (if assigned)

If you're making from an already-existing firearm, you must engrave:

manufacturer name (either your name or your trust's name)
city and state

You should already have a serial number, model designation and caliber if it's an existing firearm, and the ATF insists that you use the original serial number on your Form 1.

There are requirements for height and depth of engraving. The depth requirement applies to ALL of the information that's being engraved and is .003 inches deep minimum. The height requirement ONLY applies to the serial number, and it's 1/16 of an inch minimum.

This may be done by casting, stamping or engraving.

There are different schools of thought on when to engrave. The engraving does not have to be done until the time of manufacture, which you will be doing after you get the approved tax stamp. However, some folks suggest doing the engraving BEFORE you submit the tax stamp application. The benefit to this is that if your engraver screws up your receiver, then you won't be out of luck—you can choose a different receiver for engraving before you submit your tax stamp application.

As for where to engrave, most people engrave their receivers. However, the rules technically allow the manufacturer's name, city and state to be engraved on the barrel. On an AR15, that means all the barrels on the uppers you use would have to be engraved, which would cost more. On a regular rifle, it might make a bit more sense.

lilguy
April 26, 2014, 03:03 PM
So, I buy a class 1 receiver with a serial # from a local gun shop. Do I need to get any engraving done or do I fill out(which?) form with that # and send in a check? Then wait for stamp and get barrel?

Aaron Baker
April 26, 2014, 10:52 PM
So, I buy a class 1 receiver with a serial # from a local gun shop. Do I need to get any engraving done or do I fill out(which?) form with that # and send in a check? Then wait for stamp and get barrel?

I don't know what you mean by "Class 1." I'm going to assume you meant Title I, and that you're referring to a lower receiver that is already a serialized firearm (as opposed to an 80% lower receiver) but is not registered as a Title II firearm (i.e. not yet an SBR).

If you buy a regular lower receiver from the gun store, you'll fill out the Form 1 (directions in the thread linked above). On that Form 1, you will list the original manufacturer information, and list the original manufacturer's serial number. You don't need to make up a new serial number, and in fact, the ATF forbids it--you must use the one that is already on it.

Now, at some point before you actually assemble your SBR, you must engrave the lower receiver with additional information: your name, city and state. If you're using a trust, it's the trust's name, not your own name.

That can be done before you submit the Form 1, after you submit the Form 1 but before it comes back approved, or after it comes back approved. It's your call.

Go read that stickied thread that I linked all the way through. It really should answer all your questions if you read carefully.

Aaron

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