Finally I have my long range set-up


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zerobarrier
April 19, 2014, 05:32 PM
Hello all,

I have started threads, posted comments and questions about which rifle I should go with, what I should do with it, and how best to load for it. So I figured I would post the final product. I ended up getting a Remington 700 AAC-SD in 308 with a 20" heavy barrel with a 1in10 twist. I installed a timney trigger and set it at 2lb. I was not going to put the trigger in because I did not mind the x-mark pro trigger but since they started a recall I figured I would rather spend $100 on a new better trigger then send the rifle to remington for months. The trigger by the way is awesome way better then factory. I think it turned out great and I think the rifle will be able to shoot out to 1000 yards no problem(the problem would be with me), but mainly will be shot up to 600 yards. Its only missing one thing will two I guess, on monday I have a Wyatts detachable magazine assembly coming which will be installed then we are all done, besides putting a can on it(surefire or gemtech - I like the QD mounts with muzzle breaks) but thats a long way off. Anyways here are some pics.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197498&stc=1&d=1397943129

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197499&stc=1&d=1397943129

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197500&stc=1&d=1397943129

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197501&stc=1&d=1397943129

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back40
April 19, 2014, 05:53 PM
nice looking rig, but your bi-pod is on backwards :D

what kind-of glass? how's she shoot?

alfon99
April 19, 2014, 07:22 PM
Nice! The only thing I noticed is that your scope doesn't seem to be well leveled, but maybe it's just me.

Geno
April 19, 2014, 07:59 PM
Very nice! Congratulations!

Geno

USSR
April 19, 2014, 08:07 PM
I think the rifle will be able to shoot out to 1000 yards no problem

Actually, the problem is your 20" barrel. The .308 is a marginal 1,000 yard round as it is, and then to handicap yourself with the short barrel makes it all the worse. When doing load development, if you find you can reach 2650fps with a 175SMK, then you will be okay.

Don

zerobarrier
April 19, 2014, 09:12 PM
I did notice the bipod was on backwards( I did that on purpose to see if you guys would notice :P ), I threw it on real quick to take those pics. Its back on right now. The scope its level perfectly the whole rifle is on a cant from the bipod not being tightened down. I am using 175 SMK's, have not chronoed it yet though

zerobarrier
April 19, 2014, 09:16 PM
The scope isn't high end, its a Millett LRS-1 6-25x56. I was surprised on how nice it is though, glass is very clear. So far it shoots sub-moa to moa at 200 yards usually right around 1.5in groups, haven't shot it farther yet. I am new to long range shooting so I am working up to 500yards.

zerobarrier
April 19, 2014, 09:43 PM
As for the 20" barrel being to short here is one of the many articles out there that have disproved that you need a 24" or 26" barrel.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/

browningguy
April 19, 2014, 10:31 PM
Except for the part where they claim that compensating for the additional wind drift would be simple. And they stopped at 900 instead of 1000 yards. I wonder which barrels keep the velocity supersonic all the way to 1000?

nastynatesfish
April 19, 2014, 10:48 PM
Good looking rig. I run 175 also but I've got 10" or barrel on you. Haven't cronyed mine yet either maybe Monday. I think houll do fine at 600.
http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w369/tabascoman79/1B12D2FA-068B-4684-BE2A-0566D5231217_1.jpg

Dave P
April 19, 2014, 11:23 PM
Also looks like yer scope is way too far back. When I shoot, my eyeball is pretty close to my trig finger (vertically). Grab hold of that rifle and be one with it - it's not your ugly cousin who you don't want to kiss,

I wish I didn't sell my 20" rem700 years ago (police special, PSS Lite? or something?) nice handy size, and great accuracy at least to a few hundred yards.

Gordon
April 19, 2014, 11:34 PM
1000 yards with a .308 with that scope will probably require 20 MOA built into mounts, just saying. I like the stock and muzzle, you realize the 1-10" twist is for sub sonic heavy bullets? 11.25" twist has pretty well been found to be optimum for up to 200 grain or so bullets at standard velocities. 26" barrel generally are about 200 fps faster than 20" barrels in .308 at the muzzle, it lessens farther out FWIW.

Flatbush Harry
April 20, 2014, 12:36 AM
Nice tactical set-up. Bipod on backwards, scope set too far to rear, but the tactical bolt handle is a plus for when you're wearing kitchen mitts and the muzzle brake will certainly deafen your nearby friends. I would have gotten a Cuisinart or blender instead of a DBM from Wyatt (sketchy operation) but, then, I like my tactical martinis shaken, not blended or stirred.

I have a couple of precision rifles...they lack for toys but they shoot well. I do have QR bases and rings on my .375 H&H Mag hunting rifle but I got them to switch scopes from 3-9x40 to 1.5-6x24 or express sights as situation required. QR mounts on a tactical rifle with no BUIS is at best an affectation.

As we used to say in my old neighborhood, "Chacun a' son mishegas".

YMMV but probably shouldn't.

FH

back40
April 20, 2014, 12:52 AM
I do have QR bases and rings on my .375 H&H Mag hunting rifle but I got them to switch scopes from 3-9x40 to 1.5-6x24 or express sights as situation required. QR mounts on a tactical rifle with no BUIS is at best an affectation.


i believe the OP is referring to a QD mount for the can, not the scope.

Skylerbone
April 20, 2014, 01:13 AM
Looks like you're on your way, next accessory might should be a one-piece mount with MOA built in as suggested. That would also take care of your eye relief which does indeed look a wee bit off. Got no real room for criticism, I don't poke holes much past 300 myself. Good luck and congratulations.

zerobarrier
April 20, 2014, 01:25 AM
The eye relief is set perfect for me, I rest my cheek back a little farther, its what is comfortable for me. This way I don't have to jam my neck forward at 25x while prone or sitting. I believe my LOP is at 14.5" instead of the standard 13.5", also why it looks like the scope is to far back. The scope has internal moa adjustment of 140moa, shouldn't need the 20moa base

zerobarrier
April 20, 2014, 09:32 AM
OK I looked at the scope and took your advice and moved it forward about 1", it looks like I still see full field of view now and can't go any farther. Thanks for the tip guys. Also I fixed the bipod even though I put it on backwards as a joke to see if anyone picked up on it, but I don't think some of you realized I was being a smart-ass.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197519&stc=1&d=1398000908

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197520&stc=1&d=1398000908

zerobarrier
April 20, 2014, 09:39 AM
I also think I am going to return the Wyatts det mag. I kind of like the way it looks and feels now. Plus I tend to grab it and carry it right where the mag will be so that will get in my way.

cammogunner
April 20, 2014, 02:38 PM
hey zero that is a work of art you have there thanks for those qwsome pics where did you manage to find one and is that stock from the factory?

USSR
April 20, 2014, 03:38 PM
As for the 20" barrel being to short here is one of the many articles out there that have disproved that you need a 24" or 26" barrel.

Sorry, zerobarrier, but I can find articles saying the earth is flat. I shot in 1,000 yard competition for 6 years, so I know what the .308 is capable of and not capable of, having seen it up front and personal. Guys having factory 20" barrels have a tough time reaching 1k with any accuracy due to the bullet going subsonic well before that. Exterior ballistics is simply velocity, BC, and altitude/atmospheric pressure. As I said before, if you can get the 175SMK up to about 2650fps, then you will be alright.

Don

zerobarrier
April 20, 2014, 08:41 PM
Cammogunner its a Bell & Carlson A5 stock. Aftermarket

dubbleA
April 20, 2014, 10:52 PM
I am not crazy about the stock, muzzle brake, the mounts, scope nor the KRG bolt knob but hey it's not my rifle. Can't do much about said items other than the knob. PM me about replacing that plastic knob thingy with something just as functional but a tad better looking.

The best thing you can do with your setup is is to shoot it and shoot it some more. After several hundred rounds down range you should know your limitations.

JoelSteinbach
April 22, 2014, 09:56 PM
Great looking gun best of luck with it

Lindy7443
April 22, 2014, 10:56 PM
Youll enjoy the Precision Armamentbrake...perceived recoil is definitely less...Enjoy the looks you get at the range from side blast, haha

zerobarrier
April 23, 2014, 01:59 AM
Ok I decided to keep the Wyatts detachable mag. It actually works really well. It dropped right in, no fitting required. I also cut the sunsade down by 2", that thing was huge. Took it from 5" to 3". The brake makes it feel like a 223, well worth it.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197619&stc=1&d=1398232817

joustin
April 23, 2014, 04:16 AM
I like it, I have a Savage Hog Hunter with a 4-12x42 scope, people have been pretty negative about your rifle. I wanted a 20 inch barrel for many reasons, mainly there is very little room to stretch out past 600 yards here in East TN unless you are punching paper. About the only places with a clear 600 yards view is a power line cut out lol

JoelSteinbach
April 23, 2014, 09:22 AM
I have had this one for about 15 years, It originally had a 30" hart barrel, but when I took off the micrometer sights and put on a scope I had it cut to 26". Stolle Panda Action, Hart barrel, chambered in 308 , lone wolf stock, Jewell trigger set at 2 oz., Weaver 36 power scope, It was originally built for Palma.

USSR
April 23, 2014, 11:09 AM
Nice stick, Joel.

Don

JoelSteinbach
April 23, 2014, 04:55 PM
Thanks Don BTW it weighs in at 13.5 lbs

Potatohead
April 23, 2014, 05:28 PM
I like it, I have a Savage Hog Hunter with a 4-12x42 scope, people have been pretty negative about your rifle. I wanted a 20 inch barrel for many reasons, mainly there is very little room to stretch out past 600 yards here in East TN unless you are punching paper. About the only places with a clear 600 yards view is a power line cut out lol
True-

A buddy of mine has some land East of Fayetteville and we struggle to get a 75 yarder set up. Some rolling hills you all have up there.

Doc68
April 28, 2014, 06:07 PM
Guarantee you I can keep a 208 AMAX supersonic to 1300 yards out of my 20in barrel. Just gotta play around a bit.

USSR
April 28, 2014, 08:14 PM
Guarantee you I can keep a 208 AMAX supersonic to 1300 yards out of my 20in barrel. Just gotta play around a bit.

You ever shot heavy for caliber bullets in a .308? I did extensive load development with 190SMK's in the .308, and there are only one or two powders suitable for heavy bullet use in the .308. With the little case capacity of the .308 you cannot use the slow burning powders that you would normally use, as you simply cannot get enough powder in the case. If you go with the medium burn rate powders, you bump up against high pressure before you reach the velocity needed to keep the bullet supersonic. And then, to restrict yourself to a 20" barrel - personally, I wouldn't be issuing any "guarantees" if I was you.;) Reaching 2400fps might be a bridge too far with a stubby barrel.

Don

d2wing
April 30, 2014, 07:36 PM
I like your rifle shoot it and give us a report. Nice.

zerobarrier
May 5, 2014, 04:56 PM
Ok so here is how she shoots with the two loads that shot the best out of my initial work up. Pretty good I think, especially since I am pretty new to precision shooting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198029&stc=1&d=1399323501

Pointshoot
May 11, 2014, 12:19 PM
Well as the OP can tell, LR precision guys can be pretty blunt in their equipment evaluations. IMO that's good. Why? It can save you time & money if something you have or are doing is outta whack. (Of course, opinions will differ on subtle matters which are often a matter of personal preferences.)

I have a 20" barrel .308 rifle - a Rem 700 LTR. Its main purpose is for shooting out to around 600 yds plus or minus. (I have other rifles for shooting further.) Yes, you can shoot a 20in barrel rifle out there at 1,000 yds but it comes down to the specific equipment you have and what safe pressure loads you have worked up. Your rifle may or may not do it accurately on a consistent basis out that far with the loads you're shooting, especially with the wind blowing. As others have stated, you need the velocity up there enough so that the bullet isn't in the unstable range by the time it gets out to the target.

I was reading a different forum thread recently on this very topic. The very experienced long range precision guys basically said to become a master shooter with your 20" barrel rifle first at 600 yds, before seriously attempting to stretch that out to 1,000. In getting to that level of proficiency, you'll get the experience to know if your particular rifle can consistently go the longer distance. Often guys find that a different rifle with longer barrel does the longer range work with less time & effort expended.

I am not an expert. I just try to take in the observations and advice of those who are very experienced playing the long range precision game.

zerobarrier
May 11, 2014, 11:23 PM
Well as the OP can tell, LR precision guys can be pretty blunt in their equipment evaluations. IMO that's good. Why? It can save you time & money if something you have or are doing is outta whack. (Of course, opinions will differ on subtle matters which are often a matter of personal preferences.)

I have a 20" barrel .308 rifle - a Rem 700 LTR. Its main purpose is for shooting out to around 600 yds plus or minus. (I have other rifles for shooting further.) Yes, you can shoot a 20in barrel rifle out there at 1,000 yds but it comes down to the specific equipment you have and what safe pressure loads you have worked up. Your rifle may or may not do it accurately on a consistent basis out that far with the loads you're shooting, especially with the wind blowing. As others have stated, you need the velocity up there enough so that the bullet isn't in the unstable range by the time it gets out to the target.

I was reading a different forum thread recently on this very topic. The very experienced long range precision guys basically said to become a master shooter with your 20" barrel rifle first at 600 yds, before seriously attempting to stretch that out to 1,000. In getting to that level of proficiency, you'll get the experience to know if your particular rifle can consistently go the longer distance. Often guys find that a different rifle with longer barrel does the longer range work with less time & effort expended.

I am not an expert. I just try to take in the observations and advice of those who are very experienced playing the long range precision game.
Pretty much I have decided to keep this rifle at the max range of 600 yards(given the advice from others on here). Once I get proficient at that range I will the buy a 300 win mag to go out to 1000 yards - probably 1-2 years from now.

taliv
May 11, 2014, 11:43 PM
read jwroland's threads in competition. he started shooting 600 yard f-class in feb or march, shot a few matches then went to 1000. did just fine.

1000 is nothing to be afraid of. nothing magical. just takes a little more attention to wind. of course, if you're not hitting what you want at 600, you will be frustrated at 1000.

zerobarrier
June 9, 2014, 04:49 PM
I got out to the range with this today and shot out to 500yds. I am very happy with how it shoots. The target on the right is using my ballistic calculator to get out to 500 then the one on the left is after I made adjustments. The random 223 holes are me seeing if I could hit the targets with my AR. I got 3 hits out of 5. Wind was about 5mph. Edit: I forgot to say These were shot using a harris bipod and no rear bag, just my shoulder

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199451&stc=1&d=1402346940

taliv
June 9, 2014, 05:00 PM
nice shooting!

Geno
June 9, 2014, 05:58 PM
Impressive shooting! Dang! Good work, and thanks for sharing.

Geno

zerobarrier
June 9, 2014, 06:26 PM
Thanks guys. I know some people didn't agree with or like the way I set up the rifle but you can't deny how good it shoots. This is my first long range rifle only the second time I have shot out to 500yds. Its safe to say I have the long range shooting itch. I even bought a leupold sx-1 ventana 20-60x 80mm spotting scope to make life easier. I can see my bullet holes at 500yds without getting off the bench - awesome.

redneck2
June 9, 2014, 08:24 PM
Once I get proficient at that range I will the buy a 300 win mag to go out to 1000 yards - probably 1-2 years from now. You can do that and it will obviously work. However, you might consider one of the 6.5's or a 7mm Remington Mag (which is what I did). If you look at the BC of the 162 AMAX's, it's pretty impressive. Better BC and less recoil than the 300. Just a thought.

If I was starting over, it would probably be a .260. My S-I-L is setting up his 6BR for 1k. Good BC and zero recoil.

Nice rifle and really nice shooting. Ought to be all kinds of happy with that.

zerobarrier
June 9, 2014, 08:40 PM
Nice rifle and really nice shooting. Ought to be all kinds of happy with that.

Thanks. I was worried at first when people told me i should have gotten a different scope, rings, and base. I started to think maybe they were right because my groups at first were not the best at 100yds, but once I got use to it and fired some rounds thru it they began to tighten up. From about a day after I started this thread until today I was kind of unhappy about the rifle, but no more. I think the Millett is a good mid level scope. It just needed a good break in and I needed more time with it. I have about 170ish rounds thru it. I did this with just a bipod and no rear bag, never used bags or those fancy shooting sleds. They are just not for me, I think they take the fun out of it.

strambo
June 9, 2014, 08:44 PM
Nice shooting! Those groups look great, the vertical spread looks well under .5 MOA so that seems to be an excellent load...don't mess with it! No reason why that rifle can't go to 800 no problem.

When you shoot that barrel out, re-barrel it with a 260 Rem or 6.5 CM.

redneck2
June 10, 2014, 05:48 PM
Actually, I never shoot nearly as well with a sled as I do off bags. I bought a sled a few years ago, complete with a remote trigger. Zero direct contact. I can shoot better off bags.

If you look at the best bench rest shooters, they let the rifle free recoil. Sleds are the exact opposite.

Georgiaboy61
June 10, 2014, 06:45 PM
It is correct that a "short" barrel of 20 inches can yield accurate results on target, but you do surrender some muzzle velocity - around 50fps/inch of barrel lost - by going with a shorter barrel. You also may be in for some heavy muzzle blast due to partially-unburned propellant escaping at the muzzle. I like at least a 22" barrel in a bolt-action target rifle - preferably 24-26 inches - but of course your mileage may vary.

Georgiaboy61
June 10, 2014, 06:55 PM
Re: "The scope isn't high end, its a Millett LRS-1 6-25x56. I was surprised on how nice it is though, glass is very clear."

Millett - although regarded as a budget or mid-range manufacturer - makes a fine scope (I don't work for them or anything like that). I own a number of fairly high-end optics, including products from Zeiss, Leupold and Nightforce - but my two Millett scopes perform equally-as-well. My Millett LRS tracks more-accurately (as measured in the tall target test) than my NF NSX, and while the glass in the LRS isn't up to the level of a Zeiss, it is actually quite good - at least as good as the lenses in my Leupold. The Milletts also have features, i.e. illuminated reticles, often not found in mid-price range scopes. The sole thing I could fault on my Milletts is that the mil-dots could be a bit more crisp on my TRS model (the dots are fine on my LRS). A buddy of mine is an ex-Green Beret scout-sniper, and he speaks very highly of Millett as a good value - in particular, he praises the brand as being very rugged and able to stand up to abuse. That's been true in my case - my Millett LRS has done great for me atop my 338 LM - and taken me well out past 1000 yards without any problem.

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