Need an off duty gun


April 4, 2004, 09:21 PM
Hello all,

I need to pick up an off duty/back up weapon that has to be in .40. It needs to an approved weapon, so think of the big manufacturers. Only thing I can think off at this time is the Glock 27 and Sig P239. I'd like a HK P2000sk but can't wait that long and choose not to spend $800. From those of you who have both, please tell me your favorite from the 27 and P239 (don't start a brand war please). I am aware of the noticeable differences like DA/DAO, weight and capacity and do not care about brand name as it will only be used to save my butt, I also dont care about the method of arms. My sidearm is a Beretta 96, and I dont want the 9000 even if I can interchange mags. Thanks for the help.

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April 4, 2004, 09:29 PM
do you have a list of the approved guns, or do you *only* want recommendations between those two?

April 4, 2004, 09:31 PM
I find the Glock 27 to be a fine little carry piece, but how about a Kahr MK40 or a polymer version of same?

Brian Williams
April 4, 2004, 09:56 PM
What is your carry gun on duty???

April 4, 2004, 11:25 PM
I'd say a Kahr.

April 5, 2004, 12:42 AM
Between the G27 and the 239, I'd personally take the G27. Honestly, I'd just go ahead and get the G23... The grip isn't that much longer, I prefer the G27 with the finger extension anyway. And you won't notice the difference in barrel length or weight.

And on the SIG, I think there's only about one ounce difference between the 239 and the 229 and I'd rather have the additional rounds even off duty.

Can you get a LE discount using company letterhead for this gun? That might make things a bit easier for you.

April 5, 2004, 01:22 AM
i just carry my 96 while off duty. a good holster and belt can really make it disappear. but if you just want something smaller i'd go with the kahr too.

but between your two choices i'd go glock, but would prefer the g23 in .40 because it is the same size as my g19 which is my "summer gun"

April 5, 2004, 08:40 AM
My dept. had a list of approved "off-duty" carry guns. Ask the range officer(s) for opinions. Why does it have to be a .40? Pretty big I would think for summer carry.

April 5, 2004, 09:33 AM
If you don't like the Beretta 9000S, then I'd look at the CZ RAMI if thickness is the problem with the Beretta (I liked the 9000S but it's absurdly thick IMHO).

The RAMI is about the same overall size as the 9000S but a good bit thinner.

If these are too big/heavy I think the Kahr PM40 is your only other choice.


April 5, 2004, 10:00 AM
summer carry for me is the KT P-11....

of the choices I would Take neither:D

The Rami or Kahr would be better choices IMHO..

April 5, 2004, 10:26 AM
There are a bunch of factors you haven't mentioned, all of which will affect your gun choice.

1. You state that this gun has to do double duty: as a backup when on duty, and as a primary when off duty. So, how do you plan on carrying it? The same way for both uses, or differently depending on whether it's primary or BUG? For example: if you plan on ankle or pocket carry, the G27 is practical, the 239 is less so (bigger), but the ideal would be something like the Kahr PM40 (although this kicks rather harder than the other two). If you plan on OWB/IWB carry, the Kahr's smaller size becomes less useful, and the G27 or 239 becomes more viable.

2. Do you want to duplicate the sights on your duty weapon? I try to do this with my main/BUG combinations, so as to get used to a consistent sight picture. With the G27 or 239, this is not difficult: with the Kahr, it's more tricky (fewer sight options).

3. Does this weapon have to be department-approved? Do you have to qualify with it? If yes, the G27/239 will be much easier to handle than the smaller PM40.

4. Will anyone other than yourself (e.g. wife or SO) have to handle this weapon? If so, the PM40 becomes much less desirable, as it's MUCH harder to control such a tiny weapon with the .40's recoil. The G27 and 239 are more controllable, but not much more so... maybe a heavier gun than either would be more controllable?

There are other issues, but these should suffice to give food for thought. Your eventual choice is going to have to be a compromise, based on the specific issues you face. I went with the G27, and haven't regretted it - super accurate, lightweight, and ultra-reliable. It shoots better for me than the SIG 239 - although, in .45 ACP, the SIG P220 shoots better for me than the Glocks! Go figure... :rolleyes:

April 5, 2004, 11:43 AM
If your off duty why does the gun have to approved? If it's going to be your defence gun and your staking your life on it. I feel it's your call as to what gun you carry. There is nothing wrong with a Glock I have a G23 but I also have a Kimber Ultra Carry II and a Kimber Tac Pro II both can get the job done also.

April 5, 2004, 01:28 PM
Don't you hate it when people ask you a bunch of questions in a post and then they don't reply to clear anything up?:rolleyes:

April 5, 2004, 06:55 PM
Thank you for the comments.
I use to carry a bug because of the convenience, but when it came time to possibly using it, I regretted that being my next best option. I would rather have a decent size gun that’s harder to conceal than an easy to conceal hope its good enough pocket gun. The gun does have to be approved/qualify, CZ and Kahrs are not on the list. Off the top of my head I think I am giving the option of S&W, Walther, HK, Sig, Beretta, Glock, maybe one more. I don’t need it to be similar to duty gun in sight picture or action and no one else will be shooting my gun. I am trying to use it for both back up and off duty when needed.

To make it easy. If those of you who have both the P239 and 27 would like to tell me which seems better for this application, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you

April 5, 2004, 07:13 PM
I'd carry the same gun...or the same type of gun my duty gun. Findin'
yourself suddenly up to yerazz in alligators ain't the best time to find out that you're unfamiliar with the manual of arms, if ya know what I mean.
If it's MY life on the line...I want to feel a familiar butt when I grab for it.:p

Just my nickel's worth...


April 5, 2004, 11:01 PM
I would think that one of the S&W compacts would make the best choice (no flames please!). The Smiths have the same safety system you are used to which is not at all a bad idea under stress. Links to a few choices are below...

Don't let the retail prices scare you. I've seen 'em for much less.


April 6, 2004, 04:29 AM
I got to agree with Tuner, but if it's between the two listed go with the Glock, more rounds, simple operation. Draw, point, bang, bang, bang.

My two copper bits.

April 6, 2004, 12:24 PM
You don't mention if your '96 is DAO or not. Mine is, so I make sure my off duty gun is also. Identical manual of arms. It's not a good idea to be switching from SA/DA to DAO and back again. Keep it constant. No worrys about safeties or shifting trigger placement. All training is relevant for both guns. My current off duty guns are: H&K USPcLEM (authorized), Kahr k40 (not authorized) and KT P11 (not authorized). All are DAO as is my '96. Only the KT is carried in an non belt holster (it's usually in a pocket holster). It would be an excellent ankle gun.

April 6, 2004, 12:36 PM
<perk> pocket holster??:D

Why isnt the Kahr authorized?

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