12-ga bushing throwing up to 25.5 gr 800-x (data calls for 24.5) - problem?


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IMtheNRA
April 24, 2014, 10:03 PM
I set out to try a recipe on Hodgdon's site, which calls for a range of 20 to 24.5 grains of 800-x, depending on what velocity the reloader wants.

At 24.5 grains, which was my goal, the pressure is listed at 7,800 psi and velocity is 1250 fps.

During my test batch of 25 rounds, now that the powder is settled in the bottle, the bushing is throwing a huge range of charges, 24.3 grains to 25.5 grains of 800-x. This powder does not meter well, and the bushing is semi-home-made, as I enlarged a smaller bushing using a cone-shaped grinding bit on my drill. I'm sure that's not helping matters in terms of charge consistency.

I am using the new style gray Winchester AA hulls, 1 1/8 oz #9 shot, Winchester 209 primers, and Claybuster wads CB 1118-12 (substitute for Winchester WAA12). This is exactly the set of components in Hodgdon's data and I departed from this recipe only in my powder charge.

I am wondering if the shells that are overcharged by up to 1.0 grain are dangerous in my Remington 1100 (2 3/4 chamber), or if this is within the margin of safety comfort zone, if there is such a thing in 12-gauge reloading.

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JimKirk
April 24, 2014, 10:28 PM
I use 800X for a 20 ga load ... it does not meter very well at all... I ended up changing bushings around until I hit an average charge of what my data called for ... I am sure that an over charge is not really good for your gun... SAAMI calls for maximum average pressure of 12 Ga to be 11,500 psi ... no way to know what an overcharge would yield other than testing on some good lab equipment...

243winxb
April 24, 2014, 10:30 PM
7800 psi is low. If the crimp is good, I would go with it.

rcmodel
April 24, 2014, 10:47 PM
I would drill & tap the bushing for a set-screw so you can screw the end into the bushing to get the charge happy medium you should strive to get.

1.0 grain over in a shotgun charge is kinda a big deal, in my opinion.

Pressure can spike unexpectedly as pressure raises, and that could ruin your whole day, and your shotgun.

rc

243winxb
April 24, 2014, 10:53 PM
7800 psi in a gas gun. Make sure load will work the 1100 action.

IMtheNRA
April 24, 2014, 11:04 PM
What do you mean? The load could be too *light*?

243winxb
April 24, 2014, 11:10 PM
The 1100 needs about 8000 psi to work the action. A 3" chambered barrel may need more, if it only has 1 gas port hole. Slow 800x powder vs faster 700x powder. Check the same velocity and compare pressure for each load.

IMtheNRA
April 24, 2014, 11:20 PM
Oh, I see. Having checked my previous, faster, powder data (700-x), I was getting loads of at least 9,000 psi.

According to Hodgdon's 800-x data, 21.5 grains produces 6,500 psi, 23 grains produces 7,100 psi, while my intended charge of 24.5 produces 7,800

Since some of my overcharges are as much as 25.5 grains, it is tempting to extrapolate a pressure guess. However, I doubt pressure changes are perfectly linear, so I'll I'll abstain from such wild-ass guesses, tempting as they may be :-)

243winxb
April 24, 2014, 11:24 PM
Better safe than sorry.

blarby
April 25, 2014, 03:10 PM
I would drill & tap the bushing for a set-screw so you can screw the end into the bushing to get the charge happy medium you should strive to get.


Thats great advice right there !

oneounceload
April 25, 2014, 03:32 PM
I am wondering if the shells that are overcharged by up to 1.0 grain are dangerous in my Remington 1100 (2 3/4 chamber)

It might

Why not just buy another bushing for your reloader? They run a few bucks

Steve C
April 25, 2014, 06:40 PM
Shotgun reloading isn't as precise as loading for metallic cartridges. A +/- of 1 grain will not change the load enough to drastically change the ammo's performance but one should not exceed the maximum charge weight.

One usually goes to the bushing chart to find the powder charge that most closely approximates the amount desired without exceeding it. If you are using the correct bushing that supposed to throw 24.5grs or less but is throwing 25.5 instead simply obtain the next lower size bushing. If you selected the bushing by actually measuring powder drop rather than using the chart which generally lists the maximum powder drop and usually delivers slightly under that amount then go back to the chart and get a proper bushing. Of course in you have an adjustable powder and shot charge bar then adjust it down to throw the right charge.

oneounceload
April 25, 2014, 10:10 PM
However, ESPECIALLY with MEC bushings - they NEVER come close to the chart which is why a scale is paramount

Vol46
April 25, 2014, 11:26 PM
I agree - Mec bushings rarely throw the " published" weight, & some can be pretty far off. However, most of the ones I use are a lot more consistent than yours.
The " cone shaped" cavity might be part of your inconsistency problem. Funnel or step shaped bushings will often throw more consistent charges if the widest part of the opening is at the bottom end -there is less chance that part of the charge will stay in the bushing after the charge bar slides out of the way & allows the powder to drop.

IMtheNRA
April 25, 2014, 11:41 PM
Interesting... I'll insert the bushing with the wide end of the funnel down to see if that improves charge consistency. Right now, I'm getting a range of 1.2 grains of 800-x! (24.3 to 25.5 grains)

gamestalker
April 26, 2014, 12:46 AM
A 7,800 psi recipe wouldn't have me all that concerned with a variation like that, if it was a higher pressure load I would probably feel differently though. If it were me, I would try a few and see how they do. I personally don't see any reason to anticipate a catastrophic event, more than likely nothing out of the ordinary will happen.

GS

Peter M. Eick
April 26, 2014, 08:18 AM
If you are throwing one grain over, just sleeve the bushing. Cut some medical tape to fit and put it on the inside of the bushing and throw a bunch of charges then adjust.

With a bit of effort you can get them spot on.

I went to a universal charge bar and love it. I just turn the screws to get the weight I want with any powder/lead.

243winxb
April 26, 2014, 12:14 PM
gamestalker +1. Also, i bet there is not a full 1 1/8 oz of shot being loaded. Less shot = lower pressure. Most charge bars drop light. Magnum shot is lighter in weight then standard Lawarance brand shot. Antimony used in magnum shot makes each pellet lighter and harder than standard shot. Hard pellets deform less. Not a big deal till your shooting Skeet with the 410. Then every pellet counts. If 800X was a ball powder i would be afraid of pressure spikes, but its not. Fine in my 20 ga O/U and handguns. Just watch for bridging when loading pistol.

gamestalker
April 26, 2014, 05:11 PM
243winxb, ya, I've weighted shot bars in the past and they have always been light with few exceptions, such as with plated #4 loads.

I think many will disagree, but I love the 410 for dove hunting. I got hooked on it about 12 or so yrs. ago with 296 loads, #8 shot, and 3" hulls.

GS

oneounceload
April 26, 2014, 06:11 PM
It isn't his shot that is light, but his powder drops that are the issue. He needs to get a few bushings on either side and weigh and then use the one that is closest without going over.

wild willy
April 26, 2014, 10:23 PM
How solid is your bench?When you size your shells is there a big difference in the force needed to size.Fired same gun different gun?I don't load a lot of shotshells anymore but years ago I shot a lot of trap and once for whatever reason I got anal about trying to get consistent powder charges.I've forgot some things but the press has to be solid If you get a shell thats hard to size or you let the handle slip charges will be different.You have to run the shell thru the complete reloading sequence.You can't get all the same but 1.2 seems like a lot.I tried a couple different powder baffle didn't seem to help any

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