Best way of protecting yourself


PDA






Hunter2011
April 25, 2014, 05:11 AM
Let me just say it as it is. I am not Bruce Lee. I am over 40 and getting older by the day. There is no way I can take on a big built 25 year old guy.
What is the best and most effective weapon/tool I can get to protect myself with?
I know what it is, a nice pistol. That I allready have. But what if you know the guy coming for you just want to kick the S out of you? I will not feel justified in pulling out my pistol. That may become a legal challenge I would rather not have. To own a gun legally is difficult enough allready in my country.
What can you legally use against such a attack that can really put the attacker down without killing him or putting him in a wheelchair? I will only draw my pistol as a very last resort.

Such situations can easily happen. Road rage, the guy was just dumped by his wife, add the two together and you could very easily be in just such a situation, that may even turn out to be life threatening.

If you enjoyed reading about "Best way of protecting yourself" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ColtPythonElite
April 25, 2014, 05:27 AM
Pepper spray is a good tool.

ugaarguy
April 25, 2014, 06:42 AM
There's no way for us to give you good advice on non-firearm weapons since you haven't told us where you live, nor what is actually legal in your country. We need more information to help you.

Hunter2011
April 25, 2014, 06:56 AM
I do realise that. I feel it is a question I should have rather asked on a local forum. But let me answer as far as I can.
I am in South Africa. You are allowed to protect yourself, even with deadly force. But I would prefer not to pull out my pistol if there are other ways to deter an attacker.
I'm not talking about a BG kicking down your door at 2 am in the morning. But more about just normal confrontations.

tiamat
April 25, 2014, 10:01 AM
I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but the best weapon you can get is the one you already have, and it's between your ears.

Learn not to put yourself in bad situations. Practice honing your situational awareness. Be vigilant.

hso
April 25, 2014, 10:11 AM
without killing him or putting him in a wheelchair

Pepper spray or Taser (real Taser, not some stun gun).

As said, the best thing to do is to avoid situations/locations that might put you at risk, deescilate what you can't avoid, flee from what you can't deescilate. If all that fails use a less lethal system like pepper spray and/or Taser.

bikerdoc
April 25, 2014, 10:24 AM
Second to practicing Situational awareness and avoidance, how about becoming proficient with a cane?

Hunter2011
April 25, 2014, 11:00 AM
Second to practicing Situational awareness and avoidance, how about becoming proficient with a cane?
I can look into this as well. I have never owned one, don't even know what to buy

Carl Levitian
April 25, 2014, 11:25 AM
[I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but the best weapon you can get is the one you already have, and it's between your ears.

Learn not to put yourself in bad situations. Practice honing your situational awareness. Be vigilant.]


^^^This pkus 10.

I made the discovery as I got older, that 99.9% of trouble can be avoided with a little bit of common sense behavior and for thought in daily life. There's a lot of wisdom in the old Masai proverb that Teddy Roosevelt quoted; "Speak softly, carry a big stick, and you will go far."

Corpral_Agarn
April 25, 2014, 11:43 AM
canes and walking sticks can be good tools but a cane can make you more of a target (perceived weaker than others?).

craftsman
April 25, 2014, 01:01 PM
Go with the CS Blackthorn cane. Looks mean enough that they won't bother you. I'm 63 and never picked on when that is with me ... just looks nasty. There's an SAP baseball cap oth there - whack someone with that will leave a mark and is totally not expected. Pepper spray is also good.

Do not discount a bandana handkerchief (see my book "Birang Silat: The Handkerchief Dance" - using it as a flexible weapon) ... and wearing steel-toed boots or sneakers ... 'nuff said!

CWL
April 25, 2014, 01:11 PM
Look into a local boxing club. These aren't as demanding as say a MMA or other martial arts dojo designed for kids and young people and fancy (useless) kicking. Most people don't know how to punch, and more importantly block & counterpunch. You'll develop your ability to watch for opponent moves. You'll learn footwork and develop stamina. Best of all, you'll stay off the ground, which isn't where you want to be if there is more than one attacker.

Carry a small mag light. Legal in every country I've been to and useful as a fist load. If you get specialized training with it, you can do some amazing disarms and control techniques.

Carl Levitian
April 25, 2014, 01:49 PM
Carry a small mag light. Legal in every country I've been to and useful as a fist load. If you get specialized training with it, you can do some amazing disarms and control techniques.
__________________

Excellent point! Any real world tool or item can be used as a force multiplier, and inflict real damage. But they are not considered a weapon in the real sense of the word, and keeps he risk of law suits after the fact down to a minimum.

Minimag, metal pen, tire pressure gauge all work great.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3694/11950210504_41b5c97371_c.jpg

GLOOB
April 25, 2014, 07:06 PM
I am in South Africa. You are allowed to protect yourself, even with deadly force. But I would prefer not to pull out my pistol if there are other ways to deter an attacker.

Last time someone approached me with road rage, he chased me and cut me off with his car, traffic was blocking me from behind. I rolled down the window a little and tried to talk with him, but he didn't want to have a conversation. He kept shouting and cussing and beating on my car door, yelling for me to get out. Damn, that didn't work. I didn't want to bump chests and he had me blocked in. I reckoned he was just blowing off steam AND there were plenty of witnesses AND I can handle myself just fine AND my car at that time was a POS, anyway. So I sat there, calm as a cucumber, just thinking of how to defuse the situation. In a stroke of genius, I decided to act scared. I raised my left hand up to shield my face and did my best to cower. Even though I had already rolled the window up and the guy was unarmed.

Wow, that produced faster results than anything else I can imagine. The guy is immediately confused. He actually looks over his shoulder, to see if there's someone else coming up behind him. And then he thinks... about all the witnesses in the cars behind me. He realizes that the way I'm acting, he's clearly the aggressor against an unwilling victim. I see the realization hit him, along with fear. Fear that he is going to get himself arrested. He let out a final curse and hastily returned to his car and drove away.

I've been surprise ambushed by a road rager who followed me to my destination. While I was walking to my destination, he ran over and shoved me. It got physical, and I was luckily the one in better shape and with better skills, and no one was injured. As superficially satisfying as it was to embarrass the guy in front of his wife and the crowd of people that just got off the train just 20 feet away, it was way more satisfying watching the change go over the guy in the first scenario. The look on his face was priceless. And it didn't rely on luck.... I mean, you never know who you can handle just by superficial appearance. In the latter scenario, the aggressor sure thought he had the better of me, having at least 3-4 inches in height and 30 pounds on me.

In a situation where you do not feel your life or health is in imminent danger, be sure to consider all of your options.

Deltaboy
April 25, 2014, 08:09 PM
Second to practicing Situational awareness and avoidance, how about becoming proficient with a cane?
Add a good knife and a cane.

GLOOB
April 25, 2014, 09:12 PM
I have to add that I have been on the other end of the "fear" response.

One time I was walking in a large crowd with my GF. I thought I felt something, so I turned around. The Caucasian male behind me immediately fell to the ground and raised his arms over his face as if to protect himself.

I was so confused, I forgot why I even turned around. To the crowd of people around us, it probably looked like I was trying to hurt the guy. My GF was confused as heck, no doubt. I backed away from the man, and he got up and quickly disappeared into the crowd. That's when my GF noticed my backpack was open. Her wallet was missing.

JShirley
April 30, 2014, 10:26 PM
You want, first, a clear mind and situational awareness.

After that, you need a range of tools to fit the particular situation. Even for obvious self-defense, a firearm is not always the best choice. When the threat is fire, I want a fire extinguisher, so to speak.

srtolly
April 30, 2014, 10:50 PM
Train for situational awareness. I carry a cane when I can. I'm 50 now and there is some good training available for defending yourself with everyday items. The metal pen is always in a pocket as well as s knife. I can't carry a firearm on company business so these are what I usually have (it seems I work a lot lately).

rcmodel
May 1, 2014, 01:33 AM
Walk confidently, with awareness.
Put the cell-phone away and pay attention!
Look over your shoulder on both sides, often.
Set in the back, with your back to a wall.

And stay out of bars after 10:00 PM.

Worked for me for 70 years.

rc

DNS
May 1, 2014, 04:58 AM
As stupid as it sounds pull out your phone and start recording him/them. They sometimes lose steam that way. Did this with a drunk fella a month ago and for some strange reason his story didn't jive with the video when as it turns out, witnesses called the police.

It also looked bad that he followed me into the parking lot and blocked me in with his pickup.:rolleyes:

Jack Worf
May 7, 2014, 11:24 AM
Knives, pens, bottleopeners they are all fine. I carry at least one of them with me all of the time. But these, as firearms, are just tools.

However, unlike with firearms, people generally tend to realize immediately, that they do need actual force-on-force training.

I'd recommend looking into something like "Dog Brothers" or "Gabe Suarez". They even made at least one video together: "Die Less Often".

However, that's just a vid. Actual training is still mandatory. No "tool" can help you to circumvene this. You have to hit the Gym.

CWL
May 7, 2014, 08:45 PM
As stupid as it sounds pull out your phone and start recording him/them. They sometimes lose steam that way. Did this with a drunk fella a month ago and for some strange reason his story didn't jive with the video when as it turns out, witnesses called the police.

It also looked bad that he followed me into the parking lot and blocked me in with his pickup.:rolleyes:
I don't think I can agree with this advice. It might make an overall honest person who is acting like a buffoon slink away, but it seems like a good way to get a real BG to decide to commit to your assault.

We had a 66 yr-old lady near here who was shot and killed because she was recording two suspected gang members. Nobody knows what she was recording because they took her cellhone after killing her.

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/2-arrested-in-killing-of-Oakland-s-pet-nanny-5426979.php

glistam
May 8, 2014, 09:58 AM
We had a 66 yr-old lady near here who was shot and killed because she was recording two suspected gang members. Nobody knows what she was recording because they took her cellhone after killing her.
She also tailed them in her car back to their house.

CWL
May 8, 2014, 12:47 PM
She also tailed them in her car back to their house.
If she tailed them back to their house, why would it have taken 8 months to find who they were? These two gang thugs were not residents of Maxwell Park, a nice family neighborhood of Oakland.

Comes back to, she was using her cell camera to record their assumed illegal activities and was first assaulted, and then killed.

Hunter2011
May 9, 2014, 06:02 AM
Knives, pens, bottleopeners they are all fine. I carry at least one of them with me all of the time. But these, as firearms, are just tools.

However, unlike with firearms, people generally tend to realize immediately, that they do need actual force-on-force training.

I'd recommend looking into something like "Dog Brothers" or "Gabe Suarez". They even made at least one video together: "Die Less Often".

However, that's just a vid. Actual training is still mandatory. No "tool" can help you to circumvene this. You have to hit the Gym.
Hit the gym? Yes it can work, but what about when I am 70? I do need a good non-lethal weapon.
How good are pepper spray really? I mean you must hit the guy in his eyes.
Stun Batons? How good are they? What model is the best? I've seen many youtube vids where the guy stands laughing after his girlfriend/friend shocked him. They don't look good enough.

Jack Worf
May 9, 2014, 04:55 PM
I did not mean to diminish your concerns. I'm over 40 myself and I still have to keep a lookout on my father, who's in his 70ies, as I'm afraid he might pull some stunt on me sooner or later.

However, you didn't mention any physical incapabilities in your OP. Therefore I assumed it safe to suggest a physical regiment. Because, no matter how one'd like it color it, it's gonna get physical. And there is certainly no magic wand, be it pepper spray or any other, that will solve it with a single stroke or touch of a button.

I have to admit I've never much concerned myself with things like stun batons or pepper spray. Not even when educating my mother about self defense. I taught her some things about the use of the flashlight and the kermabit, but mostly talked to her about common sense. She still carries pepper spray, though. I just hope I made her realize how much sense of false security and possible selfinjuries that might ensue.

In other words: if/when you realize how important force-on-force training is for combative handgun-shooting, then you'll have no problem recognizing that it's no different with non-lethal SD-tools.

Deltaboy
May 9, 2014, 06:56 PM
I carry a cane ,pepper spray,flashlight,several knives and a handgun.

19-3Ben
May 9, 2014, 07:26 PM
So far there has been a whole bunch of good advice on here.
I will add one thing.

Let me just say it as it is. I am not Bruce Lee. I am over 40 and getting older by the day. There is no way I can take on a big built 25 year old guy.

This is a big problem, and this mentality is dangerous.

When I graduated college at 22, I was 35lbs overweight, and out of shape. I got sick of it and I decided to do something about it. I lost the weight, and I've had slight ups and downs since then (5-10lbs more or less), but nothing really significant in terms of actual weight. What I HAVE done is increase muscle mass and cardiac stamina since then. I am 29 and in better than at any point previously in my life. I coach soccer to 14-16 year olds, and in training, I can always outrun my kids in speed and distance.

I'm not saying this to make anyone feel badly, or to brag, and I do realize that staying in shape at 29 is much easier than at 40, but it is an example of age not meaning that one HAS to "lose it." I have a friend who is 68 and is stronger than I am. While he couldn't hold pace with me in an 8 mile run or anything, pound for pound, he's stronger than most guys my age. Why? because when he was 50yo he realized he had let himself go and decided to do something about it. He hits the gym 5 times a week, lifts, takes long walks etc...
Now this guy is one tough bruiser. At 68 years old, I wouldn't wanna be the guy to try anything with him. He has great physical capacity, and has taken martial arts to learn how maximize on that potential.


Moral of the story, age is really no excuse.* Find a way to get back in shape. It's tough and it sucks, but you can do it. Once in shape, learn how to use your newfound fitness and you'll be surprised what you can do.


*of course, if someone has an impairment/disability it's a different matter.

EDIT TO ADD-
Aside from anything else, anyone who has ever been in a hand-to-hand fight knows how much of an intense amount of energy it requires. The caloric output in a short period is intense, your heart is racing, etc... It's an incredible strain on the system. Being armed, but out of shape you're still in trouble. A weapon wielded by someone who can't put out that massive energy needed to fight is not going to save him.

sgt127
May 9, 2014, 10:14 PM
Clutch chest. Scream. Tip over forehead on the steering wheel, horn blaring. Let arms drop limp to side. Remain motionless. He'll spend months scanning the paper and waiting for a knock on the door.

Option 2 (my preferred choice actually) pepper spray. Good for one on one and clearing a crowd. As soon as you get it, spray some in a paper cup and breathe in a snootful. At least you'll know what to expect because invariably, you will get hit with some blow back if you ever use it.

Valkman
May 10, 2014, 12:32 AM
*of course, if someone has an impairment/disability it's a different matter.

I'm glad you put that in there because at 29 I wasn't afraid of much but at 58 I cannot fight some young big guy anymore. I've had a liver transplant and have bad feet so I will not run and I will not be pounded on. I don't like to say "Well if this happens I'll shoot" but there are lines I draw. I agree with carrying pepper spray for less than lethal situations. A cane is an excellent thing to have with you as are knives and of course a gun if you can.

Hunter2011
May 10, 2014, 06:22 AM
I agree, nothing wrong with going to the gym to improve yourself etc. At this moment I can do 30 more push-ups than what I could manage 8 years ago. So anyone can better himself. But you do get guys that are just good, and usually, from my experience, it is them that does not mind to be confrontational for the slightest reason. I will not be able to win in such a fight. That is that.
My father bought pepper spray for my mother. We tested it and got some blow-back, just a little, very little, it did not even get on us fiscally. But it was bad, even the dog sneezed. So I do believe a direct hit will mean something. But can you always reliably get a direct hit?

Pete D.
May 10, 2014, 12:22 PM
Buy a livestock /stockman's/sorting cane, the kind used to handle cattle. They can be had in wood - heavy 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch hickory - or in UHMW plastic.
Inexpensive.
I have a 36" cattle cane of hickory. It is a formidable piece.
Google is your friend.

Booner63
May 12, 2014, 07:51 PM
From anyone with experience with "Stun Guns", how effective are they? I've heard (from this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcOMhnf38LE) that the actual TASERs - the ranged ones that launch electrodes into the target - are good at incapacitating by disrupting the nervous system, but that the handheld stun-guns with fixed electrodes do nothing but cause pain. Is this true? If so, why is this? My thinking was that since both introduce an electric current into the body, they should both disrupt the nervous system, but hey.
Does the "stun gun" disrupt the nervous system, or does it just cause pain?

Madcap_Magician
May 12, 2014, 08:03 PM
From anyone with experience with "Stun Guns", how effective are they? I've heard (from this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcOMhnf38LE) that the actual TASERs - the ranged ones that launch electrodes into the target - are good at incapacitating by disrupting the nervous system, but that the handheld stun-guns with fixed electrodes do nothing but cause pain. Is this true? If so, why is this? My thinking was that since both introduce an electric current into the body, they should both disrupt the nervous system, but hey.
Does the "stun gun" disrupt the nervous system, or does it just cause pain?

Distance between the probes will determine the effectiveness. With the little stun zappers, you are only getting about 2" or less distance between the probes, which is enough to cause some muscular pain. Additionally, that only lasts as long as the contact with the zapper, and the natural flinch mechanism will mean the person you hit with it will probably only get a tiny zap from it.

Contra TASER, which when well-aimed will land probes about two feet or more apart, and the probes are barbed. The electrical circuit now goes through several large muscle groups, which leads to that incapacitation effect.

That's not saying TASERs never fail, but a good hit with one will always drop someone for the count. If they are experienced or determined, that may be all you get, though the civilian TASER models run on a 30-second shock cycle.

Most common points of failure with the TASER would probably be: one or both probes missing the target, movement of the target dislodging a probe, or probes being fired from too close leading to insufficient probe spread.

Pete D.
May 13, 2014, 06:18 AM
Hit the gym? Yes it can work, but what about when I am 70?
When you are 70?
Why should that matter? Hit the gym.
Pete (in my 68th year)

Paladin7
May 20, 2014, 06:08 PM
I grew up in a very bad neighborhood and have had occassion in my life to learn some very good lessons... chief among them is...situational awareness, the second is...not acting like a victim.

Being very aware of what is going on around you all the time is something most people in our emasculated society just don't know how to do, so when they encounter one of society's predators, they easily become prey.

Not acting like a victim is a bit more tricky...some people just naturally have it, most don't. The way you carry yourself around people and how you deal with eye contact has a lot to do with it.

Thankfully, there is only a small percentage of the population that would fall into the category of sociopaths, but they do exist. So, chances are, if you are minding your p's and q's, not going into bad places, and are always aware of what is going on around you, you shouldn't have to worry about too many what ifs.

Also, road rage is a pretty easy one...drive carefully, and if you offend someone say sorry to difuse the situation, even if you are convinced it was not your fault. Better to swallow your pride, than get hurt or killed.

Best advice I can give you is to check out Marc "the animal" MacYoung's site... http://nononsenseselfdefense.com/

There is a ton of very good information on that site and book recommendations that can help a lot.

krupparms
May 22, 2014, 03:38 PM
I use a walking stick when possible, if not then a cane. Someone brought up a handkerchief. These can be carried folded with some metal washers inside . Stick it in a pocket with part of it hanging out, makes a good sap.

GLOOB
May 22, 2014, 04:13 PM
Someone brought up a handkerchief. These can be carried folded with some metal washers inside . Stick it in a pocket with part of it hanging out, makes a good sap.
Check your local laws. Saps are illegal in many states. Sure, it's just a handkerchief and some washers. Or a sock and a cueball. But that's one of the reasons why they are made illegal. They are cheap, silent, and disposable, which has historically made them popular with criminals.


Officer: Do you have any weapons on you?

You: No.

You better hope he doesn't search you and that he buys your explanation of just coming back from the hardware store.

You: Yes.

Admitted that your handerchief + washers is intended as a weapon, making it a sap/blackjack.

A change purse with a sturdy string closure might be a little more discreet. When asked what it is, you can say, "about 12 bucks!" Too bad we don't have any lead coins. :)

If you enjoyed reading about "Best way of protecting yourself" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!