223 hollow point, match, game, varmint, SD


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JamieC
April 26, 2014, 08:55 AM
What exactly is the difference between all of the different 'hollow point' bullets? Specifically, I'm looking to reload some mainly SD. The gun is a 1:9, 16" barrel. I see hollow points labeled as 'match', so I'm ASSuming target accuracy is the main reason, why hollow point?:confused: I've read that the 'match' ammo is "not good'', "great for SD/hunting". I've reloaded a bunch of V Max bullets in different powders and weights I need to finish trying out. I get that the "V" in V Max is for varmint, fast initial expansion, 'generally' not recommended for SD, (although if a BG was shot with one or two, if not dead, would seriously reconsider his/her current course). What is the difference between a 'match' hollow point and a 'game', SD hollow point? Any recommendations?

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rcmodel
April 26, 2014, 11:31 AM
A game or varmint HP has a wide HP cavity, designed to promote explosive expansion.
They may have internal skiving to thin the jacket, or internal slits to help the jacket open more really.

The HP on a match bullet is just the result of the way they make them.

The most accurate bullets have the closed end of the jacket on the base of the bullet.
That leaves the open end at the tip, where it can't be squeezed completely closed.
Thus, HP match bullets.
They may or may not expand reliably, but are not designed too.

IMO: You would be hard pressed to improve on 55-60 grain V-Max for HD.
Massive destruction without excessive risk of over-penetration.

Go here to see ballistic gel tests.

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/223-remington/60-gr-tap-urban

rc

Gadawg88
April 26, 2014, 12:22 PM
+1 for V-Max for HD (typical urban setting). Massive tissue damage in the 2 to 5 inch gel depth range with fragments traveling deeper and wider. It is hard for me to imagine a perp. not being DRT if hit center mass. Lots of vids on YouTube of gel tests etc. If you live on a ranch or out in the country where the nearest neighbor is a mile away, then maybe you might argue for a bullet with more barrier penetration capability, but only maybe. There are many opinions and depends on your setting and outlook.

nastynatesfish
April 28, 2014, 02:38 PM
I wouldn't use an ar for home defense if I had a 12 guage. Take some drywall out to a range you shoot. Kinda mock up a wall and place it at 10 yards. Take turns shooting it with what your thinking of using. That was a huge eye opener to me. Then envision your loved ones or kids or even that damn neighbor you keep borrowing your stuff and not bringing it back

ArchAngelCD
April 28, 2014, 02:43 PM
Nothing much left here to do... Load up some of the V-Max bullets to be sure they are accurate in your rifle and carry on!

nastynatesfish
April 28, 2014, 02:46 PM
You should also look into laws about using reloads for personal protection. I understand Florida and Arizona aren't the same but...maybe take a concealed carry class. Lot of good info. I relad for everything but also have factory ammo for sitting in the dresser or in the closet

ArchAngelCD
April 28, 2014, 02:58 PM
You should also look into laws about using reloads for personal protection. I understand Florida and Arizona aren't the same but...maybe take a concealed carry class. Lot of good info. I relad for everything but also have factory ammo for sitting in the dresser or in the closet
It's a rifle for goodness sake. Using a .223 semi-auto rifle is a growing trend across the whole country and I have never heard of a court case questioning the gun or the ammo. (not that I hear of every case in America)

JamieC
April 28, 2014, 06:20 PM
You should also look into laws about using reloads for personal protection. I understand Florida and Arizona aren't the same but...maybe take a concealed carry class. Lot of good info. I relad for everything but also have factory ammo for sitting in the dresser or in the closet
I've read many articles regarding the potential issues of reloads, haven't found ANY actual proof that it is a problem. That being said, most of my carry ammo is factory, once I've gone through enough, I'll cycle in my reloads. As for concealed carry classes, (I've attended more than a few), not sure what that has to do with rifle ammunition.

grubbylabs
April 28, 2014, 06:40 PM
I am in the same camp, if you have a hand gun or a shot gun, why the AR? seems like over penetration would be to big an issue.

Gadawg88
April 28, 2014, 09:06 PM
00 buck can penetrate more layers of wallboard than a 55gn fmj .223 round.

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/

Also interesting: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

MtnCreek
April 29, 2014, 07:25 AM
If you wanted something with more penetration than the v-max, Speer makes a 70gr Semi-Spitzer that's a great bullet.

mdm
April 29, 2014, 08:09 AM
You should also look into laws about using reloads for personal protection.
Since it appears you believe there are laws related to using reloads for personal protection, I think it would be better if you do the looking and get back with us with what you find. However, you will be in for a long, fruitless search.

As far as pistol vs. rifle vs. shot gun for personal defense, I've never cared for shot guns and I much prefer a rifle over a handgun. I've got two types of rifles for home defense, AR 15 and .30 carbine.

For the AR I have rounds loaded with the MidwayUSA 55 gr HP and the Nosler Varmageddon 55 gr HP. I've got no proof they are the same bullet, but they both perform the same with the same load. I've done gel testing with both of them and you can't tell the difference between them. You get explosive performance in the gel that will ruin the day of anyone stupid enough to be in the way. Even at the short range involved in home defense you are not likely to have anything exiting the back and causing unintended injuries as long as it is a center mass hit.

For the .30 carbine I load Hornaday's 100 gr SJ. It gives excellent expansion and will certainly knock you down. It is more likely to go all the way through the bad guy than my AR rounds but not by much.

nastynatesfish
April 29, 2014, 09:50 AM
When I did my conceal carry class there was a case in court then for a person that shot someone trying to rob an individual. Was shot using self admitted reloads and in civil court was being sued and the issue was the ammo was "manufactured to kill". It's one more thing to worry about of all the implications when having to use legal force to defend.

nastynatesfish
April 29, 2014, 09:52 AM
No there are no set laws for using reloads but you'll be screwed in civil court. I should have phrased it different

mdm
April 29, 2014, 10:58 AM
When I did my conceal carry class there was a case in court then for a person that shot someone trying to rob an individual. Was shot using self admitted reloads and in civil court was being sued and the issue was the ammo was "manufactured to kill".
"manufactured to kill"? What self defense round isn't made to kill? If it won't kill, what's the point of it? If I shoot you with FMJ ball rounds, you will be dead.

What was the outcome of the suit? There is too much nonsense spewed on this subject. There are too many stories thrown out there by people without full knowledge of the subject. Magazines and books are full of these "facts" about the legal dangers of using reloads for SD. However, where are the real facts? Where are the real cases? Who are the imprisoned, broke fools that used reloads for SD and ended up being sued and thrown in prison?

KingM
May 1, 2014, 12:24 AM
In civil court anyone can be suid for anything. Same argument could have been said about Critical Defence. Here is my thoughts on it. I carry daily for the just in case that I doubt will ever come. Shot I carry for my job with the same thoughts. However if the day comes that I have to take another life the least of my concerns is going to be what will happen to me after that. No mater what it isn't going to be good & it will be life changing.

Now back on subject the first couple of replies pretty much covered it. I'd use V-Max.

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