[SoCalGeek]

I was fortunate enough to have the honor of putting the first few shots through a Performance Center .44 (I'm not sure of the model number, nor the material... i think it was Titanium) that belonged to a friend of my mother. So we got there, set up, blah blah blah, and i decided to start with .44 Specials since i hadn't shot .44 magnums in a while and not out of a gun with a ~2 inch barrel. I put a cylinder through it, as did my brother, then when it was my turn again we decided to load it with Magnums. The first 3 or 4 shots went off without a hitch. Then, on the next one, i noticed that the recoil felt a little different. I also caught a glimpse of a black metal thing falling out of the sky. I look up, slightly confused, and realize my gun is missing something-- the barrel. It was lying a few feet downrange, a chunk had been ripped off of the frame, and smoke was pouring out of the cylinder. For a minute i was somewhat ":confused:", then it dawned on me what happened and i damn near soiled myself. Anyway, long story short, on the line break we go and pick up the barrel. Now, up to this point we figured there had been some sort of obstruction. Nope, almost as clean as it was when we'd put it in the car that morning. So i said all that to say, any guesses as to the cause of the problem? If it helps, we were shooting PMC .44Special and Winchester .44Magnum. I'll post pics tomorrow afternoon.

Edit: My apologies to the mods if they feel this post belongs somewhere else. I wasn't sure where to put it.

[WonderNine]

Yipes!

I guess this outdoes the "My Taurus shot itself to pieces" thread in Revolvers.

[SoCalGeek]

I just saw that thread right before i read your reply, be glad that you got so many rounds through it! =P And mine was a S&W Performance Center, damn! Guess it says alot about what kind of performance :D <ducks flying tomatoes from all the SW fans>

[Preacherman]

Well, that should be good for a free gun or two from S&W... :what:

[SoCalGeek]

You know, you're the second person that's told me that... unfortunately, like i said the gun doesn't belong to me and the guy who owns it will probably be content with a refund. He should give one to me!:p I don't own any :(

[Snowdog]

What shape is the forcing cone in? The only thing I can think of besides a barrel obstruction is faulty timing causing the bullet to ram the forcing cone.
Did you observe the primer from the fired case and notice any seriously off-center strike?

This certainly is a mystery!
I know you may have heard it before, but the important thing is that it wasn't a body part of yours falling from the sky.

[Werewolf]

the gun doesn't belong to me and the guy who owns it will probably be content with a refund.

A refund?
From a gun dealer?

ROFLMAO!!!!

Maybe when pigs fly or hell freezes over he'll get a refund. He'll have to send the piece to S&W and they'll replace it but I can't imagine a refund even in my wildest dreams!

[sturmruger]

That would have scared me as well. I am looking forward to some pics.

[PATH]

That is a rather unnerving experience I'll wager! Thank goodness you are OK! Replacement is in order and something extra because you could have been seriously injured!

[Sydwaiz]

Replacement is in order and something extra because you could have been seriously injured!

How bout a new pair of underpants!

Glad to hear no one got hurt. If replacement is in order, ask for a stronger gun.

[Josey]

I would have DOCUMENTED everything! The thing to do is see a snak, uh...a member of the legal profession and consider a lawsuit. It seems everywhere I turn lately S&W has screwed up. Cracked barrels, locked up actions, poor timing, cranes falling out, hammers breaking, barrels flying off and a couple of KBs.

[SoCalGeek]

Here's the picture, sorry i didn't get more but that should give you an idea of what happened. We never did find that chunk of the frame...
Warning: Pic is 846KB
Kaboom (http://www.geocities.com/anthacker5/kaboom.JPG)

[tc300mag1]

Holy cow ..That would sure cause the heart to race little faster .. How about a shot of the end of the barrel ..

[Michigander]

Wow! That's just crazy. :eek:

[Nick1911]

Shoot. It says you've exceded you bandwith. Can you post the pic here?

I'm glad to hear that there were no injuries.

[SoCalGeek]

Nick1911-It would seem the picture is too big to be posted here. If somebody knows how to compress it or would like to host it for me, i'll gladly email it to them.
TC300Mag1- That's the only picture of the gun i have, but if it helps the barrel was in good condition aside from the threads being effed up (presumably from the explosion) and some scratches due to it being thrown downrange.

[cidirkona]

Email it to me at cidirkona@yahoo.com and I'll shrink and post it.

-Colin

[Amish_Bill]

I have space to host the full size image if you like.

[cool45auto]

:eek: Glad you're okay. I'd really like to see those pics.

[Standing Wolf]

Sounds like a Smith & Wesson so-called "quality" issue.

[SoCalGeek]

Okay, i've sent the pic to Cidirkona and he should be posting it shortly.

[cidirkona]

it won't let me post or some weird reason, something's not right with THR...

I'll try it again later...

By the way, I resized this pic with a program called IrFanView, that you can get here (http://download.com.com/3000-2192-10223761.html?tag=lst-0-1) -- small program, about the same size as the original picture...

-Colin

[DigMe]

Maybe you accidentally hit the emergency backup trigger...it shoots the barrel at the bad guy when you run out of ammo. What will those wacky folks at S&W come up with next?! ;)

brad cook

ps - I use Irfanview as well, although I'm interested in trying out this program called "The Gimp" which is supposed to be an amazing photo editing program and it's totally free

[Nick1911]

ps - I use Irfanview as well, although I'm interested in trying out this program called "The Gimp" which is supposed to be an amazing photo editing program and it's totally free

I wasn't aware that the gimp was available on a non-linux\unix machine. If someone finds a ligit download for it for a windows machine, be sure to post it! (and, yea, I really liked it when I was running linux)

it won't let me post or some weird reason, something's not right with THR...

Darn. Prehaps you could post a link where it is housed at?

Nick

[ballistic gelatin]

.44 special and .44 magnum are two totally different calibers. They cannot safely be fired from the same gun.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

:banghead: I wanna see :banghead:

Didn't somebody just mention the launched barrel from an S&W on the Taurus thread yesterday, the crane screw thingy?

I guess I will stay with Ruger :neener:

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

.44 special and .44 magnum are two totally different calibers. They cannot safely be fired from the same gun. :confused:

Did the barrel hit you in the head? Whatever you do, do not tell Mr. Redhawk that, you meany.

They most certainly are the same caliber. You can fire specials out of a mag revo all day. You can not, however, fire maggies out of a special only (unless you push them in really, really hard )

:what: . JUST KIDDING. Never fire magnums from a special-only revolver.

[DigMe]

I wasn't aware that the gimp was available on a non-linux\unix machine. If someone finds a ligit download for it for a windows machine, be sure to post it! (and, yea, I really liked it when I was running linux)

http://www.gimp.org/windows/

brad cook

[BluesBear]

Here's a smaller version of SoCalGeek's kaboom pic.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=919350

[WonderNine]

Cute.

I really don't know what to think about these new titanium, scandium, MIM'd revolvers nowadays....well yea I do, but I won't say it here.....

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

:what: Not a confidence builder.

The mighty .44 Mag apparently firmly rejects less-than-steel alternative

[Unlucky]

That looks like "white" metal underneath the blue. :rolleyes: I know its some super-duper wonder alloy, but it may as well have been.

[Black Majik]

Holy wow! Glad to hear you're ok.

Anyone know of anymore incidents with the scandium revolvers? I was considering one, but damn... that picture definitely made me think twice!


Keep us updated on what happens.

[sitkablacktail]

That's spookey.

[SoCalGeek]

Well, don't throw the idea out entirely-- I've heard of many satisfied customers, albeit for the .357s and down. But yeah, I'll be damned if I'm going near one again for a while.

[The_Antibubba]

You're lucky there were no Kalifornia Kops at the range-they would've busted you for an illegally shortened barrel. :p

Seriously, glad you weren't hurt.

[Wildalaska]

Hmmmm....

Im withholding judgement until S&W sees it.....but somehting strikes me as wrong....

WildcurioushereAlaska

[Josey]

OK. This is the second one I am aware of, the third problem with S&W crush fitting. There must be something wrong at the barrel fitting machine.

[stans]

I'm thinking that when S&W installed the barrel they had to really torque it down to get the front sight centered. This could have overstressed the frame and set up som small stress fractures. Firing the gun only propogated the fractures until they went all the way through the metal and released the barrel. For whatever reason, S&W has always seemed to have problems with crush fit revolver barrels.

[gvass]

hi,
interesting way of making a pepperbox...

BTW: I tried a 329PD yesterday. If I read this topic first I would not be so brave...

[cidirkona]

Hey sorry about that man, THR just didn't wanna take my post... it was weird.

-colin

[Master Blaster]

I was just thinking about getting a 642 PD to carry.

I just changed my mind. I'll stick with my old trusty 36 chiefs special from 1973, made of forged steel.

[Poohgyrr]

Hmmm. I'd contact S&W and ask for a 4" M24, a case of ammo, and some componants. Well, maybe I'd settle for a 4" M624, but I prefer a clean used M24.

Serious though, I sincerely expect that Smith will be interested in making this good. After all, they don't want to share the Kb! reputation with the dark side pistols.......

:evil:

[blfuller]

Just curious on the construction of the barrel on the 329. Does it have a shroud over a SS barrel like the J frame Scandium .357 or are they a standard steel barrel threaded into the frame like a steel N-frame?

Actually on the Scandium J-frame, the barrel holds the shroud on. A special tool is required to remove the barrel.

[snubby]

So this kaboom was in a 2" bbl alloy 44 mag from Performance Center, not the standard 329PD with the 4" bbl. Wonder if there was some mistake during the barrel lopping by PC? Anyone heard of this happening with the 4" 329?

[sgt127]

Does that gun have the sleeved barrel? I wonder if the steel sleeve is too thin, causing the barrel sleeve to bulge on every shot, like a snake swallowing a rat. I suppose that COULD cause the frame to develop cracks along the threads and eventually fail. Since there is no apparent damage to the barrel, its my best guess.

[Dr.Rob]

Looks to me like a failure at the forcing cone, as if the revolver was out of time.

Scary malfunction, but a lot better than losing fingers and hands.

[scromp]

Gimp can be found at gimp.org (http://gimp.org/) and is available there in binary format for Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. Enjoy. :)

[goon]

First, I'm glad that no one got hurt.
Second, I was thinking about getting a S&W...
Can't buy a Taurus...
Can't buy a smith...
I guess it has to be a Ruger...

[HD]

i am seeing more and more 'choked' barrels on S&W revolvers lately.... stupid wrenched in barrels... just 'cause its a few cents cheaper than 'fitted and pinned'...

[one45auto]

Holy sh*t!! :what:

After looking at your photograph carefully, I can only assume that if there were no obstructions in the barrel then the side of the frame where the chunk is missing had a hairline crack or was structurally weak to begin with and thus fractured completely under pressure. That's the worst gun mishap I've ever seen. A friend of mine once had a choke tube shoot out of his shotgun, but that's nothing like having a pistol practically come apart in your hand.

It must be a recent quality control issue with S&W because I've never had any problems with my older models.

[WonderNine]

Gotta love the new MIM uberalloy guns for ridiculous buck$ nowadays. Well actually, no you don't have to.

[Master Blaster]

my gun club has a smith and wesson .357 revolver with a 4" barrel, its a model 19 pinned and recessed 1965 vintage. it was being fired with wadcutters loaded with 3.8 grains of bullseye in a .357 case, the owner was firing it one day as he had many hundreds of times before.
And suddenly the barrel and half of the topstrap departed the gun.

when the barrel and topstrap were recovered from down range The barrel had no obstruction in the bore it was clean as a whistle, no bulge nothing.
It looks sorta like your picture except 1" of the topstrap broke off too.

The theory is that the round before the last one was a squibb, and the bullet lodged in the barrel, the problem is that the shooter who is very experienced did not notice anything different on the next to last shot.

casings taken out of the cylinder looked normal with centered hits on the primers??????????


So no one really knows what happened.


This on the other hand was a performance center gun not a 30 year old model 19 with 50,000+ rounds through it.

[M16]

I doubt if this is a true story. I smell a rat here. If anything it looks like a poor job of gunsmithing. The 329 has a sleeved barrel but the one shown doesn't appear to be. The picture is of poor quality. How about giving us the name and how to contact the rest of the people who were there when this happened. Nothing amazes me more than how many of you react to anything that is posted on the internet. Do you really believe everything you read?

[PigPen]

that I read on the Internet, but I must plead guilty to being easily taken in by things that I read on these highly credible lists. While I am reserving judgement at the moment, on this event in particular, I think I will probably try to be more skeptical of what I read from now on............Thanks for the heads up.


Now, having said that, what evidence do you have for it being untrue?

PigPen

[M16]

Like I said. The picture is poor quality but it doesn't appear to be a sleeved barrel. Also the poster indicated a 2" barrel. To my knowledge the 329 has never been made with a 2" barrel. The break appears to be manmade instead of being caused by detonation. I could be wrong but that's why I'd like to see some more information.

[uglygun]

I once saw a 686 launch it's barrel down range, most bizarre thing I've ever seen.


The barrel broke off just where it butts up against the frame, looked like a hairline fracture started at the angle formed where the barrel is turned down for the threading of the barrel and through continued stress of firing the crack continued clean through.


What was sad, it was at a shooting range and the gun in question was a rental gun. I'm sitting there and all of a sudden a guy comes back from the range with this super snubby in one hand and in the other hand a 4 inch length of barrel that was still mildly warm. The frame still had the threaded portion in the frame with the forcing cone apparently intact.

[cidirkona]

Actually, the picture is of very high quality, just that we had to squish it down quite a bit to be able to load it on the site... I can get you the original that I have on my computer at home later tonight if you'd like.

That'd take someone quite a while in photoshop to be able to get that much detail in a joke...

-Colin

[Master Blaster]

Looks like a 3" barrel to me in the picture:

There are two on sale at GunsAmerica for around $1000, S&W no longer lists them on their site, only the 4" model.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976396478.htm

[valnar]

Gee, kinda makes you long for the great quality-control of the ol' Bangor Punta era.
:rolleyes: :scrutiny:


-Robert

[M16]

I'm not saying it was a photoshop job. I can't tell by the photo if there is a steel liner in the barrel. My understanding is that S&W uses a reverse mandrell that engages the grooves to install the barrel. Was this possibly caused by someone trying to unscrew the barrel without the proper tools.

[BluesBear]

The Performance Center did indeed make and market a 3" compensated .44 mag. The barrel was all steel, as shown in the photo.

In my guesstimation the frame was stressed when the barrel was screwed IN. We all know, or at least we should realize, that the metal in a gun "flexes" slightly when fired. It is this flexing and expanding that allows pressure testing with a surface sensor.

If there is a flaw or a crack, especially in dissimilar metals, you can see a failure just as shown in the photo.

[Zenon]

Ouch! It hurts just looking at that.

Methinks dissimilar metals expanding at differing rates due to heating in conjunction with high pressures equals the unfortunate result. Over-torquing the threads might contribute also.

[Gewehr98]

Have the folks at S&W responded yet? Is M16 in a better mood yet? If not, there is a thread online here about a 642 with a cracked barrel, maybe he can call it a fake, too. :rolleyes:

[caz223]

Ouch.
I'm sticking to all steel for the mighty .44 from now on...

[SoCalGeek]

Gewehr98- I'll give the gun owner a call this week and let you guys know what's going on.

M16- I never said it was a 329, i said it was a Performance Center gun which i do not know the model number of. Also, i said it was approximately 2 inches, i suppose it could have been 3. Anyways, i can understand that you'd take this with a grain of salt but i can assure you, this actually happened.

[M16]

Still wondering what happened. Any news?

[SoCalGeek]

My mom talked to him on Friday night, evidently it's "in the shop" (Store where he bought it? Gunsmith? S&W? Your guess is as good as mine.) So as far as the gun itself, that's the end of that story. If anything interesting comes out of it, i'll post an update.

[M16]

Still waiting to find out what happened? I think by now somebody ought to know something.

[WonderNine]

Yea, wondering what happened here....

[SoCalGeek]

Apologies for not updating sooner, it slipped my mind I guess. Like i said, the gun is back at the store and they've given him a store credit for pretty much any gun he wants. He got a .454 Lever Gun and a Kimber 1911 out of the deal, so i guess he's pretty happy!

[M16]

That's it? No explanation of what the caused the problem. No response from Smith & Wesson? I would demand an explanation? Do you have the phone number for the gunshop?

[SoCalGeek]

Well, i don't know because he didn't tell me, but next time i see him i'll ask him for all the gory details.

[Powderman]

Apologies for not updating sooner, it slipped my mind I guess. Like i said, the gun is back at the store and they've given him a store credit for pretty much any gun he wants. He got a .454 Lever Gun and a Kimber 1911 out of the deal, so i guess he's pretty happy!

Store credit?

.454 and a Kimber?

What kind of gun store is this?

I know that some gun stores will give limited warranties on their new guns. I used to when I was a dealer.

But for a catastrophic metallurgical failure like this?

Why wasn't this gun sent back to the factory immediately? Smith and Wesson would have a vested interest in receiving this gun. You would have received your money back--or possibly the brand new handgun of your choice.

So, your friend received about $1500 - $2000 in guns in exchange for a kB'ed $8-900 gun?

Pardon me for being skeptical. I was ready to jump on M16, but something is not right here.

What gun store? Where is it?

[c_yeager]

So, your friend received about $1500 - $2000 in guns in exchange for a kB'ed $8-900 gun?

So your telling me that a Kimber .45 and a lever action .454 can't be had for less than $1500? And shall we assume that this is the same shop that you can buy NIB S&W Performance Center scandium(?) .44 snubby for $800-$900? Please tell me where this gunshop is. I think i could do some SERIOUS horse trading with these guys.

The story as i read it is thus:

SoCal's buddy buys new revolver.
New revolver blows up in spectacular fashion
SoCal's buddy takes revolver back to gunshop and gets refund
Buddy then buys different guns with refund.

What part of this story doesnt add up to you again?

If i have a gun that fails like that I'm going to go and get my money back too. Why should i send it to S&W and wait several weeks for them to decide if they want to replace it with the exact same revolver that almost killed me the first time? Sending it to S&W would be a last resort.

Besides even IF you decided to send it to S&W what do you think they would say?

Are they gonna say : "yeah looks like we have cut enough corners that we're selling dangerous and EXPENSIVE revolvers now, better buy a Ruger next time"

OR

Are they gonna say : "Whoops heres a new gun, now shut up about this and have a nice day"

[Powderman]

Please excuse me if I sounded antagonistic. But, I have never heard--in over 34 years of shooting--a gun store that would replace a gun that failed in that fashion.

I am not saying that they don't exist; just that I have never heard of it happening.

I know that I would have been on the phone post haste to Smith and Wesson to say what they had to say. Has S&W been contacted about it?

[c_yeager]

Please excuse me if I sounded antagonistic. But, I have never heard--in over 34 years of shooting--a gun store that would replace a gun that failed in that fashion.

Let's see. In your (and my) home state there is "Gun Town USA" and "Wade's Gunshop" both of which i have personally returned or personally know someone who has returned defective firearms for a full refund. Those are the only two that i've tried it at as well.

Based on dealings in the past with the staff at Stan's in lake city i can also say with confidence that they would also take returns of NEW defective firearms.

[Powderman]

Indeed. I stand corrected, and am preparing a feast of crow, well steamed and seasoned with beak and feathers. Ummm.....tasty!

Seriously, where is Gun Town? I haven't been there yet.

[c_yeager]

It's in southern Everett (north Lynnwood?) on highway 99.

Heres their website www.guntown.com not the best prices in the world but they have had top notch customer service when i've gone there. It looks like they might be going out of buisiness so now is good time to make deals on what they have in the store i would imagine. (although since this whole sub-topic has been about returning firearms you probably won't be able to do that when they close).

Nothing wrong with crow. If i had a nickle for everytime i was wrong about something I'd be a rich man.

[BluesBear]

Actually I would consider Guntown to be right in the middle of Lynnwood.

It will be strange if they are going out of business. :confused: They just moved into the new building a few months ago. I was just in there last week. I guess I'll have to drop in there tomorrow since they're just about 3 miles up the road from me.



By the way, I'll wager that Ka-Boomed S&W cost a few nickles more than $900.
I think any reputable shop would take it back since the barrel and cylinder look to be just fine. Only the frame shows any damage. That would rule out an ammunition malfunction which would mean it's a manufacturing problem.

[c_yeager]

I thought it was weird that they were closing too. I saw it on their website (check it out). I don't know if ownership is being transferred or what. If they go away completely im gonna be sad. They are pretty nice guys who always seem to have patience with my stupid questions.

[BluesBear]

There do seem to know their stuff there. I have noticed that the more money you spend the nicer they become. There are some other local shops that are just as nice but seem to have a higher BS quotient.

[Crownvicman]

I had a new S&W 64 do the same thing last year. Barrel just shot down range while shooting 125 gr +p's. I think S&W may be having some quality control problems.

[DrDremel]

I had a Smith & Wesson 296 blow up with factory .44 special ammo. If anyone can post pics I'd be happy to share them. S&W replaced the gun. I won't shoot a non steel cylindered revolver anymore.

[Highland Ranger]

Not sure what te status of the gun is in this thread however -

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!

This gun has been RECALLED BY SMITH AND WESSON.

IT IS DANGEROUS TO FIRE - IF YOU OWN THIS GUN DO NOT FIRE IT, CONTACT S&W @ 1-800-331-0852 TO ARRANGE FOR RETURN AND TRADE.

see this thread for more information: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90291