45-70 reloads


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nick22
April 30, 2014, 11:22 PM
I have recently decided to begin reloading for my marlin 1895 45-70. For the obvious reasons cost and fun. But mainly so I can load it down enough for my 9 year old son to deer hunt with this fall. any load bullet combos would be great will probably end up hunting with hornady xtp but am thinking of lead bullets for practice this summer I have RCBS dies and IMR 3031 powder.

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kevinakaq
April 30, 2014, 11:51 PM
45 cal is such a large bullet i wouldnt hesistate to use the cast on your game. I am in same boat and just bought a handi rifle in 45-70 and having a blast working up loads for the lee 405 hp and 340 fn. i plan to hunt whitetails with one of these bullets at around the 1300 -1500 fps mark. Most likely bullet will pass through and at .45 size i dont see a problem dropping the meat with either bullet. While the handi will support a more powerful charge with a higher velocity i just dont see the need nor desire the recoil. I do believe your son would agree and you are spot on. I loaded the 405 with 42 grains varget and was maneagable and accurate. Did try some reloader 7 but recoil was snappy and more painful to me...jury is still out though.

Do you have manuals for this caliber and loads specifically for the lever? If not let me know and i could send you a few snapshots. What size cast are you planning to use? The Lee 340 fn would be my first choice in an inexpensive mold with good results, not to mention the lighter bullet would help with recoil.

Enjoy!

ArchAngelCD
May 1, 2014, 12:22 AM
You can't get away from physics, the 45-70 does have a lot of recoil even when downloaded because of the bullet weight.

IMO a 9 year old will be better served by a levergun in 30-30. You do not want to force bad habits on a young hunter and I feel he has a good chance of developing a flinch at only 9 years old. Heck, I have leverguns in 45-70 and 30-30 and I carry the 30-30 much more than the 45-70 when deer hunting.

PapaG
May 1, 2014, 12:52 AM
Sensible loads with a 300 grain bullet an unique will do the job.

greenmtnguy
May 1, 2014, 02:48 PM
It has been my experience that the slower moving, ~1400 FPS 400 grn Remington factory loads (and some of my reloads that duplicate those ballistics) seem to give more of a "push" than a "shove" as far as the sharpness of the recoil impulse goes, even though it has similar amount of recoil energy as the faster (~1800 FPS) 300 grain winchester factory loads. The faster lighter loads definitely do shoot with a less rainbow-like trajectory, and I tend to prefer the 300 grain Hornady XTP bullets loaded to about 2100 FPS so I can easily shoot to 200 yards or so without holdover, but loaded to that MV the recoil energy is right up there around 30+ pound feet in my Marlin 1895 and not good for a beginner.

Depending on the size of your young hunter and the field weight of the rifle setup, I'd load the same weight bullets for your practice sessions as for hunting, and if using 400 grain bullets load to the ~1300-1400 FPS MV of the old remington green box factory load, which has the "puuush" kind of recoil mentioned above, or load the 300 grain slugs down to the same or below the ~1800 FPS MV of the Winchester factory loads. Those 300 grain bullets will still easily take a whitetail if you launch them at 1500-1600 FPS - it just will be a tradeoff of trajectory versus recoil, and depending on how heavy your rifle is. I've had good success with H322 with the 300s and IMR4198 with the 400 grain loads in my Marlin. If you are going to ONLY use lead bullets, you can even use Trailboss to make a very low noise, low recoil "powder puff" load that will lob 400 grain lead bullets right around 1000 FPS. These would still take a deer at 100 yards, but I've only used them for targets and plinking at 50 yards and they'll be dropping alot at 100.

cpt-t
May 1, 2014, 09:47 PM
nick22: I have been shooting a Marlin 1895 45-70 for several years. And I am getting recoil sentivey, turn 70 this year. I have been using 35gr`s of IMR 3031 with a hardcast 405 gr RNFP bullet it will give you 1250 fps. This load is very comfortable to shoot, I use it for Cowboy Action Shooting and shoot it aloteach day. But I hunt with this load also, and have killed 3 deer and several pigs with it and a pick-up truck load of varmints with it. To be real honest, this is the only load I shoot any more. Have not lost any thing yet, and have not had to look for anything very far. Usually DRT or with in a few yards of where I shot them. Most of my shots are under a 100yds some less than 50yds. The 405gr RNFP Bullets feed extremly well in my Marlin 1895 but SWC type bullets don`t.
ken

KzooClaybuster
May 2, 2014, 01:16 PM
I've been loading .45-70 using 300gr and 405gr cast bullets for a few months now. Recoil is extremely light. Give it a try if you want reduced recoil loads. I would put the recoil in the neighborhood of a 20ga with light target loads.

ArchAngelCD
May 2, 2014, 01:27 PM
The recoil is "light" is a relative statement. What feels light to you, a grown man, probably won't feel light to a 9 year old boy.

Over 20 lbs of recoil to a 180lb man will feel very different than over 20 lbs of recoil to a 80lb young man.

greenmtnguy
May 3, 2014, 12:11 AM
By my calculations (from the Lyman manual) cpt's 400 grn, 1250 FPS load with IMR3031 in an 8 pound Marlin with 1/2 pound of scope added to it will have recoil energy of about 16 foot pounds. That is fairly similar to a standard 270Win in an 8 pound rifle as far as recoil energy goes, but from my experience, it definitely feels different as the sharpness of the recoil impulse is much harder it seems, in the 270Win than in the lumbering 45/70 load.

nick22
May 3, 2014, 08:02 AM
Thanks for all the responses guys I will hopefully be able to start working on a load this weekend. It will be the first year Oh has allowed straight walled cartridges for deer hunting, and I am very excited still thinking the leupold vx2 2-7 would be the right glass.

JerryND
May 3, 2014, 11:01 AM
Have not tried smokeless but Rem commercial or a full load of Pyrodex behind a 405 lead WILL get your attention in an 1884 Springfield. Even for a 200 + Lb adult. With the smaller stature of men of that vintage there must have been a lot of sore shoulders.

Drygulch
May 6, 2014, 03:01 PM
NICK;

Just for kicks, if you come across 45 long colt cast bullets(.451 t0 454) weighing around 245 to 265, try to paperpatch a few,use unique or trailboss, see how they work. Fast and minimumn recoil! I simply did one diagonal wrap of masking tape even with the upper groove, twisted the bottomL L/H and cut the tail off at the the base of the bullet. Lube the outside of the tape before installing the bullet in the beveled casemouth.
ROD

GaryL
May 7, 2014, 12:18 AM
IMO a 9 year old will be better served by a levergun in 30-30.
I would agree. My son shot his first deer with a 30-30 I bought specifically for him to hunt with. One shot kill that dropped in its tracks.

nick22
May 10, 2014, 11:37 PM
Unfortunately the 30-30 is not an approved round to hunt deer with in Ohio I still may look into a 44 mag lever gun.

Catshooter
May 11, 2014, 12:59 AM
Nick,

Don't give so easily.

Have him try some light loads, he may do fine. He may not, but then you'll know.

Out of my Handi rifle (which weighs less than your Marlin) nine or ten grains of Universal Clays (just about the same as Unique) gives me a very accurate load. Recoil of course is very light.


Cat

ArchAngelCD
May 11, 2014, 01:02 AM
Unfortunately the 30-30 is not an approved round to hunt deer with in Ohio I still may look into a 44 mag lever gun.
Nick, really???

One of the original deer guns in a cartridge that's over 100 years old is not allowed for deer hunting in Ohio? How can that be? I could understand the 22 Cal bullet but we are talking about a 30 Cal bullet, how id that possible?

ArchAngelCD
May 11, 2014, 01:32 AM
OK, using a 300gr Cast bullet you can load the 45-70 to Trapdoor pressures and the load will be light.

According to Lyman 4th Edition Cast Bullet Handbook:
29.0gr to 33.0gr AA5744 under a 300gr Cast bullet.
48.0gr to 53.0gr IMR3031 under a Cast bullet.

If the 45-70 levergun weighs 7.5lbs like the Marlin site says,
With the Min charge of AA5744 that load will generate 11.82 ft/lbs or recoil
With the Min charge of IMR3031 that load will generate 16.88 ft/lbs or recoil

As a comparison, using Lyman 47 load data in the same rifle, shooting a 300gr jacketed bullet with a Min charge of IMR3031 at Trapdoor pressures the recoil will be 14.35 ft/lbs of energy and the Min charge at Levergun pressures the recoil will be 17.26 ft/lbs.

As a further comparison, shooting a 405gr cast bullet with a min charge of IMR3031 from the same rifle will generate 15.53 ft/lbs of recoil.

A .243 Win firing 100gr BTSP bullet with a Min charge of IMR3031 will generate only 6.15 ft/lbs of recoil and 6.05 ft/lbs of recoil with a 90gr jacketed bullet.

Remember, all loads were calculated with the Min charge and fired from a 7.5 lb rifle.

Mel1776
May 19, 2014, 10:59 PM
All,

It appears that no rifle (except muzzle-loaders .38 caliber or greater) would be legal for hunting deer in Ohio.

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-trapping-and-shooting-sports/hunting-trapping-regulations/deer-hunting-regulations

Click the link above, open Allowable Hunting Equipment or page through their brochure from their home page.

Looks like .44 Mag handgun (5" min. bbl length) would be legal.

MB

Havok7416
May 20, 2014, 07:18 AM
Yes, rifles are not allowed in Ohio due to population density (and of course the law preventing them). They just recently allowed certain pistol caliber rifles. Pistols themselves have been legal as long as the caliber is .355 or better and the barrel length at least 5".

Reloadron
May 20, 2014, 08:28 AM
All,

It appears that no rifle (except muzzle-loaders .38 caliber or greater) would be legal for hunting deer in Ohio.

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-trapping-and-shooting-sports/hunting-trapping-regulations/deer-hunting-regulations

Click the link above, open Allowable Hunting Equipment or page through their brochure from their home page.

Looks like .44 Mag handgun (5" min. bbl length) would be legal.

MB
There have been several recent threads on this subject. ODNR needs to get their website current to reflect the new changes to Ohio's deer hunting regulations.

Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson. - See more at: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/straight-walled-cartridge-rifles-approved-hunting-white-tailed-deer-ohio#sthash.cHnDcClg.dpuf

The above quote taken from here (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/straight-walled-cartridge-rifles-approved-hunting-white-tailed-deer-ohio).

I also agree with ArchAngelCD in that while the 45-70 cartridge is a fine deer cartridge the felt recoil, even when downloaded, may be a little stout for a 9 year old new shooter. Here in Ohio a better option would be something along the lines of a 357 lever gun in my opinion.

Ron

Lj1941
May 20, 2014, 09:03 AM
Having a nine year old hunt with a 45-70 even downloaded is in my opinion not a good idea.As others have said the recoil could have such an effect on him that he could develope a flinch. Punishing recoil is not a good way to start a young man hunting. I would postpone his hunting until I could get him a sensible rifle.Just my humble opinion.:)

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