Colt Working to Bring New DA Revolver(s) to Market


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Cincinnatus
May 8, 2014, 12:03 PM
I know that it seems that this rumor gets spread around the internet once or twice a year, but this time the information comes from a reputable source.

Well known gun writer and revolver-smith Grant Cunningham stated on the most recent episode of the Gun Nation Podcast (Episode 98) that during his time at the NRA convention in Indianapolis he had a conversation at the Colt booth with a personal contact who works in production operations. He went on to say that, although he could not say many details yet, there is work currently being undertaken at Colt to bring one or more double action revolver to market.

He was quick to assure us that it absolutely WOULD NOT be the Python (no surprise to me) but could be something along the lines of the Magnum Carry, King Cobra, or Anaconda. He also said that there probably won't be any kind of announcement about the project anytime soon (I got the feeling it could be at least a year or two). Being a huge fan of revolvers, particularly those form Colt, I find this to be very exciting news.

If you want to hear the comments for yourself, go to gunnation.us, find episode 98 of the podcast, and listen starting around 51 minutes or so to get to that particular topic.

Thoughts?

Oh and by the way, hello everyone :)

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ATLDave
May 8, 2014, 12:11 PM
I'd love to see them bring back the detective special.

Sam1911
May 8, 2014, 12:16 PM
Hi and welcome!

You might be interested in this recent thread: King Cobra ... Who Will Buy One? (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=751007&highlight=king+cobra)

22-rimfire
May 8, 2014, 12:22 PM
Colt will wait until the concealed carry market for revolvers is saturated (It probably already is.) and then introduce a suitable revolver... about typical for Colt since the 1950's.

If they bring something out, I'll take a look at it.

DPris
May 8, 2014, 12:23 PM
Look again in 2015 or 2016.
All I can say on it. :)
Denis

Analogkid
May 8, 2014, 01:55 PM
Id certainly look at a a pocket .38 if they bring it back out..

CraigC
May 8, 2014, 02:52 PM
I'll give `em a shot if it looks good but I ain't holdin' my breath. ;)

BSA1
May 8, 2014, 05:00 PM
Yawn...

Colt abandon the civilian handgun market many years ago save the Government Model & SAA.

The market is well covered by other companies products. Revolvers are very well covered by S&W and Taurus.

The old action which makes Colts revolvers so nice is cost prohibitive to make due to labor costs. This means a redesigned gun intended for what market?

Sorry but you need more than somebody at Colt said this and it is a secret.

Oh and you are still welcome to THR.

Vodoun da Vinci
May 8, 2014, 05:09 PM
I'd love to see them bring back the detective special.

Roger that...a new Detective Special especially in stainless? I'd be all over that.

VooDoo

Dframe
May 8, 2014, 05:20 PM
Not holding my breath. This rumor goes around at least once a year. When of IF Colt ever makes a DA revolver again (ESPECIALLY a Detective size) I'll be all over it. But I figure I have LOTS of time to save up my money!

aarondhgraham
May 8, 2014, 05:27 PM
My question would be,,,

Why?

As in why do they think they can re-enter the revolver market?

Aarond

.

AFDavis11
May 8, 2014, 05:32 PM
Can someone enlighten me? The only Colt revolver I would consider is a Python. Why is it the one gun they wouldn't re-introduce?

Deaf Smith
May 8, 2014, 05:33 PM
Colt Working to Bring New DA Revolver(s) to Market

Bring back the MAGNUM CARRY!!!

With red insert front sight, 2 inch barrel, six shooter, no 'trigger lock'.

See few pack Pythons or King Cobras, but for CCW, snub revolvers are still very much used.

And yep, even with all my snubbies, I promises you I'll get one!

Deaf

Hometeached1
May 8, 2014, 05:41 PM
Bring back the MAGNUM CARRY!!!
^^^^ This.
Welcome to THR Cincinnatus! :)

RustyShackelford
May 8, 2014, 05:42 PM
The "will Colt make new DA revolvers soon" posts were discussed a few weeks ago. :rolleyes:
I think Colt making & marketing new DA revolvers in the USA in the next 5 years or so is about as likely as Kate Upton knocking on my door in a string bikini. :D

It's nice to think it could happen. But will it happen anytime soon?

no

DPris
May 8, 2014, 10:00 PM
Expect something in 2015, possibly 2016 if things take a little longer than planned.
It will not be any revolver with the older V-Spring actions, for reasons discussed ad nauseum here & elsewhere.

This is not just an Internet rumor.
Denis

Jim K
May 8, 2014, 10:10 PM
But will it happen anytime soon?

Sure, sometime after the Second Coming.

Jim

DPris
May 8, 2014, 10:23 PM
See above.
Believe or don't.
Grant has a good relationship with Colt & he's not the only one who talks to them about such things. :)
Denis

HexHead
May 8, 2014, 10:28 PM
Roger that...a new Detective Special especially in stainless? I'd be all over that.

VooDoo
Why not just go buy one with the classic action then? I've got two of them, but mine are blued.

HexHead
May 8, 2014, 10:30 PM
Can someone enlighten me? The only Colt revolver I would consider is a Python. Why is it the one gun they wouldn't re-introduce?
Because it wouldn't be a Python. If you want one so bad, go buy one. There are plenty out there.

Jim K
May 8, 2014, 10:45 PM
So it is a matter of faith and belief? I don't think I will hold my breath.

Jim

DPris
May 8, 2014, 10:52 PM
If you can't take a strong hint, then let it ride & keep an eye on the headlines next year. :)
Denis

22-rimfire
May 8, 2014, 10:58 PM
Because it wouldn't be a Python. If you want one so bad, go buy one. There are plenty out there.

The Mark III and Mark IV action is pretty darn good. I would put my Trooper Mark III against any Python I have owned in terms of accuracy and function. That doesn't make it a Python, it just makes it a much better revolver than what was commonly believed back in the 1980's.

AFDavis, if you have never shot a Trooper Mark III or King Cobra (anything in that frame size), you might check one out. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

DPris, I will be watching for the headlines. I can't hold my breath that long, but I would love to see Colt come out with a DA revolver. If nothing else, it most likely means they can continue to work on their older products.

benzy2
May 8, 2014, 11:24 PM
If you can't take a strong hint, then let it ride & keep an eye on the headlines next year.
Denis

Nothing personal, but short of a press release from Colt stating they are coming, it's just the same internet rumor from a guy with simply a first name. You have zero credibility as a semi-annonomous poster on an open forum. Short of listing your full name as well as your significance as a decision maker with Colt, your word is as believable as the people that post they heard it will happen in 2115. I'm not trying to be insulting to you personally, simply that a guy named Denis posting on an Internet forum is as reliable as a guy posting he knows the world will end tomorrow, or that I can sell you the secrets to becoming a Millionaire for $49.99.

DPris
May 8, 2014, 11:52 PM
Benzy,
Yep, if you don't know who I am, you have no need to pay any attention to anything I say.
Enough on this one.

Wait & see.
Denis

JohnBT
May 9, 2014, 06:27 AM
"You have zero credibility"

You should listen to him more and talk less. ;) That's been my experience.

CraigC
May 9, 2014, 10:18 AM
...as likely as Kate Upton knocking on my door in a string bikini.
I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought. What were we talking about again????


You have zero credibility as a semi-annonomous poster on an open forum.
Open mouth, insert foot......all the way. :scrutiny:

Vodoun da Vinci
May 9, 2014, 02:14 PM
Not to be inflammatory but I guess I'm the only one who goes back a researches specific posters and forumites to ascertain credibility on the forum in question and on The 'Net in general.

We are all just 'Talking Heads" and "Monkeys with a Keyboard". Or not. :rolleyes:

VooDoo

Drail
May 9, 2014, 02:29 PM
deleted

Radagast
May 9, 2014, 02:46 PM
benzy2:
I would expect DPris to read the press release. After all, that's what he does for a living - write about guns in the gun press.

Often a press release will be embargoed - not to be published until a certain date or until stock or samples are available. I'm guessing that something like that is the case here.

Whether Colt comes good is another matter. The gun industry has seen its fair share of vapourware.

mackg
May 9, 2014, 04:16 PM
A gun writer recently had an article published in which he said that he had seen some revolvers on a bench at Colt's; he was told something could be expected.
Sorry I cannot remember his name and the publication.

This reminds me of John Taffin visiting Colt some ten or more years ago.
He then posted on his or JimT's Forum about Colt's 3-Bullets plan regarding the revolver market.
I only remember "for sure" nr 2 and 3, but it went along the lines of:
- Keep the Anaconda
- Introduce a new Single Action
- Re-introduce the New Service...

1 and 2 happened, the New Service thing was scrapped; ...unless I blinked and missed it :).

So who knows for sure... It wouldn't be the first time they try or cancel...

...And I vote for the BOA!

Dframe
May 9, 2014, 04:33 PM
two years ago I was told (by a colt employee) at the All Colt show that they were considering it but no deceision had been made. Like I said. I'm NOT holding my breath. Just hoping it happens before I die.

gulogulo1970
May 10, 2014, 01:50 AM
I'll would love to buy a Colt Magnum Carry. That didn't cost $1500 plus like the used ones online.

Peter M. Eick
May 10, 2014, 08:11 AM
The real question I see is will folks cough up the change necessary to buy a Colt?

This has been the ongoing question in my mind which I assume is probably why Colt has delayed so long in bringing one back. Yes the used market is up but (as DPris has pointed out above) it won't be a V spring Colt. So will folks really spend the money on what Colt brings out or not is the question.

I view my Colt's as shooters. I like blasting away with my Diamondback's, Python's and the detective special but would I buy a new Colt? It is hard to say. I would have to see how it fits into my collection and what it offers. Once you move into a new firearm over a collectible, the whole game changes in my mind and you have to weight the revolver against any other new gun.

There are a lot of nice new ones on the shelves so Colt better really do some great engineering and production to compete.

Radagast
May 11, 2014, 12:27 AM
Personally, no. I've never really been interested in Colts DA offerings. A SAA is on my wish list, but the funds have never been available when one comes up.

Barry the Bear
May 11, 2014, 12:30 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I needed a laugh, that made my day

brutus51
May 11, 2014, 04:36 PM
I think it’s an excellent marketing strategy. Currently Smith Ruger and Taurus are the key players (not discounting charter arms). With Taurus we have quality issues, with Ruger we have big, heavy and the build of a Sherman tank instead of a swiss watch. With Smith you get the swiss watch action along with a lock nobody wants. I always preferred Colt over Smith’s in a Chevy vs. Ford kind of way and would really welcome a competitively priced offering from Colt and who knows if they take back enough of the market share maybe Smith will do away with the stupid lock.
By the way others are keeping an eye this market as I understand CZ is bringing back the Dan Wesson .357 later this summer. It’s number one on my list.

Jim K
May 11, 2014, 04:37 PM
If/when Colt does re-introduce a DA revolver line, their biggest competition will not be Ruger or S&W, it will be the old Colts. Fans of the old Colts will probably never accept any other design, yet reproducing the old guns is out of the question for the same reason production was stopped the first time.

I remember when Colt brought out the "new" guns, old-time Colt fans not only didn't accept them with joy, they trashed them, denouncing Colt in the terms used for the S&W internal lock. Even though Colt tried very hard to retain the feel of the old guns, gun store gurus complained that they didn't feel "right", that they were poor copies of S&W's, etc., etc.

Maybe there will be enough buyers who don't remember the "old" Colts, or who will buy on the name to make the new line a success. But I cannot help but wonder, if Colt does bring out a new OP, a new DS or a new whatever, the folks on here who say they want one will turn up with cash or turn up their noses. I suspect it will be the latter.

Jim

brutus51
May 11, 2014, 06:36 PM
Jim K,
I find your remarks to be 100% spot on but only for us old farts who have had the opportunity to experience the lock work found on the old Colt's. In this new world of tupperware semi's I think people considering a revolver are looking for something either small, compact and 100% reliable for concealed carry or an extremely accurate tool utilizing more powerful ammunition than can be found in a semi.
In that respect when one thinks of a revolver it's generally considered for wood's use as self defense against deadly predators or as a hunting tool. I guess what I'm trying to say is a Glock 19 is kind of like a Ford Taurus , while a quality 1911 is more like a corvette and a Colt python or model 27 Smith is like a Duesenburg or a Rolls Royce. I would view a Colt Trooper or Annoconda as kind of a 1967 GTO and a 1969 442. I would be very happy with either one. My only problem with the new model 27's is it's kind of like buying that 442 with a wheel boot attached.

Old Fuff
May 11, 2014, 07:04 PM
If/when Colt does re-introduce a DA revolver line, their biggest competition will not be Ruger or S&W, it will be the old Colts. Fans of the old Colts will probably never accept any other design, yet reproducing the old guns is out of the question for the same reason production was stopped the first time.

Absolutely so! The will also have a problem making an "acceptable" new revolver that costs less then one of the original kind of the same (more or less) model on the second hand market.

I am waiting to see what the faithful fans will pay out in big-bucks for a revolver that is CNC machined, and filled with MIM lockwork!!! :what: What if they include an internal lock? :uhoh: Dare I say the word, "Polymer?" :cuss:

Of course they conld go the other way, and price (whatever) up with the Single Action Army. But if they go over $600 the market size will drop sharply. Also they will have an awful lot of development, tooling and marketing costs to work off against just so many sales.

Cooldill
May 11, 2014, 07:10 PM
If they bring out the Dick Special, especially in SS, count me. Same for the magnum carry.

I'd also be interested in a King Cobra if the cost isn't prohibitive.

-Cooldill

Deltaboy
May 11, 2014, 07:31 PM
If they come back I will try and get one.

ArchAngelCD
May 11, 2014, 07:55 PM
By the time Colt brings out a new DA revolver ammo will be so expensive we probably won't be able to afford either.

barnbwt
May 11, 2014, 08:54 PM
It kills me that you folks think the Colt won't have an internal lock, as well! :D :p

TCB

jimbo555
May 12, 2014, 08:36 AM
When it comes out, I'll buy one!

MrBorland
May 12, 2014, 09:59 AM
if/when colt does re-introduce a da revolver line, their biggest competition will not be ruger or s&w, it will be the old colts. Fans of the old colts will probably never accept any other design,


absolutely so!

I'll respectfully disagree. Ardent Colt/S&W revolver fans may be clarion on internet forums, but they represent a tiny fraction of the overall revolver market. S&W, for instance, does quite well selling their current revos to the general public.

Old Fuff
May 12, 2014, 11:54 AM
I'll respectfully disagree. Ardent Colt/S&W revolver fans may be clarion on internet forums, but they represent a tiny fraction of the overall revolver market. S&W, for instance, does quite well selling their current revos to the general public.

Actually we are in agreement – at least mostly so. At this point I’m not sure exactly what market Colt is looking at – if any. So far the suggestion has been (where revolvers are concerned), medium/large and large frame Magnums. The fans (at least on this forum) seem to be mostly interested in smaller frame snubbies.

Whatever they do (if anything) at this point Colt has to start from scratch. It’s clean-piece-of-paper time, with all that implies in design, development, tooling, and marketing costs – and the total could be considerable. Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus have gone through this and amortized the costs over past sales. They also for practical purposes have between them 99% market share of the pie. So where is Colt’s best (maybe only) chance of getting a share of that pie, given the circumstances working against them?

Personally, I don’t think the company’s higher corporate management above the handgun operation is particularly bright. In recent years they have barely survived by selling a limited number of Single Action Army and 1911 platform guns at carriage trade prices to mostly older fans that could, and would (pardon the pun) “pony up the bucks.” This is not to say that the customers didn’t get their money’s worth, just that it took a lot to get what they got.

If they are going to expand what they now offer and introduce something entirely new, and that “something” is aimed at what presently constitutes they’re customer base, they’ll have to meet those potential buyers expectations – which are frankly very high. It remains to be seen if they can pull it off, but those buyers are for the most part unimpressed (I’m being kind here), with current-day manufacturing technologies. Otherwise they’ll be up against substantial and entrenched competition from the big three (Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus) in a larger marketplace.

Dain Bramage
May 12, 2014, 12:10 PM
And here's an opinion from a non-fanboi. I used to own a Trooper MkIII, and have fired other Colts. Always considered myself an S&W man.

I would buy a Colt DA revolver if it offered something in a niche that I wanted, at a non-insane price. I don't want to relive the vaunted lockwork, or compare it to jewels from the past. I don't want a new museum piece, because the old museum pieces are too expensive. S&W tried that with their classics line, and I wouldn't touch one with a ten-foot pole.

This:

If they bring out the Dick Special, especially in SS, count me. Same for the magnum carry.

Old Fuff
May 12, 2014, 12:37 PM
I would buy a Colt DA revolver if it offered something in a niche that I wanted, at a non-insane price.

Yup, I would say that describes a lot of potential buyers. The problem is that they don't march in lockstep (meaning they have different niches), and different perspectives on what is, or isn't "non-insane prices."

Would you say for example, "That the price should be around the same as a similar Smith & Wesson or Ruger?" More? How much more? Less? What?

PabloJ
May 12, 2014, 02:58 PM
I would part with good amount of cash for top opening Schofield type revolver with Webley-Scott type auto-ejector system and holstering fins. I would not care for re-introduction of any DA models Colt made in the past.

Cincinnatus
May 12, 2014, 03:08 PM
Nothing personal, but short of a press release from Colt stating they are coming, it's just the same internet rumor from a guy with simply a first name. You have zero credibility as a semi-annonomous poster on an open forum. Short of listing your full name as well as your significance as a decision maker with Colt, your word is as believable as the people that post they heard it will happen in 2115. I'm not trying to be insulting to you personally, simply that a guy named Denis posting on an Internet forum is as reliable as a guy posting he knows the world will end tomorrow, or that I can sell you the secrets to becoming a Millionaire for $49.99.
Sure, neither you nor myself know what Mr. Dennis's credentials are, but Grant Cunningham, the source of this information, has just about the strongest credentials that you can find when it comes to revolvers and has quite literally written the book on revolver shooting fundamentals, defensive revolver shooting, revolver smithing, etc.

Actually Grant himself has very recently joked, same as many of you here, about how bored he is getting bored with these same old rumors about Colt DA revolvers coming back. So for him to all of a sudden do a 180 would require some pretty concrete information in my opinion.

Dennis is obviously familiar with Grant and therefore I think we can safely assume that he isn't just some random guy who doesn't have any clue about the subject.

I can certainly understand the skepticism given the nature of these rumors recently. I suppose in the end only time will tell.

Cincinnatus
May 12, 2014, 03:37 PM
Thanks for the welcome.

It is true that the old Colt actions were very expensive to produce, and that is why it was stated that the Python will not be coming back. However, this is why Colt developed the Mark III and Mark V pistols with a completely different action that was much cheaper/easier to produce. I believe that the King Cobra and Anaconda utilized this same action which is why I believe they are more likely candidates for resurrection.

Also regarding the revolver market in general, I would agree with some of the comments made here that the two largest competitors will be S&W and Ruger. Although I'm sure there are some out there that run like clockwork, in general Taurus simply is not making revolvers to the same quality standard as Smith and Wesson, Ruger, and Colt's last designs. Ruger generally makes a very robust and functional revolver and will continue to do well, however I feel that both the exterior and interior fit and finish of Ruger does not quite match S&W. And when looking at S&W, even some of there more recent revolver offerings have left me a bit unimpressed. For example the re-introduced Model 66 has a quality level nowhere near as good as the original examples.

I think that Colt could definitly find some market share if they play to their strength and focus on quality, even if they are still at a somewhat higher price point than their compeitors. Just look at their 1911 offerings. I would argue that the 1911 market is even more crowded than that of revolvers right now, and yet even with a price point higher than many of their competitors (for example Springfield) it seems as though their sales are still hanging in there.

Dain Bramage
May 12, 2014, 03:45 PM
More? How much more? Less? What?

As you say, we don't march in lockstep. That number will have to be decided by each of us.

I personally think the Colt name still has enough cachet to support a premium above S&W and Ruger. They definitely won't win the low price knife-fight with Taurus or Charter Arms.

They need to come up with an exceptionally well-functioning DA revolver right out the gate. Probably something based on their last coil-spring design, but updated for modern machining methods.

I think going for a classic design, like the Python, would be a mistake. It would always come up short in comparison with legacy guns, either on price point or quality.

Old Fuff
May 12, 2014, 03:45 PM
I would part with good amount of cash for top opening Schofield type revolver with Webley-Scott type auto-ejector system and holstering fins.

Well I'm sure that some would go along with you. The trouble is that the total number wouldn't produce enough sales to pay for the necessary new tooling. :uhoh:

Old Fuff
May 12, 2014, 04:20 PM
However, this is why Colt developed the Mark III and Mark V pistols with a completely different action that was much cheaper/easier to produce. I believe that the King Cobra and Anaconda utilized this same action which is why I believe they are more likely candidates for resurrection.

These revolvers that mostly date from the middle 1980's to the mid-1990's were less expensive to produce then earlier ones that dated back to around 1908. However they still weren't inexpensive to make, and Colt found themselves with yet another non-competitive line. If they were duplicated now they would cost more (like everything else) then they did then. Today they can't be "resurrected" without being completely retooled, and that would be costly unless consumer demand was sizeable.

Also the total market for mid/large frame revolvers chambered to use magnum cartridges has substantially shrunk. They have been replaced with Polymer-constructed/high-cap magazine pistols; as law enforcement changed directions and many other buyers followed they’re example.

Unless the new offering(s) were total junk, which is unlikely, early sales might be encouraging, but to succeed Colt must have a sustained market over a long term; or sell an ordinary product at custom gun prices.

SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE
May 12, 2014, 04:31 PM
Unless they are planning an eight to ten shot .22 with an alloy or polymer frame and 4inch barrel , my revolver needs have been filled by my Rugers ! Kevin

Barry the Bear
May 12, 2014, 06:43 PM
Its all he said she said until that damn pony speaks for itself. No one besides the current incarnation of Colt can say what theyre doing right now not even Samuel himself .

Old Fuff
May 12, 2014, 08:38 PM
No one besides the current incarnation of Colt can say what theyre doing right now not even Samuel himself .

When I see him I'll ask Sam.... :what: ;)

MikeJackmin
May 12, 2014, 09:06 PM
I'd love to see what they come up with and I'll wish them the best of luck, but I'll be honest and say that I can't imagine any product they could reasonably offer that I'd be likely to buy.

Whatever they do (if anything) at this point Colt has to start from scratch. It’s clean-piece-of-paper time, with all that implies in design, development, tooling, and marketing costs – and the total could be considerable. Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus have gone through this and amortized the costs over past sales.

That's the killer, right there.

Any given revolver that they make - if it was made with no more, and no less, than the level of workmanship we currently see from S&W - would be significantly more expensive than the comparable S&W offering. A medium-frame 357? A snub? A big 44? In each case, their guns would cost more, for the same level of finish and fit.

Unless they can bring some sort of real innovation to the table, they have no competitive advantage here at all.

Barry the Bear
May 12, 2014, 09:17 PM
When I see him I'll ask Sam.... :what: ;)
Haha you know what I mean

Old Fuff
May 13, 2014, 12:14 AM
Unless they can bring some sort of real innovation to the table, they have no competitive advantage here at all.

In the past, (and the Old Fuff has a long memory), they have moved toward a higher-end/carriage trade product - and charged for it. All this on the presumption that if it says "COLT" people will buy it.

Sometimes this worked, and sometimes it didn’t, but if enough people didn’t that was the end of it. Colt’s number crunchers’ are an unforgiving bunch. :uhoh:

ArchAngelCD
May 13, 2014, 12:35 AM
IMO anything with the Colt name on it will cost way too much just like everything they sell even when that product does not deliver a level of quality worthy of that price.

Vodoun da Vinci
May 13, 2014, 07:58 AM
I dunno....I have 3 Colt pieces and all of them are extraordinary and well worth the price asked for them. I guess that perspective (value) is relative to a lot of folks. I'd personally pay premium $ for another new Colt piece.

But that's just me. A new DS especially in stainless I'd pay an awful lot of money for.

VooDoo

jimbo555
May 13, 2014, 08:11 AM
The products Colt is putting out now look like high quality to me. I agree a stainless D.S. would be great even an updated design. Just a 6 shot concealable snubby would be something!

Old Fuff
May 13, 2014, 11:31 AM
If I was going to play pick & choose I’d place the 6-shot/.38 Special/2” snubby at the top of the page too. However if it were priced at a noticeable difference above what I could buy an excellent + original Detective Special for I’d think twice. Also there is a question: Just how big is the 6-shot market over present 5-shot offerings from others if the former is more expensive?

In past years Colt’s advertising made a big issue over their 6th-shot. But S&W’s little J-frames still sold circles around them.

Frankly, Colt doesn’t give a hoot about what members of various gun-related forums want. What counts is how much penetration can they make into the overall market. This is a much harder nut to crack given the degree that they’re competitors are entrenched. Also if they were successful wouldn’t those companies react with something to counter it?

Look up Smith & Wesson’s model 73, built on the C-frame. (.38 Special/6-shot/snubby; Intended to counter Colt’s D-frame revolvers). Ultimately they never bothered to put it into production.

Jim K
May 13, 2014, 03:33 PM
When I worked in a gun shop, I had a customer who repeatedly touted the small Colts over S&W's. His oft-repeated line was "You can't carry a five-shot revolver, what if there are six of 'em?"

I finally got tired of that line and responded, "What if there are seven of 'em?"

He just stood there. The idea that there could always be more of "'em" than he had shots had never occurred to him.

Jim

Old Fuff
May 13, 2014, 04:02 PM
His oft-repeated line was "You can't carry a five-shot revolver, what if there are six of 'em?"

Personally, if they're a lot less then five of 'um I will be gone in quick order... :uhoh: :D

MCgunner
May 13, 2014, 04:38 PM
Wondering how much of the price will be for the gun and how much will be for the name?

brutus51
May 13, 2014, 06:42 PM
I really like the sound of a stainless DS especially if it had a transfer bar so all 6 rounds could be carried. I think, the recent concealed carry situation would make it their best seller. The one I would jump hoops to get my hands on would be a .45 Colt Anaconda with .451/.452" throats. I've wanted one of these ever since they first came out but could never find an example with throats smaller than .454 and that was just one chamber in the cylinder another chamber went to .456.

Jaymo
May 13, 2014, 07:24 PM
I'd like a New Service in any caliber starting with 4.
I'd be fine with it using Mk 3 or 5 lockwork.
I'd like a new Trooper.
I'd like a King Cobra.
I'd like any new D frame.
A Diamondback with Mk 3 or 5 lockwork wouldn't hurt my feelings, either.
Especially since I can't seem to get my hands on a 2" Smith 15.
The Anaconda would be fine, too.
I just don't really NEED another .44 mag revolver.
Not that it would stop me from getting one, mind you.

I'd even be happy with the Python being resurrected with Mk 3 lockwork and a factory action job. Very happy.

I'd be really happy with a King Cobra, minus that stupid cobra head on the barrel.

Dick Special or Magnum Carry, or SF-VI would make me happy.

Old Fuff
May 13, 2014, 09:09 PM
I really like the sound of a stainless DS especially if it had a transfer bar so all 6 rounds could be carried.

Since about 1908 Colt double-action / hand ejector revolvers (including all of the Detective Specials) have had not one, but two, independent mechanical safeties that made them 100% safe to carry fully loaded.

Post 1970 models had a single transfer bar safety, but were still safe to carry with the hammer resting down on a loaded chamber.

If it is unaltered, in good mechanical condition, there is no good reason to not carry Colt double-action / hand ejector's full loaded - regardless of what model they are. :cool:

AbitNutz
May 14, 2014, 06:58 AM
Unless it's the revolver Colt should have made 40 to 50 years ago, a Pythonized New Service Shooting Master in 41 and 44 mag...I'm not interested.

Ok, going back to my old curmudgeon corner....

RugRev
May 14, 2014, 12:36 PM
I would like to see a gun the size of the D frame with the new lockwork and able to take .357 e.g. .357 Diamondback, Mag Carry. A 5" bbl Anaconda like model in .44 mag/.45 Colt would be nice, too. I think the D frame size would fill a void in the market as there would be nothing quite that size.

Another option would be to come out with a frame size able to take 7 shot cylinder in .357 and 5 shot in .44 Special/.44 Mag and maybe .45 Colt.

4v50 Gary
May 14, 2014, 06:09 PM
I can see them bringing back a MK III Trooper type action. It's easier to build and service than the "V" spring Python/Diamondback action.

There's only a handful of gunsmiths and armorers who know how to work on the latter. Now imagine trying to train a workforce of assemblers to build them. That's even worse.

Peter M. Eick
May 17, 2014, 05:57 AM
That is kind of what I thought they would do. The MKIII is a decent design and if they execute it well they probably can go head to head with S&W and Ruger for a chunk of the quality revolver market.

What would be curious if they can adjust the MKIII action design to a cosmetically look alike to the Python/Diamondback/Detective Special trio.

That would be an interesting chain of events and would probably result in a sale to me for a shooter quality Diamondback/Python that I would not have to worry about beating it out of time.

I just did not like the styling of the MKIII.

Mayvik
May 17, 2014, 03:04 PM
How about a 3" D-Frame in .327 magnum with 7 holes, while we are dreaming?

larryh1108
May 18, 2014, 07:35 AM
You have zero credibility as a semi-annonomous poster on an open forum

That's your opinion and I am sure there are many thousands here who disagree with your statement. If you've been here over 6 years with over 2,000 posts and don't know who Denis is, you either don't read much here or just doubt everything in your life.

As for Colt's market, I'd be willing to bet that a Colt revolver would appeal to the people who buy the name, as long as it is a quality piece. I don't think it would be smart to try to revive a retired line. They would be smart to offer it in stainless as well as their premium deep blue polished finish which, IMO, is second to none. The Colt name plus their premium blueing in a desirable size should create a large market without much fanfare. Of course, it has to perform as good as it looks or it will not last long.

Peter M. Eick
May 18, 2014, 08:03 AM
Good summary Larry of what they would have to do. You have really captured my thoughts of what they will do. I just hope they consider doing something more retro looking. I take it as a given that it will not be an old style V action and more a MKIII design, but good bluing, good quality and decent styling would be a winner.

brutus51
May 18, 2014, 08:10 AM
Given the patent has probably run out, I think interchangeable barrels would cinch it for them. Kind of surprised no one else besides CZ has thought of this.

buck460XVR
May 18, 2014, 11:33 AM
As I mentioned on another forum thread on this same subject, the revolver market is very limited when it comes to interest in DA revolvers and that interest is already being acknowledge by several good manufacturers. There's a reason Colt quit making DA revolvers. Much of the demand for the older Colt DA revolvers is driven by the fact they aren't available anymore and are being bought by folks buying them as a collector investment and not as a shooter. In order to compete in this limited market, it's hard to imagine Colt could produce an affordable shooter revolver that did not include CNC and MIM parts. This is not a bad thing, only something that Colt purists will not like.(similar to the series 80 1911s). While I think Colt can and will produce a DA revolver, I think it will be similar to the re-introduced Dan Wessons. While there were hoards of folk claiming they would buy a new DW when it hit the market, when the revolver finally did hit the market, and folks considered what they were getting for the monies asked, the demand waned. Collectors will rush to get the new Colts when they are first re-introduced. Colt fanboys will buy they regardless of price and quality. Whether they will go over well and continue to be produced continuously again will depend on quality, reliability, accuracy and customer service relative to price. These are the factors most folks looking for a shooter revolver today are looking for. It's good for DA revolver lovers that Colt is coming back into the market. The competition is always a good thing. Since the biggest demand for DA revolvers is in small SD type weapons, I assume this will be one of the initial offerings.

Vmathes
May 18, 2014, 09:05 PM
Can I just chime in here that I would LOVE if Colt did a re-introduction of the large-frame New Service, like S&W did a few years back with the SChofield? Keep the numbers low and labor costs high so it rivals the originals, and they'd sell them all.

oss117
May 18, 2014, 09:10 PM
Since they will be starting over with new people, new machines, etc. I hope Colt re-thinks the whole DA revolver concept and comes up with something completely new and modern. The traditionalists may not like it, but the younger people who are discovering revolvers will. Enough living in the past. Ruger started it with the LCR. Colt can take it to a new level.

Vodoun da Vinci
May 18, 2014, 09:25 PM
Wow...I didn't think of that. What if Colt decided to go "Rogue" and *not* do what was expected of them and try and remake old Colt designs. What if they did something like Ruger did with the LCR?

I'm almost more excited by that concept than a new DS in stainless. Colt remakes themselves and comes out with a whole new line of cool stuff never seen before, new and fresh and all 21st Century.

How cool would that be?

VooDoo

Old Fuff
May 18, 2014, 10:57 PM
Several years ago Colt dumped their entire Archive Collection (Prototypes, selected production models, proposed new models, - everything that would be needed to restart production) at a major auction. By that time obsolute tooling was long-gone. This act was seen by industry watchers as solid proof of their intention of never going back to what once was. Obviously some of the posts on this thread show that not all folks got the message.

I am not sure what they may come up with (if anything) but it will unquestionably be something that is entirely new.

CraigC
May 18, 2014, 11:06 PM
Whether or not it will be any good remains to be seen but either way, it will definitely be interesting to see what develops. If anything.

Jim K
May 19, 2014, 09:51 PM
They could do what other companies have done - contract with S&W, DW, Ruger, IJ, or whomever to make guns marked "Colt" with some minor cosmetic changes.

Jim

Deaf Smith
May 19, 2014, 10:37 PM
Several years ago Colt dumped their entire Archive Collection (Prototypes, selected production models, proposed new models, - everything that would be needed to restart production) at a major auction. By that time obsolute tooling was long-gone. This act was seen by industry watchers as solid proof of their intention of never going back to what once was. Obviously some of the posts on this thread show that not all folks got the message.

I am not sure what they may come up with (if anything) but it will unquestionably be something that is entirely new.


With CNC machinery they can duplicate any of the old stuff real quick.

Deaf

Old Fuff
May 20, 2014, 12:46 PM
With CNC machinery they can duplicate any of the old stuff real quick.

It's not that easy. CNC machines have to be programmed to produce a certain part. Also a lot of the smaller parts that were in the last production were purchased from sub-contractors - who may or may not be in a position to duplicate them today, and because of past problems may demand payment "up front".

Among other things, Colt dumped the selected production samples of those revolvers that would have otherwise been used to facilitate reintroduction.

Last but not least, I doubt that they'd want to "duplicate any of the old stuff," because the resulting product wouldn't be competitive in today's market. So far as that goes, they weren't competitive back when they were being made before.

It would appear that they propose to re-enter a market where their market share today is zero. That to say the least is a challenge.

JohnBT
May 20, 2014, 04:30 PM
"With CNC machinery they can duplicate any of the old stuff real quick."

Weren't a number of those old parts made oversized so they could be fitted by hand to work with the other oversized parts? Some parts performed more than one function too, complicating the fitting required.

Cranking out parts on a machine is fine, Fabbri does it for $200k shotguns, but the parts still have to be fitted and finished. He bought their first computerized machine in 1974 fwiw.

Old Fuff
May 20, 2014, 07:09 PM
Weren't a number of those old parts made oversized so they could be fitted by hand to work with the other oversized parts? Some parts performed more than one function too, complicating the fitting required.

Yes and no... :confused: :D

Colt's revolvers that were introduced around 1905 -1908 were the ones where several parts were made oversized at some points so there was material to allow hand fitting. At the time this resulted in guns that were far better fitted then is the case now. However over time skilled labor became so expensive that Colt could no longer compete in the marketplace.

So starting in 1969-70 they started to discontinue those, and replace them with new models that were designed to eliminate most of the handwork. Parts were simply installed for the most part, and then the gun went out the door. Even so, the new guns were not truly competitive, and acceptance was not what they hoped it would be.

Stephanie B
May 21, 2014, 11:58 AM
I guess we'll see what Colt does when they do it.

Right now the carry revolver quality level seems to run: Armscor < Taurus < Charter < Smith. Colt might try to drop in at the top end; for there seems to be a reasonable enough demand for ~$1,000 1911s and other self-stuffers to justify a decent carry revolver at that price point.

Or not. WTFDIK, really? :D

MikeFrank
May 21, 2014, 02:15 PM
Detective Special? Me, too!

Stephanie B
May 21, 2014, 04:54 PM
If they do make a snubbie, I hope that the grip frame at least has the same dimensions as the Detective Special.

Then maybe Crimson Trace will make grips for it.

oss117
May 21, 2014, 05:34 PM
I guess we'll see what Colt does when they do it.

Right now the carry revolver quality level seems to run: Armscor < Taurus < Charter < Smith.

There are those Rugers too...;)
I'm not sure which side of Smith they would fall on.

Stephanie B
May 21, 2014, 06:15 PM
I guess we'll see what Colt does when they do it.

Right now the carry revolver quality level seems to run: Armscor < Taurus < Charter < Smith.
There are those Rugers too...
I'm not sure which side of Smith they would fall on.

I forgot about Ruger. I shot a LCR at one range trip and I wasn't impressed. But then again, I like steel-framed guns and the LCR was tending towards "hurting on one end, killing on the other". I'd probably feel the same way towards an Airweight.

Got to shoot a Security Six once. It was built like a Russian tank, but it was no Model 19/27.

Maybe Ruger would be between Smith & Charter, but a heck of a lot closer to a Smith?

JohnBT
May 21, 2014, 06:30 PM
"Yes and no... "

You're right, I thought this was the Python thread. :)

SlamFire1
May 21, 2014, 06:37 PM
Even if this is an internet rumor, I hope it becomes true. It would be a good thing if Colt produced a new, and decent, double action revolver. It can't use the Python lockworks, too expensive and requires too much handfiling, but there are lots of other options.

Cooldill
May 21, 2014, 11:34 PM
This is all just speculation.

I've seen more than one thread on the internet claiming Colt was going to reintroduce DA revolvers to the market. Usually the OP is "well informed" or whatever.

I won't believe ONE SINGLE WORD of it until that pretty little prancing pony himself speaks! In the mean time, I'll invest my money in revolvers emblazoned with a big ugly looking dragon-bird Phoenix type thing. :)

evan price
May 21, 2014, 11:43 PM
The first time this rumor piped up on thr, and again now, I kind of half thought it would be nice to get some of the stuff I wanted like a magnum carry or a stainless dicks special. However on further reflection, they would have to price new guns so high that I might as well buy the old ones. I prefer cosmetically challenged shooter grade over safe queens anyway. So, no, a new Colt has little interest to me.

Vmathes
May 22, 2014, 11:56 AM
I've been thinking about this. I think Colt should do an updated Fitz Special in .45 ACP! No locks, no legal warnings roll-marked … it would probably only be for sale in AZ and TX. B-)

Haxby
May 23, 2014, 09:50 PM
work currently being undertaken at Colt to bring one or more double action revolver to market
'Bring to market' doesn't sound the same as 'manufacture.'
Sounds sort of Japanese.

22-rimfire
May 24, 2014, 12:16 AM
Historically, Colt has never been successful with a firearm that was manufactured outside their factory.

Cincinnatus
June 17, 2014, 03:21 PM
In case this hasn't yet been seen by members on this forum, here is a picture that Colt recently posted to its Instagram account that's been floating around the internet lately.

http://instagram.com/p/o6oWV1p1Tc/#

As you can see, the caption reads: "Colt Customer Service reviewing Colt Products at the range. #FactoryFriday" and front and center of the picture is clearly a double action revolver.

This may or may not be relevant to this discussion, since I am the first to admit that it doesn't specifically state NEW Colt products, but it is possible that this could be a new product being tested and evaluated. The fact that it is blued rather than stainless also makes me hesitate to immediately believe that this is a new DA revolver, but it can't hurt to dream, can it?

Vern Humphrey
June 17, 2014, 06:14 PM
There are two revolvers in the picture -- one at each end of the line. The nearer revolver might be an Anaconda -- hard to tell.

CraigC
June 17, 2014, 08:11 PM
There's two on the far side and they both look like single actions.

KYamateur
June 17, 2014, 08:29 PM
I 99% believe colt is bringing back revolvers. Most likely Anaconda and King Cobra. They don't have qualified manpower to build a python that anyone cold afford. It's no secret they are doing it. They are taking space and employees dedicated to rifle lines and moving them to enable capacity to expand pistol lines. That and the fact that the CEO said they were probably bringing revolvers back is enough for me to add up the pieces. I haven't read anything in the gun mags but their current sales and expansion plans have been in some business magazines. Colt owns the design and patents to the Medusa. They bought it just before they shut down DA revolvers. That would be one cool piece. If I'm wrong I guess they are gearing up to make more 1911s as if there aren't 25 of them in every gun store now.

HexHead
June 17, 2014, 08:50 PM
Or they're going to move the SAAs out of the Custom Shop and get caught up with orders?

Jim K
June 17, 2014, 09:05 PM
The caption doesn't say "new" or "planned" or "coming" products, it just says "products". Looks like a range session for folks who need to at least know a Gov't Model .45 from a SAA.

Jim

Old Fuff
June 17, 2014, 10:54 PM
The large revolver at the front is an Anaconda, and it has some mileage on it. The two revolvers at the far end appear to be small .22 Single Actions. I think Jim is exactly right, and none of what they are shooting has any relationship to any new products they might have in mind.

KYamateur
June 17, 2014, 11:05 PM
The gun market has exploded. Now people that just bought one gun are getting into buying more. Automatic pistols have saturated the market pretty good, but there is a huge demand for revolvers. All of the gun stores around here never have a new S&W or Ruger in stock unless it is a plastic or alloy gun. Used ones in decent shape don't stay on the shelf long. When they do they are sold quickly. One shop I know of got a large shipment of 2014 production Ruger Redhawks in a few weeks ago. They got them in on a Tuesday and were sold by Friday. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Colt got in on the action, especially since people are willing to pay $1500 for used King Cobras. Don't get me wrong, I love Colt revolvers, but the price of existing Cobras and Anacondas that are for sale has gotten a little out of hand especially since you can get a Smith 686 and 629 for the price of 1 King Cobra. Some people say that the old ones will still be worth more, but besides the Python and Diamondback I'm not so sure of that. They haven't had any trouble selling the new Dan Wesson revolvers priced at $1,000+.

greenmtnguy
June 17, 2014, 11:11 PM
With so much interest in ccw-capable revolvers, I'd think that they'd include a more or less Detective sized model, 357Mag capable wheelgun.

KYamateur
June 17, 2014, 11:19 PM
If they do get back into them I hope they are nice revolvers and they are not just trying to sell their name. I have seen half a dozen unhappy owners of the new polymer 380s.

Dr.Rob
June 18, 2014, 04:47 AM
A set of dies for marking the magnum carry are up for sale on ebay. I know dies get replaced but that doesn't bode well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Factory-Colt-Firearms-Roll-Stamp-Dies-for-the-Magnum-CARRY-revolver-gun-/191211420434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8516bb12

Manny
June 18, 2014, 07:04 AM
My buddy use to have two Colts, the only two I've ever fired. A 6" King Cobra that both he and I shot better than any other gun we owned and a 4" Anaconda that I didn't particularly care for. I really liked that KC, but don't know that it would be unique enough in the market these days to grab a large market share. From a business standpoint I'd think the Anaconda or something similar would be their best move. And with the large number of CCW now, maybe a type of 6-shot snubbie as they really seem to still have a number of afficianados.

HexHead
June 18, 2014, 07:30 AM
Colt would be foolish to introduce any DA revolver other than a snubby first.

hAkron
June 18, 2014, 08:14 AM
S&W's recent re-introduction of the model 66...regardless of how poorly executed it may or may not be, along with their 'classic' line of revolvers should give Colt all of the sales data they need to determine if a re-introduction into the DA revolver maket is a good move.

Old Fuff
June 18, 2014, 11:53 AM
Maybe yes, and maybe no. But in any case S&W isn't likely to share any sales data with competitors in general, and Colt in particular. As a rule-of-thumb the demand for mid-frame .357 Magnum revolvers isn't what it used to be, and the law enforcement market for this kind of handgun as all but disappeared.

Old Fuff
June 18, 2014, 12:16 PM
A set of dies for marking the magnum carry are up for sale on ebay. I know dies get replaced but that doesn't bode well.

What's on the block has nothing to do with manufacturing the Magnum Carry model as such. They are a set of roll stamps that were used to impress the markings on the side of the barrel. All of the production tooling was either sold or scrapped (mostly the latter) years ago, presumably so what ever value was left could be written off the company's taxes.

Some how, for whatever reason, some Colt fans refuse to understand that the company has gotten rid of everything they had relative to the manufacture of double-action/hand ejector revolvers. They cannot return any of the past models to production without having to start from scratch; and the considerable cost of doing this must be ultimately added to the MSRP of the resulting revolver - that is something they're competitors don't have to do because they already have.

The main question is not if they can come forth with new model revolvers, but can they do so at a price the market will accept and is in line with what competitors are offering, while at the same time absorbing the design, development, and production tooling costs. This is highly questionable. :uhoh:

ATLDave
June 18, 2014, 01:20 PM
Old Fuff, are you assuming that they would be manufacturing using the same methods? That does seem unlikely. But modern manufacturing methods (whatever one may think of them) don't always use the same old tooling from 100 years ago.

KYamateur
June 18, 2014, 01:28 PM
I posted earlier that I do believe they will come back, but I figure it would be an expensive revolver for a specialized market. I do agree that the market is not there to put out a ton of mid-sized revolvers. I may be dead wrong and they may be intending to start selling a complete new line of pistols in .40, 9mm, and .22 target pistols. I just read in business week or WSJ that they were reallocating assets to expand hand gun sales. I wouldn't think it would be 1911s but who knows. The article I read was about the growing gun industry in general and mentioned a few companies. I will look and see if I still have it somewhere. I don't like the rebranding stuff like they did with one of the AR models.

Vern Humphrey
June 18, 2014, 01:38 PM
They bring back the Anaconda, and I'll buy one in .45 Colt.

They bring back the Shooting Master and I'll buy a half a dozen!

Old Fuff
June 18, 2014, 04:35 PM
Old Fuff, are you assuming that they would be manufacturing using the same methods? That does seem unlikely. But modern manufacturing methods (whatever one may think of them) don't always use the same old tooling from 100 years ago.

You're thinking of a line of revolvers that for the most part were introduced in 1908 and discontinued during the 1970's. The ones I'm referring to date from 1970 forward into the 1980's and 1990's. they were designed to be made, and were made, using what we would call "modern manufacturing methods," roughly similar to what Smith & Wesson does today. The same is true so far as Ruger and Taurus are concerned except Colt continued to make forged frames where the other two had frames that were investment cast.

All of these manufacturers had largely (if not totally) eliminated the individual hand fitting that was required before.

Old Fuff
June 18, 2014, 04:45 PM
They bring back the Anaconda, and I'll buy one in .45 Colt. They bring back the Shooting Master and I'll buy a half a dozen!

Yup, I know you would - and so would some others. ;)

The question is, are they're enough serious buyers to keep up sustained year-over-year sales to justify the cost the project would entail... ??

After the first rush I have doubts, especially at the MSRP I would expect they'd have to ask for to provide the quality I'd believe potential customers would demand.

Vern Humphrey
June 18, 2014, 04:52 PM
Okay, I'll buy a Shooting Master a year for the first six years.;)

Old Fuff
June 18, 2014, 05:12 PM
Okay, I'll buy a Shooting Master a year for the first six years

Well I certainly applaud your thinking and hope you get the opportunity.

But the core question is how many other folks think like you do, and have the financial means to carry it out?

Colt is going to have to puzzle that out for a bit. :uhoh:

Vern Humphrey
June 18, 2014, 05:13 PM
I don't know how many others would buy, but I suspect a retro-revolver without the Ugly Hole (a la the modern Smith and Wesson) would sell well.

19-3Ben
June 18, 2014, 05:42 PM
But the core question is how many other folks think like you do, and have the financial means to carry it out?

It would be an issue indeed. A new, expensive .38 target revolver would be a tough sell when there are so many fantastic K38s and other older .38 target revolvers around.

I, for one, would not bother with a new production Shooting Master. But I'm also not a die-hard Colt guy. My question is that much like politicians, gun companies have to sway people who are not just already in their camp, but the fence sitters.
How many people who are not "colt guys" are going to flock to this type of revolver?

I'd expect something more like the Mountain Gun would sell better. Something just like the .45Colt Vern mentioned. Good for HD, hiking, camping and even hunting.

Vern Humphrey
June 18, 2014, 05:49 PM
The Shooting Master I have in mind is the Colt New Service in .45 Colt, with target sights.

I have a New Service that has been reblued and is not a collector's gun. One of these days, I will have the barrel cut to 5 1/2" and target sights mounted.

19-3Ben
June 18, 2014, 06:15 PM
The Shooting Master I have in mind is the Colt New Service in .45 Colt, with target sights.

Well now you've got my gears turning.

Old Fuff
June 18, 2014, 09:00 PM
I don't know how many others would buy, but I suspect a retro-revolver without the Ugly Hole (a la the modern Smith and Wesson) would sell well.

I suspect you might be right in the short term following introduction, but longer sustained sales would be more questionable. Looking at today's handgun market I don't see substantial demand for anybody's big-bore revolvers, and that is what Colt would need to keep the price where buyers in large numbers would pay it. It is the manufacturers of small snub-nose "pocketable" revolvers that are doing well.

Understand that given the opportunity to obtain a Shooting Master in .45 Colt would bring me great delight, but I am looking at the market as it is, rather then what I wish it was. This is an area where Colt can't afford to make a mistake.

larryh1108
June 18, 2014, 09:06 PM
Plastic revolvers have been the rage and it seems like they're holding up AND appeal to the CCW market. I don't see them going retro when the future is light weight and plastic. It must be cheaper to make as well. Why appeal to the old time Colt buyers when there are millions of new shooters looking to buy plastic.

Jim K
June 18, 2014, 10:50 PM
"The Shooting Master I have in mind is the Colt New Service in .45 Colt, with target sights."

The Shooting Master was built on the New Service frame, and is a BIG gun. The tendency today is toward smaller and lighter (even "plastic") handguns, and I don't see a new SM having much appeal. Plus, handgun target shooting is becoming a dying sport; most handgun shooting today, for better or worse, is the "defense" type of shooting, with emphasis on concealed carry, something for which a Shooting Master would be less than ideal, IMHO.

Jim

Vern Humphrey
June 19, 2014, 01:20 PM
Yeah, but I carry a New Service in the woods or on horseback, and it will do about anything a .44 Magnum will do. A modern Shooting Master would beat the S&W M629 all hollow.

Old Fuff
June 19, 2014, 01:44 PM
Yeah, but I carry a New Service in the woods or on horseback, and it will do about anything a .44 Magnum will do. A modern Shooting Master would beat the S&W M629 all hollow.

Understood. But exactly how large of a market demand do you represent? Obviously they're others who feel as you do, but if Colt did introduce such a revolver and filled up the demand with one or two years production - then what?

These days horse-backers and woodsmen are relatively scares, and not all are united when it comes to any particular revolver, or platform/cartridge combination.

Vern Humphrey
June 19, 2014, 01:53 PM
Like I said, I'd buy one a year for six years.

Ky Larry
June 19, 2014, 03:31 PM
I've got all my revolver needs filled (but not nearly all my wants). I'd really like for Colt to reintroduce the Woodsman .22lr. I wouldn't get my hopes up too high about a new Colt revolvers fit and finish. I would bet the skilled people are about gone.

Vern Humphrey
June 19, 2014, 04:15 PM
I've got a Woodsman, made in 1938 -- it's the most accurate handgun I've ever owned, and it's death on squirrels.

I suspect if Colt did it right, they'd have a quality product. Look at how Kimber went into the M1911 market and knocked everyone on their ear.

Old Fuff
June 19, 2014, 04:41 PM
I've got a Woodsman, made in 1938 -- it's the most accurate handgun I've ever owned, and it's death on squirrels.

Again I agree, but they don't make them now like they did in 1938... :banghead:

Vern Humphrey
June 19, 2014, 09:23 PM
I think the Colt Woodsman, made by CNC machinery would be a winner today.

DPris
June 19, 2014, 11:01 PM
Unfortunately, far as I know, USFA owns the rights to the name now.
I don't know how far that'd extend toward the actual design (probably wouldn't have any effect), but Colt would have to re-name such a re-intro.

I'm not sure CNC could make it anywhere near as affordably competitive as it'd need to be to take on Ruger & Browning.
CNC is not a guaranteed magic solution to outdated manufacturing methods. :)
Denis

murf
June 19, 2014, 11:21 PM
if colt "bought out" usfa, there would be no problem. since usfa is no longer in business, it's doable. that, on the surface, would be an excellent idea for colt.

some say usfa made better colt saas than colt did.

murf

Vern Humphrey
June 20, 2014, 01:51 PM
Combine the USFA quality with the Colt name and you'd have a winner.

Madcap_Magician
June 20, 2014, 02:26 PM
I want a new .357-rated 3rd-series Detective Special. :(

Old Fuff
June 20, 2014, 06:49 PM
That might (or might not) come about, but it will be much different then what you remember if it does show up.

Ky Larry
June 21, 2014, 09:47 AM
Vern,wasn't 1938 the year Old Fuff retired from his second job?:p

Frank V
June 21, 2014, 10:41 AM
I've watched threads like this off & on for a year or so.
While I'd love to see Colt make a nice DA revolver especially if they could not drill all the holes in it for locks, but I don't think it's going to happen.

They already make the best six-gun to ever come down the pike,,,, why the Colt Single Action Army of course!!!!! ;):D:D

Old Fuff
June 21, 2014, 12:12 PM
Vern,wasn't 1938 the year Old Fuff retired from his second job?

Of course not!!!

You have your dates all mixed up... :cuss:

It was 1838 .... :D

CraigC
June 21, 2014, 12:14 PM
They already make the best six-gun to ever come down the pike,,,, why the Colt Single Action Army of course!!!!!
Everything else is just a passing fad. ;)

Vern Humphrey
June 21, 2014, 04:52 PM
Vern,wasn't 1938 the year Old Fuff retired from his second job?
Yeah, he saw I was enjoying my retirement so much that he decided to join me.:p

Frank V
June 22, 2014, 03:48 PM
Everything else is just a passing fad. ;)



What CraigC says!:D:D:D

Jim K
June 22, 2014, 04:21 PM
There are two basic segments of the revolver market, the serious (defense/carry) guns and the fun guns. S&W, lock or not, has a large part of the former and a good chunk of the latter. Ruger has a large part of the latter and a piece of the former. The Traditional Single Action (fun) segment is split between Colt and foreign makers. Others divide the rest. (While it might seem to the vociferous folks who hate "the lock" that it would have a large influence against S&W, the fact is that it simply doesn't make any difference to most buyers in either market segment.)

In order to gain a profitable share of the "serious" market, Colt would have to produce a revolver that would be obviously superior to the S&W, Ruger (and yes) Taurus competition. That is a pretty tall order. It can be done, but the "serious" market is not that large; once a person buys a gun for SD/HD, he/she will usually not buy any more. The "fun" shooter and collector market is where repeat sales are, so if Colt wants to go for the long term, it will have to try to break into that market as well. True, its SAA is in that market, and not doing badly, but it seems to me that a high quality DA/SA will be needed as well to compete with the S&W target models.

Jim

hemiram
June 27, 2014, 07:03 AM
IF I was looking to buy a new revolver, and IF I was going to spend anything close to what Colt would want for one, I would just find a Dan Wesson 715 and get it instead, and probably save some money.

Waveski
June 27, 2014, 07:31 AM
From Jim K :(While it might seem to the vociferous folks who hate "the lock" that it would have a large influence against S&W, the fact is that it simply doesn't make any difference to most buyers in either market segment.)

I tend to disagree. Maybe I'm wrong. I would like to see a poll on that subject.

HexHead
June 27, 2014, 08:00 AM
From Jim K :(While it might seem to the vociferous folks who hate "the lock" that it would have a large influence against S&W, the fact is that it simply doesn't make any difference to most buyers in either market segment.)

I tend to disagree. Maybe I'm wrong. I would like to see a poll on that subject.
I doubt USA Today would run a poll about it. A poll here would only include THR members, so the anti-lock crowd would rule the day. Joe Schmoe coming into a gun store to buy a revolver generally doesn't know or care about the lock. It's a totally non-issue in the real world. I just bought a S&W N-frame a couple of weeks ago. If there was an identical NIB one sitting next to it at the same price without the lock, yeah, I would have bought that one. But there wasn't, and it didn't matter to me, even a little bit.

As for Colt, the DA revolver they need to bring out to be successful with it should be a modern version of their DS-II. Keep it within 50 bucks of a S&W J-frame, go back to their original "6 shots instead of 5" marketing, and they'll hit it out of the park. They're really missing the growing CCW boat.

BigG
June 27, 2014, 08:10 AM
As for Colt, the DA revolver they need to bring out to be successful with it should be a modern version of their DS-II. Keep it within 50 bucks of a S&W J-frame, go back to their original "6 shots instead of 5" marketing, and they'll hit it out of the park. They're really missing the growing CCW boat.
Don't know if you remember but even back when Colt produced a full line of revolvers a Colt would cost probably double what a comparable S&W model cost. :eek:

C0untZer0
June 27, 2014, 09:39 AM
I'm saving to buy the S&W 629.

I'm passing up the Charter Arms 9mm PITBULL and CZ 9231 because the Smith is true quality, its not just about getting a 9mm revolver, which I've always wanted, its about getting a masterpiece.

Cooldill
June 27, 2014, 12:18 PM
^ You won't go wrong with the Smith. They still are capable of making fine revolvers.

The Charter Arms gun?... :uhoh:

As for Colt bringing new DA revos to the market, with the rising popularity of CCW I think it would be silly to bring anything other than the Detective Special series out again, either in the Magnum version or standard .38 types, alloy and steel version both perhaps.

I'd LOVE a new Colt Cobra in .38 special +P!

Old Fuff
June 27, 2014, 01:41 PM
I'd LOVE a new Colt Cobra in .38 special +P!

I'm sure you would, and so would a lot of others... :cool:

Until they saw the price. :banghead:

It's not that the cost would be way out of sight, although it would likely be high; but rather the need to pay for the engineering, development and tooling costs - none of which Colt's main competitors (S&W, Ruger and Taurus) would have to deal with.

Until the above cited costs were paid off, Colt's profit would be... Zero!

Colt's current financial condition is better then it has been during some past years, but they are not in a position to take long-shot risks.

This not to say that they absolutely won't introduce a new upgraded D-frame line, but to point out that they will look at the proposed project very, very hard. :eek:

And if you look at the situation purely from a business perspective, the economic climate is not encouraging. :uhoh:

Jim K
June 27, 2014, 04:38 PM
And it is almost a certainty that any new Colt DA would have a lock of some kind; maybe not as visible as S&W's but there would be one, for fear of law suits.

Jim

Cooldill
June 27, 2014, 04:50 PM
Where theres a will, theres a way. I strongly believe the Detective Special WILL make a comeback. It's only a matter of time. Don't ask me how I know this.

;)

Old Fuff
June 28, 2014, 12:57 AM
And if you look at the situation purely from a business perspective, the economic climate is not encouraging.

I strongly believe the Detective Special WILL make a comeback. It's only a matter of time. Don't ask me how I know this.

I won't ask.... But I strongly suggest that you start saving your pennies 'cuz if you turn out to be wrong the collected money can always be spent on one of the older guns.

Vodoun da Vinci
June 28, 2014, 01:03 PM
I think some of us are assuming that new Colt revolvers *must* be hand fitted replicas of the older units. I don't see Colt having a chance of reviving/selling that.

I'd rather see a new Colt Detective Special in .38 that has perhaps the same 6 round capacity and overall size but maybe a polymer frame or even a less costly type of manufacture. It doesn't have to be a hand fitted/hand finished high polish masterpiece to get my money. Bring back the Colt 1903/1908 with an update but similar feel and ergonomics?

I'd buy that as well. They have a market and can compete if they do it right - if they just try and make new Detective Specials, Diamondbacks, Pythons, or Anacondas on the old recipe? They'll get creamed....no one at Colt would be stupid enough to do that I don't think. The world is a different place since the last Colt revolvers.

They'd have to evolve and can.

VooDoo

Old Fuff
June 28, 2014, 02:47 PM
Somehow I'm not getting through. :banghead:

Colt has been out of the commercial handgun (in particular D.A. revolvers) market for so long that they are no longer a consequential factor in the overall picture. Meanwhile Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Taurus have taken it over and are well established.

Now Colt is hinting that they may introduce a new D.A./Hand Ejector revolver in the foreseeable future. This is good news but they face some formidable road bumps in a financial environment where they can't afford to make any mistakes.

Whatever they have in mind will undoubtedly be designed around the latest manufacturing technologies - and the result may or may not please they're fans who are used to something else.

In any case most of the parts that comprise the whole are going to have to be designed and then either purchased from sub-contractors or made in-house on what would likely be new tooling and machinery.

All of these additional costs must be included in the price of the final product, and they're 3 major competitors don't have to face this because they already have. Plus because of our current president they are flush with cash, which Colt isn't.

So the bottom line is that even if Colt was to use the most current manufacturing technologies (that they're competitors already are), they still might not be able to come up with a price-competitive product.

ArchAngelCD
June 28, 2014, 11:45 PM
Where theres a will, theres a way. I strongly believe the Detective Special WILL make a comeback. It's only a matter of time. Don't ask me how I know this.

;)
Even if that were true it would be a Colt Detective in name only. There would probably be nothing of the old revolver in the new revolver. It's just not cost effective.

Also, look at Old Fuff's post right above this one. It makes perfect sense.

Vodoun da Vinci
June 29, 2014, 08:25 AM
Fuff makes perfect sense and always does. The Way for Colt to begin producing new revolvers with the Colt name on them would be difficult. There will undoubtedly be changes to "The Original" and they will undoubtedly be made via current manufacturing process using modern materials and techniques/machines. They may not be well received and may fail to capture enough market share to make them profitable - Colt might lose their shirt. 21st century competition in the firearm industry means pennies on the dollar return for investment and the competition is fierce and capable. The road is paved with challenge.

They might fail - but maybe not. They might release new revolvers - they might not. I don't believe personally it is an impossible task and that trying to compete in this market is fruitless and that they are destined to fail. I'll buy a new Colt revolver if only to see what they have accomplished and how they deal with the modern concepts and challenges. If it sucks I'll remember I was told so in advance. I concur that the chances of "new" Colt DS being identical or even remotely resembling a vintage Colt DS is virtually zero but my Ruger LCR gets a lot of range time and the first time I conceived of owning and shooting a polymer framed revolver my stomach turned. Now I love the dang thing...it's new/it's wow and way cool.

I already have the funds set aside and I'll take that plunge if it presents itself. :) No doubt so will thousands of others.

VooDoo

Frank V
June 29, 2014, 10:33 AM
From what I'm seeing on the market now a person could just about buy a nice older "Smith" without lock for just about what S&W are charging for their new lockable guns?:confused:
Then there's Ruger!!:D
That's the route I'd go!

JLDS
June 29, 2014, 08:06 PM
I just joined this forum mainly because I dig Colt revolvers. Like to see a return of them.

Dframe
June 29, 2014, 09:33 PM
Welcome JLDS. I'm also a colt guy. Any new colt revolver is most probably going to be much like the King Cobra or the Magnum Carry. Ease and cost of manufacture will be paramount in order to supply a product within a reasonable price point.

Vern Humphrey
June 29, 2014, 09:44 PM
I'm also a Colt man -- the only S&W I've ever had was found in the wreckage of a shot-down C-130.

And despite what Ol' Fluff says, I still want a new Colt Shooting Master in .454 Colt, and I'm gonna hold my breath and kick my heels until Colt listens.:p

Jim K
June 29, 2014, 10:04 PM
I have an idea that will be a lot of holding and a lot of kicking. ;)

Jim

ColtPythonElite
June 30, 2014, 01:06 AM
Don't know if you remember but even back when Colt produced a full line of revolvers a Colt would cost probably double what a comparable S&W model cost. :eek:
A King Cobra was not twice the price of a 686. A Anaconda was not double the cost of a 629.

HexHead
June 30, 2014, 07:47 AM
The last thing I'd expect to see in a new Colt DA revolver is a V-spring or the kind of workmanship in my older Colt revolvers. Look what they did bringing back the Mustang, an alloy Pocketlight and a polymer one. No reason they couldn't do that with a snubbie revolver too, and get back in the game.

Old Fuff
June 30, 2014, 12:28 PM
Look what they did bringing back the Mustang, an alloy Pocketlight and a polymer one. No reason they couldn't do that with a snubbie revolver too, and get back in the game.

But again...

Once the tooling is paid for it's far less expensive to make a striker-fired/polymer frame pistol then a revolver that is mechanically more complicated.

And I don't see that Colt's sales of their .380 line of pocket pistols is giving competitors sleepless nights.

To "get back in the game" they have to absorb the costs of bringing (whatever) to market, and offer fans a product they'll accept at a price they'll pay, while S&W, Ruger and Taurus sit on their hands. While this could happen it seems unlikely.

As it stands today most consumers (especially younger ones) think that "Colt" is a beer, not a handgun.

Drail
June 30, 2014, 12:37 PM
I still believe that even if they decided to try to produce a DA revolver lineup - they would be seriously overpriced and not all that great. Even S&W cannot seem to produce a revolver that even comes close to what they used to build. That absolutely requires a lot of handfitting and the cost would be outrageous for what you would get. If you want a finely built DA revolver - buy used. There are plenty of them still around.

ColtPythonElite
June 30, 2014, 02:26 PM
I wonder how many laughs a day the white collars at Colt get reading these threads....

alexander45
June 30, 2014, 02:37 PM
Probably wouldn't bother with it there's a new service in 45 colt down at one shop for $800 or so Iv been drooling over but don't have the funds for I doubt a new one would go for less than $1200

ZVP
June 30, 2014, 03:58 PM
A new Colt would be nice. but can they compete with companies like Ruger or Tarus who seem to have the hottest R&D Depts in the marketplace.
Seems like Tauris comes out with revolvers in 3"s or 4's anymore!
Smith has a good solid base that they keep building from. and Ruger can'r seem to make enough guns to keep up.
I think that Revolvers are the Pocket guns of the future. WHen buyers go and lay their cash out, they want to see soe mechanical stuff going on as they pull the trigger/ Look at the see-thru Tarus...
ME? I carry a Chief and a Model 10. For really small and light I carry a Breetta Timcat .22.
ZVP

Old Fuff
June 30, 2014, 04:11 PM
I wonder how many laughs a day the white collars at Colt get reading these threads....

Not many. They have to make some serious decisions, and what they'd see here is a relatively small customer base that is highly fractured in explaining what they want. Worse then that, some want what can't possibly be done. :banghead:

CraigC
June 30, 2014, 04:28 PM
Worse then that, some want what can't possibly be done.
Many say they want it and then find other things to spend their money on.

larryh1108
June 30, 2014, 05:37 PM
....it will be small, it will be plastic, it will be light and the only way it will look like a Colt is the pony on it.

Vern Humphrey
June 30, 2014, 07:08 PM
I have an idea that will be a lot of holding and a lot of kicking.
I'm retired. I don't have anything else to do.:p

Jim K
June 30, 2014, 07:08 PM
I have mentioned this before, but a while back folks told market surveyors that they would for sure buy a new Luger if such were available. So Interarms and Mauser sank some serious bucks into producing new Lugers at the same factory where the originals were made. The result? All those folks who wanted Lugers didn't want NEW Lugers, they wanted OLD Lugers, or S&W's or Colts or whatever. The new Lugers never made back the investment.

I think there may be a lesson there for any company thinking of "reviving" old models. A lot of "prospective buyers" are all mouth and no money.

Jim

scaevola
June 30, 2014, 07:25 PM
If I was a betting man I'd go with this:
larryh1108:
....it will be small, it will be plastic, it will be light and the only way it will look like a Colt is the pony on it.

Vern Humphrey
July 1, 2014, 11:58 AM
All those folks who wanted Lugers didn't want NEW Lugers, they wanted OLD Lugers, or S&W's or Colts or whatever. The new Lugers never made back the investment.
That's because as a friend of mine said, "No one can shoot a Luger. They get so fascinated by watching the thingy go up and down that they forget about the sights."

I guarantee I'd buy a half-dozen Colt Shooting Masters in .45 Colt.

Old Fuff
July 1, 2014, 12:18 PM
I guarantee I'd buy a half-dozen Colt Shooting Masters in .45 Colt.

Even if it was...

... small, it will be plastic, it will be light and the only way it will look like a Colt is the pony on it.

The first thing you have to do is find somebody at the factory who knows what the Shooting Master is or was... :uhoh:

I strongly recommend that you start following some of the better auction sites for an original one. Expensive yes, but relatively cheap compared to one made today. :neener:

Vern Humphrey
July 1, 2014, 12:44 PM
I strongly recommend that you start following some of the better auction sites for an original one. Expensive yes, but relatively cheap compared to one made today.
In fact, I have a Colt New Service made in 1906. This gun has been reblued, and to sight it in I soldered on a big honking slab of steel and widened the rear sight notch to the right.

It shoots dead on, but I'm seriously considering trimming the barrel to 5 1/2" and putting on target sights -- a sort of ersatz Shooting Master.

If I could find a Shooting Master in good condition, under $2,000, I'd buy it.

Old Fuff
July 1, 2014, 04:58 PM
If I could find a Shooting Master in good condition, under $2,000, I'd buy it.

That might be possible, but you'd likely have to settle for one in .38 Special or maybe .45ACP. Other chamberings are very rare.

Or you could do what Colt did, that was to take a regular New Service Target frame and slim the backstrap, frontstrap, and stocks.

Vern Humphrey
July 2, 2014, 12:09 AM
What I plan on doing is simply cutting back the barrel on my New Service and mounting target sights. I already have Herrett Shooting Master stocks on it.

Frank V
July 2, 2014, 11:43 AM
Dreaming is nice, truthfully, I don't see Colt reintroducing a DA revolver. We can wish, but I'm not holding my breath & I REALLY hope I'm wrong.

short barrel
July 3, 2014, 05:11 PM
If Colt makes a revolver, I'll buy it sight unseen. Don't need to know any of the specifics or see any photos; I'll take it.

Vern Humphrey
July 3, 2014, 06:01 PM
I agree with you. As others have said, they'll probably never make the revolver I WANT (a Colt Shooting Master in .45 Colt.) But if we make the revolver business profitable for them, the odds of them making my gun get a little better,

treetop_66
July 23, 2014, 01:27 AM
If they ever do make a double action revolver, I'm betting on a new version of the Magnum Carry. I love my D frames and would buy a new one in a second.

ArchAngelCD
July 23, 2014, 01:38 AM
A new Colt would be nice. but can they compete with companies like Ruger or Tarus who seem to have the hottest R&D Depts in the marketplace.
Seems like Tauris comes out with revolvers in 3"s or 4's anymore!
Smith has a good solid base that they keep building from. and Ruger can'r seem to make enough guns to keep up.
I think that Revolvers are the Pocket guns of the future. WHen buyers go and lay their cash out, they want to see soe mechanical stuff going on as they pull the trigger/ Look at the see-thru Tarus...
ME? I carry a Chief and a Model 10. For really small and light I carry a Breetta Timcat .22.
ZVP
Yes Colt can compete but the revolver will not resemble the old Colt revolvers just like the current S&W revolvers don't resemble the old S&W revolvers.

jimbo555
July 23, 2014, 06:14 AM
Colt could bring back the ds2 and I would buy that tomorrow!

Cooldill
July 23, 2014, 11:51 AM
I'd LOVE a detective special stainless steel, especially in .357 magnum! I think with aggressive marketing and making a good product Colt could easily have a market for CCW revolvers even in 2014. J-frames are still going strong, real strong, and there are many people pining for the old Detective Specials because it holds one extra round over the J-frame .38/357s and is nearly the same size.

I'd buy on in a hurry!

Old Fuff
July 23, 2014, 11:56 AM
Colt could bring back the ds2 and I would buy that tomorrow!

But at Colt they will be asking:

Would he do so regardless of the price?

Are they're enough others with the same viewpoint to support sustained sales over the long run?

If the answer is "no" they won't make enough profit to pay for the development, tooling and marketing of the new gun. They must all so consider that if it was indeed popular other competitors wouldn't sit on their hands, and whatever they introduced would take a cut out of their projected sales.

Jim K
July 23, 2014, 02:55 PM
This thread was started on May 8, with the "news" that Colt was getting a DA revolver ready to go. It is now July 23. No Colt. And I bet in 2015, and 2016, and 2017, and ??? there will still be no new Colts except maybe another warmed over 1911.

Jim

Sol
July 23, 2014, 04:48 PM
I have mentioned this before, but a while back folks told market surveyors that they would for sure buy a new Luger if such were available. So Interarms and Mauser sank some serious bucks into producing new Lugers at the same factory where the originals were made. The result? All those folks who wanted Lugers didn't want NEW Lugers, they wanted OLD Lugers, or S&W's or Colts or whatever. The new Lugers never made back the investment.

I think there may be a lesson there for any company thinking of "reviving" old models. A lot of "prospective buyers" are all mouth and no money.

Jim

That's the manufactures and shareholders concern.

But for us, it could be a sound investment.
A company with a financially tumultuous past, present and probable future, a limited run of a new revolver could be quite the collectors piece.

Or Colt could live to tell the tale.

Either way, it could be seen as plus to consumers.

Old Fuff
July 23, 2014, 06:11 PM
Either way, it could be seen as plus to consumers.

It might be seen that way by some consumers, but not the owners of stock that invested money expecting that they'd make a good return.

After taking a loss they just might fire the CEO that made a bad decision... :uhoh:

Companies (including those that make firearms) are in business to make money, not lose it to make consumers happy. If they thought otherwise they wouldn't be around long. What they previously made might become collectables, but that would do them absolutely no good.

Jim K
July 23, 2014, 09:44 PM
Maybe, Sol, but I have an AA2000 and it seems to not be especially valuable, even though it 1) is a Colt, 2) was limited production and, 3) was a failure.

The Paterson, of course, was a failure and it became very valuable. But it took well over a century for that to happen. I guess I will just have to wait around until my AA2000 is worth big bucks.

Jim

Vern Humphrey
July 24, 2014, 11:51 AM
In a strange way, the Patterson wasn't a failure. A bunch of them (180 to 200) were bought by the Texas Navy. When Sam Houston disbanded the Texas Navy during his second administration, the Pattersons went to the Texas Rangers. John Coffee Hays, a Ranger Captain had a brilliant flash of light -- "This isn't a gun! It's FIVE guns!" He wangled two for each of his Rangers and for the first time Rangers could out-fight Commanches in mounted combat.

When Texas entered the Union, the Texas Rangers became federal troops and they demanded revolvers. Since Colt was out of business, a Ranger Captain named Samuel Walker was sent to negotiate with Colt, and together they designed the Colt-Walker revolver, which was manufactured by the Eli Whitney Company.

Colt was back in business, and mounted combat was revolutionized.

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