Walther PPK/S .22 lr made in France


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cw4guy
May 9, 2014, 07:01 PM
I have been reading the old Walther PPK/S discussions, and have a question:
I bought an Interarms .22 LR Walther PPK/S in 2/1983 from Interarms (had a FFL in those days), serial # 136XXXS, made in France, with a French Certificate of Authenticity from St Etienne (bbl is marked "St. Etienne"). However, the target enclosed with it is in German, and undated. In all the forums I have read, no one has ever mentioned this PPK/S. The left side of the slide (as you are aiming it) is marked :under license of Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do, Modell PPK/S Cal .22LR. " The right side says Interarms, Alexandria Virginia. The black plastic grips say Walther on each one, and the left grip has a thumb rest, for a right handed shooter. Has anyone ever seen one like this, or does anyone have one???

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Jim K
May 10, 2014, 12:10 AM
The PPK/S was a result of the import requirements of the Gun Control Act of 1968, which banned import of "non sporting" handguns. Among the regulations was a minimum size which the original PPK could not meet. So Walther designed the PPK/S which was essentially the PP with a PPK barrel and slide; the result, with thumb rest (target) grips, gained enough "points" for importation. Interarms (formerly Interarmco), of Alexandria, VA, was Sam Cummings' company and was the Walther importer/distributor for the U.S.

The Walther PP and PPK (Polizei Pistole and Polizei Pistole Kriminal) were made in 7.65mm (.32ACP), 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP), 6.35mm Browning (.25 ACP) and .22 Long Rifle. I don't think production of the .25 ACP was resumed after WWII, but I may be wrong.

As to "The French Connection", at the end of WWII, Zella-Mehlis, the previous home of Walther, was in the Russian zone. The head of the company, Fritz Walther, escaped to the west, and successfully re-established the company in Ulm, in Donau state. But at that time, German arms manufacture was banned by the Allies, so Walther had guns bearing the Walther name made in France at Manufacture d'Armes du Haut Rhin (Upper Rhine Arms Factory). The guns were shipped to Germany where they were tested and re-packaged for further shipment. Later, production in Germany was resumed. Today, all PP and PPK pistols are made in the U.S.

Jim

Ron James
May 10, 2014, 01:09 AM
Right at the last of the agreement between Walther and Manurhin ( France ), disagreements arose, Manurhin had just been purchased by a large non gun outfit. Instantly the new firm wanted money, more money. they wanted recognition of the fact that they were the ones making the Walther PP and PPK's. So in 1983 and 84, Manurhin put out firearms with big letters Walther, made under license by Manurhin ( or words to that effect). That lasted from 1983 until 1984 when the agreement expired, and Walther told the French where to stick it. your gun, with those marking is not rare and doesn't seem to bring a premium, in spite of the fact they were made only one year.

cw4guy
May 13, 2014, 07:01 AM
Ron,
Thank you for your information. Question, though: did Manurhin ever farm out manufacture to St. Etienne??? I have an "official seal" from the St Etienne Chamber of Commerce that my particular gun was made in St Etienne 12 January 1960. Weird. While I agree with you that there is no particular value to this PPK/s, it is nevertheless unusual, or very little information is available. Again, thank you for your help.
Guy B.

SDC
May 13, 2014, 07:08 AM
In this case, St. Etienne is merely the proof house that certified this pistol as being safe to fire; because these pistols were manufactured in France, they still had to pass French proof laws, which is where St. Etienne comes in.

Ron James
May 13, 2014, 03:10 PM
I think also you have the wrong box and or the insert paperwork, The PPK/S was not made in 1960. The PPK/S came about because of the 1968 GCA, The overall size of the PPK was under the allowable limits, What to do? simply mate the PP frame with the PPK's slide, ally ka zamm The PPK/S was born. The serial number you gave matches 69-87 manufacture date for Manurhin.

cw4guy
May 14, 2014, 07:14 PM
Thank you, Ron. Did another check on the test-fire target in the box: different serial number. Apparently Interarms was willy-nilly, or was it the Germans, I wonder, because the target is all in German.........

Jim K
May 17, 2014, 10:45 PM
I expect neither Interarms nor the Germans were "willy-nilly". More likely someone at some time wanted a box for the gun, probably to increase its sale value, and just got an old Walther box without concern about its matching the gun.

Jim

krupparms
May 21, 2014, 06:43 PM
I had one marked like yours . And it was a .22Lr. also. It was very accurate & reliable. I had planned to keep it, but someone wanted it more. So its gone now. To bad as it was very accurate & was used for a BUG. I sure do miss it as it was fun &cheap to shoot.

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