Starting to get concerned...


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gonoles_1980
May 11, 2014, 07:34 PM
I'm down to about 300-400 rounds of HP-38, Midway let me know about six weeks ago that I was on a 4-8 week backlog for 8lbs of W231. it's been six weeks. I'm on the road basically 23-24 days a month and can't go to my normal supplier who's about 50 minutes away. It's going to be close. I have plenty of bullets and primers.

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ArchAngelCD
May 11, 2014, 08:24 PM
I'm getting a little scared too. I'm down to only two 4lb jugs and two 1lb jugs of W231. With only 10 lbs of W231 left what am I going to do! :evil:

gonoles_1980
May 11, 2014, 08:27 PM
Don't make me come over there. :).

bds
May 11, 2014, 08:32 PM
Just in case, start making plan B, Plan C, etc. and look for alternate powders.

I have been reloading on plan B/C for the past few years (Red Dot/Promo/Herco) while saving W231/HP-38 and other more popular powders.

Even though I have plenty of pistol powders, if I see 8 lb containers of CFE Pistol (my plan Z) or Red Dot/Promo/Herco/W231/HP-38, I am buying.

Airman Basic
May 11, 2014, 08:35 PM
I've moved on to Plan C, ordered 4 pounds of Alliant Steel the other day.

WestKentucky
May 11, 2014, 08:35 PM
Plan A find powder on the shelf. Plan B sweet-talk archangel for powder. Plan C Viking style raid on archangels powder room?

Havok7416
May 11, 2014, 09:44 PM
I have been picking up powders I don't normally keep around too. It doesn't help that I also moved halfway to nowhere.

mstreddy
May 11, 2014, 09:55 PM
Yeah, it looks like we picked a bad week to quit amphetamines... or picked a bad week to want/need our preferred powders.
For me Win231/HP38 would be the "IT" thing, but since it's rare these days, I, like many others here, have gone to the plan Bs and Cs. I've been loading 9, 40, and 38 Spcl with WST and will do some 45 ACPs soon. I'm holding on the Win231 for 380, and 45 Gap and don't want to use it all up.
Plan C is the Promo/Red Dot and once I finish the last of the WST I will build up some recipes for it.
In rifle, the dearth of RL15 and BL(C)-2 has prompted me get some LT32 and will load up some 223 and 308 in the next week with it.

gonoles_1980
May 11, 2014, 11:08 PM
WestKentucky I ain't raiding ArchAngelCD, he could sit there and wait me out while I fire off my measly 1000 rounds, then I'd have a gabillion rounds coming back at me. He's just smarter than I am.

Yeah, if it ain't here when I get back home in two weeks, I'm going to plan B and getting another pistol powder at my supplier near where I work.

Walkalong
May 11, 2014, 11:46 PM
Keep an eye out for Zip as well. Pretty darned close to W-231. You'll like it.

Bovice
May 12, 2014, 12:09 AM
I'm not even reloading anymore for the time being. I'm buying everything.

If I can't load what I want and exactly how I want, I'm not going to. Not worth my time.

gonoles_1980
May 12, 2014, 12:12 AM
Thanks, I'll look for Zip or any other pistol powder. My plan is to get the 8lbs of W231 and then continue to buy from my local supplier just so I don't get in binds like the one I'm in now.

km101
May 12, 2014, 12:14 AM
Plan B: using Green Dot for 9mm. Using Blue Dot for .40 s&w. Making frequent calls/trips to "out of the way" gun shops and other places that everyone does no think of.

Thanks Walkalong! I had not thought of Zip. I will put it on the list!

Jesse Heywood
May 12, 2014, 12:19 AM
Plan B involved 8 lbs of SR7625. It is on the endangered species list, but will get me by until HP38 is available. Seems that we are currently getting hit by a backlash on the powder shortage. I suspect many who weren't hoarders are now on the bandwagon.

ArchAngelCD
May 12, 2014, 12:26 AM
gonoles_1980,
Do you live anywhere near the Northeast of PA? I can always lend you a pound of W231 until you can get your backorder filled.

I was about to mention Zip but I see it's already been mentioned. Yes, Zip is VERY close to the performance of W231/HP-38. It's probably the best substitute. There is also Green Dot which is also in the same relative burn rate range and acts a lot like W231 but for one thing. I have found Green Dot has a very small accuracy range. With W231 you can sometimes achieve good accuracy with a full grain spread, with Green Dot sometimes you are in a .2gr ban of accuracy. (for me at least)

gonoles_1980
May 12, 2014, 12:37 AM
I live near he coast in Central Florida. My biggest issue is I'm on the road 10.5 days and home 3.5 days. I normally get my supplies at Space Coast Bullets in Melbourne, but it's a 50 minute drive. When I get home I want to spend time with the wife. All this traveling will be over in 3-4 months, but I only have a month supply left based on how I've been reloading over the time I've been home. I'm betting I will get my 8lbs before I run out. Even then, I have enough supplies for two months of range trips since I can only go every other week.

Thank you, that is a mighty generous offer from you, you are too kind :).

rondog
May 12, 2014, 01:53 AM
What do you mean by "on the road"? Flying? Driving truck? Rental cars? Personal vehicle? I used to work on the road a lot too, driving rentals and company vehicles, and I stopped at every gun shop I saw. Was always picking up supplies and other goodies when the chance arose.

gonoles_1980
May 12, 2014, 10:27 AM
Rondog - Flying, I'm out in California most of the time right now, a gun unfriendly state. That sounds cool about your getting to stop at the supply shops. If it really gets hairy for me, I'll drive to the guy in Melbourne, he usually always has some pistol powder on hand. He just didn't have any W231 or HP38 the last time I was there.

bds
May 12, 2014, 10:31 AM
Could you possibly pre-pay or leave a deposit for the powders you are looking for so when the store gets delivery of them, they can set it aside for you and email/call you for a pickup? (kinda like back-ordering)

Potatohead
May 12, 2014, 03:55 PM
Zip is fantastic. Dare I say I like it more than hp38..?

On the backorder note, Ive had 380 brass back ordered from Midway for quite awhile now. It went from due in one or two months, to overdue, and it's been saying overdue for the last month plus....my point is not to burst your bubble, but to let you know not to depend to closely on the time frame status..

chiltech500
May 12, 2014, 04:00 PM
I am on plan B with Green Dot and have found it quite accurate. I'm using 5.0 gr for 45acp and 4.0-4.2 gr for 9mm. I have been very pleased and the powder chrono's well with a low SD which is surprising to me anyway, because the flakes are very large.

When I say accurate, shot out of a Les Baer Wadcutter on a Hy Skore rest, 1-1.5 inch groups at 25 yards. The occasional higher or lower chrono'd FPS round may be an inch high/low of the main group but the majority are tight in there, very good results.

Potatohead
May 12, 2014, 04:01 PM
Thank you, that is a mighty generous offer from you, you are too kind .

Man, the folks around here are over the moon generous...I cant even describe 'em. I just haphazardly mentioned the other day in a thread that Im pretty low on brass, and I had 4 or 5 folks PM me asking me what caliber, and they could send some if i needed. And a few others pointed me in a direction to find some..unbelievably good folks around here...

Sorry for off topic but I wanted to mention that.

dickttx
May 12, 2014, 04:06 PM
Are you on an actual backorder at Midway or on their "notify me" list?
I am on the "notify me" list for HP38 but it emphasizes that I am NOT on backorder and I have to order immediately upon notification or it may be gone.

Potatohead
May 12, 2014, 04:11 PM
I suspect you're talking to the OP (but if not-my brass is backordered) and you have a good point. Their is a distinction between the notify list and the backorder list. Ive had no luck with the "notify me so I can race to log in and order lottery". I strike out every time.

Arkansas Paul
May 12, 2014, 04:21 PM
I would get concerned if there wasn't ANY powder available but not if my favorite wasn't.
I use a lot of W231/HP38 and a lot of Unique but there are several others that will do the job. Maybe not quiet as well or as to my liking, but I can do the job.

Red Dot, Green Dot and 700X were all 3 available here even at the height of the panic and while those aren't my favorite powders for handgun loading, they will do the job for most calibers.

Jlr2267
May 12, 2014, 11:20 PM
I've moved on to Plan C, ordered 4 pounds of Alliant Steel the other day.

What calibers are you loading with this?

Airman Basic
May 13, 2014, 06:23 AM
Just came in yesterday. After research and head scratching, I think I'll load some test rounds in 357, 41, and 44. The Little Dandy rotor #25 drops 12.8 grains, plus or minus 2 tenths, consistently. I'll try that load in all three rounds with Lee 140 grain SWC in 357, RCBS 210 grain in 41, and Lee 240 grain RN in 44, just 'cause they're what I use the most. Then go from there. What y'all think?

Arkansas Paul
May 13, 2014, 12:19 PM
Airman, what source did you get that data from?

Airman Basic
May 13, 2014, 01:22 PM
Airman, what source did you get that data from?
Just extrapolating and interpolating from the fact the Steel's burning rate seems to be somewhere between Herco and 2400, starting low.

arizona_cards_11
May 13, 2014, 01:48 PM
1lb - Tightgroup
1lb - Varget
1lb - H4895
12lb - WC844

I'm in trouble.......the only thing I shoot anymore is 223.

Jlr2267
May 13, 2014, 01:49 PM
Just came in yesterday. After research and head scratching, I think I'll load some test rounds in 357, 41, and 44. The Little Dandy rotor #25 drops 12.8 grains, plus or minus 2 tenths, consistently. I'll try that load in all three rounds with Lee 140 grain SWC in 357, RCBS 210 grain in 41, and Lee 240 grain RN in 44, just 'cause they're what I use the most. Then go from there. What y'all think?

I think 12.8gr in a 357 case might very well end badly if this powder is *anywhere near* Herco in terms of burn rate/pressure. Heck, that's more than my 44mag Herco load (11.5).

Airman Basic
May 13, 2014, 03:04 PM
I think 12.8gr in a 357 case might very well end badly if this powder is *anywhere near* Herco in terms of burn rate/pressure. Heck, that's more than my 44mag Herco load (11.5).
But it's in the low range for Blue Dot, and only medium high in my admittedly older Speer manuals for Herco.

ArchAngelCD
May 13, 2014, 03:27 PM
Just extrapolating and interpolating from the fact the Steel's burning rate seems to be somewhere between Herco and 2400, starting low.
The burn rate charge is a reference, not a guide on which powder to use. I have never heard of anyone using Steel for handgun cartridges. Not all shotgun powders react well in handgun applications.

Example, there are 3 powders in the Hodgdon Clays line, Clays, International clays and Universal Clays. Clays is good for target handgun loads and Universal is close in performance to Unique but up until recently Hodgdon strongly recommended not using International in handgun applications.

The burn rate chart is relative and not a guide on which powder is appropriate for loading any cartridge. I THE POWDER COMPANY DOESN'T SUPPLY DATA FOR A POWDER/CARTRIDGE COMBINATION THERE IS USUALLY A VERY GOOD REASON!

Airman Basic
May 13, 2014, 03:50 PM
The burn rate charge is a reference, not a guide on which powder to use. I have never heard of anyone using Steel for handgun cartridges. Not all shotgun powders react well in handgun applications....

There are several threads concerning Steel on the CastBoolits site, so I'm not flying completely blind. With the unavailability of conventional handgun powders, seems like a decent shot, pun intended.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171896-Alliant-Steel
for example.

Jlr2267
May 13, 2014, 03:51 PM
But it's in the low range for Blue Dot, and only medium high in my admittedly older Speer manuals for Herco.

You can do as you like, I am only suggesting to you that it could be dangerous at those levels. Personally, I would start *much* lower, like 10% below the max Herco loads listed by Alliant for each of those calibers. That would put you closer to 8gr in a 357 case

bmnloader
May 13, 2014, 03:56 PM
I finally scored some BL-C2 and some CFE223 from recobs last week and it came in today.

Potatohead
May 13, 2014, 05:22 PM
Ive seen Herco data all over the board..I'd be nervous if I was doing any extrapolating involving Herco , it seems hard to nail down. This was for 9mm in my case.

Airman Basic
May 13, 2014, 06:55 PM
Okay, y'all convinced me. Just got done with loading 10 rounds each with 10 grains of Steel in 357, 41, 44. I'll try them out tomorrow, weather permitting, and report back.

ArchAngelCD
May 14, 2014, 01:31 AM
Okay, y'all convinced me. Just got done with loading 10 rounds each with 10 grains of Steel in 357, 41, 44. I'll try them out tomorrow, weather permitting, and report back.
I can't wait for the range report. Good luck...

Airman Basic
May 14, 2014, 06:41 PM
Okay, y'all convinced me. Just got done with loading 10 rounds each with 10 grains of Steel in 357, 41, 44. I'll try them out tomorrow, weather permitting, and report back.
Okay, got it done today between showers. All rounds fired in Ruger Blackhawks, along with my tried and true loads for comparison.
The 357 was certainly a magnum load, but cases fell freely from the chambers, and the round was not as forceful as my usual load of 17 grains of 296/110 with the same 140 grain SWC.
The 41 was almost ideal, easy to shoot and almost equal to my usual 8 grains of Unique and the same 210 grain boolit. This may be my plinker of choice in 41.
The 44 was really too light, with sooted cases after the 240 grain boolit, compared to my plinking load of 9 grains Unique and the same boolit.
All rounds were accurate, target was a 4 inch dueling tree at 25 yards. All in all, about what I expected and with some tinkering, I think some fun can be had with Steel. I'll be loading some more, for the revolvers and 357 and 44 levers. Good stuff, i believe.:cool:

valleyforge.1777
May 14, 2014, 09:24 PM
I am giving some serious thought to buying some factory ammo during this extended drought of handgun reloading powder.

Just does not seem to be easing up. Don't know of anyone, anywhere who can say they've gotten any backordered Win 231, HP-38, or Titegroup. If the factory is making it, and the sellers are sending it out to back-order holders instead of putting it online for sale, then SOMEBODY must be receiving some, and I don't see anyone ever saying that they're getting any.

I am worried that the commercial ammo factories may not be able to get their powder, either, in the quantities that they need, so I think we may have another ammo panic coming along due to the backlogged powder orders. There are only a few large powder manufacturers, including St. Marks and PB Claremont. I know the commercial ammo loaders use different powders than we do, but the powders come from a few factories and that is it, and they only have so much capacity.

gonoles_1980
May 15, 2014, 12:07 AM
So my wife called about my back order of W231 and was told it's another 6 to 8 weeks. So I guess I call my guy in Melbourne and I'll buy any pistol powder that he has.

bds
May 15, 2014, 12:24 AM
Ive seen Herco data all over the board..I'd be nervous if I was doing any extrapolating involving Herco , it seems hard to nail down. This was for 9mm in my case.
You can reference my 9mm Herco thread where I tested Winchester 115 gr FMJ, Berry's 115/124 gr HBRN and Z-Cast 124 gr lead RN - www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745656

ArchAngelCD
May 15, 2014, 12:25 AM
So my wife called about my back order of W231 and was told it's another 6 to 8 weeks. So I guess I call my guy in Melbourne and I'll buy any pistol powder that he has.
Can you find a can of Zip locally to hold you over?

gonoles_1980
May 15, 2014, 01:05 AM
I get back home next week with 5 days off. I'll see what the guy at space coast bullets has.

Potatohead
May 15, 2014, 09:11 AM
You can reference my 9mm Herco thread where I tested Winchester 115 gr FMJ, Berry's 115/124 gr HBRN and Z-Cast 124 gr lead RN - www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745656
Thanks B

cfullgraf
May 15, 2014, 04:13 PM
Just in case, start making plan B, Plan C, etc. and look for alternate powders.



During the shortages in 2009, I bought some alternate powders to keep me going. With some other work I did in the past trying out alternate powders, I have loads already developed for several powders.

It keeps the investment in Tums to a minimum and I have an established Plan B, Plan C, and so forth.

I discovered True Blue in 2009 and liked it so much it replaced my main powder for one or two cartridges. So, i was able to turn the shortages into a benefit for me.

Sounds like I need to try Zip when i see a pound.

Jlr2267
May 15, 2014, 04:24 PM
The 357 was certainly a magnum load, but cases fell freely from the chambers, and the round was not as forceful as my usual load of 17 grains of 296/110 with the same 140 grain SWC.

Glad to hear you didn't pack12.8 grains in the 357 case for a starting load. You might have gotten a nasty surprise!

Airman Basic
May 15, 2014, 04:53 PM
Actually, I think I could have gone up with the charge, but I was trying to duplicate a plinking charge anyway. Tried some more today and settled on 9 grains for 357, 10 for 41, and 11 for 44. If I run out of Unique, I'll have 4 pounds of Steel backup. Makes me feel better.

Potatohead
May 15, 2014, 06:45 PM
Sounds like I need to try Zip when i see a pound.

Ten bucks says you like it if you try it.:)

ICE1210
May 16, 2014, 09:53 AM
OP,
I feel your pain. I started this current shortage fat, dumb, and happy with an 8 pound jug of TiteGroup. I am now down to my last half pound, while I have plenty of loaded ammo, I can't find anymore powder. What did they do, burn the factory down?

HOWARD J
May 16, 2014, 11:54 AM
I was able to find one pound of rifle powder in the last year--no pistol powder.
Been reloading about 40 years--have enuf pistol powder to keep me good for about 3--4 years

1KPerDay
May 16, 2014, 11:56 AM
I've moved on to Plan C, ordered 4 pounds of Alliant Steel the other day.
Can you use STEEL for handgun? I've been curious about that. You can use pretty much every other shotgun powder so I assume it will work... is there data available?

bds
May 16, 2014, 12:15 PM
I can't find anymore powder. What did they do, burn the factory down?
For many reasons not appropriate for this THR subcatgegory, many people started to reload and added to the existing demand for reloading components.

Current shortage of powders is simply demand outstripping supply.

Jlr2267
May 16, 2014, 12:59 PM
Can you use STEEL for handgun? I've been curious about that. You can use pretty much every other shotgun powder so I assume it will work... is there data available?

I don't think there is published data available for this powder in handgun cartridges.

Potatohead
May 16, 2014, 01:54 PM
I believe earlier in the thread, he was going to try to find a start charge, unless I read something wrong trying to speed read a thread.

RussellC
May 16, 2014, 08:55 PM
OP,
I feel your pain. I started this current shortage fat, dumb, and happy with an 8 pound jug of TiteGroup. I am now down to my last half pound, while I have plenty of loaded ammo, I can't find anymore powder. What did they do, burn the factory down?
In fact, a Hodgdon factory (in Australia) did burn to the ground. Dont know if it was responsible for titegroup....I have read it was responsible for making shotgun powders.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10599

Russellc

ArchAngelCD
May 17, 2014, 02:26 AM
In fact, a Hodgdon factory (in Australia) did burn to the ground. Dont know if it was responsible for titegroup....I have read it was responsible for making shotgun powders.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10599

Russellc
Unfortunately anyone using Clays, Universal, Longshot and Lil'Gun are are going to be on the short side of supplies for a while. I don't think HS-6 was made in that factory thank goodness!!! I think H110 might be affected too but I'm not sure of that one.

Pilot
May 17, 2014, 04:53 AM
I can't find any pistol powders at my usual haunts either. I have enough left to get through a few months. I use mostly Clays, Titegroup, and HP-38.

Havok7416
May 17, 2014, 09:08 AM
Unfortunately anyone using Clays, Universal, Longshot and Lil'Gun are are going to be on the short side of supplies for a while. I don't think HS-6 was made in that factory thank goodness!!! I think H110 might be affected too but I'm not sure of that one.
As far as I know H110 was not affected by that fire. I find it all over.

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