Extractor damaging my cases


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spitballer
May 12, 2014, 04:36 PM
My Rem 700 "new style" extractor is damaging my cases. It has been doing this since the day I bought it new. It seems the extractor spring doesn't push all the way out and slip over the case rim, but instead takes a chunk out of the case rim every time. I've tried tweaking with a pair of pliers to no avail. A replacement extractor spring does the same thing!

This for the .223.

Anyone have a remedy?

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HCP Gunsmithing
May 13, 2014, 07:46 AM
Is this for a riveted style extractor? If so, there is no extractor spring so I'm not sure which part you mean. Does it have a Sako or M16 style extractor installed?

It could be the profile or width of the extractor if everything else is kosher.

Do you have problems with it extracting case even when they are un-fired?

spitballer
May 13, 2014, 02:45 PM
No, this is not the "rivet" style. This is the "new style" extractor, fits under the rim of the bolt face kind of like a circlip.

The extractor I use is also used for at least two other calibers: the .17 Remington and one other, offhand I can't remember which one, possibly the .222. A check online revealed that this extractor has been problematic for the .223.

I like the Remington "three rings of steel" and therefore I'm reluctant to switch to a sako-style extractor system, but I spend good money on brass and I don't like seeing it get chewed up by this "new extractor".

Are there any other Rem .223 bolt aficionados out there who have dealt with this issue?

rcmodel
May 13, 2014, 03:20 PM
Maybe a little judicious deburring / polishing if there is a sharp stamped edge cutting into the case rim.

rc

HCP Gunsmithing
May 14, 2014, 07:31 AM
This may be a long shot but if you've tried two extractors and they both failed I would suspect the extractor groove in the bolt face. If the groove was not machined properly, it may not be allowing the extractor enough free movement to pop over the rim of the case. I have heard about mis-machined extractor grooves on other 700s.

I would suggest check out what they can do for you if the gun is still under warranty but they may be too busy with the recall...

spitballer
May 14, 2014, 12:20 PM
The extractor can be pushed into the groove manually and has plenty of clearance for the case rim. But in practice this never happens.This is why I'm thinking that the extractor spring simply needs to be tweaked somehow.

243winxb
May 14, 2014, 05:48 PM
Post #11 maybe?? http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=734694

spitballer
May 15, 2014, 11:07 AM
Just checked link and it was informative but not really applicable for my situation. nevertheless, thanks to 243winxb, HCPgunsmithing, and rcmodel, for responding to this thread.

The fact that this situation seems to be unusual is actually a good sign; this means it's less likely to be a design issue and more likely to be a matter of adjustment.

At the moment my rifle is in the shop being re-barreled. This is how the issue was raised again. I was afraid the extractor would damage the go/no go gauges when the finish reaming was done. Normally the extractor is not a big issue for me although it is inconvenient having to file case rims every time I reload.

Thanks again for all the input. I will check this thread from time to time if anyone has any more info about the "new style" extractor for the Remington 700 in .223 caliber, thanks in advance.

BBBBill
May 15, 2014, 12:35 PM
Normally you remove the extractor and ejector when checking headspace to avoid any possible false readings and to prevent damage/wear on the gages.

fguffey
May 15, 2014, 12:44 PM
I have cases that appear to have damage to the rim, it could said I have a set of cases. All of the cases have a cut through the rim. the cut was caused by the extractor, the extractor did not jump the rim when the bolt closed, the extractor took out what appears to be a plug, they are once fired and have the original primers.

If your extractor is cutting the rim it is not jumping the rim.

F. Guffey

gamestalker
May 15, 2014, 02:15 PM
I recently went through some very frustrating issues with a 700 extractor, as 243winxb referenced, it was a riveted style (7mm RM), but none the less it still functions on the same principal as the new style. When I finally solved the issue, it turned out to be an issue with the recessed grove that the extractor rides in. It was actually a very simple fix once I stopped trying to over diagnose the problem, they really are that simplistic in design.

Something to check, considering you are experiencing rim damage, is your scope mount screws. If the wrong base screws, are in the wrong places, the longer one's will extend down far enough to make contact with the case rim when closing / opening the action. I've seen this happen quite a few times.

GS

chris allen
May 15, 2014, 09:01 PM
If the bevel on the extractor is not blended with the bevel on the inside of the bolt face it will tear a chunk off the base of the case as you try to close the bolt . If you look carefully you will see a flat portion of the extractor ,usually above the portion of the extractor that will pull the case out

It is a simple fix .Using a dremel tool and a taper gratex polishing point blend it in . I have lost count of how many I have done .
Chris

rcmodel
May 15, 2014, 09:46 PM
I tried to say that in post #4.

Unfortunately, I apparently failed to get the point (or sharp stamped edge) across to the OP.

Maybe not Blunt or Sharp enough wording on my part.

(No double puns intended!). :D

rc

spitballer
May 16, 2014, 03:25 PM
BBBBill - thanks, I did not know that removal of the extractor mechanisms was normally done prior to finish reaming. This is good news! I will convey to the shop my desire to retain the original bolt assembly instead of possibly switching to a sako style extractor system.

chris allen - I follow what you're saying and I will definitely be re-checking the slope when I get my rifle returned. As I recall, there WAS a flat area at the top of the slope. It seems to me that I would want the "hook" portion of the spring to extend as far as possible to get a secure grip on the rim, but the lead-in for the case is going to have to be as smooth as possible, and this may even involve a steeper slope.

Gentlemen at this point I have a much better idea of what I'm dealing with here and I thank you for the valuable input. - TH

spitballer
May 21, 2014, 02:47 PM
question for chris allen - okay, a light bulb went on after going over this thread again. Are you saying that the ramp of the extractor needs to be hollowed out, essentially? In other words, the ramp needs to be cupped or concave, therefore having a slightly concave edge at the bottom of the ramp that would roughly approximate the arc of the case rim?

spitballer
May 22, 2014, 11:22 AM
rcmodel - your concise post may actually be the last word on this subject. I'll file or grind the tip judiciously and let it go at that. Thanks.

4v50 Gary
May 22, 2014, 11:59 AM
Regarding SAKO type extractors, they require milling on the bolt for installation. This defeats the purpose of the Rem 700 bolt design's "Three Rings of Steel." In event of a case failure, the bolt head is designed to expand, effectively sealing the breech and preventing gas from escaping rearward toward the user. Milling a slot in the bolt head for the SAKO extractor defeats the design. You get neither the controlled feeding of a Mauser 98 nor the sealed breech of a Rem 700 --- in short, the worst of both designs.

I'd rather have a fresh Rem extractor installed. It's cheaper.

chris allen
May 23, 2014, 08:47 PM
If you have the bolt with the extractor in the recess , look at where the portion of the extractor that actually will pull the case out . You do not want modify edge of the extractor that grabs the case . Look above that where the bolt nose blend and the extractor meet .There should be a smooth transition .Lots of times there is not .May be a tiny flat . Take an empty case and try to push it straight onto the bolt face .If it slides down to contact the bolt face with minimal effort ,no problems .If you can't get it to go with out maximum effort or having to tilt the case ,you will need to blend the top edge (the that points towards the muzzle ) of the extract so that it blend in a smooth transition to the bolt nose . Took longer to type this tan it takes to do the work . If you are not sure of what you are doing have a pro look at it as you can ruin a bolt !
Chris

chris allen
May 24, 2014, 01:07 PM
If you are putting a new extractor in you can bevel the edge before of the extractor you put it in .
Chris

spitballer
June 2, 2014, 10:19 AM
I agree this is probably easier done than written about. As I recall, I tried tweaking the spring at one point so that the flat spot you're referring to was not exposed. Cases were easily pushed in by hand but, in practice, bolt would still not close over them properly. This is when it occurred to me that the spring might be binding as a result of rearward pressure.

Are you saying that I should shorten the tip by a steepening of the slope? This actually does make some sense...

spitballer
June 4, 2014, 09:44 AM
Problem solved! Rifle came back from Pac-Nor barreling yesterday and they must have done some tweaking on it because now it's working like never before. I have a spare extractor on order, and will definitely be comparing the two when it comes in next week.

Thanks to HCP gunsmithing, rcmodel, 243winxB, BBBBill, fguffey, gamestalker, chris allen, and 4v50gary for discussion.

And big thanks to Pac-Nor Barreling in Brookings, OR for helping me to build the range rifle I've always wanted. - TH

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