does any one know of a match grade or very accurate 380


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furfinsandfeathers
May 17, 2014, 08:42 AM
Does anyone know of a accurate 380 other than the Walther PPK? My 11 and 14 year old daughters like shooting at bowling pins using a Bersa... We load it with 90gr. LRN and it shoots surprisingly well but I would like to upgrade it. Has anyone heard of a 380 with a match grade barrel?

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Havok7416
May 17, 2014, 09:04 AM
I've never heard of a .380 with match-grade ANYTHING. They are relegated to carry pistols. Well ok, the VZ61 Skorpion too!

WestKentucky
May 17, 2014, 09:30 AM
I had a llama minimax that would stack up rounds like crazy out to about 40 yards when the groups started opening up. I had come into money trouble fresh out of college and sold my first shotgun to dad to get some grocery money. That llama went to dad as he is a cheapskate 1911 freak and I wanted my shotgun back. Too bad I cracked the reciever on that shotgun shooting a lot of turkey loads into coyotes up close and personal.

Drail
May 17, 2014, 09:45 AM
Shooting a bowling pins with a .380 is ill advised. I have personally seen .38 Spl. and 9mm bullets bounce off of pins and come back to the line. Several times. I saw one guy standing right next to me have a lightly loaded bullet come back and strike him right between the eyes. Be very careful if you are going to do this. Those pins are much harder than most people think. Reactive targets are a lot of fun but think about one of your precious daughters being rushed to a hospital. Be safe.

jimbo555
May 17, 2014, 09:52 AM
My beretta 84 is very accurate.

IBEWBULL
May 17, 2014, 09:57 AM
Chuck Hawks
http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_380_pistols.htm

I would look for a nice K frame Smith and Wesson in .38 special her.

That being said , now to drift back on course.
The Bersa is a better choice than a plastic pocket gun.
The CZ , Beretta http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-239325.html

Shear_stress
May 17, 2014, 10:24 AM
If you're set on the .380, track down a Browning 1910/71. These were imported in the 70s after importation of the Model 1910/1955 was banned by the Gun Control Act of 1968. The 1910/71 was fitted with a long barrel, adjustable sights and thumbrest grips.

Girodin
May 17, 2014, 11:00 AM
I don't know that it is match grade, but I was rather impressed with the accuracy of the CZ82s I've fired. I'd imagine that a CZ 83 (essentially the same gun chambered in .380 instead of 9x17 Makarov) would likely be very accurate as well.

That said they are blowback guns and felt recoil is more pronounced than with other guns of similar caliber. I've not shot any of the .380s so I cannot speak to it. With the 9mm Mak the gun has as much or more felt recoil than a number of my 9x19 pistols. Given that is also relatively large, at least in the makarov chambering it quickly begs the question why not a 9x19? Maybe someone will have better input specific to the CZ 83.

Kahr advertises their P380 as having a "Lothar Walther match grade barrel"

http://www.kahr.com/pistols/kahr-p380.asp

Of course I think they say the same thing concerning the K9. Again the tiny size and light weight might mean the little bitty 380 is more difficult to shoot than the larger steel frame K9 (or similar 9x19 gun).

MikeJackmin
May 17, 2014, 02:05 PM
I came here to say "CZ83" and "Beretta" but I see that others have beaten me to it. The CZ s are both wonderful and inexpensive, but the Berettas are worth the extra cost if you can afford it.

I've seen used, Israeli-surplus Beretta .380s on gunbroker, and the CZs can turn up anywhere. If you do get a used pistol, clean it well and drop in a new, five dollar recoil spring and you're good to go.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/BI.aspx?ca=5000112&mfg=1000038

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/BI.aspx?Keywords=cz83

Wil Terry
May 17, 2014, 03:21 PM
MY ASTRA CONSTABLE II will shoot right at 1 1/8" at 25 yards dead on the sights with FEDERAL 90gr JHP loads. ALL of my handloads with JHP or LRN/LRF cast bullets shoot right at 1 1/2" at 25 yards all day long.
SHUCKS, my BERSA is accurate enought to knock off blackbirds at 35 yards.
And so it goes...

Nom de Forum
May 17, 2014, 07:45 PM
My beretta 84 is very accurate.

That is also my experience with the Beretta 84 with jacketed bullets of 95grs and cast lead bullets up to 121grs. It is also my experience that girls and women love the looks and feel of the older curving trigger-guard Beretta 84s. The same can be said of the old Browning BDA .380.

Sam Cade
May 17, 2014, 09:03 PM
I'll vouch for the astonishing accuracy exhibited by most CZ-82/83s.

huntsman
May 17, 2014, 09:09 PM
The double stack 84 might be too thick for small hands so the 85 would work if this was the case, A Sig P-232 was very accurate maybe a bit better than the BDA I kept.

rcmodel
May 17, 2014, 10:23 PM
Buy a S&W Model 14 Target Masterpiece .38 Special revolver.
Shoot 148 wad-cutter target ammo in it.

And everyone can Bee Happy!

rc

VA27
May 17, 2014, 11:16 PM
If you're set on the .380, track down a Browning 1910/71. These were imported in the 70s after importation of the Model 1910/1955 was banned by the Gun Control Act of 1968. The 1910/71 was fitted with a long barrel, adjustable sights and thumbrest grips.
This. I deeply regret selling mine.

bannockburn
May 18, 2014, 10:19 AM
Both Berettas I owned, a Model 84 and Model 85, were very accurate. I would also venture to say a Model 70 would also do well in terms of accuracy.

19-3Ben
May 18, 2014, 10:56 AM
My Sig P232SL is extraordinarily accurate for a gun. The fact that it is small, and female shooters seem to gravitate to it (perhaps due to the super sleek and sexy lines?) is just a plus.

Jim Watson
May 18, 2014, 11:14 AM
I think a 9mm P with low end loads would be accurate and more comfortable to shoot than a .380.
I was able to get one down to 9mm Makarov ballistics, to see if it would be a reasonable caliber conversion back when Mak ammo was dirt cheap.

The club teenybopper was shooting a 3913 at age 11 and a 1911 at 13.

MedWheeler
May 18, 2014, 12:30 PM
I think a 9mm P with low end loads would be accurate and more comfortable to shoot than a .380.

Possibly true, but the OP has already stated that his daughters enjoy shooting the Bersa .380, which is a blowback-operated pistol. Comfort doesn't seem to be an issue.

Jim Watson
May 18, 2014, 08:49 PM
Yeah, but he wants something more accurate, too.

ApacheCoTodd
May 18, 2014, 09:12 PM
I'd say look for a nice CZ 83 as others have said.

Also, a Colt Government Model .380 - these and Mustangs have been made into very accurate pistols - slim and pretty to boot.

Istvan
May 18, 2014, 10:21 PM
As many have already said, the .380 auto was originally designed to be a military/law enforcement/self defence cartridge in various countries, and to my knowledge, no match grade ammunition is, or has been manufactured. Sticking to your criteria of caliber and gun model, the only options I can think of are either hand loading, or sticking to the reputable, major ammunition manufacturers. The only experience I have with the .380 was an old PPK, which I no longer have, and a 1934 Beretta which was brought back from North Africa after the war. Certainly not match-grade by any stretch of the imagination, but both were fantastic shooters.
As a side note, as a few others have said, I would be a bit nervous about using a .380 for bowling pins, just my opinion though.

ArchAngelCD
May 19, 2014, 12:08 PM
I have to agree the CZ 380's are accurate guns and so is the Sig P232 but I have to add the Sig P238. The Sig P238 is like a 1911 shrunk down to .380 size. It's a all steel gun with a 1911 action so the felt recoil is low and the SA trigger is great. The two I have shot have been easy to shoot well and very accurate. I highly suggest the Sig P238! (great trigger!)
http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p238.aspx

Jim K
May 20, 2014, 08:06 PM
IIRC. there have been a few target pistols made in .32 ACP, but I don't know of any gun in .380 that could really be called a target pistol. That does not mean that some of the small guns in that caliber are not accurate for that type of gun, but I don't know of any that could compete at 25 and 50 yards with a real target pistol.

Jim

JERRY
May 20, 2014, 08:27 PM
Sig Sauer P232, one of the most accurate guns I own.

Hurryin' Hoosier
May 20, 2014, 08:44 PM
I never found a PPK or a PPK/S which was any more accurate that a CZ83 or a Beretta 84. (Have you been watching too many James Bond movies? :cool: )

P5 Guy
May 20, 2014, 09:38 PM
Hi-Standard model G 380, if you can find one.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/High-Standard-Model-G-Auto/1754457.uts

Scarpia
May 24, 2014, 07:59 AM
Has anyone heard of a 380 with a match grade barrel?

I can't answer your specific question but I can say that I and my 68 year old shooting and motorcycling partner are getting excellent accuracy with the Tristar C100 in 380 Auto and Browning BDA 380. My lady friend's stature and hand size are probably simliar to your 14 year old daughter's so I'd take a close look at these guns. I don't believe either are being imported so you would have to look at the used market.

The Canik55 C100 is a high quality clone of the CZ compact 9mm but chambered in 380. My Browning BDA 380 was made by Beretta for Browning. It is bascially the Beretta 84 but with a closed slide unlike the 'open' slide used by Beretta.

Scarpia
May 24, 2014, 08:10 AM
Has anyone heard of a 380 with a match grade barrel?

Forgot to mention, the Bersa Thunder 380 series is a relatively large framed 380 and a great shooter. Mine is the M85, all steel frame 1980's vintage of their current 380.

md2lgyk
May 24, 2014, 10:13 AM
I have personally seen .38 Spl. and 9mm bullets bounce off of pins and come back to the line.

True. I have personally had 230-grain .45 bullets bounce off a pin and come back at me.

Havok7416
May 24, 2014, 10:58 AM
Forgot to mention, the Bersa Thunder 380 series is a relatively large framed 380 and a great shooter. Mine is the M85, all steel frame 1980's vintage of their current 380.
I believe the OP stated he already had a Bersa.

Indigo22
May 24, 2014, 08:34 PM
I'll second the Browning BDA.... My wife laid claim to it and I never got it back. Very accurate and reliable little gun.

mackg
May 26, 2014, 12:08 AM
Sphinx used to (?) make one.

toivo
May 26, 2014, 01:44 AM
People have mentioned the CZ82 (9MM Makarov) and CZ83 (.380 ACP). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the polygonal rifling of the 82 is at least partly responsible for its accuracy. The 83 has conventional rifling.

browningguy
June 1, 2014, 02:57 PM
We shot my daughters new Witness Pavona in .380 and it's at least as accurate as my best Browning 1971. I'll try to post a review later today.

chicharrones
June 1, 2014, 06:43 PM
If you're set on the .380, track down a Browning 1910/71. These were imported in the 70s after importation of the Model 1910/1955 was banned by the Gun Control Act of 1968. The 1910/71 was fitted with a long barrel, adjustable sights and thumbrest grips.

I know I'm late to the thread, but that is one interesting looking pistola. :)

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/browning-10-71-380-acp-pr26329/#.U4uq2SjN6So

R.W.Dale
June 1, 2014, 06:54 PM
You can order a .380 acp bbl made for a TC contender from a few different outfits.

THAT would be an accurate 380

JTHunter
June 2, 2014, 05:30 PM
Wil Terry - Good for you!
I have a Constable as well since the mid-70's. I reload 90, 95, and 100 grain loads and are as accurate as you state out to 25 yards. I wouldn't want to shoot beyond that as the bullets are too light to do serious damage.
It was the second handgun I ever bought - the first was a 7" Ruger .22 auto - long gone.

Giterboosted
June 3, 2014, 08:56 PM
It's a bit on the small side but the sig 238 is probably the easiest to shoot and most accurate .380 I've ever handled

Sunray
June 5, 2014, 03:43 PM
There are no target barreled or sighted .380's. Don't think there are any that aren't pocket pistols either. In any case, you'd have to find one that will fit both girl's hand.
Um, size doesn't matter. Any bullet can bounce back from a bowling pin, .45's included. There was a .22 shoot at Second Chance, long ago, as well.
"...a few target pistols made in .32 ACP..." Um, can you name one? The .32 ACP isn't a target cartridge either. .32 S&W Long is though.

Monac
July 21, 2014, 03:59 AM
I know the odds that the original poster will ever see this are low, but I thought I would put it up for general education:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=429655680

It's a Bernardelli Model 90, an honest-to-gosh 380 ACP target pistol. I did not think there was such a thing, unless you count the adjustable-sight version of the Browning 1910 that FN cooked up to get around the import restrictions of the Gun Control Act of 1968. Apparently this style of Bernardelli was also made in 32 ACP and 22 LR. Only the last one makes any sense to me.

(I also forgot about the High Standard Model G, as pointed out by a previous poster.)

I have no connection to the seller.

cdb1
July 21, 2014, 08:02 PM
I have a CZ 82 and 83, Sig P232 and a Bersa. The 82 is the most accurate and I can't tell the difference between the other three. My dream .380 is the Beretta Cheetah.

Byrd666
July 21, 2014, 08:27 PM
CZ83 or a Colt Government .380 if you can find either

aarondhgraham
July 22, 2014, 09:35 AM
I own both the Thunder 380 and the Beretta 85BB,,,
Personally I hit a wee bit better with the Beretta,,,
But I think it's because the grips fit me better.

A lady friend can outshoot me with her Bersa 380,,,
No matter which of my pistols I'm shooting.

Frame-wise they are very close in size,,,
So you're not getting a longer sight radius,,,
At least not enough difference to really matter.

http://www.aarondgraham.com/pics/BersaBeretta.jpg

I've fired a lot of 380 pistols because I like the cartridge,,,
I really don't think you are going to find any difference in accuracy.

You can spend money "upgrading" from the Bersa,,,
But I don't think your return on investment will be very great.

Just my thoughts,,,

Aarond

.

1John1:9
July 22, 2014, 12:52 PM
My Sig P232 points naturally better than any gun I've every shot. I tried it once at 25 yards, and it didn't do as well as I had hoped. But at 7 to 10 yards, I get better groups than with any other handgun. It truly excels at the close up drills where you shoot from the retention position.

MachIVshooter
July 22, 2014, 01:17 PM
I came here to say "CZ83" and "Beretta"

Another vote for those two.

bannockburn
July 22, 2014, 02:43 PM
I would have to say my Beretta Models 84 and 85 were probably the most accurate of any of the .380s I have had. Next up would be my Colt Government .380 and Colt Mustang, both of which are easy to shoot (thanks to some very nice SA triggers), and likewise easy to conceal. Accuracy, while decent enough for what they were designed for, could be better with some higher visibility sights. Currently I would say my most accurate .380 is my SIG P238. While sharing the design features of the Colt .380s, the P238 does enjoy the advantage of having some very nice (and quick to pick up), night sights on it.
URL=http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/TailoAltera/media/guns2035_zpseff88eb7.jpg.html]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z334/TailoAltera/guns2035_zpseff88eb7.jpg[/URL]

Jim K
July 22, 2014, 04:57 PM
The OP asked about .380 caliber match pistols. While some small pistols are quite accurate for that type of gun, not many will shoot 4" groups at 50 yards, something a top match pistol should do. I would like to see a 50 yard or even a 25 yard target shot with a Bersa, Beretta, or any of the other small pistols mentioned. BTW, the High Standard G-380 is not really very accurate.

Jim

rskent
July 22, 2014, 06:53 PM
Like bannockburn I love my little 238. Its a great carry gun and its fun to shoot but it ainít no match gun. Not by any standard.

Shoot66
July 25, 2014, 08:42 AM
Actually, I do know about one exactly as the OP asked. Grand Power Roxor. It is produced by Grand Power (their products were formerly distributed as STI GP5 and GP6, now under their own brand-name). The .380 ACP Roxor was produced for the Brazilian market where 9x19 is illegal in private hands.
I had a chance to test it last month and the exemplar was a one-hole gun (at 15 yards).
Check with the Century Arms.

Edited: I double checked, Grand Power terminated cooperation with Century Arms. The new distributor is Double Eagle.

Shoot66
August 5, 2014, 08:26 AM
Pictures: .380 Long and .380 Roxor

sixgunner455
August 5, 2014, 03:52 PM
That Bernadelli is still available.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=432431378

boom boom
August 6, 2014, 07:18 PM
German made PPK's are very accurate but not very fun to shoot due to recoil, tiny sights, slide cutting of the hand with a high grip, and a very heavy double action to start. I can generally get one hole at 7 yrds firing from a rest with it but it gets to be work fast.

Generally speaking, some have opined that barrels that are attached to the frame such as the PPK, many Makarov clones, and CZ 82/83 are more accurate because they remove one more variable (barrel/slide fit) from the semi auto accuracy equation. Can also personally vouch for accuracy of the Sig P 238, it is a fun gun to shoot and might be good prep if your girls want to shoot bullseye with a 1911 someday. Surprised that no one mentioned the new Glock in .380 though.

Might also be able to tighten groups by careful handloading--might want to fire heavy lead bullets especially at bowling pins. Like others, I would be afraid of bouncing a FMJ back at me.

5-SHOTS
August 7, 2014, 05:51 AM
Bernardelli made some guns with a barrel longer than the slide and adjustable sights: Bernardelli 60 and AMR. I'm sure there was a version chambered for the .32ACP, not sure about the .380ACP.

warhwkbb
August 7, 2014, 09:43 AM
Any blow-back operated pistol is inherently more accurate because of the fixed barrel. But with small pistols, a good trigger and sights are more important. I have a Colt Gov 380, Pocketlite and the Sig 238.

The Little Sig 238 is not the most accurate, (the Pocketlite beat it out slightly) but it the easiest to shoot well due to a nice trigger and exceptional sights.

The Colt Government 380 has been a real disappointment as far as accuracy. But it is by far the most comfortable to shoot.

Artym
August 7, 2014, 09:45 AM
My first handgun was a Beretta 70S. It was a cool looking gun, but it did not shoot as good as it looked.
It was unreliable, and began to break after it "broke in." The slide hold open lever was no good, nor was the replacement.

golden
August 7, 2014, 07:13 PM
My experience with .380ACP pistols is that the BERETTA 84 and SIG 232 are the most accurate. For a teen girl, you may find the thinner grip of the BERETTA 85 is preferable to the double stack magazine of the BERETTA 84.

Good ammo helps in this, a lot!

On late production BERETTA models, you can also use the safety to drop the hammer which is a big safety plus compared with lowering the hammer manually. The BERETTA is also the most reliable .380ACP pistol I have every shot. The same goes for the .32ACP model 82. The both feed almost anything.

The SIG has always had a decocker, a SIG trademark. The SIG 232 also has a choice of grips. The base model with aluminum frame is my favorite. It fits my mid size hand like a glove. The stainless models have fingergrip style stocks which I do not like, but some love.

Both have good triggers and sights. Disassembly and reassembly on these two guns is also very easy.

I have shot the CZ 82 in 9m.m. MAKAROV, but not the CZ83 in .380ACP. It was very accurate and well made, with a smooth trigger. The CZ does not have the hammer dropper, so I downgrade it to a "B" for that reason.

The BROWNING 1910, 1922, 1955 and 1971 are all basic variations on the original model 1910. They are all very well made pistols except for WW II Nazi production. They are single action only with no way to decock, that and the rising prices make it more of a collectable, than a shooter. Still, well made and basically accurate. The 1910 and 1955, same gun, but the 1955 was imported after WW II had micro sights designed for not catching on clothing, not hitting anything past 10 yards. You can shoot out to 15 yards with them, but it can be a real challenge.

COLT 1908 is a very well made gun, but is already a collector price. Also, small sights and expensive magazines if you stick with original COLT'S.
Plus the lack of decocker works against it.

The later COLT Government series in the full size models (not MUSTANG) had short, single action triggers and decent sights. I found mine shot well, but I do not like single action semi-autos for carry and sold mine. The lack of decocker was the deciding factor in my parting with it.

The new GLOCK 42 is a fantastic pocket pistol and more accurate than I expected. The negative is that the short barrel/slide mean a short sight radius (good sight design, though) and short grip make its practical accuracy less than you would get with the BERETTA 80 series or SIG 232.
Very reliable as long as you do not limp wrist it.

The WALTHER PP may have something to offer as it is the PPK with a longer grip and barrel. The negatives are the trigger is not a good as the BERETTA and SIG. Actual WALTHER made guns and some S&W made have a slightly gritty, but still usable trigger. Those made by INTERARMS can be really bad. S&W only made the PPK and PPK/S if I remember right. Also sights are not as good as the BERETTA and SIG.


Just my experience

Jim

Monac
August 7, 2014, 09:50 PM
My first handgun was a Beretta 70S. It was a cool looking gun, but it did not shoot as good as it looked.
It was unreliable, and began to break after it "broke in." The slide hold open lever was no good, nor was the replacement.
Your bad experience with a Beretta is unusual, Artym. I've had a couple Beretta 22s from the Model 70 series, and they have been excellent guns. The hold-open was the problem, and not the magazine?

Artym
August 7, 2014, 10:58 PM
It was the slide lever. I think that they made a batch where the metal was too hard and brittle. The 380 cartridge slams the slide back pretty hard to overcome the stiff recoil spring. The 22 wouldn't have to cope with as much energy.

safebustr
August 8, 2014, 12:11 AM
I have the Sig P-230, very accurate and one of the best shooters I own.

Combat Engineer
August 8, 2014, 08:28 AM
"does any one know of a match grade or very accurate 380...other than the Walther PPK?" [furfinsandfeathers]

One of my smallest carry pieces, shot a 1" group at 50 yards. Ammo used, .380 cal, 95 grain fmj, RWS SPORT LINE MATCH GRADE, made in Hungary. A couple of years ago I bought a goodly lot at my (no kidding) local grocery store. But then the shortage came and I have not seen any 380 ammo.

The Sig P238, has no business being that accurate, but maybe it was the coffee, or the ammo? Or maybe I cheated? Was leaning up against a post and used my weak hand to steady my aim.

Having said that, just about all guns leave the factory with combat accuracy, about 3", then you get one that is flat out accurate, and those are keepers.

"The .32 ACP isn't a target cartridge either. " [Sunray]

:cuss: Would have to disagree, George Patton, of military fame, was quite the pistolero, and once fired 2 shots thru the same hole during a competition with his 32ACP Colt M1903. The RO disagreed, said the bullet completely missed the paper, Patton smiled but did not protest, he knew better. ( Later during WW2, Patton tried to down a Nazi ground attack aircraft with a .380 Remington 51). Bigger bullet, don'tcha know.

The 32ACP is a very accurate round (and an economical hand-load) which hits with great accuracy out of a Colt M1903, J.P. Sauer & Son M1913, Walther M4, Walther PPK, Steyr M1908, and Sig P230, to name several.

In America, the 32ACP cartridge has never enjoyed the popularity of the 380ACP cartridge.

Vodoun da Vinci
August 8, 2014, 10:13 AM
I'm late to the party on this thread but have you considered finding an older Thomson Center Contender with a .380 acp barrel? My Father in Law had such a beast - he loved his T/C pistols and had barrels for calibers you'd never imagine including .380 and .32.

I believe his were 10" and accuracy/performance of both .380 and .32 were surprising out of that gun even at 100 yards.

Just an idea....his T/C and barrels "disappeared" some time ago well before his death. I suspect someone in the family looted them and sold them as he aged and lost track of them. But that's another story...I know T/C had barrels chambered in .380 and that they were very accurate if you can find this stuff online somewhere.

VooDoo

SC Shooter
August 8, 2014, 04:39 PM
I have a Walther PK 380 that is very accurate, and racks very easily which might be a plus for your daughters.

CNobbe
August 9, 2014, 09:02 PM
The two most accurate 380s I've owned (wish I still had) were a CZ-83..phenominal trigger and a Russian IJ-70 18A I think it was called (Makarov in .380 ACP). That was incredibly accurate and way more reliable the the PPKs I owned.

Both blowback/fixed barrel guns which are always better in the accuracy dept.

Monac
August 9, 2014, 09:40 PM
In America, the 32ACP cartridge has never enjoyed the popularity of the 380ACP cartridge.

That has been true since 1945. Before WWII, however, Colt, Savage, and Remington all made several times as many 32 automatics as 380s.

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