The Sam Cade Thread of Knifey Goodness


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JShirley
May 23, 2014, 09:49 PM
Sam, you've posted a lot of pictures of knives you've made in assorted threads recently.

Any chance we could get them shown all in one thread, in order of build? I'd love to see the progression.

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Sam Cade
May 23, 2014, 10:49 PM
Sure. Let me collate some things. :cool:

Deltaboy
May 24, 2014, 11:07 PM
Sweet this should be Great.

bikerdoc
May 25, 2014, 01:56 AM
If you do it I will also, :)

Sam Cade
May 25, 2014, 02:14 AM
You guys want process and equipment pictures too?


My quench plates are steel 45lb weights. ;)

bikerdoc
May 25, 2014, 02:27 AM
Yes please, if it not too much trouble, We have much too learn from you. Talk about sharpening also please.

Readyrod
May 25, 2014, 12:16 PM
This is going to be sweeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!

hso
May 25, 2014, 12:17 PM
Pics, vid, animation, shadow puppets, etc.

Sam Cade
May 25, 2014, 03:10 PM
A quick lap around the kitchen and desk turns these up, arranged in roughly chronological order:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198833&stc=1&d=1401040586

It isn't everything I've made, I'm pretty ruthless with my testing and have broken lots of test pieces.
There are also multiples of most of the later knives since I've sold some.
The sheepsfoot on the far right I've sold the most of.
A grand total of four. ;)

There are also quite a few knives that I don't have pictures of that have since departed the shop.


I've made more of the little three finger -'merican "tantos" (dead center in the picture) than anything else (because they are so fast to make) but I've given most of them away. The one pictured was the first one I made and got volunteered for my first electro-etching experiment.

Sam Cade
May 25, 2014, 03:14 PM
Speaking of testing:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198839&stc=1&d=1401041664

9mmforMe
May 25, 2014, 03:16 PM
Very impressive, Sam.

You, Sir, are very skilled.

JShirley
May 25, 2014, 04:09 PM
Thank you, Sam. "Big Green #2" needs a larger version on a 18" or so handle.

Sam Cade
May 25, 2014, 04:23 PM
You, Sir, are very skilled.

Thanks. I'd consider myself an advanced learner. By the 10,000 hour rule I should be getting good sometime around 2025. :evil:

My initial training was in industrial quality control, so I've got a good handle on production processes and have been wrenching and pounding on farm machinery my whole life so hand tools don't have much mystery. That isn't a terrible foundation to learn to build knives with. Not as good as being a trained machinist or such, but not bad.

Deltaboy
May 25, 2014, 09:22 PM
Nice work Sam.

Sam Cade
May 25, 2014, 09:48 PM
Finishing this up tonight.
.13" 15n20.

OAL of just under 6" with 2.5" of cutting edge.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198842&stc=1&d=1401064685

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198843&stc=1&d=1401064688

Ground nice and thin.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198845&stc=1&d=1401064965


Feels good.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198844&stc=1&d=1401064965

bikerdoc
May 25, 2014, 10:00 PM
I am in awe of your skills.

JShirley
May 26, 2014, 09:48 AM
Looks like a good little user.

RussellC
May 26, 2014, 12:19 PM
You Da knife man....speechless. Outstanding work!

Russellc

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 06:36 PM
Ok folks, this is how I do it.


First thing I do is trace out my pattern onto my blade stock and cut the length from the bar.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198912&stc=1&d=1401139412

I'm mostly interested in the shape of the tang, the blade shape is just a suggestion.

I notch and rough cut the profile with an angle grinder and a fiberglass cutting wheel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198914&stc=1&d=1401139990

Since I don't want to breath fiberglass, light myself on fire or maim myself, this entails a full safety panoply.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198913&stc=1&d=1401139412

After the rough profile I clean it up closer with the grinder.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198915&stc=1&d=1401140111

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 06:42 PM
I clean up the north end of the tang with a sanding drum chucked into a drill.

A more upscale knife maker would use a small contact wheel on a belt grinder for this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198916&stc=1&d=1401140437

Cleaned up and with the tang final shaped.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198917&stc=1&d=1401140441

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 06:48 PM
Next we drill all of our holes.

3/16" for our 2 pins and the hole that will become our choil.

Chamfered 1/4" holes to lighten the tang.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198918&stc=1&d=1401140818

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 07:07 PM
After notching out out the choil it is time to head to the grinder.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198919&stc=1&d=1401141327

The ice bucket keeps me from burning my fingers. ;)


I'm grinding on a 2x42 craftsman mounted on a table.

It is small enough to carry outside on nice days.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198920&stc=1&d=1401141327

The little Craftsman only has a 1/3 HP motor (older ones were 1/2 HP) and runs redorkulus fast so it isn't perfect for knife grinding but does get the job done.
The stock platen is pretty miserable. It isn't true and is made of thin mild steel.

I stuck a 2" ceramic tile onto mine and it works beautifully...boy is it ugly though. :cool:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198921&stc=1&d=1401141973

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198922&stc=1&d=1401141973

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 07:13 PM
I grind edge down and judge the height of my grind by the space between the belt and the spine.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198923&stc=1&d=1401142297

Note the index mark on the spine.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198924&stc=1&d=1401142297


Duckface selfie. :D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198925&stc=1&d=1401142404

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 07:23 PM
Ground to 36 grit.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198926&stc=1&d=1401142638

Bit of wobble in the grind line there. *sigh* That is what I get for rushing.

Finished up and ready for heat treat.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198927&stc=1&d=1401142638

I rather enjoy this part. :cool:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198928&stc=1&d=1401142853


Yeee-haaa! :D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198929&stc=1&d=1401142966

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 07:29 PM
It would probably cut butter at this point. :evil:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198932&stc=1&d=1401143093

Heat treatment is:

1.Normalize.
2.Normalize.
3.Normalize.

4. Heat to a bit past critical

5.Quench in warm canola oil.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198933&stc=1&d=1401143093

6. And temper twice at 410 F.


...and we will pick this back up at around 8 PM tonight once the final cycle ends.

Shanghai McCoy
May 26, 2014, 08:59 PM
To put it in the vernacular of my 13 year old daughter...;)
"That Is Awesome."
Thanks Sam.

JShirley
May 26, 2014, 10:22 PM
Thank you, Sam. I really appreciated seeing the whole process.

Sam Cade
May 26, 2014, 11:18 PM
We will slap some scales on this thing tomorrow.

Till then, I give you redneck Tsukamaki. :D


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198938&stc=1&d=1401156998

hso
May 26, 2014, 11:59 PM
Wait, you're blanking using an angle grinder instead of a band saw?!?!?! WOW that's a lot of work.

Look for a porta band at pawn shops for cheap. A slightly modified porta band clamped in a bench vice would make blanking much easier.

Sam Cade
May 27, 2014, 12:05 AM
A cheap band saw would be "better" and can be had at pawn shops for not that much. Heck, a slightly modified porta band can be had for even less.

Band saws I have. Including a big old GIL-BILT. Angle grinder is:
A. Faster
B. More Fun. Sparks!


:evil:

Sam Cade
May 27, 2014, 06:59 PM
So...

Scales.

I roughly mark out the size of the tang on my scale material with plenty of meat all around.

I'm working from a big sheet of G10 here so I just chop it out with a cordless skillsaw and a thin blade.
Chop-Chop.

Scale.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198953&stc=1&d=1401227785

After cutting out both my scales I head to a drill press and locate and punch my first pin hole.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198954&stc=1&d=1401227785

Sam Cade
May 27, 2014, 07:09 PM
Pins are going to be 3/16" brass rod.

I cut the pins oversize and knock off the shoulders since we are going to have them in and out of our scales several times.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198956&stc=1&d=1401228076

After drilling the first hole, stick a pin in it and drill the hole on the other end of the tang.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198957&stc=1&d=1401228076

If you have more than two pins this keeps runout from messing up your hole spacing.

Once we have the holes drilled, I trace around the tang with a Sharpie and color out all of the negative space.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198959&stc=1&d=1401228430
With a 36-40 grit belt it only takes a couple minutes to grind away everything that isn't a scale.
Even for complicated shapes grinding out scales like this is faster than cutting them with a bandsaw and gets the scale closer to the finished state.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198960&stc=1&d=1401228430

Sam Cade
May 27, 2014, 07:24 PM
After pinning on the scales, I use a sanding drum and a 220 grit belt on the grinder to flush the scales to the tang perfectly. Finer grits is better so you won't be as likely to accidentally reshape your tang.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198961&stc=1&d=1401228723

Pulling the scales back off and pinning them together I cut in the contour with a 36 grit belt and finish the north end of the scales since I won't be able to get to it once the scales are epoxied on.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198962&stc=1&d=1401228723


Time to glue this thing!

I prep the scales by drilling shallow divots and scuffing the bejesus out of them.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198963&stc=1&d=1401229308


The tang gets scrubbed, and filed. The blade is taped and everything is wiped down with acetone.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198964&d=1401229303

Sam Cade
May 27, 2014, 07:31 PM
Epoxy epoxy.

Huge mess.

I hate this part. :banghead:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198965&stc=1&d=1401229545

Some hours later the epoxy is set and I can grind and sand the scales into a pleasing and ergonomic shape. :cool:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198966&stc=1&d=1401229683
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198967&stc=1&d=1401229838

Now all we have to do is do a bit of finish work and sharpen.

Deltaboy
May 28, 2014, 09:41 PM
Good work Sam.

9mmforMe
May 29, 2014, 12:44 AM
Great Job, Sam! Vondabah!!!

bikerdoc
May 29, 2014, 09:46 AM
Couple craftsmanship with genius and you get Sam C! :)

Sam Cade
May 29, 2014, 11:45 AM
Couple craftsmanship with genius and you get Sam C! :)

You are too kind by half. Maybe double. :p



I got up about midnight last night and ground this tanto-ish thing. It might be more accurate to call it a reverse clipped Wharncliffe. I dunno, anyway I couldn't get to sleep till I had it ground:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199021&stc=1&d=1401374317

I've been looking at it all morning and I can't tell if it is a good idea or not. :uhoh:

JShirley
May 29, 2014, 12:51 PM
Santoku.

Sam Cade
May 29, 2014, 01:04 PM
Santoku.

"Tactical" Santoku. :evil:

Tak-Toku.

Shanghai McCoy
May 29, 2014, 04:08 PM
Tak-Toku... :cool:
I'll be looking forward to seeing the finished version of that bad boy.
BTW, what's your epoxy preferance there? I usually get by with the standard Devcon 2 ton but I'm always open to suggestions.

Sam Cade
May 29, 2014, 04:24 PM
Tak-Toku... :cool:
I'll be looking forward to seeing the finished version of that bad boy.
.

That is a tester, left at 80 grit. So it is pretty durn ugly. I've been throwing it on and off all day. So far, so good. ;)



BTW, what's your epoxy preferance there? I usually get by with the standard Devcon 2 ton but I'm always open to suggestions.

I don't give it much thought really, other than to make sure that it is a clear waterproof epoxy. You can even get away with the white marine epoxy if you don't mind the white seam.
Epoxy is much, much cheaper when you don't purchase the little squeeze syringes. Bigger is better.
The goop in the pics is slow-cure stuff intended for RC model construction

blarby
May 29, 2014, 05:40 PM
Does have a nice Santoku to it :D

Sam Cade
May 29, 2014, 05:50 PM
Samtoku? ;)

Sam Cade
May 29, 2014, 06:26 PM
Getting ready to heat treat this very sensible knife.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199034&stc=1&d=1401398724

Coyote3855
May 29, 2014, 06:27 PM
Thank you very much for sharing this. Amazing skill, nice work.

Sam Cade
May 29, 2014, 07:18 PM
I work in total darkness to better gauge the temperature of the steel. That makes good photography difficult.
;)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199036&stc=1&d=1401401630

I have got to weld some longer jaws on the vise-grips I'm using as tongs. :fire:


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199037&stc=1&d=1401401630

...and then a quick clean up and into the oven for the first tempering cycle.

Sam Cade
May 29, 2014, 07:20 PM
Amazing skill, nice work.


Thanks! I appreciate the compliment.


I learn something new about making knives every day. Sometimes I learn that what I thought I knew was wrong. :evil:


Such is life.

WestKentucky
May 29, 2014, 11:32 PM
Neat setup. I was expecting a much more...advanced? Setup. I'm beyond amazed that you do this kind of work with pretty standard tools. It looks like your furnace is simply refractory brick stacked up with a heat source. What might that heat source be or am I missing something obvious.

Sam Cade
May 30, 2014, 12:37 AM
It looks like your furnace is simply refractory brick stacked up with a heat source.


Yep. There is a bit of a trick in the way they are stacked but otherwise, it is just a pile of bricks sitting on some cinderblocks.



What might that heat source be or am I missing something obvious.


It is a weedburner torch from harbor freight. Twenty bucks. ;)http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html

Hey, if it is good enough for Tai Goo it is good enough for me. :D

Shanghai McCoy
May 30, 2014, 08:36 AM
Thanks for the epoxy info Sam. Bet that tester/tac-toku makes a good "thunk" when you throw it into the target.

tiamat
May 30, 2014, 04:53 PM
As others have already said, thank you much for sharing your process. What I find most pleasing is the simplicity of it - no uber-specialty tools.

Sam Cade
May 31, 2014, 04:38 PM
Wasting a bit of time today.

We have a professional lawn service in the family so we have piles of worn out mower blades lying around.

These are from a big beastly eXmark and are pretty well kaput.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199084&stc=1&d=1401563587


Judging by the sparks the blade is some sort of high carbon steel and is probably suitable for cutlery use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing

Using a chop saw I lop off the flat sections of blade. This gives me two 6" lengths of 5/32" thick steel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199085&stc=1&d=1401563587

Yes, hso, I could have forged it flat but it is HOT out there today. ;)

Giving one of the sections an experimental poke with a fresh bit in the drill press lets me know that the blades are indeed hardened. Too hard to drill is too hard to grind without undue investment of effort.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199086&stc=1&d=1401564148

We are going to anneal this by heating it up past critical and letting it cool slowly.
Slooooowwwwwllllly. ;)

So into the forge we go. I bring it up past critical, soak it for 10 min for good measure, then simply brick up the forge and let it rest for a few hours.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199087&stc=1&d=1401564970

Sam Cade
May 31, 2014, 04:40 PM
Whoops.

So much for that bucket.
:o

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199088&stc=1&d=1401565216

50 Shooter
May 31, 2014, 08:34 PM
Sam,
Have you ever made any knives out of leaf springs? Is the steel any good? Seeing how you could go to a junk yard and get a lifetime supply in one shot...

hso
May 31, 2014, 08:42 PM
Forges aren't terribly difficult to make thanks to all the ABANA and ABS folks publishing plans and examples.

Still, you get much better control and efficiency with the more advanced forges, but you can do a lot with a properly laid out "pile" of refractory brick and a good burner setup.

Lots of smiths are selling "coffee can" forges out there that aren't much more advanced.

Leaf spring "billets" are good if you know you're getting them from a quality source. I have a pile of 1960s coal truck springs that have proven to be pretty consistently good for blades (donated to the ABS for the Youth Hammer-In program).

Sam, do you have a pile of vermiculite you can use for a slow cool-down?

Sam Cade
May 31, 2014, 09:05 PM
Sam, do you have a pile of vermiculite you can use for a slow cool-down?

I do, about half a bag left over from landscaping, but I figure that just closing off the forge would be slower.
It has been around seven hours and the bricks on top are still too hot to touch...hrmph. I'm getting impatient. ;)

Sam Cade
May 31, 2014, 09:17 PM
...and success. It is dead soft.

Now for the least dramatic picture ever posted on THR:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199095&stc=1&d=1401581820

hso
May 31, 2014, 09:21 PM
Remember that you can burn carbon out of the steel if you leave it to soak at those temps too long.

Sam Cade
May 31, 2014, 09:29 PM
Have you ever made any knives out of leaf springs?

Not yet.I've owned a bunch though. I'm not hardly doing any forging as yet. I'm focusing on getting the grinding and finishing end of things nailed down at the moment.


Is the steel any good?

A resounding probably. ;)


Seeing how you could go to a junk yard and get a lifetime supply in one shot...
The downsides are of course that all steel isn't created equal and there is going to be a labor investment in the steel just getting it ready for use.

Good clean, annealed, consistent, virgin steel is cheap and gets cheaper when purchased in quantity.

Brin
May 31, 2014, 09:32 PM
hso, a 5 gallon steel bucket filled with wood ash works great for a slow cool down to anneal steel.

Sam Cade
May 31, 2014, 09:35 PM
Remember that you can burn carbon out of the steel if you leave it to soak at those temps too long.

I had that concern, but I figure that it would drop out of the molecular boogie woogie end of the curve fast enough that it probably wouldn't matter. You wouldn't happen to have a thermocouple in your pocket would ya? :neener:

The spark doesn't seem to have changed. I guess we will find out when we try to harden it.

Sam Cade
May 31, 2014, 10:02 PM
I figure we should do a simple 3 and a half finger EDC knife, since we are working with an unknown material and don't want to introduce any unnecessary variables.

Something like this, OAL of 6.25" roughly:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199097&stc=1&d=1401584518

hso
May 31, 2014, 11:51 PM
thermocouple in your pocket

I'm wounded you had to ask! ;)

Actually, I gave a non-contact IR device to a knifemaker not too long ago and it improved reproducibility significantly for forging.

ugaarguy
June 1, 2014, 01:06 AM
non-contact IR device
Would that be a "Laser Thermometer" in layman's terminology?

Brin
June 1, 2014, 11:32 AM
Sam, for a guy with just the basic knife making tools, you have managed to make a lot of knives, The best way to improve your flat grinding technique is to put a tool rest on your belt sander and make your self a flat grinding jig.

Sam Cade
June 1, 2014, 12:01 PM
I've built a couple small sled jigs but I don't bother with it most of the time since I don't feel like I'm developing any skill by sliding it around.
..and they aren't any fun to use. ;)

hso
June 1, 2014, 12:41 PM
Re: Laser Thermometer

Yes, but the high temp variety instead of the "what's the temp of my steak or engine block" sorts. I stay on the lookout for old engineering/lab equipment that can be gotten inexpensively and that might be useful in forging (up to 2,500 F), but the prices on these thermometers have dropped to the point that finding the old clunky gear isn't worth it at time when you can luck into one of these for around $100 rated up to 2,900 F. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HT-6889-Non-Contact-High-Temperature-Laser-Gun-Infrared-Thermometer-58-2912-/310873838407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4861865347

Sam Cade
June 1, 2014, 05:11 PM
Lawnmower blade mystery steel knife ground and profiled.
Went with a thicker, more idiot resistant grind than I normally do. Also, no hand finishing on this one. Just chased the flats with a palm sander. Or rather, locked the palm sander in a vise and rubbed the flats on the business end for a couple minutes.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199126&stc=1&d=1401653161


Left-over serial number. Kinda cool. :cool:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199127&stc=1&d=1401653166


Heat treat looks like it was at least a limited success, the blade got harder than woodpecker lips from a warm canola quench.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199128&stc=1&d=1401653418

50 Shooter
June 5, 2014, 08:18 AM
Uuuhm Sam... We're waiting for the next installment sir!!!

Now that you have your own little thread don't you know you're supposed to keep us up to date? Tic tock tic tock, its not like we have all day here...

Sam Cade
June 5, 2014, 02:05 PM
No worries. I've been moving some shop stuff around and working on a rebuild on an aluminum decked pontoon boat.
Also invaded Poland, thanks to BullfrogKen. :cool:


https://www.paradoxplaza.com/hearts-of-iron-iii-collection

I'm fixing to wander out to the shop and make some sparks here in a few.

Deltaboy
June 5, 2014, 11:23 PM
Keep up the Good work.

Dr.Rob
June 6, 2014, 06:42 AM
Great to see the process

Sam Cade
June 6, 2014, 09:12 PM
Have I ever told you folks how much I hate, hate hand sanding the belt scratches out of a blade?

It is boring and takes forever, by far the most time consuming part of the process.

So I've decided to never do it again...or at least to do it as little as possible.

;)

Behold!

http://mdm.boschwebservices.com/files/r21939v42.jpg

The SKIL 1/4 sheet vibratory palm sander with vacuum filter dohickey.

Less that $30 at your preferred big box store or $10 at the local pawnshop.

...and here it is clamped upside down in a vise ready to work on sanding out some knives.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199336&stc=1&d=1402099387

Just rub the flats on the paper while the machine runs. Easy Peasy. It would be difficult to mess this up.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199337&stc=1&d=1402099638

A couple minutes with a 120 grit square of sandpaper takes an 80 grit belt finished blade to this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199339&stc=1&d=1402099787

..and to 320 grit:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199338&stc=1&d=1402099787

Sam Cade
June 6, 2014, 09:19 PM
The machine will utterly wear out a 1/4" piece of sandpaper in just a couple minutes. Once worn out I just move up to the next grit.

In less than 15 minutes I went from nasty belt finish to this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199340&stc=1&d=1402100202

I'd say that is more than adequate for a working knife. It would be easy to move up to a true mirror finish from here if a person was so inclined.





Dig the tailhook on this little guy. ;)
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199341&stc=1&d=1402100202

Deltaboy
June 8, 2014, 08:40 PM
The machine will utterly wear out a 1/4" piece of sandpaper in just a couple minutes. Once worn out I just move up to the next grit.

In less than 15 minutes I went from nasty belt finish to this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199340&stc=1&d=1402100202

I'd say that is more than adequate for a working knife. It would be easy to move up to a true mirror finish from here if a person was so inclined.





Dig the tailhook on this little guy. ;)
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199341&stc=1&d=1402100202
Sweet. I really admire your blade work.

Sam Cade
June 8, 2014, 09:40 PM
Quick and ugly drop point tanto fighter made from a file.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199418&stc=1&d=1402274229


Didn't bother with any finish work since I've been using it as a thrower.

JShirley
June 9, 2014, 10:21 AM
While I object on general principle to "American tantos", that ain't bad.

Sam Cade
June 9, 2014, 10:27 AM
Gotta do something different every so often y'know.;)

Sam Cade
June 9, 2014, 04:40 PM
Getting the 'merican tantos out of my system. ;)

Ground this out from a section of annealed sawmill blade this morning.

Approx. 1/8" thick.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199443&stc=1&d=1402342695


Getting ready to do heat treat on it . I don't know what the steel is so I'm going to give it a soak before getting down to business.

JShirley
June 9, 2014, 05:50 PM
Darn it. If you just had a belly instead of that abrupt transition, I'd love it.

Sam Cade
June 9, 2014, 05:55 PM
There is always tomorrow. ;)


Or maybe later tonight, depending on how my cake turns out.

JShirley
June 9, 2014, 06:24 PM
:)

To give appropriate credit, continued thanks for sharing your work.

Shanghai McCoy
June 9, 2014, 06:47 PM
I like both versions of those American tantos Sam. (If I want to see some belly I'll just look down..:o)
And I appreciate you showing us your work. Thanks.

Double_J
June 9, 2014, 08:16 PM
Darn you for making me want to build/buy a custom knife. I have to buy too many other things first, now I have the desire to get a small "work knife" and an american tanto. I have wanted the tanto for a number of years but never scratched the itch due to not finding the right one. Keep up the good work, and thanks for showing your methods/techniques.

blarby
June 9, 2014, 08:25 PM
You know, you ever need somewhere to put one of those american tantos.... you lemme know....

That sawmill blade one looks fabulous.


See, John and I are different, I like that abrupt transition.


I didn't know you could use sawblades for that. I got a buddy works at a mill, they blow head rig blades every day- I'll see if I can get some scraps.

Sam Cade
June 9, 2014, 08:36 PM
I didn't know you could use sawblades for that.
Yup. Most of the steels used for the blades on big industrial saws are great cutlery steels, with the caveat that they have to be annealed before use and you might not know exactly what you have.

Sam Cade
June 9, 2014, 08:47 PM
Sibling knife to the small 'merican tanto, profiled out. Same steel.

I'll go grind it out after supper.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199458&stc=1&d=1402357612

JShirley
June 9, 2014, 08:59 PM
Ooh!


Yes. Incidentally, Larry "might" trade good lead bullets for knives...

blarby
June 9, 2014, 09:18 PM
And if its in something i'm working on right now, you might be able to get away with powdercoated ones :D

Just happens to be casting season, you know:eek:

hso
June 9, 2014, 09:19 PM
Good to see someone using the upside down sander trick. It is a big improvement over hand sanding and is much safer/cheaper than using belts (and far more portable).

If you mod it down to metal, epoxy a piece of float glass on it, and then use spray adhesive to stick grinder belt pieces on it you'll be amazed at the performance and you can get a wide range of grits/material for abrasive to play with that aren't available for the sander itself.

Like John I'm not a fan of "broken" tantos, but I do like your Tailhook knife! Very practical.

Sam Cade
June 9, 2014, 09:38 PM
Thanks Mike!


Now it is back to the shop for me! :cool:

9mmforMe
June 9, 2014, 11:14 PM
I chimed in earlier and have been following along...great thread and great work Sam. That file tanto sure looks good.

Geoffry

Sam Cade
June 9, 2014, 11:28 PM
...and ground, quenched and ready for the first tempering cycle.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199473&stc=1&d=1402367253



I've got half a dozen knives to put scales on and/or sharpen tomorrow. I don't enjoy that nearly so much.

Deltaboy
June 10, 2014, 11:34 AM
Wonderful work Sam.

JShirley
June 10, 2014, 12:02 PM
Sam,

I want that knife. :D

Sam Cade
June 10, 2014, 12:56 PM
I want that knife. :D

You want a similar knife with a slightly higher grind. ;)

In my mind I was envisioning a sort of pocket fighter/kwiken with a western scaled tang. I was aiming for a robust grind but may have overdone it a bit and ended up with something that is a bit obtuse for anything other than shanking malcontents.

I like the high ratio of blade to tang, it is definitely more teeth than tail.
I like the overall profile...but that grind just isn't working.

JShirley
June 10, 2014, 03:29 PM
Saber grind is fine, bro.

I like strong knives.

hso
June 10, 2014, 03:43 PM
I see Sam's "point" and agree. Grind just looks off to me, but there's only one way to find out and that's to put it to the test.

Sam Cade
June 10, 2014, 04:12 PM
So, some vegetable mashing lets me know that for general utility grind needs no move back to about the midpoint of the blade. Still would be a saber grind, just one a bit higher.


Hey Mike,
I'm at 81% of skill mastery. ;)

hso
June 10, 2014, 04:35 PM
Only 79% more effort to go, then.:cool:

Heck, got me "beat". If it ain't glowing red and I can't hit it with a hammer I can't do much more than grind away everything but the mysterious hidden lumpy spoon shape!

Sam Cade
June 10, 2014, 05:10 PM
If you give me a roaring forge and a hammer to swing I can make round things flat, flat things flatter and straight things crooked. :evil:


Once the torrential downpour stops I'll post a picture of my $2 Hi-Rail anvil that has better rebound than my 300 lb Fisher.

Sam Cade
June 10, 2014, 05:34 PM
Check this out:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199487&stc=1&d=1402432365


It was mounted to the Hi-Rail via the lower ball.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199488&stc=1&d=1402432365


Weird eh?

Hometeached1
June 10, 2014, 06:24 PM
Nice work Sam. The LEGO clone trooper was funny surprise. :) post 75.

Sam Cade
June 10, 2014, 06:36 PM
funny surprise.

If you liked that... post #12. ;)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=723023&highlight=lightsaber

hso
June 10, 2014, 07:31 PM
If you put that piece of rail on a heavier/sturdier base you'll get better energy transfer. Mine goes on a red oak trunk section.

You could build the base out of treated lumber glued and screwed together for a better anvil stand like this guy.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o202/maco_man/IMG_0206.jpg

Hometeached1
June 10, 2014, 07:52 PM
If you liked that... post #12. ;)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=723023&highlight=lightsaber
Liked your comment in post 14.

I would love a lighthatchet, think of how useful that would be around the camp site. :D

Looks like you have LOTS of fun.

Sam Cade
June 10, 2014, 08:18 PM
a heavier/sturdier base you'll get better energy transfer. Build the base out of treated lumber glued and screwed together for an anvil stand.

I'll probably drop in on a log and leave it outside and save a good anvil from getting beat on by the weather.

Those bars that it is sitting on are 1" diameter steel. I sparked them and I think they are high carbon. I wonder if they are cut down torsion bars from some piece of railway gear?

Sam Cade
June 10, 2014, 08:20 PM
Looks like you have LOTS of fun.

Never a dull moment.


http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot

Sam Cade
June 11, 2014, 12:30 AM
Yesterday's wee bellied 'merican tanto.
Now with 100% more scales.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199502&stc=1&d=1402457396

Sam Cade
June 11, 2014, 11:07 PM
The results of this evenings labors:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199521&stc=1&d=1402538587

5/32" 1084 from Aldo, approx 4.5" blade length and an OAL of 9".
Grind is asymmetrical, right handed full flat.

Time got away from me so I'll have to heat treat it tomorrow.

Deltaboy
June 12, 2014, 11:22 AM
The results of this evenings labors:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199521&stc=1&d=1402538587

5/32" 1084 from Aldo, approx 4.5" blade length and an OAL of 9".
Grind is asymmetrical, right handed full flat.

Time got away from me so I'll have to heat treat it tomorrow.
I like that Warfinn style blade.

blarby
June 13, 2014, 10:40 PM
Cant wait to get my hands on one of these.

*hammers* out the details with Sam !

Deltaboy
June 13, 2014, 11:29 PM
Cant wait to get my hands on one of these.

*hammers* out the details with Sam !
Same here that last on Sam made with that Waffin Blade is slick.

blarby
June 14, 2014, 12:09 AM
I just got the rough outline of my chosen design on steel, and I think I just had a knifegasm.

The Mrs. Is commissioning one as well.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 02:30 AM
Knife design is hard for me.

Easy for JShirley apparently. :cool:

These patterns are 95% JShirley designs with only a couple very minor tweaks from me.

I spend days thinking about stuff like this.

John just draws a knife.

I'm excited to grind these!


Expect some gonzo jimping. :D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199591&stc=1&d=1402809315

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199592&stc=1&d=1402809315

With the brilliant Alan Folts designed, FOLTS minimalist by CRKT.



http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199593&stc=1&d=1402809458

JShirley
June 15, 2014, 09:07 AM
In fairness, I'm a horrible artist. It's a credit to him that Sam understood what I *meant* to draw.

SuperNaut
June 15, 2014, 11:20 AM
That is cool looking! But IMHO the notch in the butt would drive me nuts in actual usage. If you had the scales in that shape and then the tang extended beyond the scales to become a rounded lanyard ring, that would be useful and comfortable.

Like this:

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10411808_10202239901740314_4953183054161629458_n.jpg

JShirley
June 15, 2014, 11:24 AM
Yep.

Like I said, I'm a horrible artist. The knife on the right looks almost exactly right (drew it with a certain forum member in mind- not my style, so to speak)- except for the pommel. Good eye.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 11:45 AM
That isn't a notch, those are twin skullz chrushorz spikez. ;)

Actually, what happened was when I drew the pattern, I blew it up by about 10-15% and made the tang disproportional in length.
When I chopped it off the cut went through the lanyard hole. :o

I chopped the second pattern down even further I shaped it the same way for aesthetic consistency.

SuperNaut
June 15, 2014, 11:48 AM
That isn't a notch, those are twin skullz chrushorz spikez. ;)

In that case, hosom spikez brah! ;)

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 12:02 PM
JShirley asked me what I was going to call the knife construction apparatus.

The obvious answer is:

Death Skull Fornicating Tactical Murder Blades for Elite Operators:
Xtreme knivez for Xtreme dooodz.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 12:03 PM
Like this:


I like it.

It is also marginally less work.

SuperNaut
June 15, 2014, 12:14 PM
JShirley asked me what I was going to call the knife construction apparatus.

The obvious answer is:

Death Skull Fornicating Tactical Murder Blades for Elite Operators:
Xtreme knivez for Xtreme dooodz.
LOL!

You know, for kids!

http://movieboozer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/You-know…-for-kids.jpg

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 12:49 PM
:evil:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199597&stc=1&d=1402847360

SuperNaut
June 15, 2014, 02:17 PM
And a knife meme is born. ;)

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 04:25 PM
I hope so.

The line that Mr.Robbins is delivering at the moment is:

"Would an Imbecile make THIS?"

JShirley
June 15, 2014, 04:54 PM
The shape is mostly correct, but the lanyard hole should be smaller and not at the outside edge.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 04:55 PM
Drop-pointed, bullnosed, tailhooked,sorta-tanto roughed out.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199611&stc=1&d=1402862033

JShirley
June 15, 2014, 04:59 PM
Good god, that's ugly.

Good handle shape, though. Tailhook may be slightly too prominent.

jerkface11
June 15, 2014, 05:04 PM
I see it with black metal and bright red handle scales.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 05:20 PM
Good god, that's ugly.


It is so ugly that it transcends ugliness and comes back around the arc of space time and redefines our perceptions of truth and beauty in such a matter that the knife ain't bad lookin'.


Good handle shape, though. Tailhook may be slightly too prominent.

Spec was for maximum grip security. Ergo: aggressively textured scales, jimping and mondo-tailhook.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 07:41 PM
I see it with black metal and bright red handle scales.


It is getting Blue/Black layered G10.

http://usaknifemaker.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/black-_-blue-2x2.jpg

chameleonbear
June 15, 2014, 08:01 PM
Good taste! That is the same stuff I'm using for my knife that I'm making. Granted I'm sure it won't turn out as nice as yours but I've never made one before... and I'm using a hacksaw and files.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 08:27 PM
Granted I'm sure it won't turn out as nice as yours but I've never made one before...

All it takes is practice.

Decent music on the sound system helps too. ;)


and I'm using a hacksaw and files.

You can do it! I believe in you.
Until recently, Aron Gough was hand filing all of his knives.
http://goughcustom.com/


Good Taste!


Don't look at me. I was agitating for wacky colors but got outvoted.

Sam Cade
June 15, 2014, 10:33 PM
Ozment Mk.II ready for heat treatment.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199675&stc=1&d=1402882352

blarby
June 16, 2014, 01:12 AM
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Glocks are butt ugly, but the form serves a very specific function.

This is no different.

Great work , Sam.

JShirley
June 16, 2014, 10:21 AM
I drew that li'l "American tanto" with your wife in mind.

Sam Cade
June 16, 2014, 01:10 PM
Taillhooked utility wharncliffe in 1084,deep etch finish, Burlap and resin scales.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199695&stc=1&d=1402934825

Took some of the usual swell out of the grip on this one. It was not an improvement.



Burlap/Resin fauxcarta sheet.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199697&stc=1&d=1402934901

Deltaboy
June 16, 2014, 01:21 PM
Sam I love that Wariffin blade knife.

Shanghai McCoy
June 16, 2014, 04:02 PM
The whole knife looks cool but I am diggin' the burlap fauxcarta scales.:D

Sam Cade
June 16, 2014, 04:10 PM
The burlap has a odd feel to it. It is more abrasive than canvas micarta or G10 at low grits. Oh, and the dust is super itchy. :cuss:
Shadetree Phenolics makes burlap blocks with West Systems Epoxy (instead of the 3M resin that I use) that are popular with some knife makers but I've never seen any in person to know if they finish out smoother.

hso
June 16, 2014, 04:10 PM
Good god, that's ugly.
Giant mustache knife!

Just go ahead and make a D-guard! You know you wanna.

Sam Cade
June 16, 2014, 04:12 PM
Giant mustache knife!

Ermagherd.

:D
Give me a second I have to take a picture.

Sam Cade
June 16, 2014, 04:34 PM
I give you...

THE KNIFESTACHE


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199705&stc=1&d=1402947281






Only for the manliest of men. ;)

Deltaboy
June 16, 2014, 05:41 PM
I give you...

THE KNIFESTACHE


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199705&stc=1&d=1402947281






Only for the manliest of men. ;)
Very nice Sam. Nothing like a steel mustache.

Double_J
June 16, 2014, 06:41 PM
The "knifestache" gave both my girlfriend and I a good laugh. Well done sir, well done.

P.S. the knife looks good too.

hso
June 16, 2014, 06:49 PM
The steel 'stash! You'll need that angle grinder for a trim.

bikerdoc
June 16, 2014, 07:43 PM
The wharncliffe for the win! Fantastic design and I bet you sell a bunch!

blarby
June 16, 2014, 07:49 PM
Soiled.....

He's kissin it !

Sam Cade
June 17, 2014, 12:57 PM
The wharncliffe for the win! Fantastic design and I bet you sell a bunch!

The Amish seem to dig it. ;)

Seriously though, folks seem to like that particular configuration (more than what I would expect) and buy them locally about fast as I can make them. Five in the last couple weeks.



I should probably start marking my knives.

hso
June 17, 2014, 04:50 PM
Yep

Use the steel 'stash logo

Sam Cade
June 17, 2014, 04:59 PM
That would be an easy resist to cut for etching.

hso
June 17, 2014, 05:18 PM
Yep

'stash with a Cheshire Cat grin

Sam Cade
June 17, 2014, 07:02 PM
First try with the JShirley EDC tanto thang.

It feels great in 1/8" stock, the thinnest I had.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199742&stc=1&d=1403042524

Sam Cade
June 17, 2014, 07:04 PM
Daily Kwaiken?

SuperNaut
June 17, 2014, 10:25 PM
First try with the JShirley EDC tanto thang.

It feels great in 1/8" stock, the thinnest I had.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199742&stc=1&d=1403042524
Add black canvas scales and I'll take it!

Sam Cade
June 17, 2014, 10:35 PM
Add black canvas scales and I'll take it!

We don't do sales in open forum, so I'll PM you with info on a similar piece.

Sam Cade
June 17, 2014, 10:58 PM
Since folks are asking, this is what the little tanto guy looks like ground out and drilled:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199750&stc=1&d=1403056585

...and a tiny bit of coarse jimping in the thumb recess.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199751&stc=1&d=1403056585

Jeremiah10:23
June 18, 2014, 10:43 AM
Rookie question here, I understand 2 of the holes are for pins but what are the others for? Weight reduction, adhesive improvement, both?

JShirley
June 18, 2014, 10:49 AM
Bottom hole is for a lanyard. In this case, we'll say the top hole is also another lanyard option. Its common to drill multiple holes for weight reduction.

John

Jeremiah10:23
June 18, 2014, 11:08 AM
After having read through this thread it gives me a strong desire try my hand at it. I see a gathering of equipment and many sparks as a possibility in my future.

I have been looking for a new sheath knife and have not found what want so why not try to make one.

JShirley
June 18, 2014, 12:04 PM
Let me know if you'd like a knife shape. :)

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 12:19 PM
Weight reduction, adhesive improvement, both?

Both. The ones without a chamfer are the pin holes. The hole in the guard is to get that last little bit of weight reduction and to give a bit of retention when I mold the sheath.

Also, style. ;)

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 02:49 PM
Going in for heat treat right now:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199758&stc=1&d=1403113611

JShirley
June 18, 2014, 03:09 PM
Ooh. Yes.

What steel?

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 03:47 PM
Ooh. Yes.

What steel?

.13" 15n20. ;)

I've also got some .095" and I think a short piece of .072" left.

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 04:05 PM
..you know you are making a big knife with the fall-off is 10.5" long and 1.5" wide.
:eek:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199759&stc=1&d=1403118286

Shanghai McCoy
June 18, 2014, 05:27 PM
Sam,
At the risk of sounding like Lt. Columbo , where'd you get those shoes..?

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 05:40 PM
They are Palladium "Pampa" boots.

http://www.amazon.com/Palladium-Mens-Pampa-Hi-Boot/dp/B003ZYDLKY


Commercial version of the canvas desert boot that the French used to use and the IDF still does.

Fit is similar to Converse Chucks, but with a lugged shankless sole.

Shanghai McCoy
June 18, 2014, 05:56 PM
Thanks Sam.

hso
June 18, 2014, 06:40 PM
What's your edge thickness when you heat treat?

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 06:57 PM
I usually don't mic it and just use the Mk.1 calibrated eyeball.

Usually about half the thickness of a dime.

Smidge thicker at the tip to guard against overheating.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199761&stc=1&d=1403128527

I can get away with a bit thinner but it stresses me out.

hso
June 18, 2014, 07:24 PM
I was taught to go with the thickness of a quarter.
A dime is too thin and invites edge warping and a nickel is too thick leaving too much material to hog off on the grinder. Learned my lesson when I forged a 7" blade to just below a dime thickness and the thing developed a distinct wave at the edge that had to be cold forged out with a "flatter".

kieranklein
June 18, 2014, 08:13 PM
I go to .030-.040 before heat treat, so far no problems.

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 08:19 PM
Getting the calipers out and measuring a bunch of knives it looks like I'm around .03". A dime is .053". Pretty close to the rule of thumb (half the thickness of a dime) that I was told.

As an interesting data point, Peters Heat Treat recommends an minimum edge thickness of .015". :eek:

kieranklein
June 18, 2014, 08:30 PM
I believe you can get away with that thin if your heat treating stainless.

Sam Cade
June 18, 2014, 08:49 PM
A slower quench-curve would probably let you get away with thinner edges.

On that note, I experimentally edge quenched a straight 1095 knife in brine and the entire edge just blew right off. I found it in the bottom of the bucket, in a curve.

Fascinating.

kieranklein
June 18, 2014, 08:54 PM
I am not going to try 1095 till I get my kiln running. I can't give it the proper soak it needs in a coal forge. That and I have would rather use quenching oil than brine for reasons you yourself found out.

Sam Cade
June 20, 2014, 03:46 PM
Mail day!

G10 haul.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199823&stc=1&d=1403289892
The two on the left are layered with black. The third from left is layed OD/Sage.


...and to stink up the shop. :cool:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199824&stc=1&d=1403289892

blarby
June 20, 2014, 03:51 PM
Excellent !

Sam Cade
June 21, 2014, 11:55 AM
OD/Green G10 tapered scales on a VSK.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199851&stc=1&d=1403362249


Look at that alloy banding in the blade. :eek:

Sam Cade
June 21, 2014, 06:29 PM
Here at the shop it is raining sideways.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199864&stc=1&d=1403385835


With rain comes a break in the heat and the opportunity to do some light forging without feeling like a rotisserie chicken.

A kiridashi in process.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199863&stc=1&d=1403385835

Ready for heat treatment.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199862&stc=1&d=1403385835

Sam Cade
June 22, 2014, 01:51 PM
Look into my eyes! ;)



http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199908&stc=1&d=1403455847

jerkface11
June 22, 2014, 02:47 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't get bored with Sam around.

9mmforMe
June 22, 2014, 04:35 PM
LOL...geez what a character! :D

Sam Cade
June 22, 2014, 04:59 PM
Blank for what JShirley calls the "Scalliwag"

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199911&stc=1&d=1403466738

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199912&stc=1&d=1403466738

Sam Cade
June 22, 2014, 09:10 PM
....and now it looks like this:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199926&stc=1&d=1403482244

jerkface11
June 22, 2014, 09:21 PM
Ooh that looks very slicey.

Sam Cade
June 22, 2014, 09:39 PM
Ooh that looks very slicey.

It should be pretty impressive with that grind, thinness and big potbelly.

It is .13" 15n20, right handed high saber grind , so the other side is zero-drag flat.

Swish! :cool:

JShirley
June 22, 2014, 10:20 PM
That, my friend, is a good-looking knife.

Sam Cade
June 22, 2014, 10:33 PM
What shall we do for scales?

chameleonbear
June 22, 2014, 10:35 PM
What shall we do for scales?
I'd say do a Black or Blue G10 with Orange liners... However that is just me, and I love the way the bright liners with dark scales looks.

JShirley
June 22, 2014, 10:53 PM
Something that will show off the nickel in the 15n20.

jerkface11
June 22, 2014, 11:40 PM
I'd use that horn in post #180

Sam Cade
June 22, 2014, 11:56 PM
I'd use that horn in post #180
That is waaaay too thick for this little guy. I'd have to grind most of it away and grinding horn is... nasty. :barf:

Those will end up on a much bigger knife.

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 12:00 AM
A better look at how this Scalliwag is ground.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199944&stc=1&d=1403492320


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199945&stc=1&d=1403492329

hso
June 23, 2014, 01:22 AM
15n20

Is the stock material 15n20?

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 01:25 AM
Is the stock material 15n20? Aye. Tis. From Aldo.

kieranklein
June 23, 2014, 09:52 AM
I have a bar of that left over from a Damascus attempt. Maybe I should do some thing with it.

JShirley
June 23, 2014, 09:55 AM
Takes a very good edge, and polishes out great.

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 11:03 AM
It is pretty easy to heat treat as well. It takes a bit of careful soaking but that isn't much a challenge one you have the hang of it.

It is basically 1075 with added Ni.



Ni. Heh. ;)

QTQfGd3G6dg

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 11:31 AM
Later today I'm going to try some 80crv2.

kieranklein
June 23, 2014, 11:35 AM
I that is some stuff I have been wondering about. I haven't read too many people using it. They will start a threat about making one and never finish. So I was never sure how good it was.

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 04:20 PM
Almost done with this one.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199982&stc=1&d=1403551084

It feels great. POB is just behind the forward pin.

hso
June 23, 2014, 04:48 PM
Great looking grip, but the POB is probably too far back for a knife that size if it is just behind the forward pin. That takes too much "weight" from the blade and puts it in the hand leaving no feel in the blade. Index finger or guard typically would be better. Wrap some lead foil around the blade so the balance moves forward a scoonch and feel if that doesn't make the whole thing feel better.

JShirley
June 23, 2014, 05:08 PM
I'm going to say it depends on the type feel the customer wants. The POB is too far back *for a chopper*, just fine for a so-called fighter.

John

blarby
June 23, 2014, 05:47 PM
When Sam gets my commission for my kitchen set, I'd like a more "blade forward" weight.

Until then, I reserve judgement until it's in my hand.

I think a more rearword weight shift into the Palm with a knife that small will make the action quite fast.

We'll see.

I have faith in the maker. "D

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 05:56 PM
This is a fairly small general utility knife, spec'd out for a guy with larger than average hands with a strong design directive toward grip security.

As a reference,pictured with a BK2 and a 3" Res-C SYCO.It has has a similar balance to either of these.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199986&stc=1&d=1403555983


With the heavily tailhooked tang shape it is very secure in a choked back three finger grip that would facilitate more chopping grunt, though it is far from being a chopper. It is a slicer.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=199987&stc=1&d=1403556969

All that jimping isn't intended just for looks either. It runs up so far to offer purchase for the off hand on the spine to power through hard push/compression cuts.

blarby
June 23, 2014, 06:01 PM
Fantastic.

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 09:26 PM
Scaliwag with ruby red G10 scales.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200002&stc=1&d=1403568443


Blackberries are getting ripe.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200003&stc=1&d=1403568443

Cobbler ahoy!

JShirley
June 23, 2014, 09:58 PM
Looks great! How does it feel?

hso
June 23, 2014, 10:18 PM
just fine for a so-called fighter

I dunno John. Those Grecos and Breeds and Wheelers were POB on the guard or the "lighter" ones were index finger. I'd want to choke back like Sam's done to put the balance forward for hacking instead of getting the index finger POB. I'd need to play with it to feel what I'm missing.

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 10:21 PM
Looks great! How does it feel?

Pretty good. Very secure. It feels oddly Japanese.

The scales are nominally a quarter inch thick, tapering down to under an eighth of an inch at the finger groove and nearly full thickness at pommel, making it very round.

A perfectly flat 1/8" scale was just all kinds of wrong.

JShirley
June 23, 2014, 10:27 PM
Of course it does...it's a tanto, a real tanto, only Westernized by the choil.

hso
June 23, 2014, 10:32 PM
No broken-tipped-Americanized tanto there!

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
I guess it is isn't it. Sort of in that nebulous area between true tanto and kwaiken.

Sam Cade
June 23, 2014, 10:37 PM
The Red Scalliwag POB is right on the front pin, FWIW.

9mmforMe
June 24, 2014, 12:39 AM
Nice work, Sam. The two recent knives are great lookers.

blarby
June 24, 2014, 01:47 AM
Falls more towards kwaiken to my eyes.

Beautiful blade.

Sam Cade
June 24, 2014, 03:54 PM
2nd 80crv2 test piece.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200027&stc=1&d=1403635978

3/16".

Strong.

Like bull.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200028&stc=1&d=1403635978

JShirley
June 24, 2014, 04:25 PM
Pretty good shape, there.

You gonna make Fortuna out of this?

Sam Cade
June 24, 2014, 04:28 PM
I agonized over it. Finally I decided I was over-thinking it and just started grinding. :o

Sam Cade
June 24, 2014, 08:13 PM
Ready for heat treat.


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200038&stc=1&d=1403651559
This one is going to get a stabilized sisal fiber wrap.

JShirley
June 24, 2014, 09:37 PM
I wish it was bit pointier.

Sam Cade
June 24, 2014, 09:47 PM
Indeed.

I may have erred on the side of tip strength, since I plan on beating on this one.

There is enough meat on the spine that we could drop the point it if we wanted to.

On a related note, heat treat was:

Soak for 5 min.

Normalize.

Diminishing Thermal Cycles x3

Heat and quench.

Temper twice at 375.

It is in the oven right now on the first temper.

hso
June 24, 2014, 11:45 PM
Sounds good!

Deltaboy
June 25, 2014, 10:49 AM
Enjoying seeing these these examples of your work.

Sam Cade
June 26, 2014, 02:54 PM
Sounds good!

It could have used either more cycles or higher temperatures I think. It is still mighty hard.


I'm getting more chips than deformation when abusing the edge.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200073&d=1403804450



Grain on my tabs that I HTed and broke looks pretty good, about what you would expect.



John and I have a pretty big (heh ;)) 80crv2 chopper profiled and ready to grind but I need to get the bugs worked out of the HT.

Deltaboy
June 26, 2014, 03:17 PM
Keep it up.

Sam Cade
June 26, 2014, 03:55 PM
Yay, G10 haul.

"Off-white" evidently means "slightly less green". :scrutiny:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200076&stc=1&d=1403808500


Indoor Lighting:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200077&stc=1&d=1403808500

My tiny broken pelvis'd minion describes the colors as "Beigey Greyish Greenish" and "Greenish Egg Yolk."

I would have gone with "Stormcloud" and "Ghost Jade". ;)

hso
June 26, 2014, 04:57 PM
Love the T-shirt, but I think you need a different shade of nail polish there boy-o!

hso
June 26, 2014, 04:58 PM
BTW, chips = bad.

Sam Cade
June 26, 2014, 05:27 PM
Obviously. ;)
I set the edge bevel very thin to induce failure. I was interested in the how it would fail since HT is a bit of an unknown for me.

hso
June 26, 2014, 05:34 PM
What did you say you're using for your HT oven?

hso
June 26, 2014, 05:44 PM
Would a little soak at heat help take the hardness down enough to guage where final HT should be?

Sam Cade
June 26, 2014, 06:26 PM
What did you say you're using for your HT oven?

Oven portion of a GE home range. I use multiple in oven thermometers to bracket the portion of the rack that the knife is going to rest (spine down) on and occasionally verify temps with an IR gun.

Shanghai McCoy
June 26, 2014, 06:43 PM
You have a minion..?
He really IS an evil genius guys! :eek:
;)

hso
June 26, 2014, 07:03 PM
Kitchen oven? You're tempering in the oven after the HT/quench, but what are you using to heat up to critical before the quench (also, what are you quenching in?)?

Sam Cade
June 26, 2014, 07:57 PM
but what are you using to heat up to critical before the quench

Weedburner propane forge.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198928&d=1401142850



(also, what are you quenching in?)?

120-130 degree canola.

Sam Cade
June 26, 2014, 08:18 PM
OK...definitely undershot the temper heat. :eek:


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200087&stc=1&d=1403824639

hso
June 26, 2014, 10:31 PM
400=450 for tempering? :scrutiny:

:what:

Sam Cade
June 26, 2014, 10:37 PM
200-300 for tempering :scrutiny:

That is Metric/SI. :neener:


But yeah, 475 F for the high 50s.

Edit: That would be starting from full hardness of course.

hso
June 26, 2014, 11:40 PM
Yup, noticed that, which probably explains YOUR undershooting the tempering temp.:evil:

Sam Cade
June 27, 2014, 12:21 AM
Ok, if my testing files technique is sound, the blade is 60 RC.

Hrmmm....

hso
June 27, 2014, 08:36 AM
Are those the 40-65 set?

Lots of variables in the use of the file sets can throw the estimate of hardness off a lot of points. How new the file, how strong the person, the subjective nature of testing. I'd assume that you might estimate hardness lower than I might with a test set of files due to your greater strength and more recent use of tools and that might be several points.

OTOH, is this material brittle in the 55-60 range?

kieranklein
June 27, 2014, 09:26 AM
It shouldn't be. It is referred to as 52100 lite. Tough as nails steel. From what I have read previously it does need some soak time during heat treat. 5-10 mjnutes

hso
June 27, 2014, 09:31 AM
Could be harder than 60? Maybe edge geometry that thin (but then why wouldn't it bend)?

Sam, have you done a brass rod test on the edge?

kieranklein
June 27, 2014, 10:00 AM
My guess is it got either too hot in the heat treat or or low in the temper.

Sam Cade
June 27, 2014, 11:25 AM
Sam, have you done a brass rod test on the edge?

First thing I did. No chipping there.

The chipping is coming from chops on copper wire backed by clean scrap timber. Something that my thinned 5160 RTAK2 can handle with only a little edge deformation.




Are those the 40-65 set?


Yup. One of those color coded boxed sets that the materials guys all carry around.


My guess is it got either too hot in the heat treat or or low in the temper.

I'm convinced it was a too-cold temper.


I'm bumping my temper up to 400 and we will see how this goes.

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