54R surplus ammo


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ford8nr
June 4, 2014, 06:36 AM
Recently shot a vintage mil match with my 91/30 Mosin using PPU factory ammo. Shot pretty good despite the POI moving 6" right after 40rds. Guy next to me was shooting mil surplus without the fliers I've experienced with it. He gave me a few pointers with the surplus ammo which I looked into yesterday. First I weighed 100 rds, total weight was 335-345 grains, sorted out 50 weighing 341-342. Then measured those 50, measurement varied .025. Seated bullets back .010 of the shortest to break the varnish seal. We'll see how she groups later this week. Next match is only 3 weeks away.
So where is the 10gr weight difference? Bullet, powder, combination? Might have to pull a couple bullets.:confused:
The gun problem might be corrected having bedded and free floated the bbl.:)

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NCsmitty
June 4, 2014, 12:11 PM
You're going about in a sensible manner, but my research of pulling down some surplus 7.62x54R showed a charge weight difference of around 1.2gr for 10 rounds. The ammo that I used was '86 Albanian copper case w/ 148gr steel core FMJBT, and that bullet varied around 2 gr in weight over 10 rounds.
Not much that u can do about the bullet weight differences, but selecting a nominal charge weight of the factory powder and dropping more consistent loads through your own powder measure MAY give you more consistent shots. Running the cases into your dies, if you have them, to partially size the neck diameter may also help.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo014.htm


NCsmitty

yzguy87
June 4, 2014, 12:16 PM
Not to hijack your thread but how would you free float a Mosin with barrel bands?

KansasSasquatch
June 4, 2014, 01:15 PM
Not to hijack your thread but how would you free float a Mosin with barrel bands?
Take the top handguards off and float the barrel. The action screws will keep it in the stock. Or you can leave the handguard on, float the barrel, and leave "known points of contact" but that isn't truly free floating, it does work fairly well though.

BCRider
June 4, 2014, 02:03 PM
From all I've read about the Mosins it seems that they respond well to having one spot that tensions against the barrel. Typically this seems to end up being at the front of the main stock. And the pressure is supplied by a thin layer of cork or folded card stock that flexes the stock away from the barrel by a little. So it's free floated along most of the length right back to the receiver but has a light but firm sprung contact upwards at the front of the stock.

The heat shield upper cover should not touch the barrel in this case. Only the lower stock and be located by the bands.

The batch of surplus I bought is horrible. At 100 yards I get basically 7 to 10 inch groups with no significant tighter core group. And on top of that I get flyers out beyond 10 inches about ever dozen or so rounds. I tried a box of Privi Partizan and immediately the groups shrunk to 3'ish inches. And this is from a shooter that still has a lot to learn about correctly holding rifles of this sort for benched testing.

I've given up on my milsurp other than for plinking. I've now got all the components I need to reload my own ammo. That and I'm hoping to learn how to bench rest shoot the Mosin with a better holding technique to get down to 2 inch groups. Part of this is converting the rear sight from the hopelessly shallow "V" to a much more old guy eye friendly "U" shape.

LAGS
June 5, 2014, 01:43 AM
BCRider is correct.
The Mosins with the original stock shoot best if you point bed the rear tang, and the recoil lug, then free float all along the barrel channel.
Then Point bed the last inch of the stock to the barrel with Neutral or just a slight Up pressure.

mnrivrat
June 5, 2014, 03:35 AM
I think what at least some are saying (and I agree) is that your change in POI has more to do with the stock than the ammo.
There is a pressure point somewhere along the barrel channel between the barrel and the wood. That pressure point changes tension as the gun heats up from shooting.

ford8nr
June 5, 2014, 05:58 AM
I think what at least some are saying (and I agree) is that your change in POI has more to do with the stock than the ammo.
There is a pressure point somewhere along the barrel channel between the barrel and the wood. That pressure point changes tension as the gun heats up from shooting.


I totally agree on change of POI, that's why I free floated the bbl. there was a lot of contact. The ammo issue is group size vs factory ammo and the occasional fliers.

ford8nr
June 6, 2014, 04:54 PM
So I was down on the reloading bench this afternoon and decided to pull apart two rounds, a lighter one and a heavier one. Here are the results. surprisingly powder charges were fairly consistant in the two.
Cartridge one: 343.6gr
Case 145.9
Powder 48.6
Bullet 149.1

Cartridge two: 337.3gr
Case 142.7 (-3.2 vs cartridge one) :confused:
Powder 48.4 (-.2 vs cartridge one)
Bullet 146.6 (-2.5 vs cartridge one)

BSA1
June 6, 2014, 06:40 PM
My MN 91/30 is showing accuracy potential with 180gr. FMJ. I am going to try to find time to bench rest it next week using a real paper bullseye target instead of a photocopied one so I can see the bullseye at 100 yds.

p.s. I don't know if it makes a difference but I am shooting mine with the bayonet on.

aka108
June 6, 2014, 06:45 PM
When I had some Mosins the very best ammo I found was made in China. Nice brass cases and copper fmj bullets. If you ever run across some buy it.

ford8nr
June 14, 2014, 06:24 PM
So I shot another match today, this time using sorted 'processed' mil surplus ammo. Picked up 62 points in a 50rd 500 point match. Shot a 403 some of being the free floated barrel NOT affecting my POI. That's an average of the 8 ring on a 5" target (10-7 rings). So it appears sorting by weight, seething the bullets back a couple .001's for consistency and breaking the lacquer seal DOES work. Ammo shot as good if not better then PPU factory loads.

tark
June 14, 2014, 06:38 PM
Don't ever shoot com-block surplus ammo in your Mosin unless you assume it is corrosive. Even late issue stuff. I have a beautiful New England Westinghouse Mosin that I $^%@*& up the bore on, because I assumed the shiny, recent issue ammo was I shot in it was Non Corrosive. It was less than twenty years old! Surely, I thought, the commies had discovered non-corrosive priming by the early nineties!

I cursed myself for a month. Thea NEW had a wonderful trigger and Shot MOA with Norma Ammo or good handloads. It still shoots OK, I caught my mistake fairly quickly, but it is not as accurate as it was.

Be warned

ford8nr
June 14, 2014, 09:17 PM
Anything 54R that's not modern factory I assume IS corrosive in my cleaning regiment.

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