question for you guys will the 45 colt and or 44 mag kill hogs and deer


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midland man
June 13, 2014, 08:07 PM
I would like to hear ya'lls thoughts and experience on using 45 colt or 44 magnum carbines on deer and hogs? I have both, one the rossi circuit judge in 45 colt and the other in rossi m92 in 44 magnum so i'm sure the 44 would be great but was wondering about the 45 as well, so if you guys would tell me what you used and your experience and how effective these two rounds in carbine rifles were? ;)

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BCRider
June 13, 2014, 08:17 PM
A while back in the revolver forum I was describing my toned down .44Mag "plinking" ammo that I reloaded. A 240gn bullet moving at around 1050 to 1100 fps. One of the regulars replied with a smiley something along the lines "Hey BC, you DO know that your "plinking" load will pass end to end through a horse, right?". And that was from a handgun.

Shot from a rifle and out to a reasonable distance there's no doubt that they'll do the job. If you chose to go with the .45Colt you'll want to make sure you avoid the weak and soft "cowboy" loads and go with proper SAMMI spec loads. But either will do the job. The bullets make up for any disadvantage in speed with their weight.

Reloadron
June 13, 2014, 08:46 PM
A Man's Got to Know His Limitations
and the limitations of his cartridges. :)

question for you guys will the 45 colt and or 44 mag kill hogs and deer

The deer I have taken in West Virginia using a Ruger 44 Carbine, S&W Model 29 and in 45 Colt a Ruger Redhawk all did just fine at killing whitetail deer. The only limitation is knowing your range and getting the shot placed where it needs to be. With my carbine I was comfortable out to 100 yards, open sights. With the handguns around 50 yards and not that the bullets wouldn't kill a hog or deer beyond that, simply that the handgun doesn't give me the sight radius the rifle does.

Absolutely agree with BCRider in that the 44 Magnum and 45 Colt will do just fine when used within a proper range.

Ron

zerobarrier
June 13, 2014, 08:49 PM
I hunt deer in PA with 44mag carbine and revolver. Have used anything from 200gr nolser HP to 240xtp, all 1 shot kills.This works really well if you don't reload: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900410534/winchester-supreme-ammunition-44-remington-magnum-250-grain-platinum-tip-hollow-point. Its 250gr platinum tip HP. Typically they are all within 150yd shots

cowpoke
June 13, 2014, 09:04 PM
My experience with the platinum tips,Shot in a rifle is they come apart violently. little penetration in big game.

rcmodel
June 13, 2014, 09:15 PM
Of course they will!

You put a 1/2" hole through an animals boiler room with either one and it's going to fall down and die very shortly.

The .45 Colt was designed by the U.S. army in 1879 to kill or stop charging horses during battle.
The .44 Mag has killed every big game animal on the planet since then.

And the .45 Colt probably has too.
Just not as well publicized in advertising.

rc

WYOMan
June 13, 2014, 09:32 PM
YES!! I can push a 250 grain cast bullet out of my 24" 1892 at 1560 fps. I'm guessing the Hornady 250 XTP's are probably close to the same. Do you think that a hog or deer will walk away from that? I don't.

zerobarrier
June 13, 2014, 10:20 PM
My experience with the platinum tips,Shot in a rifle is they come apart violently. little penetration in big game.
Last December I used the Winchester platinum tips for deer season. I shout a doe broad side, bullet went thru ribs, about a 1" hole thru the lungs, then out the other side. I would say that is good penetration. Shot out of my Ruger 77/44 18" barrel. It was a big doe too.

Hk Dan
June 13, 2014, 10:25 PM
I hunt during our shotgun season with a Smith .44. Thus far I have never had one make another footstep, they all have died in their tracks. I have taken my 30th deer last year with that gun.

MCgunner
June 13, 2014, 11:05 PM
I can give you a first hand qualified YES on the .45 Colt. That means the .44 will, also. Hell, I know it will because I've shot a few with a .357 revolver! Put it where it counts and use a heavy for caliber flat point cast bullet at good velocity. That's all it takes.

Jlr2267
June 13, 2014, 11:15 PM
Yes. The right load will punch a large hole clean through either.

critter
June 14, 2014, 07:28 AM
I have taken several deer and hogs with the .44 Mag from either a Ruger Redhawk or a Ruger Blackhawk hunter model. Ranges have been from 'up close' to about 65 yards. Bullets were always 240 JHP over healthy loads of H110. Recovery of bullets is unlikely as you get in and out holes (broadside shots for the most part). Very happy with the results.

I've taken only one deer with the .45 Colt. Used a S&W model 25 with an 8 3/8" barrel. Bullet was a hard cast SWC at around 900 fps, iron sights at 50 yards. Of course, I got little to no expansion evidently but got complete penetration through and through at a pretty good angle. SWC's are known for that-punching holes. Happy with that too.

I love hunting with handguns with big ole holes in the end of the barrels.

Sav .250
June 14, 2014, 11:14 AM
A Man's Got to Know His Limitations
and the limitations of his cartridges. :)

question for you guys will the 45 colt and or 44 mag kill hogs and deer

The deer I have taken in West Virginia using a Ruger 44 Carbine, S&W Model 29 and in 45 Colt a Ruger Redhawk all did just fine at killing whitetail deer. The only limitation is knowing your range and getting the shot placed where it needs to be. With my carbine I was comfortable out to 100 yards, open sights. With the handguns around 50 yards and not that the bullets wouldn't kill a hog or deer beyond that, simply that the handgun doesn't give me the sight radius the rifle does.

Absolutely agree with BCRider in that the 44 Magnum and 45 Colt will do just fine when used within a proper range.

Ron
Very sound advice........................

rondog
June 14, 2014, 11:54 AM
I've only shot one deer, but used my .44 mag Winchester. Punched a big hole clear through without even slowing down, and she was down and dead before I even realized I'd made a hit.

tahunua001
June 14, 2014, 01:27 PM
I can't speak for hogs but both will most definitely kill a deer. I've killed deer with a 9mm carbine and your choices are much better suited.

Patocazador
June 14, 2014, 05:50 PM
Yes!

Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt 45 yards from a tree stand.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/docjawbraker/IMG_0416web.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/docjawbraker/media/IMG_0416web.jpg.html)

short barrel
June 14, 2014, 06:45 PM
I don't have hogs here to shoot at, but I sold my .44M hunting gun in favor of the 45Colt. I did not realize the potential of the 45 until after I started reloading the 45. I can make a better hunting load now. Currently using a hard cast flat nose of 300 grains over 2400 powder. Quarter size groups at 25 yards of a rest and I'm shooting at higher velocity that the same weight .44 with less pressure.

I take nothing away from the .44M. It'll do for whatever you go after. The .45 is just a tad better. I mean it stands to reason; a bigger case means you can put more stuff in it.

DammitBoy
June 14, 2014, 07:00 PM
Used to hunt hawgs all the time with a Ruger Blackhawk 45colt back when I hunted the Butler, AL area. Took several 250-325 boar and sow with Hornady hollow points.

MCgunner
June 14, 2014, 08:07 PM
Used to hunt hawgs all the time with a Ruger Blackhawk 45colt back when I hunted the Butler, AL area. Took several 250-325 boar and sow with Hornady hollow points.

I load the 300 grain XTP in mine, very accurate. 4 5/8" barrel shoots it 1120 fps. Plenty for hogs.

From my ex-son-in-law's .45 Colt Rossi, I clocked that same load near 1500 fps. I reckon that's enough, don't you?

chas08
June 14, 2014, 10:46 PM
Seven of the ten hogs I killed this past fall were taken with a Rossi 92 in .44 Mag. Distances ranged from 35 - 100 yards. Winchester White-Box ammo in 240 gr. flatpoint worked really well.

buck460XVR
June 15, 2014, 02:13 PM
I taken several deer with my 77/44 as well as with my Rossi M92 .357. I have also taken deer with revolvers in those same calibers. Deer ain't that hard to kill if you hit 'em right, but tend to get real tough when hit wrong.

hardluk1
June 16, 2014, 05:32 PM
The right bullet and load in a 45 colt with full time 45 only revolver is fine but is any 410/45 accurate enough to use could be the real issue. The ones I have seen are not very accrurate at close range. I don't see them is a hunting firearm .

buck460XVR
June 16, 2014, 05:39 PM
The right bullet and load in a 45 colt with full time 45 only revolver is fine but is any 410/45 accurate enough to use could be the real issue. The ones I have seen are not very accrurate at close range. I don't see them is a hunting firearm .


While this may be true for the "Judge", the "Circuit Judge" is a carbine version and very well could be accurate enough in .45Colt to hunt deer with. The .44mag only version of the "Circuit Judge" has always intrigued me.

http://www.rossiusa.com/images/imagesMain/SCJ44MB_017.jpg

CraigC
June 16, 2014, 05:55 PM
With comparable loads, it's a wash. Either one will do the job.

Comparing standard pressure .44Mag to Ruger only .45Colt the rule of thumb is: For a given bullet weight, the .44Mag will usually yield 100fps higher velocity. For a given sectional density, the .44 will deliver 200fps higher velocity. The .45 is slightly larger in diameter but the important dimension, when speaking of cast bullets, is the diameter of the meplat.

illinoisburt
June 16, 2014, 06:36 PM
The rossi more than likely is better choice for power and accuracy. Not much difference if you handload, but factory 44 mag will be substantially more powerful than the majority of factory 45. I would be more concerned with accuracy. I have not heard good things about any of the judge guns at 50-100 yards with 45 colt ammo, though yours might be an exception. 3 to 4 inches should be minimum acceptable accuracy at whatever max range you plan to shoot. Make sure it is clean hole, no keyholing.

Blue Brick
June 16, 2014, 07:27 PM
The .45 Colt was designed by the U.S. army in 1871 to kill or stop charging horses during battle.

+ 1

Blue Brick
June 16, 2014, 07:33 PM
FYI:

Comparing standard loads and not +P or Ruger loads - grain for grain and barrel length for barrel length the 45 Colt and 45 ACP are almost twins. But 45 ACP has a higher working pressure.

ljnowell
June 17, 2014, 05:46 AM
With comparable loads, it's a wash. Either one will do the job.

Comparing standard pressure .44Mag to Ruger only .45Colt the rule of thumb is: For a given bullet weight, the .44Mag will usually yield 100fps higher velocity. For a given sectional density, the .44 will deliver 200fps higher velocity. The .45 is slightly larger in diameter [/B]but the important dimension, when speaking of cast bullets, is the diameter of the meplat.[/B]

That's a fact. Either round will kill deer or hogs deader than dead at standard pressure. Bullet choice is important though

I have taken two deer with a 45 colt NMBH. The first was with a 300gr leaf billet over a ridiculous charge of 2400. It was a smoking jot load that was brutal on both ends of the gun. End result: deer dead. The second one was a 255ge LSWC at a much more same velocity(though still technically a Ruger only load) and the result was the same: deer dead right there.

H&Hhunter
June 17, 2014, 11:47 AM
So just a side note on the .44 mag carbine. I have a friend who has several of the original Marlin carbines that have been modified to feed the 330 Gr Garret hard cast load. That little bugger is knocking on the door of a factory .45-70. I watched him punch through the shoulders of a very large boar hog with stiff thick cartilage plates. That 330 gr hard cast sailed though the shoulders with an exit with little effort.

I watched the very same carbine make the very same shot on a similar boar with a 240 gr Remington factory soft point. We killed that hog about a year later and dug the remains of the soft point out of his shoulder where the bullet over expanded stopped in the cartilage and failed to penetrate.

As has been mentioned above and especially with hogs bullet choice matters.

BTW

A .44 Mag 330 gr Garret Hammerhead WILL NOT feed in a Marlin lever action with out major modification to the rifle. The load gate and feed ramp must be cut and polished to allow these long bullets to feed. Dave Clay of DRC in Texas is the primary gunsmith that I am aware of who does these mods.

CraigC
June 17, 2014, 12:15 PM
A .44 Mag 330 gr Garret Hammerhead WILL NOT feed in a Marlin lever action with out major modification to the rifle.
They also need a new faster twist barrel. The factory 1-38" is too slow for anything heavier than 300gr.


I watched the very same carbine make the very same shot on a similar boar with a 240 gr Remington factory soft point. We killed that hog about a year later and dug the remains of the soft point out of his shoulder where the bullet over expanded stopped in the cartilage and failed to penetrate.
The .44Mag is often misjudged by the old tech 240gr loads. It becomes a completely different critter when fed with quality cast bullets beginning with the 250gr Keith and ending with the 355gr Beartooth. Although the 330's are probably the best heavyweight.

H&Hhunter
June 17, 2014, 12:43 PM
They also need a new faster twist barrel. The factory 1-38" is too slow for anything heavier than 300gr.


Craig thanks for the reminder I had forgotten the most expensive part of the conversion!

CraigC
June 17, 2014, 12:49 PM
It is expensive! It's a shame that Marlin won't do with the 1894 what they did with the .444, that is, install a 1-20" twist barrel.

Art Eatman
June 17, 2014, 01:07 PM
Heh. Given how many deer and hogs have been killed with .357 rifles and revolvers, "I don't understand the question." :D

I'd have zero qualms about using a 92 with 250-grain hard-cast bullets.

No idea, though, about pressure limitations on the Colt.

H&Hhunter
June 17, 2014, 01:23 PM
It is expensive! It's a shame that Marlin won't do with the 1894 what they did with the .444, that is, install a 1-20" twist barrel.

Good point. I wonder as I've never messed with a .444 will it feed 330 gr Hard cast bullets if you wanted to reload them. Same bore diameter as a .44 mag right?

CraigC
June 17, 2014, 04:01 PM
Same bore and same slow 1-38" twist until just a few years ago. They changed it to a 1-20" that will stabilize everything up to the 405gr Beartooth.

H&Hhunter
June 17, 2014, 05:21 PM
They changed it to a 1-20" that will stabilize everything up to the 405gr Beartooth.

That makes a .444 a bit more interesting BUT at that point why not just get a .45-70? They weigh about the same the rifles are about the same size and a .45-70 is a WAY more capable of cartridge.

To me the .44 mag carbine makes sense from the standpoint of one ammo type for pistol or rifle. If you are going .444 carbine you might as well just go .45-70 and get it over with. Just my thoughts on the subject. I was all excited to get a custom take down .44 mag carbine from DRC that was all rigged up to shoot heavy 330 gr garret loads but after seeing the price tag came to the same conclusion. I kept my .45-70 CB and hacked it down to 22" for a saddle gun/close range moose and elk and hog popper instead.

Then there is option B if a guy is hunting in a pistol caliber only area I think the heavy .44 mag load capable carbine really starts to come into it's own! And if I was hunting in one of those areas as a rule, you can bet I'd have a really cool .44 mag carbine.

CraigC
June 17, 2014, 06:27 PM
IMHO, it makes the .444 mighty interesting. The 405gr is comparable to a ~460gr .45/70 and the .444 will launch it faster. With slight modification for a longer OAL, crimping in the bottom crimp groove, it'll cut them loose at 2150fps.

It will also shoot faster and flatter than the .45-70 with deer-appropriate loads.

Taylor's has a new 1892 model that looks like it might do the heavier bullets right out of the box. Higher than other models but quite a bit less than a DRC custom.

buck460XVR
June 18, 2014, 10:51 AM
.

I watched the very same carbine make the very same shot on a similar boar with a 240 gr Remington factory soft point. We killed that hog about a year later and dug the remains of the soft point out of his shoulder where the bullet over expanded stopped in the cartilage and failed to penetrate.

As has been mentioned above and especially with hogs bullet choice matters.

.

Yep, hogs are a different animal. As I said before, deer aren't that hard to kill and the remmie 240gr JSP works well on them. I've found it to be a tad softer and more fragile than the Nosler 240gr JSP or Speer's 270gr Deep Curl. I get complete pass thrus with both of the latter with double shoulder shots on good size deer, using my .44 carbines. While I've used 300 grainers for deer outta the .44s, IMHO, they really aren't needed.

DammitBoy
June 19, 2014, 08:42 PM
Yep, hogs are a different animal...

+1 on that

MCgunner
June 19, 2014, 11:19 PM
I'd have zero qualms about using a 92 with 250-grain hard-cast bullets.

No idea, though, about pressure limitations on the Colt.

The 92 action is more than strong enough to take any "Ruger/TC only" load in the loading manuals. It's a 100 yard cannon with a hard cast heavy loaded hot, too. :D Heck, Rossi makes the 92 chambered for .454 Casull. Only mod I know is that they put a screw in magazine spring/follower in it. I like that feature, makes it easier to unload, don't have to run 'em all through the action. But, my Rossi 92 is in .357 magnum which is more'n enough for deer and hogs at woods ranges.

Officers'Wife
June 19, 2014, 11:32 PM
When the State of Indiana changed her hunting regulations to allow the use of pistol cartridges for the harvest of deer my Dad took out his .44 Mag Marlin rifle out of the closet and started bringing me venison hams to cure. Trust me, it works on deer.

When he helps thin out the wild hogs in the swamp though he still uses the 30-06 (Garand) or 45-70 (Another Marlin) so I can't say on them. The hogs involved were "lost" sometime in the 1950's so I don't know if they qualify as feral or not.

Art Eatman
June 20, 2014, 06:52 PM
Released domestic hogs begin regressing within three to four generations in the wild. It doesn't take long to change from roly-poly fat-faced critters to "piney woods rooter", tusks and all.

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