rebarrel or Buy an RO?


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Detritus
June 15, 2014, 03:31 AM
cut rambling explanation and details of why I'm asking this. in effort to make this more readable

Recently started shooting the local USPSA and have been using my wife's 1911since my own gun (identical except for barrel/bushing fit) does not group as satisfactorily as I would like. I beginning to feel guilty about this (using wife's gun) so I've been looking at my options, and as normal for me I'd like the feed back of others so that I may attempt to make a more informed decision. So far the options I've considered are as follows. please give your input or advice

have a match grade barrel and bushing installed by a gunsmith. most likely Ed Vandenburg
buy one of the various "Ez-fit" or similar name barrel & bushing kits. this has some appeal on it's own because i want to eventually learn how to do an actual "gunsmith fit" barrel install anyway
Skip trying to fix up the current gun, save up to buy a Springfield Range Officer, and keep using wife's pistol in the mean time. this one is mitigated by the fact that SA does not give any kind of accuracy guarantee with the RO, and it's basically a Mil-Spec with target sights and a beavertail


well what do you guys think? what's the better route to go?

as always thank you for your time and any advice or info you care to give.

ETA: If you have personal experience with the Range Officer, or with the DIY barrel kits please let me know. I'd like to make as informed of a decision as I can. :)

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Old Fuff
June 15, 2014, 12:43 PM
Question:

Given the nature of the game, exactly how much precision accuracy do you need?

Match grade barrels were originally designed for bullseye shooting, which is entirely different. These barrels have tighter chambers and are oversized at certain points so that they can be fitted for a better, more uniform lockup. All this is good.

But on the other side of the coin they can increase the chance of a failure to feed or go fully into battery, especially if you are shooting lead bullets and not able to clean the bore/chamber except between different stages. Have a malfunction and the clock can kill you.

If you decide on a new barrel anyway, I suggest you send your pistol to a qualified pistolsmith and have a whole accuracy job done rather then just install the barrel. The barrel itself is only part of the picture, and you need to be sure reliability issues are addressed too.

mbopp
June 15, 2014, 03:16 PM
The barrel may be OK, why not try just a new fitted bushing first?
Be careful about fitting it too tight. I had a very accurate 1911 but it would fail to RTB after 20 rounds or so. The bushing to barrel fit was something like .0005" and would gum up with powder residue.

HighExpert
June 15, 2014, 03:18 PM
I have a buddy who just bought the RO on my recommendation and is thrilled with it. 2" groups out of Ransom Rest @25yds. With target SWC and hardball. No feeding issues, clean trigger and good price. Hard to beat for the money. It is still not a Bullseye gun but could become one with more cash, good for action shooting.

ATLDave
June 15, 2014, 03:21 PM
I second Old Fuff's reaction. How bad do the groups have to be in USPSA for them to be the limiting factor on your score? I guess it depends on stage design... mini-poppers at 100' are legal, I think, but you don't really see that, at least where I am. A-zones are pretty good-sized.

Have you done as much as you can in terms of experimenting with different ammo/loads to see if your existing gun simply likes one load better than the other?

Detritus
June 15, 2014, 10:35 PM
Given the nature of the game, exactly how much precision accuracy do you need?


From a sandbag rest the gun currently won't keep 16 shots inside the upper A-zone of a USPSA "Metric" target, they'll all stay on target but not all within the upper A. I had a Springfield WW2-GI that did better than that with it's itty bitty sights.

in my estimation the gun is currently good enough to carry, but it's not as accurate as I would like.
to be direct about it I want to be able to reasonably assume that any hit outside the A-zone is my fault not the gun's. and while the main A-zone is easy on USPSA targets, that upper one is only about 1/4 the size.

I've tried different loads and have settled on the two best out of my gun (wife's gun shoots well regardless of powder type/charge as long as you use 230gr RN) and it still disappointing.

thinking of trying a suggestion from another forum and getting an EGW pre-fit bushing and see if that helps first.

ATLDave
June 16, 2014, 10:01 AM
One school of thought is that trying for upper A's in USPSA is a bad strategy. If cover or a no-shoot forces you to the upper portion of the target (especially if you're shooting major), then the extra time it would take to confidently shoot A's isn't worth it. Just eat the one point drop and move on. Remember, it's points divided by time, so slowing dropping a second to pick up two points isn't a good strategy.

But you're probably just using that as a way to describe the inaccuracy. I've never tried to accurize a pistol, so my inclination would be to buy a pistol that was already accurate enough for my purposes.

Detritus
June 16, 2014, 10:41 AM
But you're probably just using that as a way to describe the inaccuracy

Mostly.
But I'm also one of those guys whose philosophy RE: desired accuracy from a given gun is that if I know that I want to be able to hit an area X inches in size, then if possible it's a good idea to have a gun capable of shooting a group 1/2-X in size or better. probably all the years as a predominately rifle shooter and chasing groups smaller than bullet dia.

So no I'm not really that worried about dropping a point or two on a target where only the upper A is presented. I just want to be able to say that a C or D hit down on the main body of the target was me not the gun.

so slowing dropping a second to pick up two points isn't a good strategy.
In a way that's also part of it, there are some target presentations that are seeming rather common locally where I feel that if using my own pistol, I would have to slow down too much to avoid a hit on "Hard cover" (aka a Miss)or a no-shoot. Again i'm just trying to get to where, at least for awhile, I can say that I'm the limiting factor not the gun. and my pistol currently does not give me the confidence to say that.

tarosean
June 16, 2014, 02:39 PM
So no I'm not really that worried about dropping a point or two on a target where only the upper A is presented. I just want to be able to say that a C or D hit down on the main body of the target was me not the gun.

In the long run that C or D hit will go more to your hit factor, than the extra reloads a Officers size frame might incur..

ATLDave
June 16, 2014, 03:14 PM
I think his reference to "officer" is a Range Officer, which is a full-sized 1911 model Springfield Armory, not an officer-sized compact-frame 1911.

tarosean
June 16, 2014, 04:25 PM
^ got ya.
Not familiar with that model, just assumed an officers by the name. Course even that don't have merit as you can run bigger mags anyhow... LoL.


OP: FWIW the last match I did in the Houston area, someone in my squads gun was key holing every shot.. He still beat me... :eek:

Kp321
June 16, 2014, 08:32 PM
I would fit a match bushing and install a Group Gripper. That is what I run at USPSA matches on my Para double stack and my Colt single stack. The combination should tighten your groups significantly for much less money than a new barrel. Caution, the Group Gripper can change POI, hope you have adjustable sights.

Detritus
June 16, 2014, 11:06 PM
OP: FWIW the last match I did in the Houston area, someone in my squads gun was key holing every shot.. He still beat me...

that wasn't last month about an hour south of town was it? had a guy in my squad at the may match, shooting production I think, that was somehow key-holing and still keeping most of em inside the A :scrutiny::confused:

tarosean
June 17, 2014, 04:26 AM
^No, about an hour north, out by Hempstead. He was shooting in Limited with an M&P if I recall correctly.

How many times do you find yourself hitting just outside the perfs on the 6 x 11 inch A zone?

Those are the only points that you *might* be able to pick up with a more accurate gun.

Detritus
June 17, 2014, 01:52 PM
How many times do you find yourself hitting just outside the perfs on the 6 x 11 inch A zone?

this thread has me reflecting a bit, so i'm going to take a little time before work this afternoon to hit the range and run both guns to make sure I've not let myself become overly biased. Ie find out what the actual difference in accuracy of both guns is.

we'll see how it goes

Detritus
June 18, 2014, 01:21 AM
So maybe it's a bit psychological, instead of being as large a difference as I thought it was.

went out and put about 35 rounds through each pistol at 50ft before work. targets attatched below

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2902/14447590582_843f9092d0_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/o1FFkm)My pistol 2014-06-17 veiw one (https://flic.kr/p/o1FFkm)

and
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3908/14445586791_3c6613957a_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/o1vpFe)Trisha's pistol 2014-06-17 veiw 1 (https://flic.kr/p/o1vpFe)


Think I'll try running my gun next match I shoot, and see how it goes. Which won't be till Sept since I'm going to be out of town the weekend of the July match, and swore I'd never shoot another match in Texas in August.

tarosean
June 18, 2014, 02:00 PM
Similar enough...


BTW There are some indoor matches ran by Shiloh in S. Houston.

mgmorden
June 23, 2014, 05:59 PM
If you really want the accuracy have a barrel fit. Doing it yourself may not get you your desired results. Buying another gun you get another factory spec gun which isn't going to match the performance of a custom fitted setup.

LeonCarr
June 23, 2014, 09:32 PM
Let Ed Vandenberg fit a new barrel and bushing.

Ed is good people and does excellent work.

A quality barrel and bushing job will deliver match grade accuracy longer than an easy fit barrel or group gripper and is well worth the cost.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

kitsapshooter
June 23, 2014, 11:07 PM
Y'all are overlooking the importance of the barrel link and link pin.

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