7mm Rem Mag help needed


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Pit4Brains
June 24, 2014, 08:07 PM
I have never loaded belted brass before, just -06 and handgun. My question is weather or not to full-length size or just neck size the brass. It will be fired in the same rifle it was fire-sized in. I want to measure for a good c.o.l. so I'm kinda leaning towards neck sizing only. Thoughts?
Thanks..

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nastynatesfish
June 24, 2014, 08:18 PM
You can neck since till it gets to tight to chamber. I never seen any benefits from neck to fl sizing. I set my die up to just bump the shoulder enough to close the bolt easy. I had 15+ loads on my brass in 3 barrels before I had my first separation. The brass I'm shooting now is Winchester and have 9 loads on it with no issues. I don't run blazing hot, I shoot 140 bergers with 64gr h4831 and 162amax with 63.5gr.

tightgroup tiger
June 24, 2014, 08:47 PM
I wouldn't touch that shoulder unless I had to. See post 2. The better supported that case is the more accurate it can be when everything is right. I do this on 30-30s also with not bumping the shoulder as long as it will chamber easily in my lever actions or in my BLR Browning 30-06. If they will chamber I leave the shoulders along. Your belted magnum isn't that much different.

Pit4Brains
June 24, 2014, 08:52 PM
EDIT: Thanks for the advise. I guess I'll neck size and go from there like I normally do..
I trimmed the brass to 2.490 IAW Hornady 8th Edition Handbook. I guess I'll have him chamber a few empties to check for fit before I go any further. If I have to FL size, I can always re-trim I guess. My Biggest concern was how belted brass headspaces at the belt instead of the shoulder. I'm still learning this headspace thing. Thanks for the help.

witchhunter
June 24, 2014, 09:07 PM
If this is your huntin rig, make sure you run em through the chamber before you take er huntin to make sure there are no surprises in the heat of the moment.

oneounceload
June 24, 2014, 09:15 PM
I have never done anything else but neck size for my 700BDL

blarby
June 24, 2014, 09:23 PM
f this is your huntin rig, make sure you run em through the chamber before you take er huntin to make sure there are no surprises in the heat of the moment.

Thats great advice right there.

Pit4Brains
June 24, 2014, 10:18 PM
These will be hunting rounds for my neighbor. I'm building them for his rifle so we'll fire a few groups of five one charge/c.o.l. at a time at the range looooong before he takes them to the field.
I use RCBS and he brought me some LEE dies that he picked up. I'm not liking this collet-held sizer pin. It seemed harder to set this die than my RCBS. Maybe it's just my lack of experience with them.

nastynatesfish
June 25, 2014, 12:16 AM
They only headspace off the first new firing. Neck will work. I just quit using my neck die and only use my fl sizer

gamestalker
June 25, 2014, 12:45 AM
I get a few more reloads from the brass by necking. But do realize that even if you decide to neck, you'll still need to maintain the shoulders with a FL die.

And another possible, which I've experienced with one of my tight chambered 7 mags. is the web will bulge out before the primer pockets or incipient head separation takes it's toll. I do load on the warm side though to, so I'm sure that has some bearing on this.

At present, and head stamp depending, I average 10-12 reloads from my brass using a neck die. FL only, I get about some where between 7 - 10 loads form my brass.

I am a proponent of using a neck die,both for accuracy and extended life of the brass.

GS

Pit4Brains
June 25, 2014, 01:29 AM
Awesome. I have only necked my loads for my 25-06 break open and my 30-06 bolt and have had good success with each of them.
Now I just hope he can find some powder and LRMP somewhere. Our shelves are empty around here.

BTW, what is that third (die) that comes in a Lee set? Is that a collet bullet puller? Like I said before I'm pretty much RCBS equipped and I use a kinetic puller if needed.

gamestalker
June 25, 2014, 02:17 AM
I've never used Lee bottle neck dies before, so I couldn't say. But from what I hear around here, they make a pretty decent rifle die.

Just resize them as if they didn't have a belt. In other words, don't push the shoulders back more than is absolutely necessary for chamber fit, or you'll experience case head separations right away. Tightgroup Tiger said it very well, don't touch the shoulders unless it's necessary, and then only enough to obtain chamber fit.

GS

Skyshot
June 25, 2014, 09:35 AM
I only neck size my 7mmRM and as was said by gamestalker, keep a close eye for web seperation. You can make a feeler gauge for this with a large paper clip. Straighten the clip out and turn one end up at 90 degrees. You can then insert that end into the case and scrape it against the inside wall and you can actually feel a dip when the web starts to separate. Use a new case for reference if your not sure about how it should feel. You can get good case life by sticking to medium velocity loads.

Pit4Brains
July 9, 2014, 11:02 PM
We finally got some primers and powder shipped in. I am using CCI 250 primers and IMR4064 under a 160 gr nosler. Before I load these round with these hard to find primers, I was wondering if I can get away with large rifle primers instead of the magnums. LR primers are on the shelf here. I'm starting the loads at 49 gr and working up to 53 one grain at a time. With a load density between 67% and 72%, It seems to me that a standard primer should do the trick. Thoughts??..

gamestalker
July 10, 2014, 01:00 AM
If it's been fired through the same rifle your going to shoot it from, then you can certainly just neck size until it needs bumping, which it eventually will. I recommend chamber checking each piece after necking it, and prior to going forward with priming, charging, and seating though, just in case you get an odd ball piece that may have already been tight from the get go, I run into that now and then, in fact I just did about an hour ago. But I also have a very tight chamber, which I'm sure has some bearing on this.

I get 2-3 more cycles off my brass by necking my 7 mag. brass, which is to say 10-12 loads by necking it v.s. 8-10-ish only FL sizing. But because I load on the rather warm side, I run into problems with the web getting pushed out before my primer pockets get loose or incipient head separation presents. This is something I'm going to address with a Innovative Technology collet die in the very near future.

As for primers, the powders and data I load with are published with magnum primers, so that's what I've always used. In other words, stick to the published recommendation in this respect and you'll be fine.

GS

Pit4Brains
July 10, 2014, 01:32 AM
[QUOTE]As for primers, the powders and data I load with are published with magnum primers, so that's what I've always used. In other words, stick to the published recommendation in this respect and you'll be fine./QUOTE]

I have the first ten rounds loaded an I used the mag primers per load data. I'm trying to work up a load for his rifle so I want to eliminate as many variables as possible.

I tried to neck size this brass with the Lee dies he supplied but I found that the casings were about .010 short and the bullet would pass thru the neck. I started over and FL sized them all and was able to trim to 2.490 +.005/-0
From what I understand the belted cases headspace off of the belt so having fire formed brass shouldn't be as big of an issue as rimless brass.. Thanks for the advice..

nastynatesfish
July 10, 2014, 11:58 AM
I use standard primers in my 7mag. I use h 4831sc. Never tried 4064 in mine. It may just be easier to set up your fired brass in the press. Adjust the die depth until the sized brass chambers easily. I only bump shoulders. I don't neck size or fl size anymore. I haven't since 2009.

gamestalker
July 10, 2014, 04:54 PM
Belted cases only head space of the belt the first time they are fired. After the initial firing you definitely want to work off the shoulder, other wise, you'll very quickly start experiencing case head separations, just like with any bottle neck cartridge.:eek:

Is it possible that a chamber may so tight as to head space off the belt and shoulder at the same time, maybe? But to avoid any issues as described above, always seek to head space off the shoulder.

GS

ironworkerwill
July 10, 2014, 05:03 PM
Belted cases only head space of the belt the first time they are fired. After the initial firing you definitely want to work off the shoulder, other wise, you'll very quickly start experiencing case head separations, just like with any bottle neck cartridge.


Very true.

OP, you will have to get a FL die if you want to keep using the brass. Or at least a body die.

ArchAngelCD
July 10, 2014, 05:38 PM
We finally got some primers and powder shipped in. I am using CCI 250 primers and IMR4064 under a 160 gr nosler. Before I load these round with these hard to find primers, I was wondering if I can get away with large rifle primers instead of the magnums. LR primers are on the shelf here. I'm starting the loads at 49 gr and working up to 53 one grain at a time. With a load density between 67% and 72%, It seems to me that a standard primer should do the trick. Thoughts??..
Magnum primers are only needed for hard to ignite powders and for heavy charge weights of 70gr or higher. IMR4064 is not a hard powder to ignite and your charge weights are not heavy. Unless you are going to be shooting this ammo in -30 degrees standard LR primers are just fine...

BUT, how did you make your powder choice? It's my opinion that powder is way too fast for the 7mm Rem Mag. I would have bought 4350, 4831 or Hybrid 100 instead. (especially with a 160gr bullet) I feel the slower powders will produce better accuracy considering the fill the case better.

Pit4Brains
July 10, 2014, 09:47 PM
We were looking for 4831 0r RL22 but he couldn't find any anywhere. He found this and Nosler had load data for it with the 160 so we went with it. We're sacrificing some velocity as well with their powder.

Thanks for that insight on belted cases fellas..

nastynatesfish
July 11, 2014, 10:55 AM
Another option on powders is h1000 if you can find it. Us869 also. I seen loads for h50bmg too

gamestalker
July 11, 2014, 06:01 PM
If you can find RL22, you've struck gold. That powder has absolutely shined in all the 7 mags. I run it in. FYI, it likes functions best up near the top end of the table. So if you don't get acceptable results and pressures are still good, continue working up, you'll likely find good accuracy up near max..

GS

tightgroup tiger
July 11, 2014, 08:59 PM
Gamestalker, RL22 for 7mm mag? that's a good piece of information to tuck away in my library.

Thank you

NCsmitty
July 11, 2014, 10:12 PM
I understand that there are still shortages in powders and such, and this venture is fairly new for you, but a quick look at a burn rate chart would give you more options than IMR4831 or Rel-22. In fact, there are some 30 + powders that would be a better choice than IMR4064. The 7mm REMAG thrives on slow powders with heavy bullets, and IMO, you're handicapping yourself with IMR4064. Only with the lightest bullets is IMR4064 a viable choice in the 7MM REMAG.
I'm not here to criticize because I know it's a learning curve, but you can do so much better if you take the time to analyze some of the other slow powders offered. The so called off brands such as Accurate and Ramshot have some great powders for the belted magnums, and might be more available than the favored powders, and a quick look at their site might give you a new perspective on their line of powders.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/

I've had a couple 7mm REMAGS, and they deserve the right combo to achieve their full potential.


NCsmitty

gamestalker
July 11, 2014, 10:37 PM
I've recently tested IMR-4831, H4831 and IMR-4350 with 145 gr. bullets, 4350 and H4831 functioned well, but the velocities weren't what I was accustomed to with RL22, but accuracy was very good, and as good as with 22. But IMR-4831 just didn't impress me at all, in any respect.

H4831 is very clean burning too, it was hardly visible that the cartridge had even been fired upon extraction. 22 isn't nearly as clean, but it's very accurate, and it certainly delivers the expected potential of the 7 mag..

I haven't tried Ramshot or Accurate powders for the 7 mag., but as NCsmitty said, it might be worth a look to see if any of the data suggests a good match.

GS

Pit4Brains
July 15, 2014, 08:10 PM
NC I could not agree with you more on the powder choice. I have some RL22 and 4831 on my bench that i use for my 25 and 30 06's, but not enough to do a load work-up for my neighbors rifle. My dad told me to never give anybody your last anything, so I made him find his own powder. As the market comes around, we will definately be looking for some other stuff. Elk season is around the corner and I want to get him the best grouping load with the powder we have.

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