PS90 Pretty Fun


PDA






Welding Rod
July 1, 2014, 01:10 AM
So I picked up a PS90 w/ factory red dot (labelled FN, a C More STS).

Super fun gun to shoot, pretty accurate too. Trigger has creep but it is smooth and light so not too hard to shoot reasonably well. First time out I was able to hit our 100 yard gong, about 10" in diameter, most of the time standing.

Appears well built. Design is quite interesting. I like the ergonomics and handling characteristics. Nice and short for inside the house or vehicle.

Super quick and easy to take down and clean.

I bought this gun sight unseen.... Don't think I ever saw one in person. Rolled the dice and came out on the good end it seems. Wish I had tried one long ago. I plan to shoot it in a few 200 yard high power matches just for kicks, and I will probably use it the rest of this year for carbine matches too.

If you enjoyed reading about "PS90 Pretty Fun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
gunnutery
July 1, 2014, 01:56 AM
Glad you like it. I had one on the short list for a while, mainly because my wife can't hold up a rifle and I knew she'd be able to hold a PS90. But when I mentioned it to her she seemed uninterested, she likes pistols.

So I've tabled the idea for now. Which is okay because the drawback for me was diversifying into another caliber. My state also doesn't allow SBR, which would be sweet.

Enjoy!

Welding Rod
July 1, 2014, 03:11 PM
I didn't want to add another cartridge either, as I was down to just a few. But I needed a longer range pistol for one of the club matches I shoot in so I got a FN 5.7 pistol. The accuracy of the pistol and the cartridge impressed me, and since I already became committed to the extra cartridge I decided to bite the bullet and try the carbine.

Our carbine matches are only at 50 yards so it should be plenty competitive there.

I had overlooked this gun for years due to the odd and ugly appearance. I quickly came to realize it actually has quite high cool and fun factors. The wife and I have been forming a stack to move about the house at bed time for goofy fun... Never did that with the Garand!

Corn-Picker
July 1, 2014, 09:13 PM
How's the length of pull? The literature says 13 3/8 inches, which is about the same as the average deer rifle. I find standard deer rifle LOP about an inch too long for my liking, but the ps90 is such a unique design that I'm not sure that's a good comparison (and there's no bolt to work on a semi-auto so that may make the longer LOP OK for me).

I really need to find one of these to try in person. Seems like a fun gun, and the best HD weapon, especially when shared with the wife.

barnbwt
July 1, 2014, 09:49 PM
The main thing that's different the width of the thing is quite a bit more than you'd expect from a deer rifle, or any compact weapon, for that matter. Not bad, really, just different. Makes it seem larger than it really is, in my experience messing with one.

TCB

aarondhgraham
July 1, 2014, 10:50 PM
The best thing that ever happened to the PS90,,,
Was when the TV show "Stargate: Atlantis" started using the shorter P90.

The armorers of the show liked them,,,
Because they eject out of the bottom of the gun,,
That makes framing a shot in a combat scene so much easier.

But seriously folks,,,
They are amazing rifles.

The Magazine attaches on top of the rifle and lies horizontal to the ground,,,
I can't begin to describe how that mechanism feeds cartridges,,,
It holds 40 or 50 rounds of lightning fast ammunition,,,
A person could make the argument that it is,,,
The ideal close-quarters combat gun.

Every year on my Birthday I go to H&H in Oklahoma City,,,
Last year I rented a PS90 and bought 200 rounds of ammunition,,,
What an experience that was to try and conserve the ammo I had bought.

I finally gave up and just blasted away,,,
But the last magazine I did slow fire,,,
It was surprisingly accurate for me.

I like the gun so well that if there was a scenario where I could only have one gun to defend my life with,,,
I've never fired a gun that suited me and how I would wield it,,,
As well as that sci-fi looking thing did.

Alas, I will never pull the trigger on a purchase,,,
At heart, I am truly a cheap old Bas----,,,
I could never afford ample ammo,,,
I wouldn't shoot it much. :(

But there is another route if someone just wants the aesthetics,,,
High Tower Armory (http://www.hightowerarmory.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HTA9022BLK) makes a stock to fit the Ruger 10/22,,,
It's not exact but it's darned close in appearance.

I apologize for the high-jacking of your thread this wee amount,,,
You started talking about my dream firearm,,,
I got a bit carried away.

Aarond

P.S. Congrats on a great purchase. I am in full-blown envy mode.

.

aarondhgraham
July 1, 2014, 10:53 PM
..I knew she'd be able to hold a PS90. But when I mentioned it to her she seemed uninterested, she likes pistols.

Rent a DVD from the 2nd season of the television series, Stargate: Atlantis,,,
Find an episode where the female character Tayla appears,,,
She is a heroine fighter who uses a P90,,,
Once your lady sees it in action,,,
Get your checkbook out. ;)

Aarond

.

barnbwt
July 2, 2014, 12:33 AM
I can't begin to describe how that mechanism feeds cartridges,,,
It holds 40 or 50 rounds of lightning fast ammunition,,,

The double-stack magazine constricts to single stack, then pushes the rounds into a helical channel (the circular plastic piece) where they rotate 90deg as they drop ~1/4". At that point, they are sitting on standard single-feed feed lips.

What's cool about the arrangement, is the helical path is a tremendous mechanical disadvantage toward pushing rounds back up into the magazine, which means the force pushing the feeding round into the lips is actually quite low. That means the rounds feed very easily, which is surprising considering how hard the mags are to load (the one major drawback; I assume PD's have a mag-loader or something to make the job easier)

"Ideal close-quarters combat gun."
That sums it up nicely. The only things I wish were different are;
-A locked breech so reloading spent cases is much easier
-Even less reciprocating mass (goes with a locked breech)
-Even more space efficient; a shorter bolt design would move the breech back a good inch or two, increasing mag capacity even more (though the mags would be getting long)
-Better safety setup; cross-bolts/levers are so pre 2004 :p
-Find a way to swing the magazine into position from either side, rather than sliding it in from the top; far more ergonomic
-Steal a few pages from H&K and get some faceted edges and finer-looking surface textures so it doesn't look like it came from the same plant in China that makes Super Soakers ;)

I have come to find I like the MP7 layout better than the P90 (airsoft experience only, of course :p) since it collapses smaller, but there is certainly something to be said for simplicity. The P90 could probably take more bashing than the H&K, too, since so much of it is merely a shroud for the internals and not integral to function.

TCB

mstreddy
July 2, 2014, 05:25 PM
I really enjoy mine. It fits me just fine. I like the ambidextrous features of it. I agree with Barnbwt on wishing it was locked breech for brass reloading life/ease. I have dies, but haven't loaded for it yet.
It is very well suited to CQB.

4thPointOfContact
July 2, 2014, 06:55 PM
I've had one for a number of years now

Pro -
Sticks out less than having a pistol in most shooting positions.

Ambitiousness as already mentioned

The ability to reach out far beyond normal defensive pistol ranges while still having a lightweight weapon.

Cons -
No built-in M1913 rails (I guess the design was too early for them). A Picatinney rail over the magazine instead of that multi-angled mishmash they came up with would have worked wonders from the very beginning.

No OEM cleaning kit at less than ridiculous prices (the one that fits in the buttstock)

Awkward to equip with a sling (cured with a Urban ERTL though)

Bonus Trivia Time...
Who here knows how to visually identify (by looks alone) a P90 from a PS90 that has been SBR'd and given a cosmetically enhanced safety?

Schwing
July 2, 2014, 07:00 PM
I don't own one but it is on my bucket list. I have shot them a few times and they are a hoot... Kicks about like a .22, is dead accurate and has the weight of a cap gun:)

ClickClickD'oh
July 2, 2014, 07:14 PM
Bonus Trivia Time...
Who here knows how to visually identify (by looks alone) a P90 from a PS90 that has been SBR'd and given a cosmetically enhanced safety?

That's easy. The SBR has super sized etching of someones unfortunately long trust name on the receiver?

:)

4thPointOfContact
July 2, 2014, 07:21 PM
Okay, that too. But I was thinking of how to differentiate them from one another in the manner that FN manufactures them.
So far as I can tell (by looking at ones I know are P90 and ones I know are SBR'd PS90's), there's an obvious cosmetic difference that's easy to spot once it's been pointed out.

4thPointOfContact
July 2, 2014, 07:28 PM
http://www.floridaarmory.com/image.php?type=P&id=181

http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/data/p90b.gif

To the best of my knowledge, one of these is a real P90 and the other is an SBR'd PS90. Given the same color stock, could you tell which is which just from what's here?

barnbwt
July 2, 2014, 07:34 PM
What, the bevel at the barrel of the fore end tip?

TCB

ClickClickD'oh
July 2, 2014, 07:37 PM
Other than it having PS90 stamped on the sight riser?

4thPointOfContact
July 2, 2014, 07:42 PM
What, the bevel at the barrel of the fore end tip?
Bingo.
On every photo where I know that it's a P90 and not an SBR'd PS90; the PS90 has a bevel instead of the right-angle. (At least that's held true so far.)

ClickClickD'oh
July 2, 2014, 07:46 PM
That's the integrated laser mount.

barnbwt
July 2, 2014, 09:51 PM
No built-in M1913 rails (I guess the design was too early for them). A Picatinney rail over the magazine instead of that multi-angled mishmash they came up with would have worked wonders from the very beginning.

You'd be mounting stuff directly on the magazine body in that case (didn't work well for Calico), and way below the line of sight. The magazine does still have to lift up and slide out, which somewhat drives the solution they came up with (I'd have simply put a teensy elevated rail at the very tip, so mags would not have to slide under anything to be seated, but my guess is NATO wanted bigger optics devices than that.) Also, no one put Picatinny anything on stuff in the late 80's. Even video games didn't have railed-guns until like 2008 or so ;) (see also the F2000, XM8, etc. all being anti-modular designs with only two or three configurations dependent upon proprietary add on's)

I agree with Barnbwt on wishing it was locked breech for brass reloading life/ease.
I'm working on it. Gas-operated falling block using somewhat modified PS90 magazines (the helical ramp and feed lip configuration are different, but will be drop/glue-in mods). The prototype will be housed in an MP7 airsoft shell, only 4" longer than the shell at the barrel to reach 16" and 28" with the stock extended. The magazines will rock/slide in from either side over the action, under the sight rail. Based on the longer barrel, better weight distribution, higher capacity, and smaller profile (magazine) I suspect it would surpass the actual MP7 in every way, which isn't all that tall an order to be honest :p

TCB

4thPointOfContact
July 2, 2014, 09:57 PM
That's the integrated laser mount.
The integrated laser mount is a flat plate.


Here, shown on a PS90 frame.
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/1025/laser2fj8.jpg

On a replica p90 frame.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7528&g2_serialNumber=2

And on what I think we can be assured is a real P90 (Again, note the juncture between barrel and frame.)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/P90_Cyprus.jpg

barnbwt
July 2, 2014, 09:59 PM
**DO NOT POINT IN EYES**

LOL :D

TCB


(now stay capitalized, this time, dammit!)

4thPointOfContact
July 2, 2014, 10:05 PM
Funny thing... that gawdawful huge pic of the real P90 is the one that made me say, "Hey, mine doesn't look like that, what's different?"

You'd be mounting stuff directly on the magazine body in that case (didn't work well for Calico), and way below the line of sight....
As a former Calico M900 owner, I'm sooooo well aware of that little failing, lol. But, no, I don't object to the 'housing' that's surrounds where the magazine is inserted, I just wish FN had made it with a flat top (as they more-or-less have done with the 'triple rail' model. As I understand it, the only reason the rail is mounted as high as it is, is because it allows FN to use its sling in the standard mounting slot in the P/PS90. I'd gladly have given up that ability in exchange for being able to mount most optics at (or closer to) the same 'height above cheekpiece' that seems common to the AR platform.
http://www.airstrike.lt/image/cache/data/Guns/Classic%20Army%20FN%20Herstal%20P90%20Triple%20Rail%20Airsoft%20AEG%20Rifle%20%283%29-500x500.jpg

This would be my first choice...
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o41/Fargo02000/Toys/adce6806.jpg

ClickClickD'oh
July 3, 2014, 08:37 AM
The integrated laser mount is a flat plate.

"Mount" as in "laser goes here".

barnbwt
July 5, 2014, 12:05 AM
Just a heads up, fellows; Palmetto State Armory is selling SS197SR for 23$/50. After shipping, it's right at fifty-one cents a round; not too shabby :cool:

TCB

Welding Rod
July 5, 2014, 12:23 AM
Thanks for the tip. Cases of 2000 SS197SR have been selling for about 45 cents per round on gun broker this past week. Including shipping.

A couple cases sold for about 43.5 and 44 cents with shipping included.

barnbwt
July 7, 2014, 12:00 AM
Now, if I could just go and buy the rounds at that price, perhaps. Having to wait days and compete with a bunch of imbeciles directly just to buy a commodity rubs me the wrong way ;). It's like shopping at an outdoor market in Tangier full of shovey, unwashed jerks who keep trying to cut in line :mad:
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000OwzrN348fro/s/750/750/RM-Crowded-Horse-Cart-Market-Marrakesh-Stalls-ARC010.jpg
"Five-point-seven for sale! Free sheep with purchase!"

TCB

Trent
July 7, 2014, 10:04 AM
Why buy 1 when a dozen will do?

http://i.imgur.com/Zyc1s5Wh.jpg

Welding Rod
July 7, 2014, 10:35 PM
Who said I only bought one?

Nice collection there!

Trent
July 7, 2014, 11:37 PM
Who said I only bought one?

Nice collection there!

LOL I was just messing with you. The photo is real, from when I first stocked PS90's in my gun shop back in 2008. Unfortunately, they didn't sell as well as I was hoping, and the change in the US/Euro price point meant that when I *did* sell them I had to sell them at a loss.

I sold 4, and when I moved and closed down the shop in 2009, I kept 8 of them. 2 for me (one tri rail one 2nd gen optics), one for my wife, and one for each of my five kids.

Figured "what the heck", I'd already spent the money. Rather enjoy them than sell them for a loss. Figure they'll come back up in price someday and my kids might need the gas money after I kick them out of the nest. :)

Trent
July 7, 2014, 11:40 PM
Also; they are GREAT shooting guns. Try it out sometime at 200 yards. Put the dot at the top of the black on an NRA 200 yard smallbore target and they drop right in to the middle.

Also gotta aim a smidge left to compensate for spin drift. (I found both of those out after shooting this group) :)

http://i.imgur.com/WMhYNNNh.jpg

That was shot prone, BTW.

They'll definitely get the lead to the right place out to 200.

300 yards is a bit of a stretch though. They start dropping like sputnik somewhere between 200 and 300. :)

4thPointOfContact
July 7, 2014, 11:54 PM
Well, it is designed as a PDW and meant to replace a 9mm pistol or sub-gun for military users. Anyone over 200meters away you're supposed to be running away from, not engaging. Most 9mm subguns top out at around 100-150 meters, so a P/PS90 looks pretty good in comparison.

Welding Rod
July 8, 2014, 12:53 AM
I already shot mine at 200. I wanted to see if I might use it at our next high power event for fun. My results were almost as good as yours. I was having a bit of a time though with the 3.5 MOA red dot, which also happens to be very bright. It is the factory FN / C-Moore sight. I like the sight, just not the hot ticket at 200 where it covers much of the target.

Just for fun, I plan to shoot one at 200 with a 14x scope to see what kind of mechanical accuracy it is capable of.

I am rapidly coming to enjoy shooting the 5.7 simply because it ISN'T reload friendly. I am so tired of loading ammo for the matches I shoot in. With the 5.7 I just shoot factory ammo that I have no intention of reloading. I really like that. When bought by the case it really doesn't seem that expensive when considering I am putting Hornady V-max bullets down range rather than a cheap fmj... And I am saving hours at reloading bench.

I put 450 rounds of SS197SR 5.7 down range in the last 2 weeks or so, no malfunctions and it seems quite accurate both in the PS90 and Five Seven pistol.

Welding Rod
July 13, 2014, 09:44 PM
Palmetto State Armory - $23.99 a box for SS197 in stock now: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/59/category/47/

Shot the PS90 / factory red dot combo in a high power match today. Course was shot on reduced targets (SR1) at 100 yards. Course of fire was 10 rounds slow fire prone, 10 rounds rapid fire prone, 10 rounds rapid fire sitting, and 10 rounds slow fire off hand. All was done without a sling... which is quite uncommon in HP matches, but I couldn't figure a way to really use one to any benefit with the PS design.

I shot a 368-5X / 400. I'll take it. I could have probably done a little better but I have the sight zero'd at 200 yards so I had to hold the dot off (low) which probably cost me some points. I had planned to shoot the PS in the 200 yard Garand event and decided at the last minute to shoot it in the 100 yard bolt action event instead, and shot a Mini 14 I inherited in the Garand event.

Anyhow it was a good time. Due to the ergonomics of the PS, I found I could rest my left elbow on top of my gun belt when shooting off hand which was pretty nice.

Welding Rod
July 13, 2014, 09:47 PM
I fired both my PS90s a day or two ago at 50 yards. Ammo was SS197SR. Gun stocks were sand bagged on a secure bench. One wore the factory FN / C-Moore red dot sight (which I like quite a bit for its auto intensity setting) with the mount screws Loc-Tited, the other had the factory rail (irons zeroed and screws verified for tightness) with a Leupold MKIV 4.5-14x scope, adjusted for no parallax at 50 yards.

My results with the PS90s was essentially the same with both guns. Five shot groups at 50 yards went about 1.4 to 1.75 inches, with an average of about group size of about 1.6", or approximately 3.2 MOA.

I think think this is acceptable for these guns given the short ranges at which there terminal ballistics make them suitable.

I am very confident I am shooting extremely close to the mechanical accuracy capabilities on the guns.

I would like to try some 198 ammo for comparison.

Thought someone might be interested.

gbran
July 13, 2014, 10:44 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/gbran/Bullpup.jpg

Trent
July 13, 2014, 10:53 PM
I fired both my PS90s a day or two ago at 50 yards. Ammo was SS197SR. Gun stocks were sand bagged on a secure bench. One wore the factory FN / C-Moore red dot sight (which I like quite a bit for its auto intensity setting) with the mount screws Loc-Tited, the other had the factory rail (irons zeroed and screws verified for tightness) with a Leupold MKIV 4.5-14x scope, adjusted for no parallax at 50 yards.

My results with the PS90s was essentially the same with both guns. Five shot groups at 50 yards went about 1.4 to 1.75 inches, with an average of about group size of about 1.6", or approximately 3.2 MOA.

I think think this is acceptable for these guns given the short ranges at which there terminal ballistics make them suitable.

I am very confident I am shooting extremely close to the mechanical accuracy capabilities on the guns.

I would like to try some 198 ammo for comparison.

Thought someone might be interested.

Try again with AE. My experience has been that it's slightly more accurate in the PS90.

Last match I shot at 200 yards with the PS90, I held a sub 5" group. Given I was shooting prone without any hope of using a sling or bipod :), I probably induced a little error in to there. Would say that AE is good for sub 2 MOA, at least out to 200 yards.

Trent
July 13, 2014, 10:55 PM
Factory ammo reference groups @ 50 yards (baseline comparisons for my own load development)

http://i.imgur.com/NVfROdPh.jpg?1

Another 197SR session where the ammo just didn't group for crap.

http://i.imgur.com/mQXVgHUh.jpg?1

AE has some higher velocity spread than 197SR but that really doesn't seem to affect things until > 200 yds; then they begin stringing out pretty good.

Overall AE will cluster much tighter than 197SR. I'm pretty sure this is partly due to FN *gluing* the frigging 197SR 40 grain projectiles in place, whereas AE doesn't.

Some of the velocity spread of AE is due to bullet setback on chambering, BTW. Since the projectiles aren't glued in to place and the nose is somewhat rounder than 197, I *have* had the occasional jam where bullets are set back severely. I'm pretty sure that they get set back to varying degrees when they do NOT jam, too, based on very inconsistent chrono readings during testing. :)

(I don't like AE but you can't argue with the way it shoots, when it actually DOES shoot, and doesn't jam the action up.)

Welding Rod
July 13, 2014, 11:05 PM
Thanks for the tip Trent, I'll try the AE.

Trent
July 13, 2014, 11:14 PM
If they used a pointier tip bullet for that AE ammo it'd be just about perfect. You'll see when you get it; the noses are pretty rounded, for FMJ. Not "pinprick" pointy like the 197SR Hornady v-max pills.

I'm still trying to find the 'penultimate' accuracy handload, trials will continue this fall with some new powders. :)

Welding Rod
July 27, 2014, 07:18 PM
These things are really easy to shoot. I won our carbine match today at 50 yards. Course of fire was 5 rounds standing, 5 kneeling, reload, 10 prone. All in 60 seconds total. Perform that sequence twice. Score was 193-10V / 200.

Prone is super easy as the front fore grip rests on the left hand, and the hand on the ground. Hard to get more stable that that... Even if you had a sling. Easy to shoot kneeling and standing too.

I love the FN/Cmore STS red dot, which evidently is going out of production. The field of view is incredible and the auto adjust intensity always seems right.


Edit: whoops, just realized I already reported the part below in a previous post...

I also had the high score in our 100 yard bolt action side match 2 weeks ago with the PS90, which was shot in a regular high power format, just on a short course and only 10 rounds for the slow prone. Did a 368-5X / 400. There was only 5 shooters in that event though and everyone just completed the 50 round 200 yard Garand main event so everyone's offhand arm was tired... Except mine... I shot a Mini 14 which of corse didn't count for record score but it was fun and had the side benefit of keeping my arm fresh. Of course the PS90 didn't count for record score either, but again it was quite fun to shoot and it holds its own.

barnbwt
July 27, 2014, 08:49 PM
Man, I really need to get one of these...stupid fuel pump :mad:. Seeing as these guns are apparently quite suited to competition, it begs the question; why don't we see more of them?

TCB

If you enjoyed reading about "PS90 Pretty Fun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!