All this 22-250 talk


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ultratec1
July 12, 2014, 03:17 PM
Has got me thinking..... I have a Remington 700 VTR in 22-250 but it comes with a 1:14 twist and the factory muzzle break built in. I am wanting to swap the barrel for a 26" heavy barrel with a faster twist. Say 1:10.

Can this be done and also what brand of barrel does everyone recommend?

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osprey176
July 12, 2014, 03:36 PM
Sure you can rebarrel,but the slower twist used with the 22/250 by the factories is a good comprise for the velocity the round reaches. The faster twists at those speeds can cause light bullets blowing up before reaching the target.What weight bullets are you wanting to use,and for what purpose? More importantly,how does the rifle shoot? If it's accurate,I would think long and hard before making changes.If you don't like the brake,it's easy enough to have it removed and recrown your muzzle.

MachIVshooter
July 12, 2014, 03:49 PM
As Osprey said, you don't generally want a fast twist on the really high velocity varmint rifles, which will be pushing lighter bullets at blistering velocities. The reason so many like a fast twist in .223 (specifically the AR) is to stabilize heavy-for-caliber bullets that perform well for long range target shooting. It works out OK with the .223 because the round cannot push the lighter bullets fast enough to make them come apart due to centrifugal force. But the .22-250, .22 WSSM, .22 CHeetah, .220 Swift, etc. can move these 40-55 grain bullets quite a lot faster, and the RPMs they'd be spinning out of a 1:9 barrel may create forces that are beyond the tensile strength of the jacket.

1:12 or 1:14 is plenty to stabilize the 40-60 grain bullets generally used for varmint hunting with the super-fast .22 centerfires.

ultratec1
July 12, 2014, 04:15 PM
The barrel has a 1:14 which does not allow me to shoot 55gr or heavier bullets. To say that I am unhappy with the performance of this rifle is an under statement. It shoots a 1.5" group at 100yrds with 45gr factory ammo and also 50 gr handloads that I have ran mulitple work ups for. I wish the gun shot better, then i wouldnt be contemplating rebarreling.

BruceB
July 12, 2014, 04:43 PM
Whatever is making your rifle shoot unsatisfactory groups with 55-grain bullets, it is NOT the twist rate in the barrel.

My CZ550 .22-250 has the same 1-turn-in- 14" twist, and it routinely fires 100-yard five-round groups UNDER 1/2" for five rounds..... consecutively, meaning it's a true-sub-half-minute rifle with those 55-grain bullets. This also makes it the most accurate rifle I've ever owned, which covers a lot of ground, and a lot of years.

The 14" twist rate would not be standard, if the loads didn't perform well in such barrels. There are many, many thousands of .22-250s (and Swifts) out there with that twist rate, and they work very well indeed with 55-grain bullets.

I suspect some other cause for your rifle's below-par performance.

R.W.Dale
July 12, 2014, 05:31 PM
Savage makes the rifle for which you seek

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12VLPDBM

Fredo0621
July 12, 2014, 06:02 PM
I like Bartlein but there are plenty of good ones. I would got with a 1 in 8 twist though over a 1 in 10. With the 1-8 you can shoot anything up to 80 gr and maybe even 90s. A 80 gr AMAX at 3200+ would be a killer 1000 yard round.

murf
July 12, 2014, 06:10 PM
yup, 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards sucks.

probably not the barrel, though: check the crown for dings, make sure the action screws aren't too tight, check the stock for side pressure on the barrel and action, check that the bolt handle doesn't hit the stock, make sure the action screw holes in the stock are not putting a side load on the screws, etc.

lot of things you can check for free before dropping a load of change on a new barrel.

murf

p.s. check the scope for binding. that aluminum tube will bend like a banana in crooked steel scope rings.

R.W.Dale
July 12, 2014, 06:11 PM
I would also add to clean THOROUGHLY for copper fouling.

And to try a different scope

jmorris
July 12, 2014, 06:15 PM
It works out OK with the .223 because the round cannot push the lighter bullets fast enough to make them come apart due to centrifugal force.

This is not entirely correct. I know for a fact that some Speer JHP's are not strong enough to stay together out of a 1-7 twist .223.

murf
July 12, 2014, 06:36 PM
the sierra blitz bullet will have the same problem. when shot out of a 220 swift at 3900fps they turn to dust half way to the 100 yard butt. a one in seven twist on a 223 would probably do the same thing.

murf

250 Savage
July 12, 2014, 06:51 PM
I have the VTR in 308 and I really saw the biggest improvement in accuracy when I put a shim under the front of the receiver to free float the barrel. I just used a couple pieces of credit card taped together as a temp measure, but it cut down my groups from 3" at 100 to just over an inch (some of that is me I'm sure) Might be worth while to try and see if it helps.

ultratec1
July 12, 2014, 10:56 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice. Murf I will certainly check everything that you mentioned. Hopefully one of them is the problem. The scope is new Vortex Viper 6.5-20. I hope that nothing is wrong with that thing, I have had great luck with them in the past

R.W.Dale
July 12, 2014, 11:10 PM
Good scopes go bad too. Don't sell what may be a great rifle short on the assumption that they don't.

murf
July 12, 2014, 11:27 PM
ultratec1,

suggest you first take r.w.dales advise and clean your barrel down to the bare metal. a lot of people think that 20 passes with a hoppe-soaked bore brush will get out all the copper fouling in their barrels. wrong!

if the barrel is really copper fouled (and the 22-350 is very good at fouling a bore), it is going to take a lot of time and a good solvent, or bore paste, to get all the copper out.

murf

SSGT PRIDE
July 12, 2014, 11:35 PM
Bought a stock VTR in 22.250 and it sucked.....Bought aftermarket stock for freefloat and get single hole groups at 100 now...did the same with a Remington 700 SPS heavy barrel varmint....Got rid of the crappy tupperware stock and went from 1.5 inch groups to 1/4 inch groups...Even the cheapo CHOATE Varmint or Ultimate sniper stocks allow a total free float and will let the rifle blow your mind!

One other thing is dont expect the VTR to shoot tiny groups straight from the factory.....About 400 rounds through mine now and the groups are still shrinking smaller and smaller! Cleaning a lot helps too!

MachIVshooter
July 13, 2014, 01:23 AM
This is not entirely correct. I know for a fact that some Speer JHP's are not strong enough to stay together out of a 1-7 twist .223.

I'm sure some are too thinly jacketed, particularly if one uses Hornet bullets. I've just never had an issue, even with 40 grainers in the 3,400-3,600 FPS range. But I also don't run 1:7 tubes. 1:9 mostly, and my 1:8 is a 12.5" SBR, so not hitting tremendous velocities.

Point remains, though: My 26" .220 swift can move those 40 grain pills at 4,400 FPS, which would be about 400,000 RPM with a 1:8 barrel. They can't take that. Conversely, out of a 5.56mm 1:7 16" AR, they'd leave the muzzle at about 3,200 for an RPM of 330K. Definitely pushing the limits, but many will take it.

redneck2
July 13, 2014, 09:31 AM
Did you get the rifle new? If not, perhaps the previous owner smoked the barrel by shooting too rapidly. Back years ago I had one that I let another guy shoot. He popped off maybe 20 rounds on a hot summer day in rapid fire fashion. Never shot well after that.

I'd take it to a gunsmith and have it bore scoped.

NCsmitty
July 13, 2014, 01:27 PM
As mentioned, copper fouling is often an issue on neglected barrels in HV calibers. A lick and a promise sometimes isn't enough.

Equal loads will create higher pressures in fast twist barrels, that's just the nature of the beast.


NCsmitty

Scot43
July 13, 2014, 08:52 PM
Could it be the fact that the 22-250 Remington is not shooting well because its a Remington with a heavy lawyer proof trigger? That CZ (and I own 5 CZ rifles) has a SST….sweet! By the way…every CZ rifle I have purchased has shot sub MOA groups right out of the box. Only other factory rifles comparable with out of the box accuracy are Savage rifles….go figure. Two important things….good barrel and a good trigger.

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