[sturmruger]

About two weeks ago I sent in my Curio and Relic license to the ATF. I also dropped off the paperwork for my Chief Law Enforcement officer to look over. Today while I was with a customer I received a call from the Chief. I explained that I was busy at the time, but would be happy to call him back. I got really nervous after that, and must have looked like an idiot in front of my customer. I started running through all of the things he could be calling about, and not very many of them were good. Of course I am a 100% law abiding citizen so I didn’t have to worry about that kind of stuff, but it was still kind of unnerving.


I finally got in touch with the Chief, and he explained why he was calling me. He asked if I would be ok with him listing my residence in the 911 system as a firearms collector household. He said that it would be useful if there were ever a burglary. The officers would then know to expect a possible armed burglar. I am sure that are allot of people that would disagree with me, but I told him that it didn’t bother me if he wanted to add the information to my 911 profile.


In most cases I would have said “no” but there are other factors at play here. In the next couple of years I am planning on applying for a few NFA weapons. That application has to be signed by the CLEO. The problem is the CLEO doesn’t have to sign if they don’t want to. I am trying to have the best relationship possible with my Chief so that when I do go in and ask for that signature I will have a decent chance of him approving me.


In the end I don’t think I will end up in the database. My wife and I have gone the wireless route and do not plan on ever having a land line again. I did tell him if they can list my cellular numbers in the database I would be all for it. I realize that this is another form of gun registration, but I guess in the interests of making my CLEO happy I will just have to deal with it.

I am interested to read everyone’s comments, and maybe some suggestions on how you would have handled the discussion with the Chief.

[Unlucky]

You're on file somewhere (like the BATF, for starters), so you may as well have LEOs paying some more attention to your house to discourage break-ins and gun thefts.

[cslinger]

As far as I am concerned one of the biggest advantages to having a C&R is the fact that any theft of your firearms is now a federal crime and in theory might be taken more seriously.

You are already on everybody and anybody's DBASE as it is.

Have a CCW permit....you are on somebody's list.
Have a C&R you are on a few lists.
Ever fill out a yellow form.....somebody still has it.
Ever post on the internet.....well you know.

The point is in order for NOBODY to know that you have guns you must be very very very careful about how you buy, where you buy, whom you buy from, where you shoot and what you say about it.

Chris

[sturmruger]

That was kind of my thought Chris. If I really wanted to be off the radar I would have had to do allot of things differantly then I have. Being off the radar is not something that I worry about very often. Some people get really worked up about the goverment knowing that they have specific guns, but I just can't get all that excited about it.

[George S.]

Sounds like a good deal to me. You started off on the good side of the Chief and if the PD has to respond to a burglary call, they should know that the possibility of the BG being armed will help their safety and be able to safely approach the scene.

Do you have a monitored alarm system?? Having firearms in the house and the house protected by a system is, IMHO, a must-have especially if your collection is going to have some value. Keeping a hard-wired line may be a necessity unless you use a company that provides a wireless-type system. If you have one or intend to get one, make sure you tell the Chief about that too. An alarm company will usually report an entry alarm to the local 911 center so having the PD know about your collection up front is important.

Also consider keeping a up-to-date printed copy of a list and description of all the weapons in your collection in a hiding place along with some pictures. Should a burglar make off with your collection, you will have the pics, descriptionss and serial numbers readily available to provide to the police. Keeping the information solelly on a computer won't help if the BG take the PC too!

I guess I don't see this as a gun registration issue but simply as a citizen who desires to keep his collection out of the hands of criminals and is working with the police department to keep everything as safe as possible.

[sturmruger]

I am working towards the alarm system. Right now my priority is saving up the cash for a good gun safe.

[grimlock]

I don't mind the government knowing that I own guns. What I would mind is if the government had an inventory of my collection. That would be bad.

[c_yeager]

What i find particularly suprising is that the cheif ASKED you for permission. He certainly doesnt NEED your permission to put your name on a list. He sounds like a pretty 'stand up' guy to consider your opinion on the matter.

[Carlos]

When I first started reading this thread, I'm thinking, "***, it's none of the chief's business."

However, your Chief does sound like a stand up kinda guy.

I, too, have little problem with LEOs knowing I have guns in the house. C&R license gives them an inventory of my C&R purchases, when ATF decides to ask.

I wish our CLEO would sign off on a NFA app.

[sturmruger]

Carlos he hasn't signed off on it yet. I am going to try to get to know him a bit more before I ask for the NFA signature.

Edited to add:

So far my impression is he is a good officer. Although he might have called me more because he couldn't find my number listed in the directory then to really ask for my permision. I really don't know for sure, but I like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[general]

Guns? What guns?http://img37.photobucket.com/albums/v113/generalee/Gifs/rocketwhore.gif
If you're listed - maybe they'll take more precautions when dispached to your home for an intruder knowing you are well armed also. He knows this.
http://img37.photobucket.com/albums/v113/generalee/Gifs/colt.gifhttp://img37.photobucket.com/albums/v113/generalee/Gifs/bulleth2.gif

[Carlos]

Me too. Hope it all plays out. I'll all for the fullest cooperation, unless I started to feel something sleazy and my rights starting to erode away.

I must admit, I guess would be quite flattered if the Chief of Police called me.

:)

[artherd]

If you've got a C&R and other things (especially a FFL of any kind, or NFA) you're already on most of the lists.

I am pretty sure your chief was doing two things:

1) Asking politely for something he considered a bit of an imposition, despite the fact that he could have done it himself withought your consent. He may not like that.

2) Checking to see who answered the phone because you (like me) have no land lines.



It's a double edged sword. If TSHTF you just might make it onto the 'houses to avoid' at least for a while :)

PS: get a cellular alarm, wired alarms can be identified (easially) and cut (very easially).

[TheEgg]

When I went to the office to turn in the copy of the C&R app., no one there knew what it was!

I got a 1 hour run around -- they first refused to take it, then (even though they had obviously never seen one before) claimed that I had filled it out wrong, then claimed that the CLEO had to approve and sign it (he does not), got real angry at me when I would not admit that they were right (even though they did not know anything about it), refused to read the ATF instructions that I had, etc.

Terrible experience -- I should have just mailed it in.

[HBK]

Egg, I had a very similar experience. I ended up leaving it there for a signature. I come back a week later and get it back, still unsigned. I asked why no signature and the lady said, "We called ATF and you don't need our signature. So I went ahead and sent it in, but forgot to sign it. :o I just resubmitted it yesterday.

[JeffS]

My interpretation of the events you describe is that your CLEO is anti-gun. Reason being is that 911 records are publically available. Trade industry such as insurance companies, marketing, and lobby groups do pay for these records. This is the kind of exposure you do not want, IMO. Maybe I'm paranoid or maybe I live in CA.

The true test is obtaining the signature for the NFA firearm you want. You will know then.

[sturmruger]

How I interpreted the C&R paperwork was all I needed to do was inform the CLEO that I was applying for a C&R. The paperwork I gave him told him what to do if he thought I was ineligible. It even gave him a special number to call if he thought I was a bad guy. You do not need a signature.

[Don Gwinn]

THat's right. In fact, the usual method is to inform the CLEO in a cover letter that "no response on your part is necessary."

I don't think it was a big deal. The CLEO knows you have them anyway, so the department might as well. People who don't want to be on lists shouldn't have federal licenses. ;)

[sturmruger]

I sent him a cover letter and printed off the BATF C&R online FAQ. When he called me he seemed to be well informed.

[Leatherneck]

Cruffler.com has a form letter to send to the CLEO; it clearly states in the lettter to the chief that no action is required by him

I've always wondered whether that letter was deep-sixed on arrival, or put into some new Leatherneck file at the copshop. :scrutiny:

TC
TFL Survivor

[bigjoegood1]

I'm already recognized as a collector in MD by the state police (can now buy more than 1 regulated firearm a month) and probably in database galore so that cat is already out of the bag :D . Even if I can't afford to buy more that one a month right now because we are saving for our first house, I will be buying later. I am getting my C&R now for the same reason, cuz I can!

[El Rojo]

Yeah I am already screwed too. They have my CCW and my C&R license, so they know I am armed. My theory is if they really want to know about you, they will find out anyway. The key is to not let them realize you are worth them keeping tabs on.

One handy dandy thing I do have that is interesting is a form I filled out for working in a prison that blocks my address information at the DMV. So if I go get a print out to take to a prospective employer, my address does not come up. My guess is if you try and get my info from the DMV, my address does not come up. The little blocker form says that if I ever stop working for the prison I have to inform the DMV so they can free up my info again. I have a feeling I will have a bad case of being senile right around that time! :D