223 - Help explaining these pressure signs


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dsmhero
July 19, 2014, 08:57 PM
This is my first load up of 223 but I am getting some odd pressure signs when I believe there shouldn't be.

Data:
RRA LAR-15
16" barrel
Cheap 224 55grain fmj bullets I bought at a gunshow
COAL - 2.235
Accurate 2230
6 1/2 primers
Once shot mil brass

So I did a load up of 22grains - 24grains by 0.5grain increments. Outside temp was 85F.

At 23grains I had one pierced primer out of 10 rounds.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/guitarhero14/Mobile%20Uploads/20140719_152958_zpsjnuqog3o.jpg (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/guitarhero14/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140719_152958_zpsjnuqog3o.jpg.html)

Back row is 23.5 and front is 24 grains
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/guitarhero14/Mobile%20Uploads/20140719_174227_zpsecwccosy.jpg (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/guitarhero14/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140719_174227_zpsecwccosy.jpg.html)

I was getting extractor marks at 23.5
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/guitarhero14/Mobile%20Uploads/20140719_174400_zpsk98l5nl0.jpg (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/guitarhero14/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140719_174400_zpsk98l5nl0.jpg.html)

Here is the chrono data:
22grains - Average 2686 fps with sd 70 fps
22.5 grains - Average 2708 fps with sd 57 fps
23 grains - Average 2760 fps with sd 41 fps
23.5 grains - Average 2779 fps with sd 54 fps
24 grains - Average 2872 fps with sd 44 fps

Any idea on what is going on and if I am actually pushing this charge too far?

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dsmhero
July 19, 2014, 09:56 PM
Problem solved. 6 1/2 primers are NOT to be used with high pressure cartridges.

solvability
July 19, 2014, 09:59 PM
As you say:

Warning:
Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.


This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.

dsmhero
July 19, 2014, 10:01 PM
Yeah, unfortunately I bought these awhile ago when components were hard to find, long before I even started to reload for 223. I hate wasting $. Thanks again.

billybob44
July 19, 2014, 11:08 PM
Yeah, unfortunately I bought these awhile ago when components were hard to find, long before I even started to reload for 223. I hate wasting $. Thanks again.

Not a waste at all..You are probably shooting/loading a pistol caliber that uses a small primer..

I have used a LOT of Rem. 6 1/2's in .357, .40 S&W, and 9MM loads..Bill.:)

dsmhero
July 19, 2014, 11:27 PM
Have you noticed that you had to change your load when switching to small rifle primer? I am loading for 9mm with 5.0grs of unique.

HighExpert
July 19, 2014, 11:45 PM
I have never had to change because of primers. If you were loading at absolute max you probably should back off .1gr.

dsmhero
July 20, 2014, 12:02 AM
I don't believe I am anywhere close.

COAL 1.160
115gr RN
5.0gr Unique
Average 1060 fps
SD: 26 fps

ArchAngelCD
July 20, 2014, 01:30 AM
I have no idea why Remington is still making their 6 1/2 primers. They are only rated for extremely low pressure rifle rounds like the 22 Hornet. I don't think they even burn as hot as a small pistol magnum primer. I have 400 I bought by accident years ago before I knew a Remington Small rifle primer couldn't really be used in rifle ammo!

I don't think and change in powder charge is necessary when using the 6 1/2 primers in place of SPP as long as you aren't bumping right up against the high limits of the powder charge. In that case you should always drop back and work up even when changing one brand of SPP for another.

Walkalong
July 21, 2014, 08:17 PM
The primer problem is easily fixed by switching to a better suited primer. What concerns me is where the extractor had such a hard time pulling the case out of the chamber.

gahunter12
July 21, 2014, 08:42 PM
Looks like you have solved your primer issue. I just looked back at my notes from last year using AA2230. I really liked my results I got from AA2230. Looks like you are right in mark with my results. I also noted that I had a ejecter mark on a few of my case heads and pretty flat primers @ 24gr. I settled on 23gr of AA2230/ 55gr FMJ/ CCI #41 primers with Avg Velocity of 2780fps, Extreme Spread= 12fps, and Standard Dev=6.

mstreddy
July 22, 2014, 12:08 PM
OP, on loading the 6 1/2 primers in pistols. I too ended up with a bunch of them and have been using them in my pistol loads. 9, 40, and 38 special. I have had zero issues.

vongh
July 22, 2014, 12:22 PM
Did you shoot any steel laquered cases before you shot those reloads? I had the same problem with hard extracts and failure to extracts on a mini-14. I had to scrub the heck out of my chamber and switch to only brass. I have'nt had any problems since.

spitballer
July 23, 2014, 06:01 PM
Possiblly the OAL of 2.235". Isn't it normal to load the 55gr FMJ's to around 2.260 or so? Are you crimping on the cannelure? Normally seating depth isn't a big deal unless you're running a max load, but I'm not familiar with the powder you've described.

ArchAngelCD
July 23, 2014, 06:47 PM
Possiblly the OAL of 2.235". Isn't it normal to load the 55gr FMJ's to around 2.260 or so? Are you crimping on the cannelure? Normally seating depth isn't a big deal unless you're running a max load, but I'm not familiar with the powder you've described.
You do realize how very little the difference between those two, right? 25 thousandths of an inch when your COAL is well over 2" is not going to raise the pressures enough to pierce primers. 2 tenths of an inch might and I mean might but not 25/1000 of an inch.

rcmodel
July 23, 2014, 11:36 PM
There is nothing to explain.

Except he was using Remington 6 1/2 primers that the warning on every box says Not To Use in .223 and other high-pressure calibers.

rc

ArchAngelCD
July 23, 2014, 11:44 PM
There is nothing to explain.

Except he was using Remington 6 1/2 primers that the warning on every box says Not To Use in .223 and other high-pressure calibers.

rc
Ding Ding, that post rings the bell just like Post #2.

spitballer
July 24, 2014, 11:28 AM
You do realize how very little the difference between those two, right? 25 thousandths of an inch when your COAL is well over 2" is not going to raise the pressures enough to pierce primers. 2 tenths of an inch might and I mean might but not 25/1000 of an inch.
Right, normally not a big deal.

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