Tuner, help!!!


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1911WB
April 8, 2004, 05:04 PM
This isn't exactly a 1911 problem, but here it is. I've got a Star Super B 9mm P which is like a cross between a 1911 and a Browning HP- barrel like an HP, no grip safety, external extractor. Anyway, the pistol operates well except for a lot of FTE's. I started shooting it with Rem & Win factory 115 grain ball loads & usually after the second round fired the empty case would be still in or partially out of the chamber. I took the extractor out & cleaned it & its slot. Then I went out this morning with some reloads- 115 FMJ with 5 grns Bullseye, CCI SP primer. Had the same problem with FTE's. I did learn one thing- in any of the 3 mags I used if I only loaded 3 rounds, no problem. Anymore than 3, I experienced FTE's (fired case still in or partially out of the chamber) after firing the first or second rounds. Fired cases were not buldged nor did they have any unusual markings. Does this sound like a weak mag spring problem to you? If not that, what else?
:cuss:

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1911Tuner
April 8, 2004, 05:12 PM
AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....*thud* Owww...Arrghh...Groannnn..
I gotta get me a parachute.:cuss:

Sounds like a weak extractor spring or the extractor hook itself is worn.
Maybe a broken spring. Weak mag springs generally cause feeding
problems...usually on the last round.

Check the chamber for tool marks or burrs. Clean it and look into the
chamber with a flashlight, and pay close attention to the space just
behind the shoulder. A rough or worn reamer sometimes leaves a
shallow groove there, and the case can expand into that groove and
hang the case up. Two or three thousandths of an inch in case length
can make a difference, which is why it won't happen every time.

Luck to ya, buddy! It's likely the extractor or the spring.

Tuner

Jim K
April 8, 2004, 08:33 PM
Hi, 1911WB and Tuner,

The extractor and spring is a possibility, as is a rough chamber, but neither explains why three rounds in the mag will work OK.

I think this may have to do with the position of the top round in the magazine. If the extracted round hits that before it gets to the ejector, then you can have failures to eject. This type of thing sometimes happens due to the fact that the 9mm P has a tapered case, so the position of the rounds changes a bit as the column becomes an arc.

I would try a couple of different kinds of ammo, including plain old ball, and also check the feed lips and follower angle on the magazines.

Jim

1911Tuner
April 8, 2004, 08:44 PM
Good point Jim...I didn't think of that.


An easy test to see if that's it is to load one round in a magazine and fire it.
Repeat until the failure to extract shows up. If it does, it's what Jim said. If it extracts and ejects okay, it's one of the others.

Luck!

Tuner

1911WB
April 9, 2004, 11:09 PM
Thanks much , Tuner and Jim. A lot of good food for thought that I'll give a try. Also going to get a new recoil spring which can't hurt. :)

Dave Sample
April 11, 2004, 02:07 PM
You have a pistol that was made to shoot machine gun ammo. I have had a dozen or more of these type guns and have two here now. I have a Modelo Super B and a BK which is a Commander Size Crunchenticker that I picked up for my son-in-law for an off duty carry gun if he makes deputy sheriff. The magazines in the big Stars (7/8th the size of a 1911) are made so that they will shoot 38 Largos (38Super) also, so that they tend to be picky about the short length of the 9mm cartridge. I think you need to replace the magazine springs and clean the chamber and get some hot ammo and if you are loading it yourself, seat the bullets out as long as you can. Good Luck. My Super Modelo B is going to be changed into a 38 Super very soon as I just found two more extra magazines for it. It will run 100% when I get done with it. The AS Model is the Star 38 Largo.

1911WB
April 11, 2004, 08:53 PM
Dave- thanks for the reply. Your conversion project is very interesting. Do u ream the 9mm P barrel to .38 Super or do u have a source for a .38 Super barrel? What else is involved with the conversion? BTW I know Wolff makes recoil springs for the Super B, but do u have a source for mag and extractor springs? :confused:

Dave Sample
April 14, 2004, 03:39 PM
I have converted several of these to 38 Super with a reamer I have owned for years. When you build Custom Guns with Match barrels, it is wise to re-chamber them so that when you are done fitting them and have reduced the length of the barrel hood, you can get the proper head space for the overloaded 38 Supers the Game Guys liked to shoot. I stopped by J&G Sales yesterday and bought a box of American Eagle ( What Else?) +P factory bullets to make sure the Star will handle tham OK. I also ordered a 38 Super/Largo recoil spring from Wolff so I have the correct set up. The Star magazines are used for both calibers ( 380 Magnum/38 Largo/Super and the 38 will shoot the 9's OK but destroys the cases upon ejection. The 9mm is a tapered case so that the reamer works great to make the chamber deeper and straight-walled. This reamer also lets the case headspace like a 45 ACP which adds to the accuracy. It is about a 30 mimute job for a competent pistolsmith to convert these very fine guns from 9mm to 38 Super. I think you can get springs from other suppliers , but Walt does not offer them. I have never needed one except for a caliber switch. These are wonderful pistols and are light years ahead of Colt's design. They were built a long time ago when people did a good job of work. Let me know if I can be of any further help to you.

Dave Sample
April 16, 2004, 05:48 PM
http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/1874536/51106917.jpg

Conversion Completed.

http://pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/1874536/51106620.jpg

bountyhunter
April 20, 2004, 12:36 PM
I did learn one thing- in any of the 3 mags I used if I only loaded 3 rounds, no problem. Anymore than 3, I experienced FTE's (fired case still in or partially out of the chamber) after firing the first or second rounds. Fired cases were not buldged nor did they have any unusual markings. Does this sound like a weak mag spring problem to you? HMMMM... usually a weak mag spring problem gets WORSE when there are fewer rounds in the mag because the weak spring is nearly fully extended and has no push left. The "tapered case" feed problem with 9mm also usually gets much worse when the mag is full and better as it empties. Also, the tapered round thing usually shows up as feed ramp nosedive jams because the top round has no upward lift on it's front end.

I wonder if it's possible the extracted case is running into the next round on top of the stack as it tries to get out? narrowing the feed lips a touch might stop that. I'm thinking if there is an "interference fit" between the extracting case and the next round on top, as the mag spring gets more extended, the spent case will extract better because it can push down the top round enough to get by. If so, a stiffer mag spring will make it jam worse.

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